Success Rate for LFG Players?

[bigbluepaw]

Hey folks. I'm not sure if anyone here has an answer. But I have a question.

I've running a couple of one-shots recently. As I meander through the LFG forum, I see a LOT of seemingly new players wanting to play. But I wonder what percent of them successfully get into a game. Anyone know?

My next thought is that the gating factor to getting these new players into games is the number of folks willing to DM a game? I can see where it might be daunting.

If that is a correct assumption, have you all ever thought about a set of DM orientation sessions? When I was DMing in NWN, there was a whole 'certification' set of sessions where some longtime DMs showed newbies how to use the tools. It was tremendously helpful. I don't think I would have gotten into it if I hadn't participated.

In FG, a DM orientation session could be as simple as streaming the main DM's screen to twitch, allowing new DMs to watch and everyone joining the same TS channel. Thoughts?

[Zacchaeus]

I don't know what the success rate would be to be honest; I suppose it depends on what the player is looking for in terms of game type or ruleset.

As to your other point the FGCon and FGDaze are sort of similar to the type of thing you are talking about; the idea being to give new players a taste of what FG and the rulesets are all about. I have read several chaps say that there's always more players than there are DMs so I take that to mean that most people don't want to DM since it does take a special kind of madness to want to be one :)

However the FGCons do certainly attract budding DMs. I believe also that several people stream their games already and a brief sojourn around YouTube seems to confirm that. In all fairness I'm not sure whether it is the cost or the lack of willingness that pervents more DMs coming forward.

One more thought. Most DMs probably only play with their own groups (I'm one of them) and don't therefore advertise or look for players.

[Trenloe]

There have been various community members run familiarisation sessions over the years - I did a few 4 years ago, and most recently I know of jh79 doing some 5E "classes": https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?24111-5e-Fantasy-Grounds-Training-Class

It's a lot of work to do these type of sessions so most people end up doing only a handful.

As far as success rates for players LFG goes, there aren't any statistics. I would guess that people who stick at it, communicate well, turn up to scheduled games, have a relatively flexible schedule, etc. will have a very good rate. Those who don't make an effort, don't turn up to scheduled games (and don't tell the GM they can't make it), expect it all to come to them, have inflexible schedules, etc. won't have much of a success rate.

[jshauber]

I've done some 1 on 1 sessions for new DMs at various times. There are also some others that run irregular "training sessions" as Trenloe mentioned.

I also still email with a couple of them as questions come up, but from what I have seen they have been successful in picking up FG and getting their games going.

[Dorthan]

Most of the games that I'm interested in run on Sunday, which is when I have a real life game scheduled, so that puts the vast majority of the games off the table - I haven't counted, but there are tons of games on Sundays. I'd say out of all the games I find that I'd like to play and am able to attend, it's full before I can respond about 50% of the time. Of the ones I have actually posted to on the forums (10), I was not able to get into 40% of them. 30% of the ones I have posted to haven't happened yet, so they may also be included in the failed %. Only one of those games was Pathfinder (my game of choice) and it was a Core Society game which I had absolutely no familiarity with.

Any sort of GM learning tools would be welcome. The easier it is for people to GM, the easier it will be for folks to find a game because there will be more GM's. I'm still in the very early learning stages of being a player of FG, let alone trying to GM something. I'm healing the NPC's and attacking the players because I'm still rather clumsy with the FG interface - who knows what I'd do as a GM.

I'd love to see some sort of LFG tool implemented directly into Fantasy Grounds like there is in World of Warcraft. Not sure how they'd do it, but the forums are a fairly clumsy way to find a group. Depending on when the GM posts, certain folks are out of luck as they arrive too late to be considered. Also, waiting on the Teamspeak server for a GM to pop on and say s/he is running a oneshot is pretty hit and miss.

I've been looking for a Pathfinder game since January 12, and was able to get into 1 Core Society game (I had never tried Society before, and thanks to cmdisc I'll continue looking for these types of games.) I've been searching the forums multiple times daily, and subscribed to several. I broadened the games that I would play and found a wonderful Dungeon World one shot with damned, I had never heard of Dungeon World before. Then I broadened it even further to 5e and 3.5, and found a sort of ad hoc 3.5 group.

I've had more success getting into games on Roll20.net, their LFG tool seems a bit easier to filter/search through.

I'd like to thank damned, cmdisc, and waylorn for putting up with my noobishness, and each one for teaching me a little bit more about FG each time I use it.

[Nylanfs]

Don't just look at your time zone also, check games from other time zones (or even from the other side of the planet, it's tomorrow/yesterday there).

[Trenloe]

And stick at it. It may take you a few weeks to find a game that matches what you want and is your type of game to play. It may even take longer than a few weeks. This, obviously, frustrates a lot of new folks as they want to get into a game immediately. I've been around these forums for a while and I could easily be playing in a game on FG every waking moment. So, stick at it; keep visiting the forums (as mentioned above, games can fill up quickly) and keep visiting older game posts - there can be regular drop-outs.

Also try to get into a few one-off games - FGDaze! and FG-Con are great for this - even if they aren't exactly the type of game you're looking for. You'll connect with a lot of other FG gamers and this will help you get into games too.

roll20 has a lot more public games running, so it's easier to find a game. However, I've read a number of ex-roll20 GMs and players mention that the ease of finding a game on roll20 resulted, in their experience, in a much bigger ratio of no-shows/cancelled games.

But, as has been mentioned above, games need GMs. Some people will never GM, that's just the way it is. Some will never GM in "public" (i.e. they'll just GM for their friends and never post for players). Some need some assistance/guidance getting going and that is where the community can help, but this can't land on the shoulders of just a few. In jh79's class thread I post a link to above, he mentions "paying it forward" - it would be great if mid-level experience FG GMs would run one or two informal sessions to show new folks (new to GMing and/or Fantasy Grounds) how to use FG, and then those people do something similar in the future, etc., etc.. Paying forward the great support they have had from the FG community.

[Dorthan]

I do, that's how I got into damned's Dungeon World game at 3:30 in the am on a Saturday LOL

[SkyphosLush]

Recently joined:
With the help of Damned my success rate is at 200%. I was looking for a group, but I found 2.

[gaara6666]

With being flexible, showing my credentials, and having good reputation as a consistent on time person who shows up. I have a tuesday, saturday bi-weekly saturday, sunday, and friday game I play in.

[Ellspeth]

I have been on the forums a little over a year, and was really unsure because I was pretty new to rpg's and fantasy grounds both. I responded to the GM's that contacted me, but I had specified I was willing to try rulesets, settings and characters I didn't know which at that time was most of them. Withing 30 days I had 3 games that were very long term, one I am still in, one I am playing in a different game with the same GM and the third campaign just ended last week. I stayed with it, and in a few more months added a few more games because I have a flexible enough schedule to play in my afternoons which is primetime evenings for the European GM's. I play in the Cons and Fg-Daze to try new systems and meet people, and last FG-Daze I Gm's my first game for the community, the third in my entire life in the Savage Worlds ruleset. Now like Trenloe if I were able I could be in games nearly every waking moment, but have limited myself to no more than 9 a week and am cutting back a bit there as well. And I would concur with those who say the larger issue is enough GM's to meet player demand. Part of the reason I ran the game for the last FG-Daze is if someone with only 2 years RPG and FG experience can run a successful game, even a single session, then a lot of the longer term RPG players even if new to FG should find the courage to give it a try as well. As others have noted, there are many factors, persistence, willingness to try something new, reliability. All that said good luck, I have enjoyed the last year more than I could have imagined and wish the same for everyone else coming in.

[dulux-oz]

Just on the subject of "new GM's" - I never played an RPG until I'd been GMing for 8 years. You don't need to know squat about GMing if you're willing to give it a go, read the adventure, read and know where to find things in the Rulebook(s), and tell your players up-front that you're new at this.

The "trick" is to be ready - make sure you've got a good understanding of the basics of your game and the basic plot line of your adventure - that's all you need! (And the desire to to it, of course!)

The first adventure I ran was the old DnD B1 Keep On The Borderlands - none of us had played before so, yeah, we made a few mistakes, but it didn't matter because everyone had fun - and that's the purpose of RPGs: for people to have fun!

We tend to forget that sometimes, getting lost in the trees of detail and not seeing the forest of fun.

So if you want to GM get in there and do it - no matter how "inexperienced" you think you are!

</rant> :)

Cheers

[Ellspeth]

All true Dulux, because I play with players who have been playing RPG's since their teens, running settings they knew but I didn't was intimidating, so I ran what I knew, a Savage World home brew based entirely in real history. Write what you know is good advice to writers run what you know, or are most comfortable with is good advice to GM's. I also had tremendous help from other GM's in the community learning to run the ruleset, make the adaptations needed. Whether you are running games, playing or both, I find this community to be a valuable resource that makes it easier and more fun for everyone

[damned]

bigbluepaw and I had a little correspondence on this subject earlier.

my thoughts/observations/interpretations...

1. If you discount those (many) LFG posts by people who remain on a single post count (and I think you do need to discount those as playing RPGs is a commitment - you have to commitment to the group, the time, commit your presence, your attention etc, and a single post suggests that the poster does not understand what is involved in playing RPGs) then I think that the eventual success rate is reasonably high but only if they stick at it.
2. if you are only available between 7pm-930pm on Tuesdays CST and you are looking for the Rage Of Tiamat.... well its going to be much harder to find a game... If you are flexible about what ruleset you play that will be a big help. If you are available for a longer window (not necessarily to play for longer but just a longer window) that helps. If you are available on more days - that helps. Ultimately if you are struggling to find a game - broaden your scope.
3. If you wait for a game to come to you it will take longer.

It can be hard work running one shots for new players. Many do no shows - that is the hardest part I think. Ive been very lucky with my last few - Ive had great players, all eager to play, eager to learn, and all willing to put up with me experimenting a little. Ive also had games where only 2 of 6 have shown up. That sucks for me to have made a commitment to 6 people and only 2 of them have reciprocated when it came to the crunch. That happens a lot to a lot of GMs and it mostly happens from new players. (It doesnt only happen from new players but its a lot more common from new players).

Putting on training sessions for new GMs is awesome. I love the idea and I guarantee you will find interested people. It is in many ways paying it forward. jh79's sessions were booked solid and got excellent reviews.

A few years ago some of the GMs here started a Fantasy Grounds Virtual Convention. It has grown and continues to grow each time it is run and we really do pitch it at new players - although about 2/3rds of actual players are existing players when all is said and done. Last year we decided to throw some mini gaming days - FGDaze - into the mix - again aimed mostly at new players. The PFS and AL guys are basically running one shots all the time. And they are good games. And there are a small bunch of GMs who run a lot of One Shots. Often not 5e but great games all the same.

Its hard to ask GMs to give up more of their time to do these things - even though thats what I do everytime FGCon and FGDaze comes around <weg> - but I really love it when I see it. I love it when I see a player decide to give the GM role a go. I love it when I see a group of LFGs gravitate together and eventually one of them says screw it and jumps into the GM role - ready or not.

If you - or any other - wants to run some classes and you need some help - please ask me and I will do my best to assist or find someone else who can assist you. If you or any other wants to run a game at FGDaze or FGCon and wants some help - please ask.

Im sure I have forgotten most of what I was going to say but Ive said enough already :)

[damned]

Oh - and Dorthan and others who have played with me recently - I appreciate your participation and involvement!

[JohnD]

There are a lot of people that treat this as disposable gaming - like jumping into a CoD deathmatch for an evening, saying "GG" at the end and never being seen/heard from again on that server. As a DM, you don't know if your new player is "one of those" until after the fact. After you have taken your time to talk to them, perhaps walk through character creation, perhaps a 45 minute intro to using FG, perhaps 15-20 minutes of in-game time making the new player feel welcome in your established group (and building in a reason for the PC to meet up and accompany the existing ones). All that is wasted when the person pulls a Houdini on you.

So, I think many times once a DM gets established, he/she develops a bit of a roster of the "old faithful"; people he/she knows enjoy the style of game you want to provide, and are reliable and not delta-bravos on the conduct side. Occasionally you add in a new person to your existing roster.

On the flip side, there are players whose first experience is a DM who makes it look like the game is awesome and going ahead full steam, only to go AWOL after one session, or before even that, when they realize how much work it is being a DM behind the scenes.

So there's both sides.

Many years ago, in the 1980s, I made a sort of competition dungeon crawl; players ventured into a large mountain which had halls and rooms, traps and wonders all for some unknown reason. This was before Forgotten Realms or Undermountain were 'out there'. It was designed for competing groups of players to take the same PCs, use different entrances to the dungeon and have a set amount of real time to amass as much XP and loot as possible, with bonuses for uncovering certain secret areas and items. There were multiple levels, sub-levels, themed areas, internal conflict between the inhabitants, other adventuring parties you could encounter as either adversaries or to join up with, etc.... A true dungeon crawl that might today be termed "old school dungeon crawling".

I still have the fragile crinkled pages that made up most of this enterprise which was indeed quite a hit with the War Games club in high school back in the day when mullets ruled the corner. I've recently unfolded everything and am hand drawing the maps with a view to scan them. There's a lot of work here, but my family recently lost a beloved pet and I find it peaceful and distracting from thinking about the loss.

If I made something like this available for generally one-off games does anyone think it would be popular? In FG terms, it would be a session where you know there really isn't a plot or a story, all you're going to do is root around in a dungeon and fight things and find loot, maybe enough XP to advance your pre-gen character. Big plus is new people would learn how to use FG, and perhaps meet a few other new people which might facilitate future groups gathering for long term games. Just a thought. This wouldn't be available until likely late March due to real life discombobulations.

[damned]

Hi JohnD I think a lot of first (and second) timers to FG need some handholding - especially along the lines of combat and movement and interacting with the Char Sheet and a Dungeon Crawl would give ample opportunity for all of that. If you ran it for 5e it would fill up every time. If you ran it for C&C it might take some work to fill up (sadly).

And yes - its not just players who no show. Real life happens. **** happens (see TeamSpeak saga). Good communication makes everything ok.

[LordEntrails]

@JohnD,
Yes, I'm confident it would be popular. I've been running pieces of my Undermountain update and I've always had a full roster of people who register for it. And it seems to get good reviews too. Your idea with the added competition aspect I think would be very popular. If you posted the results and kept them from different runs it would be a neat thing to "brag" about :)

[JohnD]

Yeah my idea would definitely be for 5e. Kind of a flash adventure - the first 4 or 5 that show up get an evening. Can use pregens if necessary or bring an existing character within guidelines. Rinse/repeat the next time of unexpected availability on my end.

I'll keep putting in the work during my current unfortunate home situation impacting actual gaming time.

[damned]

I was a little put off by the whole - whoever shows up first thing for who gets to play - but seeing it in action its a lot easier for the GM - although a little bit of a downer for anyone that is there but too far down the queue.

[Ellspeth]

The beauty of Fantasy Grounds from my less experienced point of view is it's amazing versatility. On this thread multiple ways of running games, searching games, what kind of games, players, GM's etc so over time I expect there is something to suit just about every taste and style. The tricky part is connecting with others that share your taste and style preferences. I have been fortunate, or persistent, but I think I have a fascination most of you experienced years ago when you first started playing and I so want to try all the various choices, hopefully I live so long.
Fantasy Grounds brings together players from all over the world, so add scheduling can get a bit tricky syncing up worldwide time zones. John your idea would be brilliant for new players, on the TS server they are there looking for games at times, maybe they found themselves free unexpectedly, regular game cancelled, so many reasons people would sit down and play a one off and enjoy it. Perhaps if you target what appear to be the busiest nights on the Teamspeak, nights that usually have 9-10 games running your numbers would go through the charts, I am always surprised on the server when on tuesday or wednesday nights so many people are playing. Further the community has grown steadily, even in the short time I have been here, as more people get into Fantasy Grounds the options can only expand.

[Black Hammer]

As a GM, I find FG to be a great tool but a complete dead end as far as getting games going that aren't D&D or Pathfinder. Scrounging around here, the FG Steam forum, and a few other places I can usually get around six or seven people who say they are interested in a game and timeslot. Come game night, I get two people, and one shows up late while the other has to leave early. I've pretty much put FG on a back burner until I'm past spring con season and have time to waste organizing games that won't ever happen.

[Mask_of_winter]

As a GM, I find FG to be a great tool but a complete dead end as far as getting games going that aren't D&D or Pathfinder. Scrounging around here, the FG Steam forum, and a few other places I can usually get around six or seven people who say they are interested in a game and timeslot. Come game night, I get two people, and one shows up late while the other has to leave early. I've pretty much put FG on a back burner until I'm past spring con season and have time to waste organizing games that won't ever happen.

I know where you're coming from and feel your pain. It can get pretty frustrating. Games other than D&D and Pathfinder are harder to fill simply because people don't know about them. If you want potential players to be interested in the game you have to offer, you have to sell it to them. Simply naming the game and expecting them to do the research isn't enough. Does it require a lot of work to sell a new game to someone? You bet it is. Whether or not you're willing to make that commitment is a question only you know the answer to. If you'd like some tips, allow me to direct you to my blog where I share some thoughts on how to recruit for Fantasy Grounds. This comes after years of hard work recruiting for games on here. Never ran PF and only ran two 5e games. https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/entry.php?94-A-Guide-to-Recruiting-for-Fantasy-Grounds

Cheers! And don't give up!

[Black Hammer]

Cheers! And don't give up!

Too late for that, sadly. Other venues have it much easier and more rewarding to run not just established games outside of the usual generic fantasy but even new and indie games. One of the things I'd hoped to ultimately use FG for was to help playtest and demo some of the games I'm frequently asked to run at conventions or local stores, but I really don't see that happening here regardless of how much time I invest.

[bigbluepaw]

JohnD and Damned, I think a 'flash adventure' is an awesome idea.

I would suggest:
> Making it linear to keep it super simple.
> Include one or two roleplay opportunities with NPCs.
> Include different encounter types: combat, puzzle, trap, discussion.
> Include quick 'documentation' on how to run each encounter type.
> Include quick 'documentation' on the mechanics of each encounter.
> Only use pre-made characters (this can be a serious time sink).

I would be more than willing to help author content or organize such an effort.

Worst case, I can adapt my one-shot Tome of Secrets to this.

BTW, do we have a dedicated place where folks can share their modules with others?

[Trenloe]

BTW, do we have a dedicated place where folks can share their modules with others?
Most ruleset specific forums have a sticky thread at the top that contains a list of modules available for that ruleset. Create a thread in the relevant forum specifically for your module (for download, discussions, updates, etc.) and add a single post, with a link to your module thread, in the sticky module list thread.

[IronSides]

I've only just begun and have yet to find a game, the frustration is beginning to mount.

I'm starting to think I wasted almost 100$.

[Andraax]

I've only just begun and have yet to find a game, the frustration is beginning to mount.

I'm starting to think I wasted almost 100$.

Your first post was less than 2 days ago, and I don't see where you've posted your specific availability or which rules system you're interested in playing. I have an opening in my Tuesday night game, but you have not contacted me.

*shrug*

Did you expect to be served a gaming experience on a silver platter? Do you think GMs are only here to serve *your* whims?

[JohnD]

People do need to take some responsibility for finding a game, that's true. If real life wasn't kicking me in the privates right now I'd have three games that I DM ongoing right now plus two more I play in. All that didn't just show up on my doorstep without some personal initiative.

[Trenloe]

I've only just begun and have yet to find a game, the frustration is beginning to mount.
See my comments in posts #3 and #7 above. Keep at it and don't sit back waiting for a game to come to you.

[Black Hammer]

I've only just begun and have yet to find a game, the frustration is beginning to mount.

I'm starting to think I wasted almost 100$.

As the most negative person here, I'd like to throw in here.

You only wasted $100 if you give up. It isn't impossible to find games, just a lot of work. Thing is, once you put in the time to find a game, it will hopefully last a while and put you in touch with some people who will make finding your next game that much easier.

Heck, I'm lazy and a quitter, and I'm still not writing off my ultimate license. Just taking a break before I put some new irons in the fire.

[damned]

Het IronSides 5e games fill up very quickly. You need to express your interest in games as they are posted. Sometimes it can take week or even weeks to find your game but as Black Hammer says games might then last for many weeks/months/years. Also dont discount any of the other great games going on. 5e is the flavour of the year (maybe the decade) but for the most part the system doesnt matter that much - its the interactions with the others at the table that matter most.
Andraax runs Castles&Crusades, Mask_of_winter runs everything under the sun. There are lots of good games going.

[IronSides]

Ok well I have been checking the postings for 5e games every 10minutes for three-four days now(in fact nothing on there has changed in that time), I'm not sure I can be more vigilant than that. But I won't give up.

Is there another place people find games besides here am I missing out on some secret place where others go?

[damned]

Black Hammer I have never run a 5e game but most of my games run with a full or close to full compliment of players. Even when running stuff like Maelstrom RPG from 1984 :) It is harder and you do have to work at it to fill those games up (sadly) but it does happen.

[Nylanfs]

There's the Steam LFG forums, alternately there it the Society of Extraordinary Gamers.

[damned]

Ok well I have been checking the postings for 5e games every 10minutes for three-four days now(in fact nothing on there has changed in that time), I'm not sure I can be more vigilant than that. But I won't give up.

Is there another place people find games besides here am I missing out on some secret place where others go?

Most games once they start dont need axtra players very often. There are other places people organise games but this is the most common for english speaking games.

It looks like you are doing it all right so it will happen im sure. What is your availability and timezone?

[IronSides]

Eastern Florida USA, I work outside during the day I'm usually home by 6pm at the very latest.

[Mask_of_winter]

What about that one IronSides? https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?28201-(D-amp-D-5E)-quot-Return-of-the-Wraithborne-quot-Call-for-Players

[IronSides]

Well missed that one so there is somewhere else to look I missed. I will try, thatll be the 6th or 7th game I try to sign.

Also I think even adventure league may be not for me which limits me.

I watched a stream last night and was turned off on how the players and DM metagamed and talked about "builds" and magic items like an MMO.

To me thats not D&D.

[Ardem]

On a side note I picked up a new player from the FG Teamspeak, we were setting up to play our weekly game and he asked how easy it is to get into one shot or games on FG, he only just bought FG. I said well if your interested you will not b able to play tonight but I can get you started next week for a weekly game.

I think a lot depends on the LFG player and how willing they are to put themselves out there.