warlocks are so confusing

[rabbedrabit]

ok so my current character is a lvl 4 pally but i am thinking of taking warlock for 4 lvls for blade pact and some extra spell slots to use my devine smite with. but im looking and at 5th lvl i can take an evocation that gives me an extra attack with my pact weapon and im thinking that i will get another at 5th lvl pally. am i looking at this correctly would that really be 3 attacks at lvl 10 character or am i missing something?

thanks for the advice in advance

[Zacchaeus]

I'm assuming that you are looking at the Thirsting Blade Invocation?

So, yes. This gives you an additional attack when you get to Warlock level 5, but only with your pact weapon. The question then becomes can you use the pact weapon as a Paladin?

[rabbedrabit]

I'm assuming that you are looking at the Thirsting Blade Invocation?

So, yes. This gives you an additional attack when you get to Warlock level 5, but only with your pact weapon. The question then becomes can you use the pact weapon as a Paladin?

why would you not be able to?

[Zacchaeus]

why would you not be able to?

I don't know, I'm just speculating. As written it seems to me that only the a Warlock gets a pact weapon and the extra attack only works it you attack with the pact weapon. So we can speculate that the Paladin part of the character can't use a pact weapon since he isn't a warlock. And that brings into question the whole viability of the build. (In other words at level 10 you get 2 attacks either with a pact weapon or with the paladin's weapon and not three).

I think the main reason to multiclass into Warlock is so that the Paladin can use the Warlock's spell slots to Divine Smite. Those spell slots are recovered after a short rest rather than the Paladin's slots which recover only after a long rest. Thus the character can divine smite rather more often.

[rabbedrabit]

I don't know, I'm just speculating. As written it seems to me that only the a Warlock gets a pact weapon and the extra attack only works it you attack with the pact weapon. So we can speculate that the Paladin part of the character can't use a pact weapon since he isn't a warlock. And that brings into question the whole viability of the build. (In other words at level 10 you get 2 attacks either with a pact weapon or with the paladin's weapon and not three).

I think the main reason to multiclass into Warlock is so that the Paladin can use the Warlock's spell slots to Divine Smite. Those spell slots are recovered after a short rest rather than the Paladin's slots which recover only after a long rest. Thus the character can divine smite rather more often.

yes that was the main reason of thinking of taking warlock but the pact of the blade pretty much makes me disarmable and there is the extra attack that is why i asked.

[rabbedrabit]

besides the cantrips that i will take for rp and flair ie the palladin always has a soft white light that makes his armor sparckle and what not, yes i know its consentration but will be using it out of combat

[Zacchaeus]

All speculation aside there's no game reason why you don't get three attacks at level 10. After all you'd get the same benefit from Fighter 5/Paladin 5 or Monk 5/Figher 5 etc.

[rabbedrabit]

All speculation aside there's no game reason why you don't get three attacks at level 10. After all you'd get the same benefit from Fighter 5/Paladin 5 or Monk 5/Figher 5 etc.
i found it extra attacks dont stack unless specified that they give 3 attacks ie fighters.
but next question at 4th lvl warlock the spells slots are 2nd lvl spells slots so would the divine smites be 3d8 unless undead or fiend then making it 4d8?

[jshauber]

As a GM I would make you do some SERIOUS explaining as to why your paladin suddenly made a pact with an outsider to gain Warlock levels?

Seems to me that would be violating your pally vows and cause you to lose the paladin levels, but then I am a hard-arse that way sometimes...

[JohnD]

As a GM I would make you do some SERIOUS explaining as to why your paladin suddenly made a pact with an outsider to gain Warlock levels?

Seems to me that would be violating your pally vows and cause you to lose the paladin levels, but then I am a hard-arse that way sometimes...

Was thinking more or less the same thing myself. Then again, everyone has their own style of game.

[kylania]

I'm interested to see what your Deity says about this new non-god otherworldly being you've decided to dedicate your search for more knowledge and power to. Didn't your god provide you with all the divine power and secrets you could ever need? :)

[rabbedrabit]

As a GM I would make you do some SERIOUS explaining as to why your paladin suddenly made a pact with an outsider to gain Warlock levels?

Seems to me that would be violating your pally vows and cause you to lose the paladin levels, but then I am a hard-arse that way sometimes...
well the first that comes to mind is you have a fey deity and take a fey pact. but this is not the case for my character im running a vengience pally and thinking of takeing undieing pact yes it will take some explaining but im in ravenloft who knows what can happen there.

[Zacchaeus]

Ah, right. Well spotted on that one. I did wonder but I couldn't find anything that said no.

So Divine Smite basically uses up a spell slot to get extra damage. As a half caster at level 4 your Paladin will be a second level caster and according to the table in the PHB you'll have 3 1st level spell slots. As a 1st level Warlock you get one 1st level spell slot. You don't get a second level spell slot until you are a 3rd level Warlock. So from level 7 (Paladin 4/Warlock 3) you will be able to use Divine Smite once at a level 2 slot and 3 times at a level one slot.

So, I suppose the answer to your question is yes; if you use the Warlock slot and you have 4 levels of Warlock you can use the second level slot to 'cast' Divine Smite.

[Zacchaeus]

As a GM I would make you do some SERIOUS explaining as to why your paladin suddenly made a pact with an outsider to gain Warlock levels?

Seems to me that would be violating your pally vows and cause you to lose the paladin levels, but then I am a hard-arse that way sometimes...

Agreed. Clearly he would have to change to an anti Paladin to be able to contemplate this.

[rabbedrabit]

well thats to bad was a good idea though on to the next one

[X-baby longshot]

specifics are give on page 164 of the players handbook under extra attacks section of multiclassing, they don't stack, you gain one effect from one class, specificly mentions the warlock ability as not stacking with extra attack ability.

[rabbedrabit]

specifics are give on page 164 of the players handbook under extra attacks section of multiclassing, they don't stack, you gain one effect from one class, specificly mentions the warlock ability as not stacking with extra attack ability.
yes i found it earlier but thanks though.

[chillman0122]

Uuuuugggggghhhhhhhh one of my players wanted to switch classes to warlock as a campaign reward. Which I'm totally cool with them making their own destinies... but rebuilding a character from scratch at level 10 as a lock was brutal.

[Nylanfs]

PCGen (https://pcgen.org) maybe?

[chillman0122]

Does that support 5th Edition? I thought PCGen was PF/3.5

[LordEntrails]

Even though they have not updated their front page to say so, yes it does. At least the 5ESRD. See; https://pcgen.org/2016/01/13/i-hear-you-like-5e-so-do-we/

[chillman0122]

Ah! Most honorable. That could save me a heap of time in the future... I also enjoy FG's click and drag from the PHB (crazy handy!), but since this was kind of an unusual situation, we sat down and did it by hand from the book. I wanted the player to have a firm-ish grasp on their abilities, and it gave me some pretty good insight into the class as well, since I hadn't had any experience with it up till that point.

[Nylanfs]

It supported 5e 18 hrs after the srd dropped.

[chillman0122]

Between deployments and workups I've been out of touch for a few years lol. Still playing catch up... so many cool tools that weren't around when I started playing tabletop RPGs! I remember sitting down and making a dice roller/character builder for 3.0 on my TI calculator, and thinking it was going to revolutionize D&D haha... kids, man.

But that's really got nothing to do with how confusing warlocks are. On topic, it took me quite a while to figure out why their spell table only went up to level five but their spell list went higher. Super frustrating lol