Ready Action - Creature or Player determining another creature or players intention

[Baron28]

Readied actions...This action is ripe for meta gaming between players.

As a DM, I've devised a simple way to for players to use the mechanism and have come up with a counter mechanism to determine the intent, but give away the action readied. 1. State that your action is ready. 2. State the trigger. If the trigger goes off, then and only then, is the DM and the rest of the players made aware of the action taken by the player who took the ready action. Also, I have devised a means for players and creatures to determine the intent of a ready action. On their turn, a player or creature may use their action to roll a DC 10 wisdom check (insight for the players) to determine the intent of another player's or creature's ready. The player or creature must be able to see or hear (perhaps touch, taste, or smell...) to be able to make this check.

Example:

Wizard: I want to ready an action
DM: And the trigger is?
Wizard: When the Bugbears are in melee range of the fighter
DM: Is that all for your turn?
Wizard: Yes
DM: Bugbear 1 sees the wizard begin to mutter words and gesticulate his hands. He decides to use his action to determine what the Wizard is doing. {Roll DC 10 Wisdom Check}. A 12.
Wizard: I'm readying a spell!
DM: The Bugbear decides discretion is the better part of valor. He yells something in goblin to the other Bugbears and moves away.
DM: {The rest of the Bugbears heed the words of the first Bugbear, spread out and throw javelins, rather than move in melee range and attack with Morning Stars.}

Comments, Suggestions, Thoughts anyone?

[Griogre]

I also make the player tell me what the ready action is - swing, cast a spell, run, open the door, etc. Per the rules with spells, the wizard spends the spell slot at the time of the ready and can lose the spell if he doesn't make concentration check if he takes damage.

[gqwebb]

Hard core, you must wear out the magic users in the first encounter. Bugbears are the controller so the have some brains, but I dont give them that much. Say a difficult perception check. It's your tpk ...

[Zacchaeus]

Whilst it may cause some metagaming (and I see nothing wrong with metagaming) I almost never see the Ready action used. You just lose too much (extra attacks and bonus actions) to make Ready a worthwhile mechanic.

[Baron28]

gqwebb, so are you suggesting a DC 15 Wisdom (perception) check?

Zacchaeus

To provide some background, the players sitting at my table on average have 20-30+ years of D&D experience. They are very adept at combat tactics on a grid and so I see the ready action employed quite a bit in my games, particularly by the Rogue who is dependent on either getting combat advantage or having a comrade within five feet of the target to get sneak attack. Spell casters like to ready a AOE spells for when creatures clump together. Also, when in doubt, my players will either take the Dodge action or they will take the Ready action. The table has seen combat flow more smoothly since there are situations where your character may not be sure what to do. Taking the Dodge or Ready action is realistic.

[kylania]

You method sounds much more meta gameable than the default readied action. Rules As Written says you have to declare the trigger and the action to be taken upfront. Then when the trigger goes off you can react to it with your declared action or ignore the trigger. If you ignore the trigger or the trigger never happens you do nothing all round. If you were casting a spell you cast it normally on your turn, but hold the spell energy/effect using Concentration till you react to your trigger. If you're damaged enough or get your concentration broken or ignore the trigger the spell is wasted.

Letting someone say "I'm reading an action" but not revealing it till it triggers is totally gameable though.

So in your example your Wizard should have said "I'm readying fireball spell but waiting for the Bugbears to get into melee with the Fighter, sculpting the spell to protect my friend from it's effects, before hitting them with it!" and casting fireball.

The Bugbear would see the wizard cast the spell and hold a little ball of flame in his hands looking towards the Fighter and might use the DC 10 Wisdom check to determine the intent of the Wizard and call off the attack, wasting the cast fireball spell since the trigger never happened.

Using the "only state the trigger" method instead of wasting the fireball spell the Wizard player might say "Oh I was going to cast a cantrip" on the DC 12 success instead of losing his big attack. I love the idea of intelligent creatures trying to see through ready actions to prevent their triggers but I think the rules are already clear enough and risky enough to avoid abuse.

[Zacchaeus]

Yes, I agree with kylania. As written the rules are extremely specific about what the character can ready and they give up everything to do so. A fighter would have to say I am going to ready an action to hit that Bugbear when he comes near enough. The fighter is then giving up his bonus action and any extra attacks he might have and all of his movement and his reaction on the off chance that the Bugbear is going to come close. As DM in a situation like that I'd say don't move the Bugbear near the fighter.

And, yes the Wizard has to have the actual spell cast and ready, so I'd make her a target for any range attacks to interrupt the casting.

I'm not sure about the rogue either. He can't ready an action which involves moving and attacking so if he isn't already in contact with the enemy when he readies it's not going to make any difference how many of his allies are in contact with the NPCs. Furthermore he is giving up Cunning Action and Uncanny Dodge to name but two massive abilities.

I stick to my guns here, readying an action is horrible. :)

But...

As kylania says though this is RAW, and you are perfectly entitled to relax this if you and your players enjoy play like that.

[jshauber]

I don't have a problem with readied actions, but have found that they are used way to often in combat if the players always know what to expect.

Therefore I have taken to not displaying the initiative AND rolling new INITs at the start of every round. Gives combat a much more chaotic feel as you never know when you are acting or who might be acting before you. Plus, I think this is much more realistic (in a fantasy game LOL) as it avoids the OK Mr. Fighter I will stand here until you hit me and then I will do my thing before your wizardy guy gets to blast off a spell, then my 2 friends will take their turn.

[jajen2003]

As a DM, I've allowed my creatures to take readied actions. Such a mind f**k for players. They don't like it when it's done back to them. And since the PCs try to interrupt the creatures RA, I allow creatures to attempt to interrupt their RA.

When my players rely on their character sheets too much, I attempt to inspire them to think out of the box, by showing them the monsters can shove them aside, knock them prone, cooperative and aid each other, flank and ready actions. That generally seems to get players out of the box.

I'd say adjust the "notice intention" DC based on how well your player describes his action. If the wizard readies his action discretely, then bump that DC up. If the wizard is being careless and basically taunting the bugbears, then lower the DC and make them behave accordingly. Use the creature's Wis and Int scores to determine if they have enough self preservation to attack the clothie with fire hands and not run into an obvious fire spell.

[jajen2003]

rolling new INITs at the start of every round. Gives combat a much more chaotic feel as you never know when you are acting or who might be acting before you. Plus, I think this is much more realistic (in a fantasy game LOL) as it avoids the OK Mr. Fighter I will stand here until you hit me and then I will do my thing before your wizardy guy gets to blast off a spell, then my 2 friends will take their turn.

Agreed. The CT makes this optional rule variant so easy to implement and doesn't slow down the game at all.

Some of my groups love this. And some hate it.

[whiteTiki]

Baron28:

I agree with what Zacchaeus and Kylania are saying. Basically I don't see reactions as a problem or something that puts the DM in disadvantage against the players when some metagame is done, actually I think of that the other way around. As Zacchaeus said, we must remember here that a character in his turn is able to hit targets or do other stuff when taking his action, a bonus action, probably an extra attack and in sometimes its reaction. The "Ready" action, converts all this just into one reaction with a maximum of just one probable hit. So I really think that the DM benefits (kind of) from players taking reactions all the time.

On the other hand, I didn't know about the FG feature jshauber commented about. I find it really cool and a really good option to apply to your game if you want to solve the problems you're having right now. It also makes everything more dynamic and interesting.

[Baron28]

This is all great feedback so thank you all for chiming in. Just so I understand the Ready Action, the character is using his reaction that is engaged by a trigger. You only get 1 reaction per round. Let's take example, the 6th level fighter says, "I am going to ready an action to hit that Bugbear when he comes near enough." Does that 6th level fighter get 1 attack or 2 attacks? Since the fighter took the ready action for round 1, his turn is complete for round 1 and he may not take any opportunity attacks if any creatures were to run past him.

Also, what if said fighter during round 2, took his turn, 1 action and move and a Bugbear moved out of the fighter's threatening reach, does the fighter get to use his reaction and take an opportunity attack?

What I am trying to understand is...Are there 4 basic components to a character's turn that can be used in any order?

1. Action
2. Move
3. Bonus Action
4. Reaction

[Zacchaeus]

This is all great feedback so thank you all for chiming in. Just so I understand the Ready Action, the character is using his reaction that is engaged by a trigger. You only get 1 reaction per round. Let's take example, the 6th level fighter says, "I am going to ready an action to hit that Bugbear when he comes near enough." Does that 6th level fighter get 1 attack or 2 attacks? Since the fighter took the ready action for round 1, his turn is complete for round 1 and he may not take any opportunity attacks if any creatures were to run past him.

Am I missing something?

He gets one hit and nothing else. As you say his entire action is taken up by Readying. That only leaves him with a reaction and that gets used if the Bugbear comes near him, so he can't then take any opportunity attacks. Since it is a reaction he only gets one hit; he effectively gave up his second attack when he took the Ready action. You only get a second attack when you use the Attack action.

The best economy would be for the fighter to take his move, then his bonus action (bonus action can only be taken on your turn - reactions are taken on another character's turn so you can't have a bonus once your turn is done), and then Ready an action. That way potentially he (only) loses one attack and (potentially) his reaction.

[whiteTiki]

Ok so to clarify a little more, each round you can perform this type of actions and use them only were is indicated here:


Action (Only on your turn)

Attack

Melee Attack
Ranged Attack
Grapple
Shove a Creature (Prone)
Shove a Creature (Push)
Shove Aside (DMG p272 Optional)
Disarm (DMG p271 Optional)

Cast a Spell
Dash
Disengage
Dodge
Help
Hide
Search
Use an Object
Ready (It will convert any Action you choose from the list above to be triggered into a Reaction. The only 2 Actions you cannot choose from the "Actions" list are Disengage and Ready. If you choose the "Attack Action" you should also specify which type of attack you intend to use from the Attack sub-list)


Bonus Action (Only on your Turn)

Melee Attack when Dual Wielding
Multiple Class Specific Actions


Move (Only on your Turn)

Walk (Able to use with Stealth)
Walk with Grappled Creature
Fly (Able to use with Stealth)
Swim (Able to use with Stealth)
Climb (Able to use with Stealth)
Climb onto a Bigger Creature (DMG p271 Optional)
Crawl (Able to use with Stealth)
Long Jump
High Jump
Overrun (DMG p272 Optional)
Tumble (DMG p272 Optional)


Reaction (Not on your turn but on the same round, if the specific circumstances apply <trigger> and can only be taken once each round)

Opportunity Attacks (Only Melee Attacks apply unless you have specific features that indicate otherwise)
Your Chosen Action as a Ready Action
Multiple Class Specific Reactions



Now that we've cleared that out, so where exactly does the "Extra Attack" feature falls in you may ask? Well, lets read what it says:
"Beginning at 5th Level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack Action on your turn."


He gets one hit and nothing else. As you say his entire action is taken up by Readying. That only leaves him with a reaction and that gets used if the Bugbear comes near him, so he can't then take any opportunity attacks. Since it is a reaction he only gets one hit; he effectively gave up his second attack when he took the Ready action. You only get a second attack when you use the Attack action.

So, I quoted Zacchaeus here because he said "you only get a second attack when you use the Attack Action". With this you might think: "well, isn't he using the Attack Action in his reaction when the trigger becomes true?", so: That's the reason why I highlighted "on your turn" in the "Extra Attack" description above. Remember here that "turn" is not the same as "round".

To answer your questions now:

The Fighter only gets 1 melee attack if he used the "Ready" action on his turn and the trigger was triggered.
If the fighter for some reason takes a reaction before the trigger has been triggered then he cannot use his reaction again for his Ready Action taken before, even if the trigger gets triggered in some point after that.
Remember the Extra Attack is exactly that: an Extra Attack, not an extra melee attack or an extra ranged attack. You can actually perform any of the Attack sub-list actions when using the "Extra Attack" feature. That means shoving and grappling too.


Hope you got the answers you were looking for. Cheers!

[Baron28]

Thanks! The clarification is appreciated.