New to FG - Wanting to DM a 5e campaign - What all do I/my players NEED? [Archive]

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Implacable

March 4th, 2016, 02:25

I apologize for posting a purchasing question here, but since it's rather specific to 5e I thought it was appropriate.

Let me try to summarize as briefly as I can.

I recently moved and am looking to DM a game with some friends who live across the country, and since in-person is no longer an option, I stumbled upon FG.

Thus far I have started the 30 day 9.99 "Ultimate" subscription trial to test the software. High learning curve, but definitely powerful software!

The fact of the matter is, the 'DLC' options are staggering and quite confusing, as many seem to overlap or require each other but seemingly do the same(ish) thing?

My budget can accommodate the monthly subscription, and I could probably wrangle a few of the very basic items out of pocket. Budget probably of 20-30 dollars max for the initial 'testing the waters' phase of this campaign and the software with my friends. Don't want to jump in too quickly and regret it. (no offense. ;))

My campaign will begin with the characters at level 1, no picking it up at higher levels or anything like that.

So a few specific questions:

1) The 'base' Ultimate package comes with the core rules, but... Not the actual PHB? Not the actual DMG?
So - without those two items built in to my FG license early on, how badly is that going to hamstring me as a DM and my players? (they will be using demo licenses to connect to me) Will there be a significant enough amount of unavailable prepopulated information for character creation/spells/feats/etc that it will have a major impact?

2) My basic understanding is that the monster manual is a pretty substantial extra cost. That's out the window for now. But the "base" 9.99 subscription, will it include enough of the basic monsters for a low level adventure to last for several player levels?

3) In addition to the core rules that come with the Ultimate base, it appears that only a few classes are included. Again, the complete class package isn't feasible right now. If I were to ask players to contribute a few bucks to purchase the 'DLC' for the class they chose... Would we be good to go?

4) Tied into #3 - I am very confused about this Character Customization Pack (8.99) -- is this item basically a 100% required purchase? It mentions that it includes information for feats, races, etc. I find it a bit odd (and frustrating, to be honest) that even after purchasing class packs, this customization pack seems to be required to actually make use of those class packs? Is my understanding correct?

5) Lastly - as I mentioned I'll be on Ultimate and my players on Demo - So if I follow the FAQ, this means that in order for my players to create their characters, modify their characters, etc. They will need to do it whilst connected to my game, as they won't 'own' their class packs. So it would be in the best interest of my group for *ME* as the DM to purchase the class packs, customizations, etc and then 'share' them with the players during sessions? Am I understanding correctly that this is the best way to handle a campaign without requiring large 40 dollar investments from each player for a standard license?

- Whew, ok I think that covers it. I apologize for the length. Also, please excuse me if this came off sounding critical of the software or business model. That is not my intention. I can already tell I am going to love it. But to be frank, this part of the process is quite confusing.

I sincerely appreciate any response to these questions.

dulux-oz

March 4th, 2016, 02:50

Hi Implacable, and Welcome! to the Community,

OK, some fanboy stuff first - you won't regret investing in FG, no matter how much or how little you invest, because you'll end up playing way more games then you ever thought possible and have literally 1000s of hours of fun with this fantastic piece of software.

Second, let me encourage you and your players (if you haven't done so already) to check out some of the Tutorial Videos on the Wiki. Damned's are good, as are Xorn's, and people seem to like mine as well (mine are also available from the links in my sig, below). Start with the one on the CoreRPG, because the CoreRPG forms the basis of just about all of the RPGs we play with FG, and by learning how to use FG with the CoreRPG you'll learn about 80% of what you'll need to know to play any RPG with FG.

Now, some terminology (which we find can sometimes lead to confusion): a Ruleset is the computer code use by FG to run a particular RPG. Rulesets contain the mechanics of the RPG, but don't contain anything else - no "fluff", no descriptive text, etc - no data. What we call Modules are the things that contain the data - the details abut monsters, about character classes, about an adventure, about tokens, about anything/everything. You load a Ruleset into FG when you start or load a Campaign, and then you load Modules (if you want) into the campaign during "runtime".

You don't need to use any Modules to play a game, but this means that you'll have to enter the information (the character classes, the monsters, the encounters, etc) manually - or you can purchase this stuff pre-made from the FG Store (the DLC stuff) - or you can pre-make your own for $0 but some time and effort.

So, to answer you specific questions:

1) No, the PHB etc is the fluff - the full and the ultimate license come with the mechanics for 5E and other rpgs, and also the stuff from the relevant SRD (System Reference Documents, published by WotC, etc), but that's it. Also, the only difference between the Ultimate and Full licenses is that the Ultimate license lets you host games for people with the Demo license; the Full license doesn't do this. So this won't hamstring you at all, if you already have the 5E rules (not Ruleset) then you can enter the information in manually yourself.

2) No, any Monsters is "stuff" and not included - see above. But some purchase adventures (modules) do have monsters needed for the adventure, so this might be an option.

3) No, you are getting rules and Ruleset confused - FG comes with the Ruleset for 5E, but not any "stuff" (apart from what's in the SRD, which SW is allowed to include). Yes, a lot of groups just get the class pack for each of the class they want to play, as you suggest - or you can enter the information in manually.

4) No, the Character Customization Pack is not required - none of the Modules are. But they do make things more convenient. Again, you can get this Pack or enter the information in manually.

5) Yes, the players don't have access to any Modules unless they are connected to the host/GM, or they own the Module themselves - so in your case its best to have you own any Modules and have a session at the start of the campaign for character creation.

I hope that's helpe. Feel free to ask more if you need to

Cheers

Griogre

March 4th, 2016, 04:34

Welcome to the boards, Implacable. To follow on dulux-ozs comments.

Another quick analogy between rulesets and modules (DLC). In a face to face game a ruleset in FG would be everything *but* your game books if you were sitting around a table: the battlemap/white board, minis, dice, charactersheets. The modules in FG can be a rulebook like a PH, DMG, MM or they can also be the a premade adventure.

In your case to just get started as a DM I would suggest you get a 5E Adventure DLC (Lost Mines or one of the Adventure Paths). This gives you all of maps, monsters and things you need to run the adventure so you can put off getting a MM and DMG.

Now for the player's you can just roll with what comes free with FG. That is the classes from WotC's basic rules. Or you can ask the players to kick in and give you a PH which would allow all of them to use everything out of the PH in the adventure. The player stuff is more confusing, the Complete Pack is the PH and includes the customization pack. Alternatively you could tell each player to buy the class pack for themselves if they wanted something not in the basic rules and have the gift you a the Customization pack. If you get Lost Mines of Phandelver you also get the pregen characters which were build using the 5E basic rules (which comes for free with FG).

So the fastest and cheapest way to try things out 5E would be to just get the Lost Mines of Phandelver adventure and have the players run the pregens using the basic rules.

If you have more questions, just ask.

Edit: I just wanted to make sure you know that The Lost Mines of Phandelver is the adventure from the 5E starter pack.

damned

March 4th, 2016, 06:49

So the fastest and cheapest way to try things out 5E would be to just get the Lost Mines of Phandelver adventure and have the players run the pregens using the basic rules.

Plus you also have the 5e SRD included now which broadens the scope (but not the detail) of the Basic Rules.

LMoP and when you are ready the PHB.... do it bit by bit as you feel you will get value from the additional options and details contained in the other add ons.

Varsuuk

March 4th, 2016, 15:46

I second everyone's recommendation on Lost Mines of Phandelver adventure. I actually bought base ultimate and PHB + MM to start. Shortly after picked up Sword Coast Adventures because a friend bought the book and recommended it. So instead of buying book, I got FG version to read and bonus use parts of it. I wouldn't have gotten it from start normally. I also got Scourge of the Sword Coast to see what "pro" converted modules look like. I believe at first I thought that LMoP as a "starter adventure" had the quality or depth of old time "starter" pamphlet adventures. I was wrong. Very very wrong. It's actually super great and has all you need to run.

Later I bought the DMG, because I realized I was having fun with the hobby of learning to create modules with FG.

Now all praise for LMoP, I suggest you go and get a cheap (because you are trying to reduce initial outlay) module like Harried in Hillsfar (I haven't played or read this one) so you can run that first to get out the mechanical kinks with your group and then LMoP for the main course.

I'm converting Defiance in Phlan for similar reason of play testing. I wish I could buy that one so could use it to compare vs my build and help me when I get stuck, but so far no luck with SW offering it :(

Get LMoP, PHB & MM (SRDs will help in meanwhile) as soon as you see how great FG is and can swing it. DMG is nice for all the extra tables etc, but you don't need all of it at once to play or create so it's lower in order.

Implacable

March 4th, 2016, 18:07

Hi Implacable, and Welcome! to the Community,

So, to answer you specific questions:

1) No, the PHB etc is the fluff - the full and the ultimate license come with the mechanics for 5E and other rpgs, and also the stuff from the relevant SRD (System Reference Documents, published by WotC, etc), but that's it. Also, the only difference between the Ultimate and Full licenses is that the Ultimate license lets you host games for people with the Demo license; the Full license doesn't do this. So this won't hamstring you at all, if you already have the 5E rules (not Ruleset) then you can enter the information in manually yourself.

- So, just to clarify: Could you please give me a couple examples of things I would need to manually configure without the PHB and DMG? For example, spells. I opened up my Ultimate license software and attempted to make a Wizard, and I had the spells and what not in my "library" area despite not purchasing any DLC. Am I overlooking something?

2) No, any Monsters is "stuff" and not included - see above. But some purchase adventures (modules) do have monsters needed for the adventure, so this might be an option.

- I'm a tiny bit confused by this as well. If I go into my software, click "Library" then go to "DD5E SRD DATA" then "NPCS" - there is a massive # of monster entries here, and they all seem to have plenty of flavor text, attack data installed, etc. Are these not what I thought? Based on the sheer number of entries, I have to think it could suffice for a LONG while.

3) No, you are getting rules and Ruleset confused - FG comes with the Ruleset for 5E, but not any "stuff" (apart from what's in the SRD, which SW is allowed to include). Yes, a lot of groups just get the class pack for each of the class they want to play, as you suggest - or you can enter the information in manually.

4) No, the Character Customization Pack is not required - none of the Modules are. But they do make things more convenient. Again, you can get this Pack or enter the information in manually.

So - in regard to #3/4 - I see what you're saying. The information lacking can be entered manually. I'm still debating whether or not that would be 'worth it' I guess. I suppose getting a fuller understanding on what exactly all that manual entry would entail (depending on what would be 'missing') would guide my decision. It does seem that the Customization Pack would be prudent, as it has feats, equipment, races, etc. That does seem as though it would be a substantial time-saver.

Another quick analogy between rulesets and modules (DLC). In a face to face game a ruleset in FG would be everything *but* your game books if you were sitting around a table: the battlemap/white board, minis, dice, charactersheets. The modules in FG can be a rulebook like a PH, DMG, MM or they can also be the a premade adventure.

In your case to just get started as a DM I would suggest you get a 5E Adventure DLC (Lost Mines or one of the Adventure Paths). This gives you all of maps, monsters and things you need to run the adventure so you can put off getting a MM and DMG.

Thanks for that analogy. That does help clarify.

Plus you also have the 5e SRD included now which broadens the scope (but not the detail) of the Basic Rules.

Yeah, looking at the SRD pdf and some sites that have the information posted easily searchable (5esrd.com) - it certainly seems to me that this information is sufficient to play a game with. It *seems* to me to cover just about everything the PHB does.

Just as an example: https://www.5esrd.com/classes/wizard
That seems to me to be just about exactly what you would find in the PHB. And if THIS information is built in to the FG 5e SRD section, I think that should about cover it, no? (Obviously specialized classes would need the DLC packs)

I second everyone's recommendation on Lost Mines of Phandelver adventure. I actually bought base ultimate and PHB + MM to start. Shortly after picked up Sword Coast Adventures because a friend bought the book and recommended it. So instead of buying book, I got FG version to read and bonus use parts of it. I wouldn't have gotten it from start normally. I also got Scourge of the Sword Coast to see what "pro" converted modules look like. I believe at first I thought that LMoP as a "starter adventure" had the quality or depth of old time "starter" pamphlet adventures. I was wrong. Very very wrong. It's actually super great and has all you need to run.

Later I bought the DMG, because I realized I was having fun with the hobby of learning to create modules with FG.

Now all praise for LMoP, I suggest you go and get a cheap (because you are trying to reduce initial outlay) module like Harried in Hillsfar (I haven't played or read this one) so you can run that first to get out the mechanical kinks with your group and then LMoP for the main course.

Thanks for that input! My desire is to start from the beginning with my storyline and campaign in place, rather than a pre-gen. But after reading some of these comments, perhaps running like one session with a professionally converted pre-gen (or at least buying it and examining how it was built) isn't a bad idea!

I really appreciate all your comments, they are very helpful. If anyone wants to comment on any of my bolded questions or statements, that would be great! But I do feel more comfortable now, for the most part.

Implacable

March 4th, 2016, 18:23

Ugh - dangit. I had a lengthy response typed out and when I submitted it didn't go through and I hadn't copied it first... I'll try again.

1) No, the PHB etc is the fluff - the full and the ultimate license come with the mechanics for 5E and other rpgs, and also the stuff from the relevant SRD (System Reference Documents, published by WotC, etc), but that's it. Also, the only difference between the Ultimate and Full licenses is that the Ultimate license lets you host games for people with the Demo license; the Full license doesn't do this. So this won't hamstring you at all, if you already have the 5E rules (not Ruleset) then you can enter the information in manually yourself.

- Got it - although I am still struggling to fully understand which 'things' the 5eSRD is lacking that would need to be manually input. Reading through the official 5e SRD pdf, or looking it up on a searchable site such as 5esrd.com -- it certainly *seems* to me that basically everything is there. I see all the classes, all the feats, spells, races, etc.

- When I go into FG as a DM and attempt to make a character, a Wizard for example: I do indeed see all of the spells and so forth when I go to "Library -> DD Basic Rules - Player -> Spells -> Wizard" They all appear populated and ready to drag into a character sheet. Now I understand that the advanced classes are NOT there, so that would be an example of an "enter manually or purchase DLC" situation. But almost everything else seems to be covered, no?

2) No, any Monsters is "stuff" and not included - see above. But some purchase adventures (modules) do have monsters needed for the adventure, so this might be an option.

- Similarly to my response to #1 - when I open the Library and go to the SRD Bestiary, gosh there are hundreds of entries that have stats, feats, spells pre-populated. It sure would look like this could serve a group for a long time. So again, it's not totally clear to me what 'extra' the MM/DMG brings to the table.

3) No, you are getting rules and Ruleset confused - FG comes with the Ruleset for 5E, but not any "stuff" (apart from what's in the SRD, which SW is allowed to include). Yes, a lot of groups just get the class pack for each of the class they want to play, as you suggest - or you can enter the information in manually.

4) No, the Character Customization Pack is not required - none of the Modules are. But they do make things more convenient. Again, you can get this Pack or enter the information in manually.

The Customization pack not being required does make sense upon further inspection. Going into the DM/Player rules in the library, I mean goodness. I see entire sections devoted to Equipment, Races, Feats, Spells. Again, it really looks like all the basics (certainly enough for a low level group) are covered without the Customization pack, or the PHB/DMG for that matter.

Welcome to the boards, Implacable. To follow on dulux-ozs comments.

Another quick analogy between rulesets and modules (DLC). In a face to face game a ruleset in FG would be everything *but* your game books if you were sitting around a table: the battlemap/white board, minis, dice, charactersheets. The modules in FG can be a rulebook like a PH, DMG, MM or they can also be the a premade adventure.

That's a great analogy and it does help to understand. Thanks!

Plus you also have the 5e SRD included now which broadens the scope (but not the detail) of the Basic Rules.

LMoP and when you are ready the PHB.... do it bit by bit as you feel you will get value from the additional options and details contained in the other add ons.

Right, like I mentioned above. It really *does* seem as though the extra add ons are almost redundant. The SRD seems to have almost anything that is essential included.

I second everyone's recommendation on Lost Mines of Phandelver adventure. I actually bought base ultimate and PHB + MM to start. Shortly after picked up Sword Coast Adventures because a friend bought the book and recommended it. So instead of buying book, I got FG version to read and bonus use parts of it. I wouldn't have gotten it from start normally. I also got Scourge of the Sword Coast to see what "pro" converted modules look like. I believe at first I thought that LMoP as a "starter adventure" had the quality or depth of old time "starter" pamphlet adventures. I was wrong. Very very wrong. It's actually super great and has all you need to run.

Get LMoP, PHB & MM (SRDs will help in meanwhile) as soon as you see how great FG is and can swing it. DMG is nice for all the extra tables etc, but you don't need all of it at once to play or create so it's lower in order.

My initial goal was to start my own custom story and campaign from day 1 with my players. But reading some of these responses, perhaps a session with a low level pre-gen isn't a terrible idea. Thanks for the food for thought!

I want to thank you all for your responses, they are very helpful.

If anyone wants to clarify or correct me in anything I've said here that would help. Although for the most part I *think* I have a better grasp of things.

Implacable

March 4th, 2016, 18:45

Actually, I need to make another little observation here - as I am now REALLY confused ;)

Ok, if I run the software as a DM, open the PC panel and create a new PC.

Then I go to Library -> DD5E SRD DATA -> Classes <--- I see ALL the classes in here, including the "DLC" classes.

For example, Druid. I can drag the druid (with the shield icon) to the character sheet and populate it. I'm able to select its race, and most importantly, there are little dragable shields for ALL the spells and the druid special features text is all there as well.

This seems to fly in the face of the need for the 5.99 druid DLC, because it's all right in the SRD data.

Geez. Sorry for all these questions and the confusion. The more I dig around in this library (again, with nothing but the Ultimate subscription) - the more all the dlc seems completely unnecessary, unless I am really overlooking something right in front of me.

Trenloe

March 4th, 2016, 19:09

damned

March 4th, 2016, 20:52

The SRD is a very new release - and its awesome - its unbelievably good value. The Wizards want you playing 5E! If you are having trouble seeing the value of the Players DLC right now - hold off - they will let you know when they need more info. I think the PHB is a really good option but you certainly dont need it from day one especially if your players are new(ish) to 5e.

dulux-oz

March 5th, 2016, 01:25

- Got it - although I am still struggling to fully understand which 'things' the 5eSRD is lacking that would need to be manually input. Reading through the official 5e SRD pdf, or looking it up on a searchable site such as 5esrd.com -- it certainly *seems* to me that basically everything is there. I see all the classes, all the feats, spells, races, etc.

- When I go into FG as a DM and attempt to make a character, a Wizard for example: I do indeed see all of the spells and so forth when I go to "Library -> DD Basic Rules - Player -> Spells -> Wizard" They all appear populated and ready to drag into a character sheet. Now I understand that the advanced classes are NOT there, so that would be an example of an "enter manually or purchase DLC" situation. But almost everything else seems to be covered, no?

- Similarly to my response to #1 - when I open the Library and go to the SRD Bestiary, gosh there are hundreds of entries that have stats, feats, spells pre-populated. It sure would look like this could serve a group for a long time. So again, it's not totally clear to me what 'extra' the MM/DMG brings to the table.

Ahhh, there's the kicker (and sorry for the confusion) - the 5E-SRD has only recently been included. It, along with the 3.5E-SDR and the PF-SRD (as such) ARE included in both the Full and the Ultimate License. Yes, these contain "Stuff" I was talking about, but not the full PHB, MM or DMG, only a sub-set of these (a pretty nice sub-set, but not the full contents). What I was trying to convey was the idea that you don't NEED this "stuff" to be included because you can add it in yourself manually. An example of what I'm talking about is 4E - there is no 4E-SRD so there is no "stuff" for 4E included - you have to buy it or enter it manually.

OK, so in detail, for a 5E game then you should have the basics you need with the 5E-SRD (as per what Trenloe said in a previous post) but none of the other options - BUT - for a 4E game you would even have that. (I know you're only talking about 5E, but the principle applies to all the Rulesets and you may decide at some point to try one of the others - or someone else might be reading this who is more interested in one of the other Rulesets).

Anyway, as I said, sorry for any confusion (I did mention the 5E-SRD (didn't call it that, just called it "SRD" with the "5E" part being implied), but it obviously got lost in the "forest of trees" :) ) But the advice the others have mentioned - getting a pre-made adventure (module) and running that to see how things go, joining in on a game, playing a game at FG-Con in April, watching Tutorial Vids, etc - all that is good advice, because like with role-playing in general, the best way to learn is by doing.

Anyway, if you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask them - we like answering questions, and we're a pretty friendly bunch :)

Cheers

damned

March 5th, 2016, 02:46

There is no 4E content. No SRD and none for sale. There is no license for official 3.5e or 4e content.

dulux-oz

March 5th, 2016, 03:45

There is no 4E content. No SRD and none for sale. There is no license for official 3.5e or 4e content.

Which was what I was saying/implying :)

damned

March 5th, 2016, 04:10

Which was what I was saying/implying :)

Except you didnt!

there is no 4E-SRD so there is no "stuff" for 4E included - you have to buy it or enter it manually

:)

Implacable

March 5th, 2016, 19:05

The SRD data is not as complete as the PHB data. In your example, for the Druid there is just the Circle of the Land Druidic circle, the Circle of the Moon is not included.

For other classes with options you'll find there is usually only one option. For example, the Fighter only has the Champion Martial Archetype; the Battle Master and Eldrich Knight aren't included.

This is across the board - the SRD has less than what the PHB has. For example, it has 20 zero level spells, but the PHB has 23.

Ahhhh! So we got to the center of the issue here. This info is really helpful and I think I finally understand it now. It certainly looked complete upon overview, but I see now what you're saying. It's a 'sample platter' ;)

OK - so one additional addendum question here then: Let's say (using the Druid example) that my player wanted to play a Circle of the Moon Druid. Since the SRD does not contain that subclass, would the single purchase of the 5.99 Druid pack then add that and any other Druid specific info into the campaign? My main point being, I could for now ignore the PHB since the SRD seems to be 'mostly' complete and fill in the blanks with Character Class Packs? My thought process here is that I could query my players in the base class they want to play, then reference whether or not it's 'included' in the SRD - and if not, we would purchase that specific pack.

Your post was very helpful, that had been wracking my brain.

Ahhh, there's the kicker (and sorry for the confusion) - the 5E-SRD has only recently been included Ahhhhhhhhhh, so previously all the extras were almost certainly must buy DLC unless you wanted to spend dozens of hours of manual entry, got it! . It, along with the 3.5E-SDR and the PF-SRD (as such) ARE included in both the Full and the Ultimate License. Yes, these contain "Stuff" I was talking about, but not the full PHB, MM or DMG, only a sub-set of these (a pretty nice sub-set, but not the full contents). What I was trying to convey was the idea that you don't NEED this "stuff" to be included because you can add it in yourself manually.

This is finally making more sense based on the last few helpful posts :)

OK, so in detail, for a 5E game then you should have the basics you need with the 5E-SRD (as per what Trenloe said in a previous post) but none of the other options.

Anyway, if you have any other questions don't hesitate to ask them - we like answering questions, and we're a pretty friendly bunch :)

Indeed you are. I already love this community!

Zacchaeus

March 5th, 2016, 21:56

Yes, the class packs would "fill in the blanks" as you put it. There is also the character options pack which does the same kind of thing for backgrounds (you only get one in the SRD) and Feats (again you only get one in the SRD) and Subraces (again the SRD is a bit light on subraces). You will find that at the end of the day your players might want a fair amount of the options which aren't in the SRD or basic rules modules.

Implacable

March 5th, 2016, 22:20