Frog God Games' Book of Lost Spells is now available

[ddavison]

Check out this collection of 708 new spells for use with the 5E ruleset. Spells are indexed by class and level and also available in a single, searchable index. These spells benefit from the same level of automation as the other official spells that are available and some of the spells have images that can be shared with the players. If you use the new auto-lookup features for Innate Spellcasting and Spellcasting traits, these spells become part of the "lookup" process and will get auto-parsed onto an NPC when you close or re-open them or when they get dragged to the combat tracker. Other than that, they are available for use on PC character sheets just like other spells.

Link:
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.xcp?id=FGG5EBOLSFG

Here is an example spell:


Merge Into Art
6th-level transmutation
Wizard
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour
Range: Self
Area of Effect: Self
Saving Throw: None
You step into a painting, tapestry, or mosaic large enough to encompass your height. Your shape and form becomes woven into the tapestry or painted into the picture as if it were part of the original work, changing your coloration and form as necessary to match the style of the art.
You are aware of your surroundings as if watching through a window, but your field of view is restricted to a narrow band in front of the artwork. You can't speak or cast spells while merged into the art, but you can end the spell as an action. The spell also ends if the artwork becomes damaged. When the spell ends, you appear in an unoccupied space adjacent to the artwork.


13778

[Zacchaeus]

Nice work DD.

[spite]

In the interest of keeping all my content from one platform, is this going to be steam-released?

[Zacchaeus]

I am sure it will be spite; it just takes a bit of time for things to get through the hurdles of Steam.

[spite]

Oh yea, I get that. It's just always been fresh on my steam when I see a dd anouncement I shoot over to steam and pick it up :)

[ddavison]

It has been submitted to Steam but hasn't been marked as approved yet. It depends on how many items they have in the queue to approve, but they normally do so very quickly (1-2 business days)

[ddavison]

It is now available on Steam as well. :)

[spite]

Woohoo, thanks ddavison.


Also, I think I have a problem

[JohnD]

Can anyone comment on the spells in this? Are they OP compared to the PHB lists? Something there for every class or just arcane? If I'm guessing the random DMG treasure lists, will these be picked up and included in the possible results for scrolls? Etc...?

[ddavison]

There are a lot of spells, so I can't comment on the power level compared to other spells, in general. There are spells for all spellcasting classes, but more for wizards and sorcerers than for any other class. There are quite a few that I glanced at that I thought could make a cool addition to the game and even cool enough to write an event based encounter around.

[No1Sciguy]

Can anyone comment on the spells in this? Are they OP compared to the PHB lists? Something there for every class or just arcane? If I'm guessing the random DMG treasure lists, will these be picked up and included in the possible results for scrolls? Etc...?

I have the pdf of this and most are fine and seem appropriate for their spell level. Frog god games is a pretty good company and they do a good job. I tend to use these as something special or unique I can add as a DM to an adventure, rather than giving player direct access to all of them.

[kmfdm]

Can anyone comment on the spells in this? Are they OP compared to the PHB lists? Something there for every class or just arcane? If I'm guessing the random DMG treasure lists, will these be picked up and included in the possible results for scrolls? Etc...?

I was so disappointed by it I got a Steam Refund.

The format is still in 3e terms, and even falls prey to 3e terminology.
Its like they just took their 3e spells and just spent an hour to make it seem like 5e, without even comparing it to other spells in the PHB.
The worst part is these spells do exactly what the PHB does but worse... way worse.
Let alone the highly situational spells, there are some that give Advantage on certain ability checks but are level 2+, while Enhance Ability does that with no limitations.

So Im glad Steam gave me a refund, I would never use it.

[spite]

I was so disappointed by it I got a Steam Refund.

The format is still in 3e terms, and even falls prey to 3e terminology.
Its like they just took their 3e spells and just spent an hour to make it seem like 5e, without even comparing it to other spells in the PHB.
The worst part is these spells do exactly what the PHB does but worse... way worse.
Let alone the highly situational spells, there are some that give Advantage on certain ability checks but are level 2+, while Enhance Ability does that with no limitations.

So Im glad Steam gave me a refund, I would never use it.

That's a shame. I have certainly seen a few spells that have referred to other rules, such as Tactical Advantage instead of expertise, but nothing terrible, and certainly not for the vast majority of spells.

[timdog88]

I haven't read over this product yet, but I do know that many products that were released prior to the 5th edition srd used different terms such as "tactical advantage" in place of advantage to avoid copyright infringement. This could be the reference to 3rd ed rules you are seeing.

[kmfdm]

I haven't read over this product yet, but I do know that many products that were released prior to the 5th edition srd used different terms such as "tactical advantage" in place of advantage to avoid copyright infringement. This could be the reference to 3rd ed rules you are seeing.

Nah, Primeval Thule does the same thing.
There are some spells that refer to Morale checks and Helpless condition (3e terms)

[spite]

"Each shardbearer also gains proficiency in one random skill possessed by the original creature; if they already are proficient in the skill, they become expert in the skill, and if already expert, they gain tactical advantage on all uses of that skil"

I guess that could be changed to just advantage, but there is no place that clarifies that. I am pretty sure the term "advantage" isn't blocked by the SRD either.

[Zacchaeus]

It's a tricky one but I suppose these things could be regarded as 'bugs' and reported as such. This would put the onus on the author (of the FG module) to correct the offending text or to revert to the original publishers for clarification.

For example in one or two of the Legendary Games modules that I did for FG which were ported over from Pathfinder to 5e there was some text that was incompatible with 5e which I asked the publishers to reconsider and they did in fact change the text and issued an updated pdf. In some cases this delayed the publishing of the FG module but it did mean that when it was finalised things such as you describe had been corrected.

[spite]

I suppose I will suggest these as bugs in the bug report forum and hope for the best. :)
Worst case an addendum in the reference manual stating the intended rules or something?

[epithet]

Doug, I don't have a clue what kind of deal y'all typically strike with publishers, or what their cut is off the sale of the FG version of their product, but I'm kinda frustrated by the fact that, despite having the hardcover + pdf of the Book of Lost Spells and 5E Foes, the only way to get the FG version of it is to pay full price. I don't have a problem with paying a "conversion fee" for the effort y'all put into creating the FG module from the original work, but paying full price is a bitter pill to swallow. I paid double for the WotC products, but for a 3rd party product for which I already have the pdf (and can copy/paste easily) it's a tough sell.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you set up future arrangements where those who already have a physical product could get a discounted FG module, you might sell more of them. I have no idea how much of a pain that would be to set up, or how many more you'd sell for "conversion fee" level pricing, I'm just throwing the idea out there.

[kylania]

The response to that is always going to be "But we can't verify you own it" which of course means "No sale till you figure out how to do that". :)

[Zacchaeus]

It's also the case that the publisher simply licenses Smiteworks to sell the product and so Smiteworks will have very little control over what the pricing of the product I suspect. It is therefore the publisher that you should be setting your sights on since it is they who would ultimately have to decide whether a deal can be made whereby the FG product could be sold at any kind of discount alongside the original publication.

[epithet]

The response to that is always going to be "But we can't verify you own it" which of course means "No sale till you figure out how to do that". :)

I have my reciept from Frog God, and even if I didn't it's easy to get order history from their site.


It's also the case that the publisher simply licenses Smiteworks to sell the product and so Smiteworks will have very little control over what the pricing of the product I suspect. It is therefore the publisher that you should be setting your sights on since it is they who would ultimately have to decide whether a deal can be made whereby the FG product could be sold at any kind of discount alongside the original publication.

I did that. What I was told was:

Hi Richard,

We gave them the rights to those books so they could make their module. We
can't give you a discount on their products ... they are completely separate
companies from us.

Sorry,
Krista

So if SmiteWorks says I would need to talk to Frog God, and Frog God says I need to talk to Doug, what I'm hearing is "just leave us alone and buy it twice," which is frustrating.

[ddavison]

It's a tough problem, both from a consumer perspective (which I understand) and from the publisher and SmiteWorks perspective. Essentially, we license with a publisher to pay them X% of the purchase price in royalties. Our share of that covers our costs for conversion and helps fund our efforts and the other part goes to the publisher as a benefit to licensing it to us in the first place. For simplicity, let's say it is a 50/50 split. If you still wanted to pay SmiteWorks for the conversion work, then you'd be keeping one half of the cost. For the remaining cost, you could say, "hey, I've already paid you once or twice before for the PDF + hardback." If the other half went away, then where is the incentive for publishers to license their products to us? This would require the publisher to be willing to let another company make money off of their work, with no additional benefit to them. You could argue that it generates goodwill, and I would agree with you on that point. I just don't know if that is enough, especially for very small companies like we often see in the RPG industry.

Alternately, you could discount it across the board and both the publisher and SmiteWorks equally reduce their shares of the revenue by asking less for the product. The downside there is obviously that our return on investment is worse by whatever that percentage discount becomes. This means that we would potentially do fewer conversions and only do ones where we know they will have bigger sales. We already have some products that we convert that don't make nearly as much money as they should to pay for the time and effort. This would make that scenario even worse and would probably result in fewer options being available.

On top of both of those scenarios (and probably other scenarios I haven't thought of), you also have some added technical or customer service burden in order to validate prior ownership. Either the store code becomes more complicated in order to validate purchases with one or more publishers (we have 30 or so publishers) or customer service has to know how to verify each of these and take some form of manual step for each of those transactions. In both of those cases, the technical rewrite would fall on me and the customer service would fall on me.

From the consumer perspective, the entire thing is completely valid to want or expect a discount. I hope the discussion above helps to at least explain why it is not such a simple problem to solve though. By paying for a product again, you are essentially funding this sort of conversion work being done more and more in the future. It makes it easier for me to sell other companies on licensing their products and collecting and distributing their raw assets to someone else.

[Zacchaeus]

I hesitate to enter further into this debate since I do not know what deal was struck between Frog God and Smiteworks. However the wording of the reply you got is perhaps a little disingenuous. The wording should be 'gave them the rights in return for a cut of the sale price'. Hence my saying that in your case where you are buying the product effectively twice it is Frog God who ultimately benefit the most and it would be their call I believe to say well, ok if you bought it from us we'll give up our cut of the sale price from Smiteworks so you can get a discount on your second purchase. Clearly without that kind of deal it would be Smiteworks that would be losing revenue.

I can, to some extent, understand your frustration but on the other hand you are effectively buying two completely different products which, although contain the same information, are used for entirely different purposes.

[Axeking]

About the only way i could see this sort of discount to happen would be if the other publisher was selling the FG module too. Then you could get their bundle (book+pdf+FG mod) or possibly "upgrade" the bundle you purchased to the one now including the FG module...

[epithet]

Yeah, if I could add the FG mod for $10 to my order at Frog, I'd jump on it.

I would push back on the notion that it is two completely different products, though, because they're used for the same purpose. The physical book and the FG mod only differ in the venue: living room vs. virtual tabletop.

Honestly, it's not even the Book of Spells or 5E Foes I'm mostly thinking about - it's the Quests of Doom books. The spells I use to make NPCs less predictable, or to add to a looted spellbook as a seasoning agent. The 5e Foes I had only purchased as a pdf, so I've already bought the FG module for convenience. I would really like to have the 3 (soon to be 4) books of Quests of Doom as FG modules, though, because that would save me a metric ton of effort if I decide to use one of those scenarios - I could prep for it at nearly the last minute.

So, Doug... maybe when you are working out the deal for those books, you can suggest that Frog should hook up its loyal existing customers, eh? I can guarantee that cost effective FG integration will keep me returning to the Frog's well for years to come.

Just sayin'

[No1Sciguy]

Yeah, if I could add the FG mod for $10 to my order at Frog, I'd jump on it.

I would push back on the notion that it is two completely different products, though, because they're used for the same purpose. The physical book and the FG mod only differ in the venue: living room vs. virtual tabletop.

Honestly, it's not even the Book of Spells or 5E Foes I'm mostly thinking about - it's the Quests of Doom books. The spells I use to make NPCs less predictable, or to add to a looted spellbook as a seasoning agent. The 5e Foes I had only purchased as a pdf, so I've already bought the FG module for convenience. I would really like to have the 3 (soon to be 4) books of Quests of Doom as FG modules, though, because that would save me a metric ton of effort if I decide to use one of those scenarios - I could prep for it at nearly the last minute.

So, Doug... maybe when you are working out the deal for those books, you can suggest that Frog should hook up its loyal existing customers, eh? I can guarantee that cost effective FG integration will keep me returning to the Frog's well for years to come.

Just sayin'

I second that. :)

[Nylanfs]

Aflevine, have you seen the various terrain spells from Rite Publishing, they are for Pathfinder, but some good concepts.

https://endzeitgeist.com/101-forest-spells/

[ddavison]

It's something to consider. I will make sure to discuss it with them when we next talk. I think it would have to kick something off from their site to register the FG version.

[drakonin]

I was so disappointed by it I got a Steam Refund.

The format is still in 3e terms, and even falls prey to 3e terminology.
Its like they just took their 3e spells and just spent an hour to make it seem like 5e, without even comparing it to other spells in the PHB.
The worst part is these spells do exactly what the PHB does but worse... way worse.
Let alone the highly situational spells, there are some that give Advantage on certain ability checks but are level 2+, while Enhance Ability does that with no limitations.

So Im glad Steam gave me a refund, I would never use it.


Anyone know if this has been updated since release? I want to grab it so my casters have some more options but these types of things do concern me, the lack of necromancy spells in the PHB for example is a great reason to get more spells. :)

[Trenloe]

I doubt there's been any major changes to the way the spells work. You could ask on the publisher's forum: https://www.froggodgames.com/forum