Port 1802 nightmares...

[Cosmo]

Ok, I have given up getting port 1802 open on my system because no matter what Time Warner Cable and I do on their router it just never seems to stick. So I am now using a program called hamachi to get around the issue. While this works great, it is just MORE software I have to install and learn to just play a game...

Now in my dreams I would just like to launch Fantasy Grounds and have people connect to me via a standard set of protocols and not have to worry about all this kind of crap...

I just about went back to using roll20 to avoid the complexity of the set up and support of this product, but with the aid of players who really wanted me to run a game on this software I muscled through the configuration crap and emerged victorious. But come on, why the special ports and such... Find a way to use the standard web ports that are open on all internet connected systems just like roll20 does...



:)

[The Rouse]

Welcome fellow Austinite! One of the DM's I play with sometimes has to use Hamachi from time to time. I can't really tell the difference between that and when we don't use Hamachi.

As far as internet goes, I am with ATT Gigapower and was able to figure out how to configure it through their modem. You might have access to this or to Google Fiber, maybe one of those is a better option for you. I've heard a lot of issues about things like this from people in my neighborhood who are on Time Warner. Good luck on this!

[JohnD]

Not sure why you're blaming FG for your ISPs shortcomings.

[reddogg48801]

The problem for me is that I travel and stay in hotels 44 weeks a year and can't get FG to open in 99% of them. Using normal ports would make my life and my players lives easier as we could use this instead of roll20.

Also, Hi John.

[Andraax]

Many ISPs block incoming connections on port 80 because they don't want you to run your own web server on a personal account. Actually, many ISPs have "running a server" on the list of things that will get them to cancel your account.

[Moon Wizard]

Actually, the requirement for port forwarding is actually a security feature of your router, which is why it has to be configured there.

When you use other software online that doesn't require this configuration, then it's either because it's a fully hosted option ( which practically requires a subscription, the company has all your data and can only support what web browser tech can provide), or the company has to run a matchmaking service to fake out your router security.

We are looking into the latter as part of our rewrite we are working on in the background. However, our current networking library doesn't support this, which is one of the reasons we are rewriting the software. Unfortunately, it's a big rewrite, so we don't have a timeline to announce yet.

I know it doesn't help your situation, but we are listening and working towards that goal.

Regards,
JPG

[midas]

I just about went back to using roll20 to avoid the complexity of the set up and support of this product, but with the aid of players who really wanted me to run a game on this software I muscled through the configuration crap and emerged victorious. But come on, why the special ports and such... Find a way to use the standard web ports that are open on all internet connected systems just like roll20 does...

Keep in mind that the core difference in what you're referring to is that there are *no* ports that are open on all internet connected systems. Roll20 doesn't require setup because everyone is connecting to a hosted solution somewhere else. FantasyGrounds is running on your machine, and everyone is connecting to you. Whether they use port 1802 or any other port (such as a "standard" port like 80) you'd still need ports forwarded on your router to permit that traffic into your machine. Port 1802 is used because it shouldn't conflict with port forwarding users my have for other reasons. For example if I were running a web server and had incoming HTTP traffic (port 80) forwarded to my webserver, then I wouldn't be be able to use FG if it also used port 80 (without changing the port).

You can configure FG (and have your players configure theirs) to use any port you like, but the issue you're running into is that you're the server, not what port it's using.

[damned]

The problem for me is that I travel and stay in hotels 44 weeks a year and can't get FG to open in 99% of them. Using normal ports would make my life and my players lives easier as we could use this instead of roll20.

There are NO ports that will be opened - standard or otherwise - on your router. The only way to build around this is to change teh architecture with which FG works - meaning all players and GMs connect to a FG server that manages the connections. This cant/wont happen with the current build and no idea if it will happen with Unity. There are plenty of games that still do it the way FG does although many/most have gone the way of servers. Servers does add additional cost at FGs end which inevitably is paid by its customers.


Ok, I have given up getting port 1802 open on my system because no matter what Time Warner Cable and I do on their router it just never seems to stick. So I am now using a program called hamachi to get around the issue. While this works great, it is just MORE software I have to install and learn to just play a game...

Now in my dreams I would just like to launch Fantasy Grounds and have people connect to me via a standard set of protocols and not have to worry about all this kind of crap...

I just about went back to using roll20 to avoid the complexity of the set up and support of this product, but with the aid of players who really wanted me to run a game on this software I muscled through the configuration crap and emerged victorious. But come on, why the special ports and such... Find a way to use the standard web ports that are open on all internet connected systems just like roll20 does...

Same here Cosmo. Its got nothing to do with ports but with who is the server. In FG you are the server so your players connect to you. In roll20 they are the server and all the content sits on their servers.

Also Ive sent you an offer to help at least twice.

[ddavison]

Hey Cosmo,

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties getting the port forward set up. Do you happen to have a router and a separate wi-fi router? We have seen cases where people actually had two devices between them and the Internet and they needed to configure the ISP's router to port forward 1802 to the internal router and then configure their internal router to port forward 1802 to their personal computer.

Damned is a very knowledgeable person with regards to setting this up and is one of our moderators here. He can help you or you can try to schedule some time for us to assist you by emailing us at [email protected]

-Doug

[Cosmo]

It has nothing to do about blame, but about using a more standard set of tech that makes the entry into this software much easier. Move away such restrictions and adopt a more fluid method... It can be done, just look at their competitors.

[Cosmo]

Hey Cosmo,

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties getting the port forward set up. Do you happen to have a router and a separate wi-fi router? We have seen cases where people actually had two devices between them and the Internet and they needed to configure the ISP's router to port forward 1802 to the internal router and then configure their internal router to port forward 1802 to their personal computer.

Damned is a very knowledgeable person with regards to setting this up and is one of our moderators here. He can help you or you can try to schedule some time for us to assist you by emailing us at [email protected]

-Doug

I worked with Damned and we got it to work for one game session. The following week it stopped working and after spending 6 hours on the phone with TWC, tier 1, 2 and finally 3 support they decided their modem was bad. I actually drove to their local office and picked up a new modem and tried to set it up again and it failed. FYI, I only use their modem nothing else. If I reset the modem (hard reset to OEM setting) and add the port exception rule again. it would work for a few seconds and then stop. I eventually took Damned's advice and used a VPN program to get this thing to work. My issue with ALL of this is that the "simple" complexity of a port has ended up being a barrier to entry... or as UBER calls it USER FRICTION to using your application. In UBER you enter your credit card (user friction) once and never again until it expires. Imagine having to enter your credit card every time you wanted to use their application.. OR worse -- if you wanted to use UBER you had to load another application and then tell your uber driver to load that application so you can both linkup to share a ride and etc... (Not a perfect example, but good enough)

FG needs to invest in reducing the initial user experience friction. Their competitors have already eliminated this and are quickly working on getting similar contracts and deals on D&D official content. The clock is ticking.

Now, I love the product once you get past this barrier to entry but for some people (most users I expect) this is a very steep climb to just DM a game in their product. Remember, most people use this type of application and want it to disappear and not be the central focus of the game. The technology needs to enable players and DMs to focus on the game, not the technology.

Again, I am not a hater of the product or hating to just hate.. I want them to succeed, but the friction has to be eliminated just like their competitor has done. For now --- FG is winning in the content area.

[computertrucker]

WOW... speak of the devil. Hey all this is my first time in several years logging onto the forum. Yesterday I spent 2 hours on the phone with Verizon Wireless Tech Support. This is why...A few years back my old Samsung Mifi unit died on me and and I ended up purchasing a Jetpack Mifi. I am a truck driver so I am on the road 300 days a year and playing RPGs online is a good way to stay in touch and kill some downtime. Anyway, after I made the switch to a verizon jetpack I was no longer able to connect to Fantasy Grounds. Its honestly the ONLY software I have really ever had issues connecting with. The last campaign I ran I ended up using Roll20.net which I did not really care for. Well after that game died i took about a 1 and a half break from gaming alltogether (other than 40k When at home).

I am finishing up running a 5 month long narrative campaign for 40k this month. and really have the bug to get back into Roleplaying. So I tried connecting on my jetpack and to no avail i cant connect. I even opened up a wifi hotspot on my iphone and still not able to connect. At which point I contacted Verizon. I told them about Port 1802, told them about the software, and went through 4 different levels of Tech Support. Finally I got some help (well sorta, if spending more money is help). The admin tools on my jetpack would make you think you can do port forwarding. Well you cant. And Verizon Wireless only has ONE model that supports Port forwarding. My Iphone 6+ also does not support port forwarding. Like I said my old samsung mifi (also verizon plan) didnt have to port forward it just let me on. So i am going to attempt to order the Jetpack that supports port forwarding and pray that fixes the issue. If not i guess I will be stuck using Roll20...Unfortunately I will not be back home for another 2 to 3 weeks most likely, I am going to wait untill i get closer to that point to make the order. If it works i will let you guys know.

For any of you out there using verizon to attempt to connect here is the model of jetpack that supports port forwarding. If anyone does use it please keep us posted if your able to connect with it.
Verizon jetpack model: AC791L

As i said above its the ONLY model of jetpack that supports it..

[Cosmo]

You did help me Damend and I much appreciate it.

I actually do understand the underlying technology of hosting a server on my end, versus using a "in the cloud" hosted solution and etc like roll20... I just want FG to succeed and find a solution that eliminates the need to depend on an ISP's support team, a ISP router and the users knowledge of those systems.

Hell, maybe include in their software a VPN client that runs in the background or such.. No clue as to what the solution would be but there has to be something...

Anyway, Game on folks and enjoy this product and I also want to thank the community in general for their aid in getting FG setup and running... Our first game went well after everyone got things configured and running.

Good times!

Warren

[Cosmo]

WOW... speak of the devil. Hey all this is my first time in several years logging onto the forum. Yesterday I spent 2 hours on the phone with Verizon Wireless Tech Support. This is why...A few years back my old Samsung Mifi unit died on me and and I ended up purchasing a Jetpack Mifi. I am a truck driver so I am on the road 300 days a year and playing RPGs online is a good way to stay in touch and kill some downtime. Anyway, after I made the switch to a verizon jetpack I was no longer able to connect to Fantasy Grounds. Its honestly the ONLY software I have really ever had issues connecting with. The last campaign I ran I ended up using Roll20.net which I did not really care for. Well after that game died i took about a 1 and a half break from gaming alltogether (other than 40k When at home).

I am finishing up running a 5 month long narrative campaign for 40k this month. and really have the bug to get back into Roleplaying. So I tried connecting on my jetpack and to no avail i cant connect. I even opened up a wifi hotspot on my iphone and still not able to connect. At which point I contacted Verizon. I told them about Port 1802, told them about the software, and went through 4 different levels of Tech Support. Finally I got some help (well sorta, if spending more money is help). The admin tools on my jetpack would make you think you can do port forwarding. Well you cant. And Verizon Wireless only has ONE model that supports Port forwarding. My Iphone 6+ also does not support port forwarding. Like I said my old samsung mifi (also verizon plan) didnt have to port forward it just let me on. So i am going to attempt to order the Jetpack that supports port forwarding and pray that fixes the issue. If not i guess I will be stuck using Roll20...Unfortunately I will not be back home for another 2 to 3 weeks most likely, I am going to wait untill i get closer to that point to make the order. If it works i will let you guys know.

For any of you out there using verizon to attempt to connect here is the model of jetpack that supports port forwarding. If anyone does use it please keep us posted if your able to connect with it.
Verizon jetpack model: AC791L

As i said above its the ONLY model of jetpack that supports it..



ComputerTrucker -You have to install another application to get past the port restrictions.. I think it was Damned who got me to install and use Hamchi -and it works great.. So just install it and your players too FYI...

If you want, contact me via private message and I will help you test your configuration...

[Trenloe]

@computertrucker and reddogg48801 If you're running a configuration that plain doesn't support port forwarding then you can use Hamachi (info here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20309-GM-Connection-Issues-Tried-Everything-Try-Hamachi) or a VPN service provider (info here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20160-Using-a-VPN-Service-Provider-to-get-around-port-forwarding-issues).

I've frequently GM'd FG games from hotels and over cellphone internet using such a solution.

[damned]

Cosmo - cool, sorry all the names blur... generally it should stay working once setup so Im happy to have another look.
Unfortunately the connectivity model cant be changed on the current game engine so any change on this is not likely to happen this year....

While setting up Hamachi is another step for everyone, once its done its pretty reliable. It would be great to not have to, but for now it is what it is.
Do yell if you need help.

[midas]

I'm an IT admin for a company that uses Verizon wireless connectivity for a large number of remote construction jobsites. I've been told by Verizon that they can't do port forwarding unless you pay for a static IP address on the account. We've not gone this route yet (we only had one site that was going to use it for a remote webcam). We only have a handful of Jetpacks (we typically use standard USB devices paired with a Cradlepoint MBR1200B router, as they have wired devices like multi-function printer/copier/scanners on the jobsites) but it's interesting to know that there's only one model that will support the forwarding.

As Cosmo mentions, the basic workaround would be to use a VPN provider like Hamachi. Your players would also need Hamachi, and then once everyone is connected to Hamachi then the players would connect to your Hamachi IP (not your campaign alias or whatever IP address you may see in FG).

[ddavison]

I agree that it is a barrier to entry. For most users, it is a relatively easy barrier to overcome (like putting your CC into Uber once) -- but like you said, it is still a barrier. If you travel a lot or your ISP is not easy to work with, the barrier is even greater and you have to look at using Hamachi or a similar service.

We are still working on the next version in Unity and we are hoping to remove some of the networking barriers in this version.

[Trenloe]

I spent 10 minutes with computertrucker yesterday testing Hamachi to connect to his FG campaign. Worked fine - quick and easy to setup. Follow damned's instructions here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20309-GM-Connection-Issues-Tried-Everything-Try-Hamachi

[Cosmo]

Trenloe, thanks for helping him out!

[computertrucker]

yes thank you for the help man! it was much appreciated

[Full Bleed]

It has nothing to do about blame, but about using a more standard set of tech that makes the entry into this software much easier.
There is nothing "standard" about forcing users to use Hosted Servers. It's a model that makes setup easier (i.e. there is no setup), but it comes at a cost. Most notably the recurring costs to maintain those servers. I, for one, do *not* want to pay someone else to host a server I'm perfectly capable of hosting. And, more importantly, I do not want to be beholden to the quality some offsite servers and service to run my games. I don't want my campaigns saved somewhere else where I need an internet connection to work on them. And I don't want to use software that won't function if those servers go down or the company goes out of business, etc.


Move away such restrictions and adopt a more fluid method... It can be done, just look at their competitors.
Consider this a counter opinion.

My interest in FG was grounded on the fact that it 1) allows users to host their own games and 2) is supposed to be "merging" with TabletopConnect. Losing one of those things will, likely, remove FG from my gaming portfolio.

I get that port-forwarding is challenging for some users and some situations. But there are workarounds for those who are on the road or truly blocked (i.e. Hamachi and other VPN apps) and for the others it's just a matter of a proper configuration of their routers and firewalls (which, btw, only the server has to do... which is a minority of the user base.)

In short, switching to a hosted server *requirement* isn't a "no brainer". There are just as many (if not more) downsides... depending on your perspective.

[Andraax]

In short, switching to a hosted server *requirement* isn't a "no brainer". There are just as many (if not more) downsides... depending on your perspective.

One that you forgot to mention, but is really important to some people - if you upload your campaign materials to a server owned by someone else (cloud hosting), it becomes theirs to control. They can use it for whatever purposes they like, up to and including selling content that you created without your permission or compensating you for it.

[Full Bleed]

One that you forgot to mention, but is really important to some people - if you upload your campaign materials to a server owned by someone else (cloud hosting), it becomes theirs to control. They can use it for whatever purposes they like, up to and including selling content that you created without your permission or compensating you for it.
I'm not sure that this is the case with all hosted services in this niche, but it would not surprise me if some tried to slip in that sort of legalese.

At any rate, relying on the cloud or a hosted connection does not appeal to all. In fact, I very much wanted to support and purchase Realm Works. But their cloud service requirement and dependencies cost them my business. I really hope that FG does not follow suit. It has so much promise (particularly after acquiring the talent and IP from TabletopConnect).

[DeadlySecret]

Take note that maybe your internal address is changing. Log into your router and make sure your PC's internal network address is still what you set it to be. I have had that happen to me a few times while using auto configurations. Once I assigned a network address to my PC so that it doesn't change, the issue stopped.

For example. My PC was 192.168.1.2 and now it's 192.168.1.4 but I assigned the open port to the address 192.168.1.2 and players can't join. So I set it to 192.168.1.4 and voila they can join again. Or set it to allow all network devices to access the port.

Hopefully I explained that clearly and this helps. Not the best at these things.

[Full Bleed]

Take note that maybe your internal address is changing. Log into your router and make sure your PC's internal network address is still what you set it to be. I have had that happen to me a few times while using auto configurations. Once I assigned a network address to my PC so that it doesn't change, the issue stopped.

For example. My PC was 192.168.1.2 and now it's 192.168.1.4 but I assigned the open port to the address 192.168.1.2 and players can't join. So I set it to 192.168.1.4 and voila they can join again. Or set it to allow all network devices to access the port.

Hopefully I explained that clearly and this helps. Not the best at these things.
This is absolutely a pitfall that many fall into. They open a single port to a single address, and then the address changes because their router is using DHCP (dynamically assigned internal IP addresses, usually based on the order that devices connect to a router.)

You can, as you suggest, just change the port forwarding to reflect the proper address that has changed or you could look at making the address on your host computer static so that you only have to set it once.

Rather than take a lot of time to explain that, here is a 3 minute Youtube video that walks people through the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQdxxckMD4I

[Galach]

Not even this solution is definitive. For example, imagine a house like mine: I have 2 notebooks (my own and my wife’s), one tablet end two cell phones, all connected to my internal network.

I had fixed the IP address in my notebook, I can’t do this on my phone. Now, I turned off my notebook, and leave for work.

When I came back home, my cell phone took the first available IP address from DHCP table, sadly, the same my notebook was using.

So, when I try to connect to the internet with my notebook, no luck – the address is already used, and I can’t take it unless I turn off the wireless connection in my phone.

The only way to prevent any issue with port forwarding is accessing the DHCP server on your router, and then manually assigning IP addresses to all your network adapters.

But for that, you will need to discover the MAC Address of your network adapters (in Windows, in a command prompt, you can simply use the “ipconfig /all” command – no quotation marks there), but other devices will vary.

Finally, and this is a crap, every router manufacturer will put this in a different place, or will make the process different, without any real standard, so you will need to Google it.

I left the DHCP server on, because when people pass by, they still can connect on my network without manually assigning IPs, but for my devices, they will always get the same address no matter what connects on my network.

Here is my set up, to give you an example:


14307

[dulux-oz]

So what you do people, is use DHCP to assign the same IP address to the same MAC address - this is sometimes known as an IP Address Reservation. You can find the MAC address of your PC by using the ipconfig /all comand from the PC's command line (ie a command window). Once you've got that, in your router go to the reservations page and put the MAC address in and then assign the chosen IP address to that MAC address. Then the only computer that will ever be given that IP address is the one with the associated MAC address.

We (ICT Professionals) have been doing this for years with our company servers, etc.

This is what Galach was reffering to

[damned]

You can have your DHCP server assign the same IP address by MAC Address.
You can change the DHCP scope so it only hands out addresses between a particular range - say .100-.150 and then manually set your games server computer with a static address outside this range.
Many residential routers let you setup port forwarding to a Computer by its netbios name so you dont need the mac address or even to assign the computer the same ip address.
Many routers UPnP mode works reliably with Fantasy Grounds
You can set your router to place your computer in a DMZ zone/mode (not recommended).

So there are actually lots of ways of reliably setting up your network to support fantasy grounds.

[Galach]

So there are actually lots of ways of reliably setting up your network to support fantasy grounds.

Yet, no of them will solve the problem stated on the first post, just because Cosmo do not have access to the routers in the hotels and so on.

Anyway, I would no change the current server/client model FG uses today, not for a cloud-server connection like Roll20 uses, especially because the later requires servers and internet connections that the service providers usually cannot afford, and sometimes do not desire to, so they can provide to clients a service that works properly.

Not to mention how a premium quality service would affect prices: to offer with quality a 24/7 service, 365 days a year, the company would need to hire a full staff just to take care of the service.

In top of the price of the required hardware - and constant maintenance and upgrades - you would need to add to this cost at least one backup expert, one disaster recovery expert (per work shift), one network expert (per work shift) and one OS expert (per work shift).

If you neglect completely a team to offer real time customer support (people will call you if the service becomes unavailable), you will need at least seven new employees, and IT staff is not cheap.

[Seya]

I use hamachi it's super easy and I haven't had any complaints.

[Full Bleed]

Yet, no of them will solve the problem stated on the first post, just because Cosmo do not have access to the routers in the hotels and so on.
That issue was mentioned later on and is a separate issue. He would need a VPN for that. And, again, there is more than one way to slay that beast and plenty of people here who have proven very willing to assist.

But, for the record, the "first post" only mentions an issue with not getting settings on his Time Warner router to "stick." On the second page, he notes that Damned helped him get it to work (for one session) and then things "changed". Since the likely issue is the one DeadlySecret mentioned (i.e. his local IP address may have changed on his host terminal and the open port is now pointing to the wrong IP address) the discussion has veered in that direction.

Overall... I don't see anyone denying that there is a (minor) technical hurdle to overcome when setting up a server (i.e. port forwarding). Nor that there aren't a minority of circumstances where additional obstacles need to be overcome (due to a double-nat network, remote serving on an inaccessible network, more complex hardware/software configurations, etc.) The counter positions I wanted to make were that 1) every situation I can think of has a workable solution, 2) there appears to be a plethora of people here willing to assist, and 3) the "simpler" alternative (cloud hosting) has significant downsides that the original advocate may not have been aware of.

[Senoj]

While I have no problems with port 1802 on my end, I am actually glad I have read this thread. Otherwise, I would not have known about Himachi. Several years back, I did a lot of travelling and living out of hotels. At the time, I was very limited to the VTT software options that I could use. I am glad to know Himachi allows for options that I would have thought closed to me.

[Galach]

The counter positions I wanted to make were that 1) every situation I can think of has a workable solution, 2) there appears to be a plethora of people here willing to assist, and 3) the "simpler" alternative (cloud hosting) has significant downsides that the original advocate may not have been aware of.

This is what I tried to stress: they are minor issues if compared to the advantages of the current server-client model, since the option would be more expensive end not necessarily better (Roll20 servers can barely hold traffic on weekends, with a lot of lag and freezes, for example).

In my opinion, FG should stay as it is, and even Hamachi is a very small price to pay for using it as it is now.

[DeadlySecret]

The only thing that would solve any of this is if Fantasy Grounds had a huge server that we all can join and host games on. Port forwarding wouldn't be needed. Of course not all companies can afford that kind of server space.

So we have to take what we got. When my players are out of town but can log onto voice, I just describe their situation and we play that way. If I'm gone, I would rather be enjoying wherever it was I went to, than hosting a game away from my PC. Of course this doesn't work for everyone but I also don't see an issue with the current set up.

In my opinion, I also think it should stay the way it is.

[Willot]

Yeah the "Not sticking" thing with the ports is probably the router. If ya network is set up to Dynamically allocate IPs, it changes which IP of the FG Computer periodically (the length of time the computer keeps the same IP is called the lease) . If you set ya router (switch) and Computers for Static IPs it will stop doing this. Probably with it the hackers (or hunters) can now find thewr prey coz it stopped moving....

Your ISP does this too. (Which is why if you tell your players you IP address to join in a month or two they tell you they cant connect.. You ISP changed IPs on you.)

All this is what makes it tricky!
Your router (or network switch) is changing IPs on your home computers all the time and in turn you ISP is changing the IPs they allocate to you at your house all the time. All for the sake of security. Now wonder FG doesnt kjnow whether its coming or going!

And yeah more standalone software now uses various tricks to keep track of your IP (not unlike what hackers do).

It true to say the platform FG was written on goes back to the old days where all software had these problems.

Which why IM glad they are finally trying to get the whole thing ported over to a new Platform. (Unity)

[Willot]

The only thing that would solve any of this is if Fantasy Grounds had a huge server that we all can join and host games on..

I think this is what the alais thing is for? Problem then is if the server goes dont no one can join any games (uness you know the GM host ip) I think?

[Trenloe]

I think this is what the alais thing is for?
The Alias is so that the GM doesn't have to give out their Internet IP address that can change quite frequently. They use the same alias every time and the FantasyGrounds.com server registers the Internet IP address with that alias so the players just keep using the same alias and no one needs to worry about the changing Internet IP address of the GMs connection.

DeadlySecret was talking about a huge server which actually ran the GM session.

[Willot]

the alias is so that the gm doesn't have to give out their internet ip address that can change quite frequently. They use the same alias every time and the fantasygrounds.com server registers the internet ip address with that alias so the players just keep using the same alias and no one needs to worry about the changing internet ip address of the gms connection.

Deadlysecret was talking about a huge server which actually ran the gm session.
ah!

[Full Bleed]

Probably with it the hackers (or hunters) can now find thewr prey coz it stopped moving....
99.99999% of people using a router at home are using a predictable range of internal IP addresses. It changing every once in awhile isn't a security feature that keeps out hackers. Various protocols and your firewalls are doing that work.


Your router (or network switch) is changing IPs on your home computers all the time and in turn you ISP is changing the IPs they allocate to you at your house all the time. All for the sake of security.

Again. Not a security issue.

It's more of a convenience issue and a legacy issue of the internet and how it is used.

For example, one of the biggest reasons many people don't have static IP's from their ISPs is because their ISP is probably charging extra for "professional/business" users to get one. They also wanted to discourage people from having permanent servers at their homes (again, forcing them to pay for a business grade service to get a static IP).

Of course, having a static IP from your ISP and one on your local network are two different issues... and I don't mean to take this conversation into a network security scope... but I also don't want to give people the false impression that having a static IP at home for FG puts them at some kind of heightened security risk.

Here are some other reasons: https://www.howtogeek.com/163747/why-do-isps-change-your-ip-address/


(Roll20 servers can barely hold traffic on weekends, with a lot of lag and freezes, for example)
I can neither confirm nor deny this because Roll20 is not the VTT for me, but I would not be surprised and it is *exactly* that sort of thing that steers me away from advocating for a hosted solution. Roll20 isn't the first VTT to have a hosted server option. Worse, analytics probably confirm exactly when their quality of service begins to drop off... and failure to scale properly to deal with it is a cost cutting maneuver.

However, if someone has a problem with their personal internet service and can't host a game with FG, it won't matter if they have a hosted solution to connect to (like Roll20). But if their internet is running along at warp 9, and the hosted solution is having issues because it can't handle peak traffic, they're paying a premium for what reason exactly?

[ddaley]

Seriously? Some of us have limited options for ISPs and the ISPs that we use may assign private addresses (as in my case). So, my only choice is to use one of the VPN services or use roll20 or equivalent. If FG could provide a server side service to allow users and DMs to connect, that could alleviate a lot of issues.


Not sure why you're blaming FG for your ISPs shortcomings.

[damned]

Hey ddaley if you would like me to have a quick look with you let me know.

[ddaley]

Well, to make life easier, I am thinking of signing up with purevpn. They have 2 years for $49.95 right now ( https://www.purevpn.com/order/ ). Anyone have any feedback about purevpn?


Hey ddaley if you would like me to have a quick look with you let me know.

[damned]

Most VPN services will not let you port forward. Most are also still natted with multiple users on them. Make sure your VPN service supports what you want before spending $50 on it.
Send me a PM and I will see if we can get you working.

[Trenloe]

Well, to make life easier, I am thinking of signing up with purevpn. They have 2 years for $49.95 right now ( https://www.purevpn.com/order/ ). Anyone have any feedback about purevpn?
Valarian and I did some testing with this two days ago. It works perfectly for me, but Valarian needed to pay extra for the NAT Firewall (according to their support). I even lent my login to Valarian and it worked fine for him with my login, but not with his. PureVPN support swore that all accounts are the same and said I must have the NAT Firewall (if I do I'm not paying for it and it's not on my account and I haven't done any config on it - so I don't think that's the case).

My PureVPN account is over 2 years old (before they released the NAT firewall) so I think there is something, somewhere, in my backend account config that allows ports through. But not for new accounts.

I've used HideMyAss (HMA) recently as well - and this appears to work well, if you use a VPN server that doesn't block ports. Apparently some of the HMA servers in rented data centers have non-standard ports blocked. I found a data center (and set of servers) that worked with FG on my second try - so I don't think it's too much hassle finding some HMA servers that allow the FG port through. HMA usually have some offers pop up now and then that get the price for a year below $50 (the current offer is $60 a year). That's a lot more than the current PureVPN offer - but not if you factor in the additional cost of the NAT firewall.

[ddaley]

Interesting. I may play with this some more this weekend and may ping damned. No matter what I have tried, the connection test in FG fails. A friend, who has a real IP, set up a VPN service on his machine. When I connected to his VPN and hosted a game in FG, he was then able to connect to my FG server. Based on that test, I figured purevpn could work as well. But, it would suck to spend $50 and have that still not work.

Luckily, I have only used FG at the table so far... so I haven't needed to have any remote clients connect. But, it would be nice to be able to support remote players.


Valarian and I did some testing with this two days ago. It works perfectly for me, but Valarian needed to pay extra for the NAT Firewall (according to their support). I even lent my login to Valarian and it worked fine for him with my login, but not with his. PureVPN support swore that all accounts are the same and said I must have the NAT Firewall (if I do I'm not paying for it and it's not on my account and I haven't done any config on it - so I don't think that's the case).

My PureVPN account is over 2 years old (before they released the NAT firewall) so I think there is something, somewhere, in my backend account config that allows ports through. But not for new accounts.

I've used HideMyAss (HMA) recently as well - and this appears to work well, if you use a VPN server that doesn't block ports. Apparently some of the HMA servers in rented data centers have non-standard ports blocked. I found a data center (and set of servers) that worked with FG on my second try - so I don't think it's too much hassle finding some HMA servers that allow the FG port through. HMA usually have some offers pop up now and then that get the price for a year below $50 (the current offer is $60 a year). That's a lot more than the current PureVPN offer - but not if you factor in the additional cost of the NAT firewall.

[Valarian]

Valarian and I did some testing with this two days ago. It works perfectly for me, but Valarian needed to pay extra for the NAT Firewall (according to their support). I even lent my login to Valarian and it worked fine for him with my login, but not with his. PureVPN support swore that all accounts are the same and said I must have the NAT Firewall (if I do I'm not paying for it and it's not on my account and I haven't done any config on it - so I don't think that's the case).

My PureVPN account is over 2 years old (before they released the NAT firewall) so I think there is something, somewhere, in my backend account config that allows ports through. But not for new accounts.

I've used HideMyAss (HMA) recently as well - and this appears to work well, if you use a VPN server that doesn't block ports. Apparently some of the HMA servers in rented data centers have non-standard ports blocked. I found a data center (and set of servers) that worked with FG on my second try - so I don't think it's too much hassle finding some HMA servers that allow the FG port through. HMA usually have some offers pop up now and then that get the price for a year below $50 (the current offer is $60 a year). That's a lot more than the current PureVPN offer - but not if you factor in the additional cost of the NAT firewall.

The NAt Firewall didn't work either ��

[Myrdin Potter]

I have pureVPN and it is the private IP address add-on that made the difference. I used it because I was in China all the time. Only way to reliably connect from hotels if I wanted to be the GM. If I was a player it was no issue. I do not have the NAT option.

Michael

[Trenloe]

I have pureVPN and it is the private IP address add-on that made the difference.
Thanks for the info, is that the "dedicated IP" add on? I don't have that on my account either, my VPN IP changes every time I connect. I guess I'm just lucky or have some grandfathered functionality that isn't shown on my account.

[Cosmo]

Yet, no of them will solve the problem stated on the first post, just because Cosmo do not have access to the routers in the hotels and so on.

Anyway, I would no change the current server/client model FG uses today, not for a cloud-server connection like Roll20 uses, especially because the later requires servers and internet connections that the service providers usually cannot afford, and sometimes do not desire to, so they can provide to clients a service that works properly.

Not to mention how a premium quality service would affect prices: to offer with quality a 24/7 service, 365 days a year, the company would need to hire a full staff just to take care of the service.

In top of the price of the required hardware - and constant maintenance and upgrades - you would need to add to this cost at least one backup expert, one disaster recovery expert (per work shift), one network expert (per work shift) and one OS expert (per work shift).

If you neglect completely a team to offer real time customer support (people will call you if the service becomes unavailable), you will need at least seven new employees, and IT staff is not cheap.

Galach, Roll20 offers their service for free and has a paid options (which I use so I can get Dynamic lighting) and I have to say I never had a problem with their service. In their dev blogs they talked about the cost and etc. They did experience an issue and moved to another provider to reduce latency and etc.. Anyway, I am very happy with their products easy of entry.

Now, I do prefer the FG content as it is much richer.. (But as I have said before.. the clock is ticking on that)....

See this blog (somewhere they talk about the tech stack) https://blog.roll20.net/

[DeadlySecret]

Galach, Roll20 offers their service for free and has a paid options (which I use so I can get Dynamic lighting) and I have to say I never had a problem with their service. In their dev blogs they talked about the cost and etc. They did experience an issue and moved to another provider to reduce latency and etc.. Anyway, I am very happy with their products easy of entry.

Now, I do prefer the FG content as it is much richer.. (But as I have said before.. the clock is ticking on that)....

See this blog (somewhere they talk about the tech stack) https://blog.roll20.net/

You must be lucky because every game I play in Roll20 (3 nights a week to this date), at some point the character sheets freeze, the servers freeze and GM's can't continue running game because they rely too heavily on functioning software. In fact Roll20's constant freezing was one of the reasons I looked for alternative 2 years ago and I kinda laugh inside because their issues are no different today as they were 2 years back and I don't have to pay a penny more than what I have already.

[Cosmo]

A recap of what I had to do to get this to work...
The modem I am using is a ARRIS
Get your computers IP address
Click on start in windows and run cmd
Type IPCONFIG and get your computers IP address and MAC address for your network card


Browse to 192.168.0.1 --- Seems IE 11 works better than Chrome for this modem... :(
Login to the modems management console via the web page provided at the url 192.168.0.1


Click on the LAN SETUP Tab
Click on Client List
You will find your computer in the Attached Client List.
Note the IP and MAC address. Copy the mac address
Add a Reserved IP Client list
Enter the IP address of your computer, the MAC address and etc.
Save.
Reboot modem
Then check to make sure your settings stuck.

Click on the Firewall tab
Set the following in FIREWALL SETTINGS
Enable Firewall (true)
DoS Attack Protection (fale)
Block Pings (true)
IPSec Pass Through (true)
PPTP Pass Through (true)
L2TP Pass Through (true)
Block Fragmented IP Packets (false)

Set the following in VIRTUAL SERVER / PORTS FORWARDING SETTINGs
Add a rule for Inbound port 1802 Type Both, Private IP Address (what your machine is assigned covered above in previous steps) and Local port 1802
Save

Set PROT TRIGGERS
Add a port Trigger for outbound port 1802, type both and Inbound Port 1802
Save

Check your local PC setting for the following:

I had to disable WINDOWS FIREWALL
I had to disable ESET FIREWALL

Between each change, for some weird reason I had to reboot.
Once all this (not all that much really) I was able to host a game without using hamachi.

Easy.. right..

Thanks everyone for your advice and suggestions.. Time Warner cable customer support was useless.

[Cosmo]

Weird never had those kinds of issues.. maybe hardware related? I have a fairly beefy computer... Can't be internet connection because FG and Roll20 still depend on a consistent ISP connection and through put.

[DeadlySecret]

Weird never had those kinds of issues.. maybe hardware related? I have a fairly beefy computer... Can't be internet connection because FG and Roll20 still depend on a consistent ISP connection and through put.

If all the players within the campaign are having the issue, you can count the ISP and hardware out. This is a Roll20 congestion issue and they know it.

[ddavison]

Hey Cosmo, you shouldn't have to reboot in between any of those steps or even reboot your router. There are only really a few steps needed from that list. The rest of the settings won't hurt, but they weren't necessary or called for by Fantasy Grounds. We recommend *not* disabling your Windows firewall though. Windows should automatically prompt you when you first run FG to allow it through the Firewall. If you answered No, you can manually add it to your Windows firewall as an exception. Running multiple firewalls on your same PC is probably discouraged by most firewall vendors, though, so this might have been a problem if you had Windows and ESET both running.

1. You can get the local IP address from the Fantasy Grounds software just above the Connection Test. IPCONFIG provides the same info if you prefer that route.
2. Adding a reserved IP address is a good long term solution but isn't required. If you don't do this and you leave your computer turned off for any length of time (normally greater than a day or two) you may have to replace the port forward setting if your local IP address changes.
3. Adding the port forward / virtual server rule for port 1802 is all you needed. No need for port triggering.

[Cosmo]

If all the players within the campaign are having the issue, you can count the ISP and hardware out. This is a Roll20 congestion issue and they know it.

Like I said earlier, they acknowledged that and change cloud services to aws (which I use for my cloud software products that I code, plus a few azure services too)... anyway, I have not experienced this issue nor have my players.

Funny, we have had more problems with Skype dropping calls than roll20- OMG, don't get me started on TeamSpeak.. lol

Game on!

[damned]

Hey Cosmo - Im glad you got up and running!

[Ardem]

DD - Even if you do make a cloud based connection option please make a fall back Local port forward option like it is now. There is nothing more annoying then waiting for a master server to be reboot if it goes down and us in the land of OZ normally means when states side server admins are sleeping.

Although Port forwarding has it flaws it also have a lot more ability to locate issues rather than a master server for someone like me who is a tech. I get amused at users these days about connections, you guys are spoilt with the net, you guys should've seen what I had to do just to get a html page loaded on a slip connection. <such fun>.

[lesliev]

Hi Cosmo

None of those settings in your router's Firewall tab should be needed either.
My router's DHCP server can't give my computer the same internal IP every time so when I run a game I do this:
1. Start my Fantasy Grounds game (Load Campaign)
2. Check my local IP address with ifconfig (you will use ipconfig on windows)
3. Enter that address as a port forward in my router (I don't have to restart anything on my router but it sounds like your one has trouble saving settings)
4. Check that port 1802 is visible from outside on https://canyouseeme.org

This process takes me about 2 minutes and I do it every time.

Here's a video of someone doing a similar thing with an Arris router:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuEDQuIvhP0

The person also adds a port trigger, but that should also not be needed. My router supports port triggering but I definitely don't need to use it.

ddavison: +1 on always supporting a local server even if you do start running an additional hosted service at some point.

[mrklin]

Hey Cosmo,

I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties getting the port forward set up. Do you happen to have a router and a separate wi-fi router? We have seen cases where people actually had two devices between them and the Internet and they needed to configure the ISP's router to port forward 1802 to the internal router and then configure their internal router to port forward 1802 to their personal computer.

Damned is a very knowledgeable person with regards to setting this up and is one of our moderators here. He can help you or you can try to schedule some time for us to assist you by emailing us at [email protected]

-Doug

THAT looks like my situation, and I've gotten ports forwarded but don't seem to be getting there, are there any guides to this in the forum so I can re-check my work?

[damned]

Send me a PM mrklin

[mrklin]

Send me a PM mrklin

Figured it out, for some reason the middle device was showing the wrong IP on it's web interface so I was forwarding the port to nowhere on my ISP's box, thx though.

[damned]

Figured it out, for some reason the middle device was showing the wrong IP on it's web interface so I was forwarding the port to nowhere on my ISP's box, thx though.

Excellent - back to your games everybody - nothing to see here :)

[dudeslife]

Ok, I have given up getting port 1802 open on my system because no matter what Time Warner Cable and I do on their router

I see your problem. You should use your own router and modem. There is no ifs, ands, or buts in this equation. If purchasing a modem or router is too expensive, then delay your internet installation by one month and use that money to buy your own equipment. Blaming Fantasy Grounds for anything related to your issues with a router is ludicrous. I didn't read the rest of this thread before responding but hopefully someone else point this out to you.

[Dorian]

Many thanks to Damned helping me set up the ability to host and answering all my safety concerned questions!