NPC Forge/Creator

[JohnD]

I have this in the DMG discussion, but looking at it I think it needs a separate thread.

I'd like a process that looks similar to what we've seen with the magic item forge. Also the Advanced Bestiary for Pathfinder/3.5e.

You have a Create NPC screen. You want to make a 5th level Variant Human Wizard who was a Soldier earlier in life, so you add/drag Wizard to the screen, change number to 5, then you add/drag Variant Human and then the Soldier background.

You then get successive pop-up screens that prompt you to make your selections as appropriate - skills, feats, spells, proficiency, specialties, personality traits, ideals, auto roll HP or assign specific number, etc...

You then want that NPC to have a Ring of Protection +3, a Staff of Fireballs, Dagger +2, seven assorted whatever potions and three scrolls of whatever spells.

You drag all those items (perhaps after having created them in the magic item forge) to the screen.

Click Create (or perhaps Preview NPC) and you quickly get a NPC screen where all the things you added are combined, modifications automatically all calculated and applied correctly, spells with descriptions and all parsing of effects etc... done.

Much easier than working through it all manually (which, yes, you can already do but it takes a long-ish time).

https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=99079

[warderbrad]

I like this idea and would love to take it a step further and suggest that Players could use it to make their characters as well. Maybe that is over-reaching but it would be a boon to the program.

[Zacchaeus]

You can do this now. For this level of NPC you'll be wanting to create a PC. So just create it as you would a PC by dragging and dropping as you would for any PC. Just keep dragging in levels until you get the right level. Choose feats and drag them in, drag in spells, magic items you'll be able to drag in from the items you have created either now or when the DMG comes out. Log into your campaign with a second client and snag the PC so that none of the players can get at him and then just drag into the CT make him hostile and away you go.

If it doesn't require this much detail start with an NPC and edit it playing around with it's AC/hp whatever and you can drag in spells for innate abilities etc.

[Zacchaeus]

I like this idea and would love to take it a step further and suggest that Players could use it to make their characters as well. Maybe that is over-reaching but it would be a boon to the program.

This IS how players create their characters now. See this (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_Character_Sheet).

[warderbrad]

This IS how players create their characters now. See this (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_Character_Sheet).
I think what the OP and I were speaking of is something that prompts for the choices to be made at each step. For instance, when making a new character or NPC you choose a class and it asks you to choose the skills and features that are applicable for that class. When you choose a background you are prompted to choose or enter the Bonds, Flaws and Ideals and make other choices based on the background (like for the guild artisan background having to choose what craft you followed).
I am not saying that it is not possible to make a character or NPC with the current system, I have made many, I am just saying that it would make the job easier. As a DM who is working on a custom setting and campaign this kind of thing would save lots of time. The point was to make it less about dragging this and that to the sheet and automate and prompt for the decisions along the way.
I could be wrong about what the intent of the OP was and if so then my suggestion would be for something else. However it sounds like his idea and mine are the same.

[Zacchaeus]

I think what the OP and I were speaking of is something that prompts for the choices to be made at each step. For instance, when making a new character or NPC you choose a class and it asks you to choose the skills and features that are applicable for that class. When you choose a background you are prompted to choose or enter the Bonds, Flaws and Ideals and make other choices based on the background (like for the guild artisan background having to choose what craft you followed).
I am not saying that it is not possible to make a character or NPC with the current system, I have made many, I am just saying that it would make the job easier. As a DM who is working on a custom setting and campaign this kind of thing would save lots of time. The point was to make it less about dragging this and that to the sheet and automate and prompt for the decisions along the way.
I could be wrong about what the intent of the OP was and if so then my suggestion would be for something else. However it sounds like his idea and mine are the same.

Yeah, I kind of got what you were saying and in many ways I'm playing devil's advocate. What you are looking for is something like HeroLab. Unfortunately it can't do 5e yet but I'd keep an eye on it.

[ddavison]

I love the idea of generators and I put together a huge list of them that I'd like to see be added to FG at some point. It's all going to take a fair amount of time to add those though, and it has to be worked in with the move to Unity and with other new releases and coding. Keep the ideas flowing, though. It is nice to hear that users are wanting some of the same things that I personally want to have inside FG.

[Nylanfs]

Soon as WotC announces their new 5e license (and it allows us to) PCGen will have a 5e gamemode and dataset. It already works now.

[Wonderbringer]

I would much rather see a generator that would take all the NPCs from appendix B of the MM and be able to add the adjustments for any humanoid race.

[poppy_thompson]

Yeah, I kind of got what you were saying and in many ways I'm playing devil's advocate. What you are looking for is something like HeroLab. Unfortunately it can't do 5e yet but I'd keep an eye on it.

Knowing a little bit about you and your knowledge, this statement made me tingle a little.

[JohnD]

I would much rather see a generator that would take all the NPCs from appendix B of the MM and be able to add the adjustments for any humanoid race.

Yeah I don't see why that would be a stretch for this to accomplish. But really adjusting for race requires a lot less work than pulling together an NPC from scratch.

[jshauber]

The guys have already done something similar with the Advance Bestiary from Green Ronin for Pathfinder. Drag and drop a monster, add a template on top of it and BAM!, new creature with added features.

It is probably something they have to get permission from WotC to do and then find the time to do it.

Would be a great addition though.

[Zephyros]

... Log into your campaign with a second client and snag the PC so that none of the players can get at him and ....

This is the step that I have a hard time to like (and is not so trivial to new DMs)... one client have already a lot of RAM consumption, two?

[damned]

you dont need to keep the second client open. you just have to open the PCs once and they become associated with your username and thus are not available for the players to choose/peek...

[WishX]

I've always wondered why the mechanism to create a PC and an NPC aren't the same. I think it would be a good idea. For example, when creating a character (whether PC or NPC), the mechanism would be the same and you denote (perhaps with a checkbox or radio button) whether it will be a PC which puts it in the PC pool, or is an NPC which is in the NPC pool and can be imported into or added to modules somehow. Maybe drag and drop? Just spitballing here.

[Moon Wizard]

It's because, in almost every RPG system, the NPCs are much simpler records than the PCs, and there is not always a direct one-to-one mapping between the two record types.

CoC actually supports PC to NPC mapping and back, but the PC/NPC records are simpler in that system. Even then, custom code rules and assumptions have to be built to support it.

Regards,
JPG

[Zacchaeus]

I've always wondered why the mechanism to create a PC and an NPC aren't the same. I think it would be a good idea. For example, when creating a character (whether PC or NPC), the mechanism would be the same and you denote (perhaps with a checkbox or radio button) whether it will be a PC which puts it in the PC pool, or is an NPC which is in the NPC pool and can be imported into or added to modules somehow. Maybe drag and drop? Just spitballing here.

The main problem with that is for a normal NPC you don't need anything like as much information as for a PC and for a PC you need a lot more detail than is contained in the NPC sheet. Although PC and NPC are not mutually exclusive there are significant differences; enough that a shared sheet would not be optimal.

[WishX]

The main problem with that is for a normal NPC you don't need anything like as much information as for a PC and for a PC you need a lot more detail than is contained in the NPC sheet. Although PC and NPC are not mutually exclusive there are significant differences; enough that a shared sheet would not be optimal.
Recently, I was trying to create NPCs for a city that might be recruited into battle by my PCs and might become a more integral part of the campaign, but otherwise, they would just remain in the town. I thought it would be a good idea to flesh out the NPCs as much as possible beforehand and found it's not an optimal scenario. The same goes the other way where, in a storyline, perhaps a PC is retiring to a city and will no longer be played, but will be a central NPC to the storyline and would maybe bleed over into other homegrown modules. This is where PC/NPC toggle would be optimal. I personally prefer to flesh out my NPCs more than the current system allows. I can see how not everyone would want or need to fill in all the requisite information for every NPC they create, but the option to do so would be appreciated.

[epithet]

I'll tell you what I would like. I'd like to be able to drag a weapon from the PHB onto an NPC's actions and have it create a melee attack using the NPC's CR and stats. Also, a drag-and-drop list of traits from the DMG's section on making NPCs would be pretty great, especially if FG accommodated DMs keeping their own "homebrew" library of NPC traits, too.

[Zacchaeus]

Recently, I was trying to create NPCs for a city that might be recruited into battle by my PCs and might become a more integral part of the campaign, but otherwise, they would just remain in the town. I thought it would be a good idea to flesh out the NPCs as much as possible beforehand and found it's not an optimal scenario. The same goes the other way where, in a storyline, perhaps a PC is retiring to a city and will no longer be played, but will be a central NPC to the storyline and would maybe bleed over into other homegrown modules. This is where PC/NPC toggle would be optimal. I personally prefer to flesh out my NPCs more than the current system allows. I can see how not everyone would want or need to fill in all the requisite information for every NPC they create, but the option to do so would be appreciated.

For both those scenarios I'd create PCs rather then NPCs. As noted above just make sure that you tag the characters as belonging to the DM so that the players can't access them. You could also use the Notes on the NPC to store a bunch of information but, again, not perhaps optimal.

[damned]

Recently, I was trying to create NPCs for a city that might be recruited into battle by my PCs and might become a more integral part of the campaign, but otherwise, they would just remain in the town. I thought it would be a good idea to flesh out the NPCs as much as possible beforehand and found it's not an optimal scenario. The same goes the other way where, in a storyline, perhaps a PC is retiring to a city and will no longer be played, but will be a central NPC to the storyline and would maybe bleed over into other homegrown modules. This is where PC/NPC toggle would be optimal. I personally prefer to flesh out my NPCs more than the current system allows. I can see how not everyone would want or need to fill in all the requisite information for every NPC they create, but the option to do so would be appreciated.

When you look at the PHB it contains 13 classes or thereabouts...
The Monster Manual contains several hundred entries...
They are different and they are different in the majority of RPGs. Recoding them in FG to be the same would be a monumental undertaking and its not an oft requested feature so I dont think its likely to happen...
If you think they need to have more detail I would create them as PCs. If you thought they *might* need more detail I would set them up as NPCs still. The time to create a PC vs an NPC... Id do the double handling if/when it is needed.

That just my 5c worth :bandit: