Before I dive in, how's the FG PFS community?

[Talyn]

Coming back to RPGs after a 22 year break. :) I've owned the Pathfinder core book for well over a year, possibly 2 years but it hasn't been until this April that I got to actually play my first real life game at a local PFS session. Due to my job, I've only been able to play 3 times since then (although the GM didn't report the second one so even though we all have our chronicle sheets, nothing was added to our accounts and it sounds like nothing can be done about it).

However... every single one of the local PFS players are Metagaming Powergaming Munchkin Murder Hobos. That's fine if that's what you're into, but I'm totally not into it. 3 sessions in 3 months and honestly I was kinda relieved last week when I had the day off work and was available but they weren't running a Tier 1 session. Because I haven't been having any fun.

Every time I listen to an RPG podcast, if they mention PFS, immediately they tell stories similar to mine with all the Munchkin Murder Hobos.

I've been debating signing up for a PFS here on Fantasy Grounds (if I ever find a Tier 1 on a day off, which hasn't happened yet) but same thing, I'm afraid of having a session where I'm not having fun because of that. So I'm asking, generally speaking what type of players have you all encountered setting up games here on the FG forums, etc.? Or is PFS pretty much Munchkin Murder Hobo Society no matter what and I'm just not a fit for it? I'm fine with that too, there are a lot of RPGs out there.

[JerryRig]

Many players here in PFS are power builders rather then style builders or RP builders. There's 1 opinion but that's why I play one off's or non-society pathfinder. Far more RP's and players for fun in non PFS gaming. Good luck!!

[Blackfoot]

I have to disagree with JerryRig.. and I haven't actually seen him in many/any PFS games... so there's that.

I've met a lot of nice folks through PFS play here on FG... PFS isn't the same as campaign play to be sure.. but it is a great way to connect with the community and meet players whose play style is similar to your own. Over the last 5 or so years I've met very few who I've had serious issue with their play style/power gamey-ness. There is a focus on teamwork and the group mission success... I'm not sure that's 'power gaming'... most of the players seem to take the time to build characters rather than 'the ultimate build'. I'm playing in a number of long running campaigns at this point and nearly all of them are with players I've met through PFS.

It's not for everyone perhaps.. but it does make for an excellent introduction to a community very nice folks.

[Blackfoot]

One other note... the PFS community isn't huge, it is a fairly tight-knit group with folks coming and going as their schedules allow. They are not generally 'kids' most of them are pretty mature and intelligent, making use of PFS to fit a certain type of gaming where game play is more or less regular.. but they are not necessarily required to be there 'every week'.

[viresanimi]

Rpg's are great. Not just Pathfinder society, and I would encourage you to try other things, if the opportunity arises. People here are fantastic to play with. Now, I haven't done it much with the people here, due to a health condition. I mostly play with a small group of friends, whom are are have been scattered with time. However, people here are helpful and nice. So yes, if the chance to jump into something arises, give it a shot.

Welcome

Vires Animi

[cmdisc]

Well I'm going to have to chime in now and second what Blackfoot posted.

In all honesty I haven't had any contact (that I can recall) with either JerryRig or viresanimi, so I can't say one way or the other about what their experiences have been.

However, I HAVE played pretty regularly with Blackfoot. He and I and several others have been both players here as well as GMs for several years now and we've enjoyed the various people who pop in and out of games as their schedules allow. Some are pretty regular. Some are new. Some old hats stop in from time to time but are otherwise heavily involved in their private groups or off cheating on us with that harlot called 5E. :p

As Blackfoot mentioned, most of us are mature gamers (I think we range in age from about 30 to 50-something) and although we like to build effective builds, I would rarely call anything Munchkin. We tend to avoid that and are willing to let ourselves get painted into a corner by RPing rather than metagame.

"Yeah, I probably wouldn't have had that spell buff on yet, so I'll have to spend the 1st round of combat casting it."
or
"I didn't bring my weapons along because we were just going to the theatre to catch a show. Who goes to those things armed?"

Although I DO have to say that occasionally you get that one character that says "I pull out my longspear", leaving you wondering where exactly he had been storing that thing. :confused:

As for the structure of PFS, I find I really enjoy it. I don't have time to commit to a weekly group. So this structure of one-shot adventures allows me to bring my character(s) to a table of fellow players as my schedule allows. Every session gives me a chance to catch up with old friends or to meet new ones and to progress my character along in level and loot. And if you find there are certain players or GMs that you particularly like (or particularly don't), you can keep an eye out for them to make sure to catch (or avoid) whatever sessions they are running in.

So I'd say give it a try and see how things go. It costs you nothing to play, other than the FG license and you can always try something else if you find it's not to your taste.

[JerryRig]

I have to disagree with JerryRig.. and I haven't actually seen him in many/any PFS games... so there's that.

I've been in 2 of your games Blackfoot ...just under different name :bandit: But it was over 2 years ago that I was in the back to back ones you ran. I played under Skellan in like his very first game he ran (he did awesome as DM) and one other game after that somewhere with him. More recently I've played with Holognome during 2 different FGCON's and someone else I don't recall. My experience has been very different then yours and that's ok with me. I don't see you correcting positive feedback on games when you know there were problems in them! But you harp on mine for me sharing my experience.

Appreciate your opinion (not really but hey I'm playing Minnesota nice) of my feedback and your attempt to discredit it.

Seems some players perspectives are rather different then from those who DM the PFS games, and you behave as if your surprised you don't learn about that from people who want to fall under your DM'n games in the future. Most of the reason I play incognito if I join a PFS game on FG ...so a DM's opinion of my persona in forums doesn't travel with their game management. It has in the past :mad:

My chats with different players post PFS games has been a bit on those players who power builds and ruins it for the rest of us. Not asking if this is anyone elses experience ...its been mine and the experience of others I have spoken with who have been in PFS games (both here and non-FG games). Giving me negative reputation for answering someones question honestly with my experience is you taking my experience with the FG PFS personal and not objectively as it was asked for by the poster.

[JerryRig]

Well I'm going to have to chime in now and second what Blackfoot posted.

In all honesty I haven't had any contact (that I can recall) with either JerryRig or viresanimi, so I can't say one way or the other about what their experiences have been.

well said ... BUT why bring us (JerryRig or viresanimi) up in your opinion of the FG PFS? He asked what yours was didn't he? Let me re-read maybe i missed him asking what others experiences with PFS community were and of their opinions of others providing feedback. Hmmm ...nope ....just feedback on PFS community games ...not the forum.

This is why people don't share their honest opinions unless under aliases. If I played here under just one alias (JerryRig) and saw what you both just did to our posts to make them look like they were not fair opinions ....I wouldn't post either as you have thus far targeted people that do not agree with your perspective or experience. If it happens in the forums ...whats to stop that from carrying over into the rest of your gaming one would ask. and thus you shut down this guy from getting honest feedback. Is that what you want to happen or did you not see this result?

Anyhow ...this is a small snapshot of who you'll be playing with/under in the FG PFS community.

[Talyn]

Just to be fair, there's nothing wrong with the Munchkin Murder Hobo as a playstyle; it's a valid playstyle for a lot of people just like anything else. It just happens to be a total turnoff to me. I just want to play the game and have fun not have the game grind to a halt while each player takes 10 minutes to do some math and roll dice while they kill everything that moves whether there was a reason to or not, and talk about their uber-builds that lets them fly and jump 50' in the air to one-shot kill a diety and... ::snore:: If I wanted to play Diablo with Dice I'd just skip the dice and play Diablo and get a whole lot more accomplished in 4 hours.

Everyone at my local PFS has been cool enough. No one's really behaved like a **** or anything. I hope I didn't leave that impression in my original post? I just don't enjoy their particular style of play. We're not supposed to tell anyone they're having fun wrong, but I guess they're having MY fun wrong? :) Either way, I'm both the new guy at the tables and the odd man out playstyle-wise so... it's either make a Murder Hobo character (which I did for no other reason than to at least be able to play) or just drop PFS altogether. Which is what brought me to buy Fantasy Grounds a month or so ago as a potential third option.

[Blackfoot]

Well... for example.. I personally play a lot of Gnomes because they are all powerful damage dealing super monster characters... oh wait.. no that's not it.. it's cuz Paizo actually came up with a cool background for them. As I said, there are players who focus on their 'build' and pretty much being able to do it all by themselves... and those who do not.. generally most of the characters seem to be about character in the PFS games I play/run for the most part.

Currently a group of us are running a long series of games as part of the 'Core Campaign' which takes out a lot of the extra stuff and generally simplifies the rules a fair bit. I'd suggest joining in on a session and judging for yourself what the atmosphere is like. Also.. I might suggest NOT joining in for the first time during FGCon (the next one is in October).. you are more likely to run into games on a tight schedule at that time.. they tend to have kinda a little sort of atmosphere. There are a lot of games running during that weekend.. but since games run back to back.. everyone is tired and more focused on getting through the missions to some extent.

[cmdisc]

well said ... BUT why bring us (JerryRig or viresanimi) up in your opinion of the FG PFS? He asked what yours was didn't he?

When the OP posted his question, I felt I had some positive insight to offer as to my experiences. In reading yours and viresanimi's posts, it appeared that the two of you had faced some negative experiences. I didn't know what those were because I wasn't recognizing either of your screen names. Hence why I offered my original statement before then contrasting your negative with my positive. It is a common writing tool. Something akin to "Unlike others on here who seemed to not like X, I have found it to be quite enjoyable..."


This is why people don't share their honest opinions unless under aliases. If I played here under just one alias (JerryRig) and saw what you both just did to our posts to make them look like they were not fair opinions....

I am not sure why you are responding in a manner where you feel like you are being attacked. Where are you getting this idea that anyone is trying to make your opinions appear as if they aren't fair? I can only assume there is some kind of miscommunication here. No one is attacking anyone. What Blackfoot and I have posted was sincere. We don't recognize your screen name. We don't know what your experiences are. So we can't say ANYTHING about your opinion. That was the point. We can't say "Yeah, JerryRig has a valid point because of X" or "Ah JerryRig is just upset because he got called on Y".

Blackfoot's and my posts are doing the exact opposite of judging. We are not making a judgment of any kind.

So I can only assume you misread something.

[cmdisc]

Just to be fair, there's nothing wrong with the Munchkin Murder Hobo as a playstyle; it's a valid playstyle for a lot of people just like anything else. It just happens to be a total turnoff to me.

Well said. It is also a turnoff for many of us here in the FG PFS community.

Hopefully some of the comments here haven't dissuaded you from giving things a try. Are there occasional conflicts? Of course. Do GMs miss a rule here or there on occassion? Yup, just like everywhere else. But for the most part things run pretty smoothly. The GMs are fair-minded folks and people are pretty nice here. You get your regulars, your lurkers, and your occasional gamers. But how you feel about the community is something you'll have to try for yourself and decide.

:)

[cmdisc]

As an added note, I don't want to speak for a certain GM, but there MIGHT be a session soon for a CORE game running in the 1-2 subtier that you could hop aboard. Take a look at the Echoes of the Overwatched forum below (or above) this thread, click on the Calendar link in the first post, and sign up there. He's already run one table of it at the 4-5 subtier. But if he can get enough interest for a 1-2 run, he might be persuaded to run another session of it.

I'm currently on Hiatus as a GM since I am in the process of moving from Germany to Kansas (my desktop is on a boat currently and I really dislike the idea of trying to run games off my laptop). But once I'm set back up in August, I will be continuing to run a Season 3 CORE theme that we're in the middle of as well as looking for time to offer other CORE and Standard PFS games to the community. So let me know what your character levels are and we can find some scenarios that would match.

[d1wright]

Try out a Pathfinder Society Game on Fantasy Grounds and see how you like it. It is different than tabletop and it is generally an older crowd.

One of the things I like is that you know who's going to be at your table ahead of time and can see what they plan on bringing.

[bigboom]

Talyn, I'll answer your question in two parts: 1) my opinion about PFS as a whole, and 2) my opinion on the FG community specifically.

First a bit of my background so you know where I'm coming from. As a kid, I've always wanted to play tabletop RPGs but never had a chance because I didn't have friends interested in it so my experience with RPGs was limited to computer RPGs. As an adult, work and family leaves my schedule a bit unpredictable and although I have time to play, I (with a couple exceptions) can't commit to the same, consistent time slots each week...which makes it tough for me to join normal campaigns.

About 9 months ago, I stumbled upon FG, which led me to PFS. I found the one-shot nature of PFS scenarios works well for me because of my inconsistent personal schedule. Also, because I was (and still am) a relative newbie to tabletop RPGs, I didn't have strong feelings on a preferred style of play. I started playing PFS within the FG community as well as other online PFS communities (there are no local, in-person PFS games where I live) and I've been having a great time since.

Now, to actually answer your question...



My opinion regarding PFS as a whole

Do people murder hobo? Yes.
Is there min/maxing? Yes.
Is there powergaming and metagaming? Yes. Although in my experience, I'd say the online PFS community (within FG and outside of FG) as a whole is pretty good about discouraging this.
But does EVERYONE do this in EVERY scenario? No, definitely not.

Ultimately, it'll vary based upon your group's players & GM and, to a certain degree, the scenario you're playing.

I've seen some poorly written scenarios where the success conditions actually require the group to be murder hobos...and to the online PFS community's credit, I've heard of multiple groups fail those success conditions because while playing, they decided not to go the murder hobo route. But for every poorly written scenario I've played, I've experienced a dozen fun scenarios.

The same goes for the people I've played with. For every one annoying Metagaming Powergaming Munchkin Murder Hobo player I've encountered online, I've met, say, a half dozen fun and witty players.

As for min/max character builds, I've found this to be the rule rather than the exception. I think this is just the nature of any organized play campaign whether it is PFS or some other ruleset. When hopping into an organized play session, you may not know who you'll team up with and so most people will want their character to be as optimized as possible for the role their character is designed to fulfill. However, the min/maxing isn't always geared towards combat. Some people specialize in optimizing for support, others for a "face" role. And yes, there are also people who forego the min/max optimization to build their character along some kind of theme.

I personally have characters that span all of this. Some are optimized for combat but dumb as dirt. I'll play those when I'm with a group that needs a heavy hitter because, let's face it, almost all scenarios will require some combat. I really enjoy playing my face characters because I get a kick out of circumventing combat with a diplomatic solution or finding some way to ingratiate my team with NPCs. I like playing my support characters because sometimes I like to hang back to throw buffs/debuffs and let the team's primary combatants do the heavy lifting. And some of my less optimized but thematic characters are fun because I have a character concept in mind and he/she grows into that theme as time goes by. However, this is a very personal type of fun that I cultivate in my own imagination because I'm not always playing with the same group of people so others may not have a chance to witness my characters grow into the theme I've envisioned for my character.

Which leads me to my final point about PFS in general, which is depth of RP. The reality is with PFS or any other organized play campaign, you're never going to get the depth of RP as you would with a regular weekly campaign that always includes the same GM and group of players. In a regular campaign, the players and their characters grow together within the world created by the GM. In PFS, the GM has to adhere to the world created by the organized play campaign rules and time is a limiting factor where you generally want to finish up a single scenario in a single session.

So to provide as consistent an experience as possible to tens (hundreds?) of thousands of players all over the planet, there will be limitations on the depth of out-of-combat RP. Some scenarios have been written to be much more RP-oriented with little combat but it's rare. Also, I've seen some GMs manage to add their own flair to a scenario which adds a bit more RP but generally speaking, you can't expect a high degree of in-depth RP given the limitations of organized play.

For me, that's okay due to my personal scheduling limitations. I've had enough balance between RP and combat in my PFS games to provide a satisfying gaming experience for me personally.



My opinion specifically regarding the FG PFS community
The FG PFS community isn't huge so for me there's been a pretty consistent "feel" to the FG PFS games I've played. Outside of FG in other, larger online PFS communities I've encountered more variation where there have been many great games but there have also been not-so-great experiences.

My experience with the FG community has been:

People here are very welcoming to new players and try to be helpful to new players, not condescending.
Metagaming, powergaming, murder hobo rampages are discouraged by the FG community and besides, that mindset goes against the principles of the in-game Pathfinder Society. It's unfortunate your local group hasn't stuck to the spirit of the in-game Pathfinder Society
FG costs money which is a negative for some people but on the other hand, this tends to filter out powergaming murder hobo players since those type of players generally (but not always) aren't will to shell out cash to satisfy their murder hobo fantasies when there are other free virtual tabletops available.
Although the FG community's small size provides for a more consistent (and for me, positive) experience from session to session, the downside is the number of games offered by the limited number of active GMs won't be huge and may not always be in a convenient timeslot for you personally.
FG itself has tons of features and is quite powerful. But because it is so feature rich, FG can also get complicated. The learning curve can be quite steep but I found this to be offset by the helpfulness of the community itself.



I hope my opinion, although long (sorry!), has been helpful.

As others have said, the best way to determine if the FG community is a good fit for you is to jump in and play a game or two with us. Afterall, it costs nothing beyond the FG license and core Pathfinder rulebook, both of which I believe you already have!

Then based on those couple games, you can decide if you'd like to continue with the FG community or play games elsewhere...no harm, no foul!

[JerryRig]

When the OP posted his question, I felt I had some positive insight to offer as to my experiences. In reading yours and viresanimi's posts, it appeared that the two of you had faced some negative experiences. I didn't know what those were because I wasn't recognizing either of your screen names. Hence why I offered my original statement before then contrasting your negative with my positive. It is a common writing tool. Something akin to "Unlike others on here who seemed to not like X, I have found it to be quite enjoyable..."



I am not sure why you are responding in a manner where you feel like you are being attacked. Where are you getting this idea that anyone is trying to make your opinions appear as if they aren't fair? I can only assume there is some kind of miscommunication here. No one is attacking anyone. What Blackfoot and I have posted was sincere. We don't recognize your screen name. We don't know what your experiences are. So we can't say ANYTHING about your opinion. That was the point. We can't say "Yeah, JerryRig has a valid point because of X" or "Ah JerryRig is just upset because he got called on Y".


Because there was no need to reference either of us. He asked for opinions not if you saw anyone ever play here. It was straight up an attack on our playing experience LIKE:

Blackfoots comment "I have to disagree with JerryRig.. and I haven't actually seen him in many/any PFS games... so there's that"

your comment "In all honesty I haven't had any contact (that I can recall) with either JerryRig or viresanimi, so I can't say one way or the other about what their experiences have been."

Why point to us in any way?

What possible reason does our names or playing experience have anything to do with your opinion on the PFS games here? Reflect on it a moment and ask yourself why you had to reference our comments and names to express your opinion? It suggests you want to make a flaw in our opinions. There was no other need to do reference us that I can perceive so why mention us? Just read our comments and share your own. There was a need you both felt to contrast us by name ....which suggests you need to oppose it ....oppose it to challenge, counter, attack the other. Hence why I was annoyed by the point of calling us out and felt it should be pointed out. Maybe next time don't try to be oppositional but rather just share your viewpoint.

[Zacchaeus]

I think the OP has been given sufficient views now; let's not escalate this any more please.

[JerryRig]

How is this an escalation ...two people talking about how to better improve on feedback?

[Victor]

Oh boy o boy, I get to respond with something no one else has said yet.. :)

FG itself is GREAT! PFS, 5e, or whatever. It has a bit of a high learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, it really beats out the others.

My 2 cents on the Community here, and I am one of those old, yet not mature, ones, so I have no reservations about saying what I think, matter of fact, I don't think I can help it. :)

Great bunch of players of all stripes. I started here a couple of years ago. met many many players and am now in 3 PF weekly campaigns with some of them and have very little time for regular PFS sessions.
I believe at the moment the FG forums are a bit slow with new games being posted as compared to 2 years back, but those things go in cycles. When we have enough DMs running games we very rarely seem to fall short of players.

PFS by it's very nature of bringing PCs into games with different DMs and different players means you will run into some games where the party balance is off, even if you preplan your party. In my honest opinion, ( am often disagreed with here..) PFS is a bit too easy, and PF and PFS both break down around level 10 or so. It's hard for the DMs to keep up with PC power. In one (maybe 2) of our campaigns we are voluntarily 'dumbing down' our PCs so the DM does not commit suicide as we march thru the AP.

So to sum up.. Great Program. Great People. Great Game. and some time to find your perfect playmates :)
Vic

[Talyn]

Finally home from training! :)

Hey, thanks so much for everyone's replies and insights. I won't give up on PFS just yet so thank you for that too! :)

[cmdisc]

Finally home from training! :)

Hey, thanks so much for everyone's replies and insights. I won't give up on PFS just yet so thank you for that too! :)

There looks to be a game forming this Friday if you're interested.

[cmdisc]

Oh boy o boy, I get to respond with something no one else has said yet.. :)

FG itself is GREAT! PFS, 5e, or whatever. It has a bit of a high learning curve, but once you get the hang of it, it really beats out the others.

My 2 cents on the Community here, and I am one of those old, yet not mature, ones, so I have no reservations about saying what I think, matter of fact, I don't think I can help it. :)

Great bunch of players of all stripes. I started here a couple of years ago. met many many players and am now in 3 PF weekly campaigns with some of them and have very little time for regular PFS sessions.
I believe at the moment the FG forums are a bit slow with new games being posted as compared to 2 years back, but those things go in cycles. When we have enough DMs running games we very rarely seem to fall short of players.

PFS by it's very nature of bringing PCs into games with different DMs and different players means you will run into some games where the party balance is off, even if you preplan your party. In my honest opinion, ( am often disagreed with here..) PFS is a bit too easy, and PF and PFS both break down around level 10 or so. It's hard for the DMs to keep up with PC power. In one (maybe 2) of our campaigns we are voluntarily 'dumbing down' our PCs so the DM does not commit suicide as we march thru the AP.

So to sum up.. Great Program. Great People. Great Game. and some time to find your perfect playmates :)
Vic

Very well said. And you're only disappointed because I haven't killed one of your characters yet. :p

[hawkwind]

Playing or running PFS on fantasy grounds is a great way of learning about how to use Fantasy grounds and meeting new players and GM's on a neutral ground. I used run loads of PFS games but have taken a break from but not because of the players i encountered they were all great and a pleasure to play with compared with players i have meet running PFS at Cons. I got a bit tired rule system and PFS format because I not keen on the degree of player risk. Players always seem to succeed and rarely get killed or even greatly inconvenienced, saying that it still looks better than DND Adventurers league which suffers from some really badly written adventures

[Talyn]

There looks to be a game forming this Friday if you're interested.

Interested, but unable; I'll be working til Sunday night. Thanks for the heads-up though. :)