Do you make your players map the dungeon?

[Phystus]

I've been thinking about maps a lot recently, as you may have noticed if you read my blog. And it occurs to me that while I know how I use maps, I don't know what other DM's are doing.

So here's my question: do you make the players create a map of the dungeon as they explore it, or do you share your map with them (after masking the unexplored areas, of course)?

Way back in the day, when dinosaurs roamed the earth and we didn't call AD&D "first edition" because it was the only edition that existed, it was normal for the DM to describe the dungeon verbally, and one of the players was tasked with mapping it out on a sheet of graph paper to ensure the party could find their way back out. Many players also looked at it as a way to figure out where the secret doors were (and we all know all the treasure is behind secret doors, right?), so they were sometimes pretty picky about making sure the map was really accurate.

Does anyone still do that, either face to face or in FG? Since I've been using FG I have been masking the dungeon map, putting the character tokens on the map, unmasking what they could see and sharing the map. The back-and-forth of the person mapping and the DM could get tedious, so it's nice to eliminate that, but it also means that the characters aren't at much risk of getting lost, which seems sad to me. Of course, my players have accused me of being bloodthirsty a time or two... ;)

Or is there a third option I'm missing?

Thanks for your thoughts!

~P

[Zacchaeus]

I think you are right, in that the tedium of describing every last detail so that the mapper (who in my case was an artist who drew superb maps) could then produce the definitive map. I, too, simply use the masking/unmasking thing. However if I have drawn the map myself then everything on that map is what the players see, so there's no need for exhaustive descriptions.

For overland or other times when there is the possibility of getting lost (OotA comes to mind here) then I use theatre of the mind, or again one of the maps that I've drawn which doesn't have reference points; such as a maze of twisty passages - there are exits north, south, east and west. :)

Bonus points to anyone who recognizes where that reference comes from :)

[Galach]

I definitely use “Fog of War”, especially if I am using Fantasy Grounds, but even when I am DMing in an “in-person game”, I use small pieces of cloth to cover the areas of the map the players did not explored yet.

Ask players to drawn their own map can be fun, because as in real life, a person can draw it wrong, or get the wrong impression of the area, just to discover later the mistake. But it consumes too much valuable time from the game session, so I had dropped it entirely.

[Xorn]

@Zacchaeus: Zork. God damn that maze, that damn thief always stole some of my **** while I was trying to get out.

For the main topic, I unmask the map as we go. I've been DMing for 32 years and I never enjoyed tediously trying to describe the map to players.

[LordEntrails]

It depends upon the campaign.

With something like LMoP or PotA I just use the existing maps and mask them. There is no chance of them getting lost, even when travelling overland.

Now, with Undermountain, that's a whole new story, I have a total DM map, but I only share small room or room set maps with the characters. They have to map the dungeon so that they know where they are, and how to get where they want and to get out.

[Callum]

Back in the AD&D days, like you, I described the dungeon to the players and they had to make their own map. Then we started using Dungeon Floor Plans (https://duplombdanslevirtuel.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/dungeon-floor-plans-1.pdf) to map things out, and lead figures to show where the PCs were; the players would still draw their own compiled version of the map. With the advent of 3rd Edition, and its greater emphasis on "the grid", we switched to Tact-Tiles (https://ironbombs.wordpress.com/2014/08/22/kickstarter-tact-tiles-reborn/) (and still use those in our occasional face-to-face sessions). In FG, I always prepare and share a players' version of the map, using the mask to hide areas they haven't explored yet. It's one of the ways that FG makes gaming easier, and I don't really miss the old describe-and-map routine. I might use it for a special occasion - if the location warranted it, or just for the "old school" feel - but even then I'd prepare some player maps for encounter areas.

[Trenloe]

Griogre gives a good example here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?19478-Old-School-Mapping

[Phystus]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who has dropped mapping. Callum, thanks for the links. The Tact-Tiles look interesting, but dang, they're expensive.

I really like Griogre's idea, so thank you Trenloe for linking it. I may have to use that one.

I have also considered re-masking areas after the party moves on, just to help make getting lost a possibility. It should ratchet up the player's paranoia level a bit too, which is always a good thing. :D

~P

[damned]

LordEntrails just has "rooms" he shares and unshares.
The players have to keep some sort of map of the whole place...

[Callum]

Callum, thanks for the links. The Tact-Tiles look interesting, but dang, they're expensive.
Yeah, I was lucky enough to buy them the first time round. They are extremely hard-wearing - I've been using mine for ten years now, without any sign of deterioration. You probably only need six tiles for most purposes - I have nine, but often several stay in the box. Four tiles covers a 100' x 100' area, and 20" x 20" on the gaming table.

[LordEntrails]

Here's a sample of some of the maps/rooms I share with the players. The only problem, imo, with this way is that the players always know which way is north. At least I haven't rotated any of the maps yet. I have an overall DM map that that has pins for each room, these link to stories. Inside the story entries I have a link to the map for the area.
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[Xemit]

Started playing AD&D 2nd Edition a very long time ago. At the time I always was a PC, and the usual 'volunteer' to do the mapping. Our DM would describe things to us and I would sketch. Errors were not corrected by the DM until later on when the PC's skills at chart making also improved. Early on the DM would sometime deliberately describe things wrong to introduce errors. However, we were all playing in the same room, so speed was not an issue.

Later on we added miniatures and I had bought these floor and walls mapping sets (don't remember the name now). The floors were metal plates about ten inches square, and the wall segments were with magnet on bottom. Some had doors and other details. With the set (and my graph paper maps), we'd layout the area when encounters were occurring so that we could determine lines of sight, etc.

A few months ago, I got introduced to FG, and decide to try my hand at DMing. Started with LMoP so that we had something pre-made with all functionality already done.

Now that we play remotely, I don't do the map details, but rather PC maps and masking. We could go with sketching on the party order sheet, but that would slow things down too much (although we use it for random encounters sometimes when I don't have a usable map kicking around.

Map masking is working OK except for items in maps that can become mobile/moved. Those should be overhead view tokens of the items so that the DM can move if needed. And even bigger problem, secret rooms! Masking can still show the edges enough to expose undiscovered secrets. Maybe these secret areas could work a little like NPC tokens. The PC map doesn't have secrets drawn at all. The secret room tokens then get visibility turned on when they are discovered, and masking shows the portions that can actually be seen. Chambers with multiple secret doors would need multiple tokens.

[LordEntrails]

I don't think there is an ideal solution for the secret doors etc yet. A couple of possibilities:
- When I create my own player maps, I make sure the "walls" where the secret doors are thick enough that its not too hard to mask without revealing the secret
- - When I use premade maps, I make sure when I reveal a room I don't reveal the "empty" spaces, that way it's not too obvious when I'm keeping a mask on a secret area.
- Checkout one of the extensions, I think it's one of the DOE in the CoreRPG area that lets you do map layers. With that, you can layer room/door tokens over parts of the maps, or even build the maps with tiles and then be able to swap out the secret/revealed parts as you go.