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Grumph
April 29th, 2005, 21:26
I have been GMing for many years (real life) and have purchased the full FG license as I can see some advantages in virtual online gaming. However, my curent group of players are somewhat sceptical about virtual gaming.

I would like to know from GM's and players, who have experience with both real life and virtual gaming, what concrete advantages and disadvantages FG virtual gaming offers compared to real life gaming and if possible how to minimize the potential disadvantages.

Grumph

gurney9999
April 29th, 2005, 22:56
Pacing is something you will have to get used to. Things happen slower when playing online. Supplement with a voice chat program to make things flow better if you need to.

Role-playing for some is even easier online, since you cannot be seen. I know some who refuse to play "in character" in person but who are very good at it when they know no one is watching them.

Establish guidelines around your chatting. People tend to step on each other and conversations overlap because of typing time... part of your GM duties deal with controlling the action so it is easy to understand what is going on, especially during combat.

Have players use the function keys to save repeatable chat lines... it makes things flow smoother when you see those actions pop up in the chat, lessening confusion. "I attack my closest enemy with my long sword." immediately popping into the chat window instead of waiting for the person to type it out is very helpful in keeping things moving.

Ilwan
April 29th, 2005, 23:30
I run a campaign with my real life gaming group. We were also somewhat sceptical before we started. Here is what we have experienced during the last 5 months.

Advantages:

- The game has become very fluent, cuz we play each week. No need to introduce or remind where we stopped, its always fresh in mind. Long-term campaign always lasted years before, now we are able to close our first campaign in less than half a year.

- Players have mentioned that NPC are more realistic / more trustworthy. I have been GM for them for about 10 years and every NPC always has my voice and my bodylanguage. In FG its: "Amber: well met y lord".

- More ingame play. OOC jokes and comment are rarer. That is a advantage most of the time, but when its a really good joke, its a disadvantage laughing for yourselves in front of a screen.

- The most obvious advantage is gaming even if members are working overseas. We have a group member in Greenland atm.

- Player interaction: We had a tremendous argument between a Paladin and two other characters. The argument lasted about 2 hours and became very harsh. The players are very good roleplayers, but I doubt they could have done it equally good in RL play, if they had to look in each others eyes and keep up appeareances. After the argument, both sides laughed with no hard feelings, and they agreed on how great the arguement had been.

- Player-GM Interaction: can take place in absolut secret if /whisper command is used. Make playing a rogue more fun, especially in company with the Paladin mentioned above.

- Fast combat if you have prepared the quickslot nicely with macros and combat outcomings.

- Fast access to basic rules as monsters, spells, classes, etc. unfortunatly some of these like basic equipment are not included. As a GM I use the spells as "coins" on the screen, which is very helpful.

Disadvantages:

- Social: Well it cant be compared to sit together with friend around a table, sharing drinks and popcorn. It is a social activity, but the RPG is the thing that drives RPG with FG, when its as much the social aspect in RL.

- Bugs: it still happens that connection are lost, players can read their own text until re-logging, dice become awkward etc. That is not a huge problem, but it can pull you out of context in middle of a game. (our experience, might be 100% stable in other groups).

Entering the fantasy: I usually get into the mood of a fantasy world rather fast, but virtual gaming takes a little longer to dive (almost) completely into the world of imagination. When I do, it can go very fast to loose it again. Here an example:
I am describing the Slavelords main chamber very carefully trying to build a special mood of his wealth and arrogance. While I describe him and his dancers, I am preparing to let the music be louder and one of the dancers is about to draw her poisonous dagger to thrust at the PC she is flirting with. While I try to get the PC blinded by the dance and the beauty of the dancer one of the other players say: "damn, I my scrollbutton doesnt work, Ill have to restart, BRB" - ZAAAAAAP - I was never got the back to the mood in that scene. It can happen in RL, but much less with eye contact and bodylanguage telling the other to be silent.

- Sometimes explaining things can be confusing in written text, especially when you are improvising. Details can be lost.

- GM activity: The GM is constantly writing. My group has been very calm waiting for me to finish and give me a break avery now and then, but under the line I am typing 24/7 during play. Players can always take a few minutes off, without announcing it.

- ingame speed is slightly reduced, although I would have thought it to be much more.


All in all, we are very happy about FG. Most fun is too run FG for a few weeks and then meet in RL continuing the game, then continue in FG.
All players are satisfied although they were sceptic in the beginning.

kalmarjan
April 30th, 2005, 04:53
Lovin it!
The pace is slow, yes, and combat can take a while as a DM, but only if you need to do things on the Fly. If you do your homework, like the macro slots, there is no problem.
Also, you can play some music in the background to get the fantasy feel, and as loud as it permits. (Or your neighbors will tolerate) and ot does not affect narration. (Negatively that is.)

Also, while being on the internet anyways, it is easy to come up with props on the fly if you are quick. Ask my players when I have introduced a menu straight off the internet as an image for my players. Caused a good laugh, and great roleplaying too.

As for cons, the hardest part is keeping players. So far I am lucky to have some core players.... but for the drop ins.... well, it makes for interesting roleplaying explaining how that wizard just "drops" into the dungeon.

Also, the real benifit I can see as a gm vs RL Play is the ability to edit what you are saying before you say it.
Try erasing your conversation in RL play, and you will see what I mean.
Makes it easier for the players to understand... we all as gms know what is like to mess up a description and realize it right in the middle of something important... (Do over guys? No? Dang!)

Anyway, just my .02 GP

Sandeman

Grumph
April 30th, 2005, 08:55
Thanks for the replies, they have been most helpful in planning my first virtual session with my players. :D

Grumph

Grumph
April 30th, 2005, 09:25
Hi Ilwan (and fellow Dane)

Would you be able to elaborate on how you run fast combat sessions, using macros, outcomes, pointers. Would you be able to provide a sample from a campaign logo with a combat session, which shows how things are run.

Thanks in advance.

Grumph

Ilwan
May 1st, 2005, 13:17
Hi Grumph (the fellow dane)

Though I live in Denmark, I originally come from Germany and me and my group play in german. If you still want the log I can look for it. Here some examples of the quickslots I as GM use for combat (I assume every player has all his weapons / spells ready in quickslots also)

1st.

F1 Your Attack Fails
F2 A Hit, Roll Damage
F3 Your Weapons Hits Your Opponent
F4 A Skillful Strike At Your Enemy
F5 A Direct Hit! Roll Crititical Damage
F6 Your Enemy Strikes At You And Hits Armor Class: (x)
F7 The Opponent Attacks You At Armor Class: (x)
F8 You Suffer Injury, Damage: (x)
F9 You Are Hit By Your Enemy For Damage: (x)
F10 Roll Saving Throw: Fortitude
F11 Roll Saving Throw: Reflex
F12 Roll Saving Throw: Will

2nd.

F1 ----INITIATIVE----
F2 The Action Is Successful
F3 The Action Fails
F4 The Enemy Is Wounded
F5 The Enemy Drops To The Ground And Dies
F6 Fight Defensively (MOD)
F7 Flanking (MOD)
F8 Range Attack
F9 Point Blank Shot (MOD)
F10 Second Attack
F11 A Fumble, Roll ST: Reflex
F12 ---END OF TURN---

3rd. (according to level of the group, the value will be higher)

F1 ATT ROLL+0
F2 ATT ROLL+1
F3 ATT ROLL+2
F4 ATT ROLL+3
F5 ATT ROLL+4
F6 ATT ROLL+5
F7 DMG 1D6
F8 DMG 1D6+1
F9 DMG 1D6+2
F10 DMG 1D8
F11 DMG 1D8+1
F12 DMG 1D8+2

The other quickslot I use for gaming stuff like skills, equipment, spell lists and tokens.

When you get used to the quickslot, combat can be done very fast, especially when you are trained at clicking without looking. I dont use the qucikslots in every combat, at some commands are monotonous. For the big guy, at the end of the game, I dont use them very much, but for the orcs guarding his halls they are very useful.

Grumph
May 2nd, 2005, 21:54
Hi Ilwan,

Thanks for your description on the real vs. online gaming and your use of quickslots (great info for me and many others I presume). Even though I'm a Dane I have been living in Germany (many years ago) so I should be able to read a slice of your combat log. As your appear to be an experienced FG GM you combat log could probably give some insight to maintain a flow and pace in a combat situation.

All in all it is very encouraging to know that combat actually can be speeded up compared to real gaming.

Thanks in advance

Grumph

gurney9999
May 3rd, 2005, 14:35
Thanks Ilwan... as a new FG DM the lightbulb hit when I saw how extensively you were using your function slots.

richvalle
May 3rd, 2005, 14:45
Thanks Ilwan... as a new FG DM the lightbulb hit when I saw how extensively you were using your function slots.

Someone else had a post a while back about how they setup their buttons setup and it was quite nice. I think it was Bagpuss. I can try to find the post if you like.

rv

gurney9999
May 3rd, 2005, 17:40
Yeah real life application of any tool is always helpful for me. :)

Ilwan
May 3rd, 2005, 19:05
Here is an example of a rather intense combat in our german group. Its the best I could find i a nearly never ending chatlog (16 sessions or so).



GM: ====I N I T I A T I V E====
Hobart: Gehe mit Mustaine.
GM: [1d20+3 = 11]
Hobart: Initiative [1d20 = 12]
Mustaine: Initiative [1d20 = 16]
GM: [1d20+6 = 13]
GM: Freddy
Friedrich: Initiative [1d20 = 1]
GM: Mustasine ist dran
Friedrich: sloww
Mustaine
Mustaine (Mustaine): wie weit bin ich weg
Mustaine (Mustaine): von ihnen
GM: kansst in der selben Runde in Nahkampf, bloss die Stein uber die Furt koennten glatt sein
Mustaine (Mustaine): merke ich das sie angst vor der fackel haben
GM: sieht keinesweg danach aus
Campaign saved.
GM: weiss ich nicht
Mustaine: ich warte das sie rüberkommen
Hobart: abwartende attacke...
GM: gut Kara ist dran
Hobart: (rufend) Schiess kara schiess!!
GM: Longbow [1d20+5 = 23]
GM: Longbow [23]
GM: Ein Treffer
GM: [1d8 = 5]
GM: [5]
GM: er trifft gut, Hobart ist dran
Hobart: Hold ini
Hobart: Plazier mich
GM: gut die Wesen kommen auf euch zu
GM: der eine geht oben die furte und an der Wand laengs
GM: Mustaine
GM: schlag zu
Mustaine: Warhammer [1d20+8 = 26]
GM: Ein geschickter Angriff - Volltreffer
Mustaine: Str bonus [1d8+3 = 10]
GM: ein satter schlag trifft das Wesen und es jault auf
Hobart: Greife an und locke sie danach nach hinten damit die anderen flanken können.
Hobart: Battleaxe [1d20+8 = 18]
GM: treffer
Hobart: Str bonus [1d8+4 = 9]
GM: die Neogis sind dran
GM: Die Attacke des Gegners trifft einen (AC):
GM: [1d20+7 = 21]
GM: [1d6-2 = 1]
GM: Saving Throw gegen Fortitude (zwergen bonus gegen gift)
Hobart (Hobart): +2 gegen gift dazu mustaine
Hobart: ne ne 1 hit point schaden und +10 auf dein fortitude wurf
GM: also 10
Friedrich: ich bin noch da
Mustaine: [1d20+10 = 23]
Friedrich: Wo ist unser gruftführer?
GM: gut Neogi auf Hobart
GM: [1d20+7 = 26]
GM: [26]
Hobart: komm an du Vieh !!
Hobart: aua
GM: [1d6-2 = 3]
GM: [3]
GM: ST Fortitude
Hobart: Fort. save +8, zwergen bonus gegen gift +2 [1d20+10 = 30]
GM: wow
Hobart: h eh eh e
Friedrich: hehehe
Mustaine: schönes ding
GM: so alle mal ST gegen will
Hobart: zwergenpower hab ich ja gesagt kara
(Friedrich): Immun für immer !!
so alle mal ST gegen will
Campaign saved.
das glewich mit will
Hobart (Hobart): das ist gleich schlimmer :(
GM: jau
Hobart: Will save [1d20+1 = 5]
Friedrich: Will save [1d20+5 = 6]
Mustaine: 8d?
GM: d 20
Mustaine: [3]
GM: +1
Mustaine: [1d20+1 = 18]
GM: huch
GM: [1d20 = 8]
GM: gut Freddy ist dran
-> Hobart: eine innere Stimme pfluestert aud dich ein
Friedrich: Ich hab auf Will einen fumble gewürelt
-> Friedrich: eine innere Stimme pfluestert aud dich ein
(Friedrich): Ich hab auf Will einen fumble gewürelt
GM: egal
GM: ersma
Hobart: ja und was sagt sie?
Friedrich: Ich schiesse
Friedrich: Ich schiesse
Friedrich: Crossbow [1d20+4 = 15]
-> Hobart: töte deinen Bruder
GM: daneben
GM: gut Mustaine ist dran
Hobart: (murmelnd) Meinen Bruder? Ich hab doch gar kein Bruder.
Mustaine: Warhammer [1d20+8 = 9]
GM: daneben
GM: Kara
GM: [1d20+6 = 15]
GM: danenben
GM: Honbart setzt aus
GM: [1d4 = 1]
Erik Heyer (Friedrich): alles bestens
GM: Neogis sind dran
GM: [1d20+7 = 25]
GM: [25]
GM: trffer auf mustaine
GM: [1d6-2 = 0]
GM: [0]
GM: schaden
Campaign saved.
GM: Save gegen posion
-> Friedrich: toete den bogenschuetzen
Mustaine: [1d20+10 = 27]
GM: Freidrich setzt aus
Friedrich: AAAHHHHHHHH
Hobart: war das ein command der mich zwingt etwas zu tun? Oder einfach nur eine Stimme die herumspuckt?
GM: Mustaine
Mustaine: Warhammer [1d20+8 = 18]
-> Hobart: ein command der ab diese runde aktiv ist
GM: treffer
Mustaine: Str bonus [1d8+3 = 6]
GM: ja
GM: Karasanthas
GM: [1d20+5 = 24]
GM: [24]
GM: [1d8 = 1]
GM: [1]
GM: streifschuss leider
GM: Hobart
Hobart
-> Hobart: greif Mustaine an
Hobart: Ich wende mich den Monstern ab und greife urplötzlich Mustaine an. Ich muss meinen Bruder töten. Ich muss meinen Bruder töten.
Hobart: Battleaxe [1d20+8 = 28]
GM: VOLLTREFFER
Hobart: neinnnnnn!!!!!!!
Grimur (GM): woooot
Hobart (Hobart): neinnnnnn!!!!!!!
Mustaine: WAASS?
GM: critical
Hobart: Str bonus [3d8+4 = 21]
GM: eh heh eh he
GM: Str bonus [21]
GM: 21 Schaden
Hobart (Hobart): übel
GM: die Ruestung ist hinne (nach dem Kampf)
Mustaine (Mustaine): nicht nett
GM: Neogi sind dran
GM: auf Maustaine
GM: 2 mal
GM: [1d20+7 = 14]
GM: [14]
Grimur (GM): treffer oder nicht?
GM: ac 14
Mustaine (Mustaine): was soll ich machen?
GM: welche armor class hast du
Mustaine: 15
GM: dann knapp daneben
Erik Heyer (Friedrich): Lebst du noch ??
GM: der 2,.
GM: [1d20+7 = 23]
GM: [23]
Mustaine: ja
GM: treffer
GM: [1d6-2 = -1]
GM: [-1]
GM: nix schaden aber saveing throw (und bete die Zwergen goetter an)
Hobart (Hobart): du heilst 1 hit point
Mustaine (Mustaine): kann ich jetzt ein abziehen :)
GM: nope nix HP
Hobart (Hobart): Moradin steh uns bei
Mustaine: [1d20+10 = 27]
GM: Ein geschickter Angriff - Volltreffer
GM: pfffffeeeeeew
Mustaine: kann ich den einen angreifen wegen cleave
GM: Freddy
(Friedrich): du musst erst attack roll machen
GM: greif Kara an
Friedrich: Werfe die Armbrust von mir und reisse gewaltvoll mein Schwert aus der Scheide
GM: +2 flank
Hobart (Hobart): he he
(Friedrich): Kann ich das in dieser runde ?
GM: ja
Mustaine (Mustaine): ihr seit nicht nett
Hobart (Hobart): wir wollen den schatz halt für uns ;)
Friedrich: Longsword +7, Power Attack -3, Charge +2 [1d20+6 = 10]
GM: daneben
GM: Mustaine ist dran
(Friedrich): Huj , glück gehabt
Mustaine: ja was soll ich machen ich greife weiter den 1. an
GM: ok
Mustaine: Warhammer [1d20+8 = 25]
Campaign saved.
GM: Treffer
Mustaine: Str bonus [1d8+3 = 10]
GM: Dein Gegner fällt zu Boden und stirbt
GM: CLEAVE
Mustaine (Mustaine): yes
GM: Freidrichs FLuch loesst sich
Mustaine: greife den nächsten an
Grimur (GM): jau
Mustaine: Warhammer [1d20+8 = 24]
GM: Treffer
Friedrich: Wow,
Mustaine: Str bonus [1d8+3 = 10]
GM: Dein Gegner fällt zu Boden und stirbt
GM: Hobat Fluch loesst sich
Mustaine: muss ich alles alleine machen
es kehrt kurze ruhe ein
Grimur (GM): lol
(Friedrich): Wow - power dwarf !!
Hobart: was war das. Es tut mir so leid Mustaine, aber ich glaube ich wurde verhext. Kannst du mir verzeihen?
Mustaine: breche erstmal zusammen
Hobart: Die Wunde sieht sehr schlimm aus. Hier nimm diesen Heiltrank.
Friedrich: Gehe entsetzt zurück, werfe angewiedert das schwert auf den Boden
Hobart: reiche mustaine heitrank
Friedrich: Gehe entsetzt zurück, werfe angewiedert das schwert auf den Boden
GM: die Ruestung von Mustaine, fällt in sich hinerin und die Ringe der Kettenruestung purzeln den Ruecken runter
GM: Blut stroemt aus dem Reucken
Friedrich: Schaue Kara an ohne Worte bilden zu können

Hope you can use it Grumph

richvalle
May 3rd, 2005, 19:11
Yeah real life application of any tool is always helpful for me. :)

Man, that was harder to find then nI thought it would be. At least I had the autor right...

Near the bottom of the first page. There might be more on page 2.

https://forums.fantasygrounds.com/viewtopic.php?t=459&highlight=quick+slots

rv

Grumph
May 3rd, 2005, 22:26
Thanks Ilwan,

Your combat log fits the bill.

Regards

Grumph

kalmarjan
May 3rd, 2005, 22:32
Good use of the buttons, but my german is rusty... (If you count being able to say ein, zswi drie as such... okay, not spelling, but saying I guess.)

Is there anyone with a posting of the chatlogs with the fuction keys in english... (Or french for that matter?)

When you do the quickslots, do you use say the cnrl key then click, or is it ctrl + f2?

This could make my life easier....
Sandeman