PDA

View Full Version : Dice rolling sounds?



sunbeam60
February 15th, 2005, 00:46
Are there suppose to be any?

richvalle
February 15th, 2005, 01:08
No. They thought about having sounds (mainly from dice) in the game but desided the game did not need sound.

rv

Dupre
February 15th, 2005, 13:54
Generating any sound on the fly is difficult, be it dice, engines, voice or instruments. We had dice sounds at one point during devepment, but the quality wasn't good enough to withstand long continous use without becoming irritating.

I believe interface feedback sounds would be a good addition, provided you can turn them off. This has been brought up before, but I'd like to hear more opinions on it.
- How would you feel if you had non-intrusive feedback sounds from the papers, sheets and tokens when you grabbed them (similar to what, say Baldur's Gate or similar games have)?
- Would you find it odd, if you had feedback sound effects but dice would be silent?
- Would you want to be able to modify them and have them as part of modules?

Ilwan
February 15th, 2005, 17:28
The only use I see in sound integration, would be if the software had a mediaplayer that would stream sounds to the players (like shoutcast). That could enable the GM to start music according to the situation (battle, travel etc.) or having soundseffects (check out www.rpgsoundmixer.com ) to follow events.
Otherwise I dont miss any sounds in the program at all. I think development should focus on improving the software and not on entirely new features.

Aesir
February 15th, 2005, 19:27
I believe interface feedback sounds would be a good addition, provided you can turn them off.

Agree. I'd suggest the lack of sounds is most noted when you first use FG.


- How would you feel if you had non-intrusive feedback sounds from the papers, sheets and tokens when you grabbed them (similar to what, say Baldur's Gate or similar games have)?
I would feel that it is a generally positive idea. See further down for how I would want to see this implemented.


- Would you find it odd, if you had feedback sound effects but dice would be silent?
Yes, I think I would..because the missing sounds from the dice rolling is currently the only real thing I happen to notice (as far as sounds that I think should be there).. The 'bad' side of dice sounds is that it would eventually annoy me (others would disagree, so a way to turn them on or off is really what is needed if you consider adding sound.


- Would you want to be able to modify them and have them as part of modules?

Here's what I would want:

I'd want the various player and GM event sounds (die rolling, interface bells, window whistles, etc.) to be defined by a URL path to a local or non-local .wav file. This 'setting' is user-definable as it is stored in a XML entry.

Example XML entry (assumed to be stored in a Settings or initialzation XML file that contains user-definable settings for sounds and other things):



<PlayerWhisperSound catagory="SoundSettings" Tooltip="Path to sound file played when you receive a whisper from a player." value="C&#58;\WINDOWS\Media\Beep.wav"/>

<OneDieRollingSound catagory="SoundSettings" Tooltip="Path to sound file played when you roll one die." value="C&#58;\WINDOWS\Media\DiceOne.wav"/>

<RufflingParchment catagory="SoundSettings" Tooltip="Path to sound file played when you look at a map window." value="C&#58;\WINDOWS\Media\CrumplingPaper.wav"/>



I pick .wav as the preferred sound file format for several reasons, if this discussion goes into that kind of detail later on, I'll 'chime' in about .wav then.

If no valid path is defined, then there is no error displayed - there is just no sound. So blanking the Path to File entry is how you toggle sounds off.

I want these settings in XML for consistency with the rest of FG. Makes it a bit easier to add/change/delete sound events defined by FG too.

I'd want GM event sounds to work the same way. A GM event sound is a sound that is used by the GM as part of a module ("Orc Battle Cries" or "Creepy Cave Ambient Sound", for example).



<GM Event Sound catagory="SoundSettings" Tooltip="Path to sound file played when a GM Sound Event is initiated." ChatPadText="/emote You hear a screaming orc charge into the fray." value="..\MyAdventure\Sounds\ScreamingOrc.wav"/>

The GM adds entries to a module or session-specific MyAdventureSounds.xml to do this. When the GM sets up the module for play, he enters an event name ("Orc Battle Cry"), a "flavor text" entry that displays in the chat pad when a given sound is played ("You hear the blood-curdling sound of Orcs charge into the fray.") and the path to the .wav s/he wants to use.

The Event Name is how FG knows what to play. The Flavor Text allows someone without the sound files (or a sound card, or the volume turned down) to 'see' a given sound.

The "MyAdventureSounds.xml" (or whatever you name it) points to the .wav needed for that individual event and when the GM sets up the module for distribution, that file, and the associated sound files, are packages with the rest of the mod. In fact, the sounds could be packaged separately as an optional download if desired. This allows a better adventure distribution model for those that are 'bandwidth' challenged. If the gaming session in question wasn't setup in advance (w/ players DLing the sounds), then client and GM server interface options should be set to allow for DLing those files after a player connects to the session. A player that is bandwidth challenged (or who started late) can go ahead and decide whether or not to DL those files at connect time.

The end result is that an individual player can customize his/her sound interface. And GMs or designers can add some 'bells & whistles' to their modules and campaigns to suit their needs.

Please contact me (reply here or PM) if there are questions... long posts often get confusing (apologies in advance).

[Edited: This type of implementation leads to a whole new area for creativity using FG... I foresee 'Sound Paks" being created and distributed amongst the community.]

Visigodo
February 15th, 2005, 20:15
Im an apologist of sound implementation :twisted: I said it once and say it again.

And Aesir idea seems interesting.

Aesir
February 15th, 2005, 21:23
This was waaay too easy...

I googled 'pig sounds' and found this site (http://www.partnersinrhyme.com/soundfx/boarsandpigs.shtml) immediately.

I clicked a couple of their sample pig sounds, and thought ofarm.wav sounded about right for Orcs.

I saved the file and opened it with "Sound Recorder", which comes with Windows XP (and all versions of Windows supported by FG).

I chose on the menu "Effects | Decrease Volume" and "Effects | Decrease Speed".

I also tried "Effects | Reverse" and "Effects | Echo" and it sounded cool as well, but the final copy I made is just slowed down one step, that's all!

Sound Recorder let's you mix two sound files together too. If I wanted, I suppose I could add in a pig-squeal sound and play that if when the Orc is killed. *grins*



I think the resulting sound ("Nasty Orcses Are Coming My Pressscious!") (http://home.ptd.net/~pdamato/misc/NastyOrcsesAreComingMyPressscious.wav) is perfect for a general "Orc" sound, and I would be excited by the prospect of FG implementing something like what I'd described (in my prior post).

In total, it took far longer for me to write *this* post, than it did for me to create the sound effect.

~ 1 minute to find the site with pig sounds.
~ 1 minute to try two effects and listen to them.
Done. And it was done for free, with no additional software required.

A GM could use a microphone to record map area descriptions, module/campaign introductory descriptions, etc. Double click a sound widget or icon in the map area description text, or from a list of sounds associated with the module and the players hear the recording. Players could record PC descriptions, and so on. The creative possibilities are vast. More importantly, I think this fits perfectly with FG's goal of reproducing the table top experience. I also think it would be just as easy for players and DMs to set these things up - certainly easier than modifying rules or adding races or classes right now.

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but to bring it back on topic:
I suppose I could roll some dice and record that sound as well, just as easily. :)

sunbeam60
February 15th, 2005, 22:03
To be fair, I actually belong to the camp that think sound streaming and remote playback is one of the features that can wait. It's a whooole can of worms, and there are so many other things I'd like to see improved (from their current status of "kickass!") before sound streaming is tackled.

But, seeing as I started this thread talking about dice sounds, it perhaps comes as no surprise that I'm a fan of interface sounds (but to be able to switch them off is probably a required feature).

I'm a big fan of the virtual dice; didn't think I'd take to them, but they rock. Having spent so much time simulating how these little things roll around, I was kinda surprised there was no sound, especially since the program actually simulates them hitting a table. No reason for stock dice rolling sounds that repeat when you know how the dice roll and when it hits the "table"... flip between 5 different "hit" sounds, all ultra short, every time the dice hits something, or rolls, and you've got dynamic dice rolling sounds.

Or so I would think.

Bjorn

Aesir
February 15th, 2005, 22:22
...I actually belong to the camp that think sound streaming and remote playback is one of the features that can wait.

The core sound implementation I outlined doesn't depend on streaming. Perhaps as a Phase I plan, streaming is excluded from the implementation. I hope that might allay the concern about "cans of worms" :)

We'd have to leave it up to Smite Works to decide on priority of course, but what do you think? If the non-streaming implementation were put in place without taking away from things that are considered higher priority by you, would you then see module flavor/ambience sounds as a valued addition to the potential creativity options given to a GM or module/campaign designer? Would you appreciate it as a player?

richvalle
February 16th, 2005, 00:48
I'm more in the 'no sounds' group. Maybe farther down the road it could be added.

I like the design idea of 'if its not done at the table, its not done in FG' sort of thing. Sure some dm's might play sounds at their games but its not common.

My 2 cents.

rv

Thore_Ironrock
February 16th, 2005, 02:41
For me sounds are a two-way street. On the one hand dice sounds could be cool, but to me the graphical dice are more impactive. What I would like to have for sounds is the ability to record say a room description and be able to play it when the party enters a room, or to record things like player introductions and such.

Yeah, dice sounds could be cool, but I would rather have sound for other things.

- Thore

msd
February 16th, 2005, 04:11
You know, I initially didn't think too much of the whole sound idea...I mean, to a certain extent, you have to concede that your not playing face to face and stop trying to spin your wheels compensating for that. I put the making of the dice sound, the shuffling of the paper sound, the opening of the book sound into that category.

But, this thread kinda has me turned around a bit. Some of the ideas that you guys are throwing around are actually pretty cool. I especially like the idea that you could "register" a sound file with the system (by either dropping it into a specified directory like images and tokens) or by command line and then being able to call it back at the command line with a "/play mySound". Very flexible.

Two thoughts.

I'd like to see it implemented in a way so that it can be used completely at the preference of the user. In other words, if someone just isn't into the sound thing, they should be able to turn it completely off.

Second, IMHO (for me, personally, :D ), I would like to see this go towards the bottom of the list. There are some very cool ideas, but I think there are some more important things that need dev cycles before this gets implemented. People have talked about better token support (I know this is being worked on), better editing/adventure writing and creation support so people aren't working with raw XML (which sounds like it is happening a lot - not good), as well as some other things.

But this thread has really thrown out some very cool ideas. Im looking forward to whatever the FG guys throw our way!

-Matt

Legacy
February 16th, 2005, 15:59
I am no to the sound. I used it in a competing product and while at first thought it was very cool, it became quite maddening... especially as certain sounds (tied to combat) could not be toggled on & off.

Personally I would rather see other improvements completed first (mapping, DM utilities, tying player data to icons, etc). When and if sound is implemented it should be an optional user preference.

My two cents!

Cheers,
BTS

Boda
February 17th, 2005, 15:38
I say, absolutely, yes. This product has a polish to it like no other of its kind. The only thing that feels to be missing are sounds; the first time I used the product the glaring lack of sounds made me think it was broken or bugged. I understand that Fantasy Grounds is still fairly early in production so I would be hesitant to advocate pushing sound implementation to the top of the list. I do, however, recommend that it be on "the list" somewhere.

This applies to both dice sounds and interface sounds. I think you'd do well to include a seperate toggle for both dice and interface sounds, as well, to appease both camps.

Thanks for listening!

tarrasque
February 17th, 2005, 16:22
i would like sounds too, but the ability to toggle is essential

other than system sounds, sound effects and room descriptions or NPC speeches would be cool, perhaps in a similar way to boxed text, i.e insert the link to the sound in the storybook, then drag it into the chat window to activate at the appropriate time

Chris

richvalle
February 17th, 2005, 16:50
i would like sounds too, but the ability to toggle is essential

other than system sounds, sound effects and room descriptions or NPC speeches would be cool, perhaps in a similar way to boxed text, i.e insert the link to the sound in the storybook, then drag it into the chat window to activate at the appropriate time

Chris

This would suffer from the same 'problem' that someone just pointed out about the maps showing up on the pc's side before they are needed. Since sound files tend to be large they will need to be present like maps and would be accessable by players to play on their pc. Whatever 'fix' is done for maps would have to do the same for sound files as well.

rv

Ged
February 17th, 2005, 17:12
There are many ways of playing, of course, but I tend to think that making an audio clip of some situation might make the game seem very linear, not RPG-like. And it has the same drawback than would have NPC-portraits: The GM would need to have a portrait of every NPC, making session preparation very heavy, or players would immediately recognize important (planned) NPCs from improvised ones. With audio clips the difference would be even more dramatic. Just my personal thoughts, though.

Visigodo
February 17th, 2005, 17:16
Ok just one sound then, when is ours turn to play then ..Dooonnngg.. :D

richvalle
February 17th, 2005, 18:19
There are many ways of playing, of course, but I tend to think that making an audio clip of some situation might make the game seem very linear, not RPG-like. And it has the same drawback than would have NPC-portraits: The GM would need to have a portrait of every NPC, making session preparation very heavy, or players would immediately recognize important (planned) NPCs from improvised ones. With audio clips the difference would be even more dramatic. Just my personal thoughts, though.

Heh, I didn't even think of that. We could always tell when we were 'on track' when our dm started to read from his papers. :)