PDA

View Full Version : 7Th Sea Second Edition



hueffmea
March 14th, 2016, 03:27
Is anyone working on making a 7th Sea 2nd ed. for fantasy grounds?

Mask_of_winter
March 14th, 2016, 03:29
Maybe once the books are actually out.

Brenn
July 23rd, 2016, 15:27
I'm currently running it with one remote player. I'll probably eventually do something just to handle the dice and a very rudimentary character sheet, but not a full conversion. However I'm hoping someone beats me to it.

damned
July 23rd, 2016, 16:08
Hi Brenn what are the main dice mechanics?

yako2020
July 24th, 2016, 11:46
7th Sea 2E

He uses D10
- The sum of + Skills Attributes determines the amount of D10 you will roll.
- Every 10 plus guarantees me a success (Raise), as well as all 10 rolled naturally.
Example:
Say I have BRAWN (3) + Weaponry (2) and go attack with my saber, the sum assures me the scroll 5D10
Say this scroll I have obtained the following values ​​10,2,4,10,4 ie got 3 hits (3 Raises)
-Porém If I have the level of expertise in a given 3 can choose to re-roll.
-Porém If I have the level of expertise in 4 with 2 hits every 15 points from the rolls
- But if I have the level of expertise in 5 to 10 naturally rolled in data allows me to blow the dice (roll it again and accumulate the vlor acquired it)
-everything Is cumulative.
Example:
Say BRAWN (4) + Weaponry (5)
2,9,3,9,8,4,4,3,6
9 + 4 + 2 = 15
3 + 9 + 3 = 15
8 + 4 + 4 = 16
ie got 6 Raises and could still rerolar of the data if you want to, and would get a hit with the 10
natural and would explode and a hit with the sums which added values ​​give 10.

Mask_of_winter
July 24th, 2016, 11:56
7th Sea 2E

He uses D10
- The sum of + Skills Attributes determines the amount of D10 you will roll.
- Every 10 plus guarantees me a success (Raise), as well as all 10 rolled naturally.
Example:
Say I have BRAWN (3) + Weaponry (2) and go attack with my saber, the sum assures me the scroll 5D10
Say this scroll I have obtained the following values ​​10,2,4,10,4 ie got 3 hits (3 Raises)
-Porém If I have the level of expertise in a given 3 can choose to re-roll.
-Porém If I have the level of expertise in 4 with 2 hits every 15 points from the rolls
- But if I have the level of expertise in 5 to 10 naturally rolled in data allows me to blow the dice (roll it again and accumulate the vlor acquired it)
-everything Is cumulative.
Example:
Say BRAWN (4) + Weaponry (5)
2,9,3,9,8,4,4,3,6
9 + 4 + 2 = 15
3 + 9 + 3 = 15
8 + 4 + 4 = 16
ie got 6 Raises and could still rerolar of the data if you want to, and would get a hit with the 10
natural and would explode and a hit with the sums which added values ​​give 10.

Sounds complicated lol

damned
July 24th, 2016, 12:54
Unfortunately yako2020 I think some of that got lost in translation...

yako2020
July 24th, 2016, 15:25
7th Sea uses 10-sided disse to help arbitrate the success of most actions the characters take. Whenever there is an uncertain outcome for an action, the GM tells the players to roll a handful of dice, add up the numbers, and tell her the result. This total determines the degree of success or failure.
• At 3 Ranks, you gain the ability to reroll any single die when you take a Risk using that Skill
• At 4 Ranks, you gain the ability to earn 2 Raises per set by creating sets of 15, rather than only 1 Raise per set for creating a set of 10.
• At 5 Ranks, all dice that roll a 10 explode, allowing you to roll an additional die and add it to your total.

Better?

yako2020
July 24th, 2016, 19:50
This was maked using photoshop, because I don´t know programing

14809 14810

damned
July 25th, 2016, 00:02
So (excluding Death Spiral) you roll either:
10d10
15d10
15d10 and explode the 10s?
What is a success?

yako2020
July 25th, 2016, 00:44
Say images sent before would be a blank sheet.
Say this new image is that of a character created, some fields were not filled because I lack knowledge yet.


14812 14813

Let the examples:
Let's say it's crucial I see a lever in the room that will open a secret passage.
Then I check my Decides that is 2 and my Perica Notice which is 3, meaning I roll 5D10.
Say I have obtained the following values in the roll of the dice:
5,3,7,6,5 ie got 2 Raises (5+5)=10, (7+3)=10 and 6 was left but as I rank 3 in Notice I
roll the dice you want again, if the data will be re-roll with value 6
Say this re-roll I've got 10, or had a success the most, i'm with 3 Raises.

damned
July 25th, 2016, 03:36
7th Sea uses 10-sided disse to help arbitrate the success of most actions the characters take. Whenever there is an uncertain outcome for an action, the GM tells the players to roll a handful of dice, add up the numbers, and tell her the result. This total determines the degree of success or failure.
• At 3 Ranks, you gain the ability to reroll any single die when you take a Risk using that Skill
• At 4 Ranks, you gain the ability to earn 2 Raises per set by creating sets of 15, rather than only 1 Raise per set for creating a set of 10.
• At 5 Ranks, all dice that roll a 10 explode, allowing you to roll an additional die and add it to your total.

Better?



Let the examples:
Let's say it's crucial I see a lever in the room that will open a secret passage.
Then I check my Decides that is 2 and my Perica Notice which is 3, meaning I roll 5D10.
Say I have obtained the following values in the roll of the dice:
5,3,7,6,5 ie got 2 Raises (5+5)=10, (7+3)=10 and 6 was left but as I rank 3 in Notice I
roll the dice you want again, if the data will be re-roll with value 6
Say this re-roll I've got 10, or had a success the most, i'm with 3 Raises.

Thank you for your persistence yako2020

What result constitutes a raise?
Is it when 2 (or more? what about a straight 10?) dice sum is 10?
If you rolled 10,9,6,5,1+(reroll)2 is that 2 raises (10, 9+1), 1 Raise (9+1) or 4 Raises or 3 Raises (10, 9+1, 9+1+5)?
How many Raises constitute a success?
Counting to 15 can only happen if you have 4 ranks in a skill or is it combined skills?
Exploding 10s can only happen if you have 5 ranks in a skill or is it combined skills?

yako2020
July 25th, 2016, 04:12
With skill to level 3, you need to sum 10 to the dice.
With skill at level 3 you can re-roll a dice.
With skill in level 4 you get 2 Raises adding 15 in the dice and 1 Raise adding 10 and is entitled to re-roll a dice.
With skill in level 5 you explode as they go out with the value 10 (re-roll it again), get 1 Raise the sum of 10, and 02 Raises the sum of 15 and still can re-roll a dice. if you want.
The dice have the following values 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 zero represents the 10 and Raises are achieved by sum 10 or 15 depending on the level of your expertise.
Yes the sum of 15 only at Rank 4 in the skill rolled
Yes the dice explode only at Rank 5 in the skill rolled

damned
July 25th, 2016, 04:19
And what is termed a success? Is gaining any single Raise a success? Are the results of one or more raises then up to the GM/Player to determine what happens? Eg 1 Raise is a success at some cost? 3 Raises is a might success? 5 Raises and even the gods will acquiesce to your actions?
What is a failure?

yako2020
July 25th, 2016, 04:26
I sent you a PM.
The GM determines how many success you must have to be able to complete the scene
Not get any success is a failure.

yako2020
July 25th, 2016, 04:31
Let´s say more Raises equals to more actions in a scene with the book all will be more clear to you Damned :D

sjard
July 28th, 2016, 17:05
So it looks like it's pretty much the same R&K system from 7th Sea 1st edition and the L5R games? Maybe slightly modified?

damned
July 29th, 2016, 11:03
yako2020 do they always have the same skills as these or are there others?

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14812&d=1469402823

What about backgrounds and arcana? How are these used mechanically?

yako2020
July 31st, 2016, 00:20
You can choose 2 backgrounds, these backrounds gives 1 point in the skill listed and two advantages
The arcana lets say it is a personality of the character
The heroes points I need understand :(

yako2020
July 31st, 2016, 02:57
The Skills listed are the same in all games, they are on the character sheets

Stx11
August 1st, 2016, 18:23
So it looks like it's pretty much the same R&K system from 7th Sea 1st edition and the L5R games? Maybe slightly modified?

It is similar but definitely a modified system. You no longer add all the dice together to generate a sum total.

Instead you group the rolled dice pool into totals of 10 or greater. If you have 4 Ranks in a Skill sums of 15 grant 2 Raises (but Sums of 10 still grant a single Raise too)

Example 1:
Finesse 3/Ride 2 - 10, 3, 2, 6, 7
Leads to 2 Raises (10, 7+3) with the last two dice (6 and 2) not contributing to success

Example 2:
Panache 3/Convince 4 - 10, 6, 7, 2, 9, 4, 1
First the player re-rolls the 1 (Can re-roll a Die with a Rank 3 Skill) and gets a 5
Next the player groups them for 5 Raises (10+5 for 2 Raises, 7+6+2 for 2 Raises, 9+4 for a Raise)

In Second Edition, Actions and Tasks can have a variety of outcomes with Raises used as the "Currency" to achieve them.

Tasks can be complex beasts with a certain base number of Raises needed for "basic success" and other Raises used for avoiding damage or complications as well as taking advantage of fortuitous opportunities.

For example, a single Raise might let you accomplish your task (running across a burning ship's deck). 2 Raises are used to avoid taking damage from falling debris. A fourth Raise is used to describe you sliding under the swinging mast, picking up a cutlass lying on the deck as you do it.

I can see the Dice System being challenging to implement in FG. With the resolution process involving choice, multiple outcomes, and narrative improvisation, I see it just being best handled by GMs and Players without automation.

Mechaman
August 28th, 2016, 04:52
I can see the Dice System being challenging to implement in FG. With the resolution process involving choice, multiple outcomes, and narrative improvisation, I see it just being best handled by GMs and Players without automation.

I think if someone can implement, even as simply an 'extension', you can eliminate most of the work needed in a single or maybe three similar command rolls. I'm not great with code, but I think I can see the pseudocode here, assuming this can be done with current arrays. I think for most purposes, the most initial dice rolled would be 10. The modifiers, based off of the skill options would be entered after the roll. Basic example, using maximum skill:

7throll 5 5 (1): Breaking down the pseudocommand, the command 7throll then modifiers trait, skill, legendary trait. (Legendary traits are dice that are not rolled but are preset to 10 and DO explode if they would normally). I debated using xd10 and then modifiers, but the modifiers are baked in to the skill. There may be circumstances that allow the abilities without, so it may better. The idea here is for common usage, not perfection of the edge cases.

So in this case, the command checks the second variable, and presets behavior based on if the value is above 2 and by how much. If 5+, exploding 10s, 15 = 2 ranks, reroll one die.

Step One: Initial dice array

So the command would need an array built of variable 1 + 2, 10 for this example.

Example array: 3 2 10 10 6 9 3 8 10 2

Step Two: Legendary Traits

Now while we've got a full dice array above, some of those don't exist yet, really because of Legendary Traits, ones that are 'always' 10s. In the command above, we've got one, so the array changes to this:

Example array: 10 2 10 10 6 9 3 8 10 2

Step Three: Explosion Management

I'm sure people have done the recursion management for exploding dice before, likely using temporary arrays, but I'm not quite sure the details they would use, so I'm 'merely' blackboxing the example. This step HAS to be done after the legendary trait substitution, though, as they do count for explosion purposes.

Example array: 10 2 10 10 6 9 3 8 10 2
Secondary array: 1 3 5 7
=
Example array: 10 2 10 10 6 9 3 8 10 2 1 3 5 7

Step Four: "Sort Fifteens"

This is actually cleaner than it could be, mostly due to diminishing returns, I THINK.

The first sort would be going through the array to find 2 dice matches for sums of 15 for 5 through 10. In other words, walk the array for those dice and find their counterpart. Why those specific is simply you could only get a 15 on two dice from a span of 5-10, so 1-4 aren't necessary for this step. After sorting, removing the sorted dice and adding to the raise tally. This is probably not good practice, but in this example, I'm using 0 to represent 'removed' dice.

Example array: 10 2 10 10 6 9 3 8 10 2 1 3 5 7
Sorted Array: (10 5) 2 10 10 (6 9) 3 (8 7) 2 10 1 3 Sorted Tally: 6

Example Array: 0 2 10 10 0 0 3 0 2 10 1 3 0 0 Sorted Tally: 6

Step Five: "Sort Tens"

Check the Array for remaining 10s and 2 dice ten combinations

Example Array: 0 2 10 10 0 0 3 0 2 10 1 3 0 0 Sorted Tally: 6
Sorted Array: 0 2 (10) (10) 0 0 3 0 2 (10) 1 3 0 0 Sorted Tally: 9

Example Array: 0 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 2 0 1 3 0 0 Sorted Tally: 9


Step Six: Reroll and Remainders

This is where it may be more difficult than I think in dice theory, but in most cases I don't think you'll have more than a variance between 10-20 in what's left. Except we also still have a reroll die to deal with. Which probably gets a mini case of its own. There's very little reason for it ever to not be rolled on the lowest (I can think of reasons people might gamble on the tabletop with it, but I can't think of it being practical in the changes.) I may be way off, and I'm quite willing to admit it if I am, but I would think for at least an automated roll, rerolling a lowest die would be almost always the case:

Example Array: 0 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 2 0 1 3 0 0 Current Total: 10 Sorted Tally: 9
Lowest Die: 1 Rerolled: 7
Example Array: 0 2 0 0 0 0 3 0 2 0 7 3 0 0 Current Total: 16 Sorted Tally: 11

The biggest issue here, and I'm not sure if rerolls are allowed to explode, is if one does, adding back into the pool. But unless I'm missing something here, I think that method at least covers 90-95% of the dice rolls for 7th Sea 2nd. There'd still be fudging needed, but maybe(?) it'd be useful for players and GMs to help streamline?

i3ullseye
November 3rd, 2016, 00:31
Wanted to clear something up here, and maybe simplify life, because this is one ruleset I would love to see explored.

This is NOT a roll and keep system. You do not normally roll when performing an action. Here is the easiest way to view the system.

7th Sea 2nd Ed... is a Diceless RPG. Thats right, it is diceless.....

But, to apply the element of lady luck, the amount of stones, or successes, or raises... whatever you want to call them, is randomly generated at the BEGINNING of a SCENE. You then have those resources to use throughout that scene. Normally, as stated above, you roll your dice (combination of Skill and Raw Attribute), and look for 10's. However, you must use whole dice to create those 10's. And in some cases, create 2 'raises' on a 15. But once created, you are done until that scene ends, and the GM asks for another roll to start another scene.

So, a system to roll this, and generate stones or action points or something would be great. Also, the system uses a currency for players and the GM to influence these rolls for good or bad. At my tabletop games, the way i would run it is to use glass beads for the raises... so roll, then take that many from a pile that you get to use for the remainder of that scene. And then the other currency I would use either poker chips, or a golden doubloon of some sort, to represent the good/bad luck element.

Visualizing it that way may make it a bit simpler. And that being said, a total rule conversion would just be this custom roll, then turning it into stones or chips or something to use within the interface.

damned
November 3rd, 2016, 01:25
You will probably be able to do something like this in MoreCore shortly...
Do the /rnk roll (which you will be able t do from your char sheet and store the result in Hero Points (rename them to whatever you want - action points, stones, raises) and then click them to use them through the course of the scene...

jrh18
September 2nd, 2017, 19:54
Did what you talked about Damned ever get added to More Core? I have been interested in trying my hand at creating a ruleset (not sure why, but it is an itch I seem to want to scratch). It looks like either 7th Sea 2nd ed or OpenRPG may be good options to create a ruleset for.

I love 7th sea so if this is something that would be useful to this community and no one has started something I would be willing to try, unless you think More core can handle everything in 7th sea.

My background is programming, so I understand XML, haven't tried LUA, but willing to learn. I haven't coded more than random hobby projects in years as I have moved on in my professional career into product management.

I am also wondering (after starting to read the ruleset dev guide) if More Core is a good ruleset to just start with an begin modifying to end up with a 7th sea or OpenRPG separate ruleset. I wanted to start off small with say a custom character sheet, then work on the roll rules and learn how to do that from the dev guide.