Question: Organization for first time FG DM (possible PotA spoilers)

[ffujita]

I used to play AD&D back in the day, and played FG5E for about 12 hours as a player, and I've jumped in with both feet, to DM my own FG 5E Princes of the Apocalypse campaign. I was wondering about organizational strategy. I've watched the video and believe I know how to create modules (though I haven't actually done it yet). Should I just use the PotA materials as is (I've already created some simple maps for the level 1 adventures), or break those materials down into smaller modules. If so, how small? For a start I was thinking I'd have a module for Red Larch pre-sinkhole, for all of the level 1 and level 2 adventures, and for the post sink-hole Red Larch. But then I'm a little stuck on how to organize the rest of the material (maybe because while I've looked it all over, I haven't really had time to digest all the info). Do experienced DMs just use the purchased campaigns as is, or do they (you) break them down into smaller, more managable modules? If you do break the campaigns into smaller modules, how do you do it (not electronically, I think I know that, but) conceptually so that you have the minimum of stuff to ignore while you're running an adventure, but you're not switching back and forth between modules during any single play session.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[Zacchaeus]

I think the first thing you would want to do is read the module so that you understand it. It is broken down into chapters - I'm not sure I follow what you mean by breaking it down. There is a flow to the adventure which you would follow.

You might also want to take a look at these maps (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?25083-Princes-of-the-Apocalypse-Maps).

[whiteTiki]

In my experience I purchase the campaigns which I must say, are lovely done by the DEV Team here and are incredibly practical. In my case, Players and DM (me) agreed to purchase the FG Module together so it really isn't that expensive. We're 6 in total which adds up to aprox. $8.00 USD per person for an adventure that's going to last up to 10 months or so ($0.80 Cents/month), and the time you save compared to doing it by yourself its amazing.

Now, attending your specific question, I'm not that experienced in creating modules or stories but I can share with you that the Dev Team does it all with 1 module beautifully organized in the story section including tabs that separate each chapter (kind of like the separate modules you're talking about). Inside those tabs (which belong to the STORY section), you find a list of events, encounters, treasure, general story and even the official maps.

I hope it helps, cheers.

[ffujita]

Thanks for linking to the maps! I'm totally gonna use em.

Let me infer that what you're saying is that as an experienced FGDM you don't have any problems opening the PotA module and using it as is, possibly including some extra maps.

The story has 13 chapters, and the one that I've been immersing myself in most is Chapter 6, since that's where the campaign will begin. The Chapter 6 organization is horrible -- including the level 1 adventures with side excursions, and maybe 60-70 entries. So the story window needs to be wide enough to navigate through the 13 chapters, and long enough so that you can find the right entry. That's a lot of screen real estate. Maybe all I need to do is reformat Campaign into two or three sub modules each with four or five chapters and the Chapters so that (for example) Chapter 6 only has four entries 6.01, 6.02, 6.03, and 6.04, and each of those entries only includes one level. For example 6.04 eight entries, each corresponding to one of the side treks, and then maybe *not* breaking 6.04.08 down into separate sub-pages.

Many of the chapters don't have anything to do with the story ... There's one on Races, which only has a single entry, for the Genasi, but not one for the Arrakocra, Deep Gnome or Goliath. The Spells chapter doesn't do anything except link to the spells in the EEPC. etc. So at a minimum I'd rather have a module that is focused on playing the campaign that leaves out all the stuff you need to know before you start, but you won't ever use while you're actually playing (If I need to know something about the Genasi, I'm always going to go to the EEPC, not Appendix A in the story).

After saying all of that -- I am aware that I've never GMed in FG yet, and there may be benefits to the original organization that I in my ignorance am unable to see.

[whiteTiki]

In a few words:

Yes, I really dont mind opening the PotA the way as it is and using it, but I must say I totally feel you man. Definetely PotA is the worst of all. (At least from the ones I've seen and DM'ed; LMoP, HotDQ, RoT and PotA). You open the book and really have absolutely no clue on whats happening, where does the story even begin until you get to Chapter 6 and realize. I think I've never seen a so poorly organized D&D Adventure before and its not like this company has just 3 years on the map... I really was like WTF?

To answer 2 of your comments:
1.- In my opinion, if someone in this world has the courage to even attempt to correct all those mistakes in the book will definitely disserve some reward from the Wizards Community (leaving FG out of this cause its not their fault)
2.- As a DM I haven't seen any advantages yet of the story being organized the way it is, so if you have the time to change the distribution of chapters and information in the book you'll definitely have a better time when searching for the stuff you need. I don't think anyone needs to be a genius to make that book better organized, sending stuff to the appendix, creating a specific chapter for all the background story and organize the story in an easy way to follow, but then again, it takes a lot of time.

Anyways, about the FG content available, well its like the book but inside the software. Their job is simply to trespass the information they find in the official content to the software and to keep the most resemblance possible I guess.

cheers

[hereander]

What I usually do with the original fg-modules like PotA is that I create my own structure using the notes elements in FG. You can just drag chapters from the original module into the notes window to create a link.
Take this https://thecampaign20xx.blogspot.de/2015/04/elemental-evil-guide-to-princes-of.html?m=1 as your guideline and create your own index using the WotC Module (if you have purchased it)

[Trenloe]

What I usually do with the original fg-modules like PotA is that I create my own structure using the notes elements in FG. You can just drag chapters from the original module into the notes window to create a link.
This is a good idea, assuming you mean Story entries rather than Notes?

Notes are really meant for the use of players, you can't categorise them (organise them in tabs) and you can't export them into a module if you'd like that option. I'd recommend you use Story entries for this organisation, not notes.

[whiteTiki]

Iff you ask me, what hereander said its your best option. Purchasing the content and reorganizing it to your best needs. That way you get the official content, save the time of creating the entire story by yourself and have it organized the way you want it to be.

Personally I organize myself by dragging parts of the story I know I'll need to the shortcuts. That way you will always have what you need just by pressing an F key. Usually I change shortcuts once each 4-8 sessions (once each month or two), so you really have time to learn your own shortcuts and use them to optimize the way you DM

[ffujita]

Thanks for the feedback! Let me say, I totally think it's worth the money to not have to type -- or scan and parse -- for me. But I think I will be doing some reorganization. I guess my original question was if anyone had done so already, and maybe share their org chart it'd make things easier for me. If I end up doing this, maybe I'll post a module that includes my organization, so you'd only have to drag and drop the elements from your PotA into the top level story entries to make a much more user friendly Story. And now that I've looked at hereander's link -- I'm totally going to make use of that!

[Zacchaeus]

I'm sorry but I can't see that PotA is all that badly organised, but maybe it's just that I read the whole thing a number of times when I was tracking down errors etc.

The story begins at ch 1.12 and it tells you there exactly how to use the module. If you are starting at level 1 then it refers you to chapter 6 and the first 3 links of that chapter you would take your players through in the order given. If you are starting at level 3 or if the players have reached level 3 via ch6 then you move on to chapter 3. You will be referred back to chapter 6 at various points in chapters 3-5. As I say you need to actually read through the material and get a good understanding of it before you start using it. You don't need to have the whole of chapter 6 open at once. 6.00 only has four links and you only need to have one of those open when you are going through it, then you close that and open the next one. 6.04 has all the entries for the side treks and clicking on one of those opens up that one side trek only. It just takes a little bit of time to understand how the module is presented.

[ffujita]

I started to try to create a module that would contain only the Level 1-4 stuff, organized in a straightforward way for bears of little mind to use. I ran into my first problem. Maps from the PotA module won't drag into my campaign Images and Maps chapter. If this is DRM, then I'm stuck in the water, and will have to increase my familiarity with the module to match Zacchaeus'. Otoh, if there is a simple option that I haven't toggled, I'd love it if someone could help me out.

I suppose even with DRM, I could organize my campaign Story, and then ignore all of the blue chapters (since I won't be able to close the PotA module) in my Story sheet.

[Trenloe]

You can't drag (copy) Images/Maps from a module into your campaign. All you can do is drag image links to Story/NPC/Item entries and a link to the module image will be created. However, you have to keep the module open in order to be able to access the links.

You can reorganize the module images into your own tab (category) in the Images/Maps list. Right click on one of the tabs at the bottom and select "Add New Group" to create a new tab. Then you can drag the images you want into this tab. You still need to have the module open, but it at least gives you a way of keeping just the images you want in just one place.

You can also create Story entries with all of the links to the images you're interested in.

If you're not interested in all of the blue tabs in the story list for the module you have to keep open, you can right click on the right most tab and select "Delete Group", this will delete the group and merge the entries to the next left group. This will allow you to delete a few groups and keep just one for the module. Not great if you plan to access the story entries at some point in the future as they'll just be in one big list, but if you're not interested in them it will reduce the number of tabs.

[Zacchaeus]

Another thing you can do, is to add some more links to the existing story entries which link back and forward to other bits of the module so that the story progresses the way you want it. If you have the Out of the Abyss module have a look at how TASAgent linked that one up. Every story entry there linked back to the chapter in which the story resided, linked to the next and previous entries and to the main story list.

However, as ever, Trenloe's advice is as solid as it gets.

[ffujita]

Thanks! Very useful information.

[rob2e]

Also this flowchart may be helpful.

https://i.imgur.com/rSsdDGU.jpg

[ffujita]

Very useful -- Thanks!