Additional Racial Ability Mods

[tildenthorne]

Is there a system in place to handle the additional ability mods the races give (such as a Half-elf's two +1's) or does this have to be done with simple brute force editing (seems a clunky way to me). Skills have a pop-up in some circumstances (though not others)... Wondering why such pop-ups are not more common, especially in situations like the ability score mods. Sorry if this has come up before.

[kylania]

Is a popup really needed? You can just Ctrl-Scroll up to add 1 to whichever attributes you wanted which is less work than having a popup where you have to select two then confirm the choice.

I guess it would be handy in a "hey, don't forget this step" way, but FG isn't technically a character builder so just like in pen and paper you're supposed to know and remember to add your extra points where you want them.

[tildenthorne]

A piece of software should attempt to make things easier... FG does a lot of that... It could go much further though, and in the future I do hope they introduce such things. Anyway anyone can make pen&paper RPG's easier to get into will do massive things for the industry... Such bits of polish as to which I speak would go far in that goal. It would make getting characters ready much easier for noobs and old-hats.

[damned]

Hi tildenthorne you can go here: https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/ type in a couple of keywords and if something similar pops up vote on it otherwise add it in. The SmoiteWorks team is only small and they are working on lots of different things. They do grab requests from here when they can.

[Redemption77]

Ive never found that to be an issue. Im already typing in my stat anyway so if I get a +1 to strength and Wisdom because thats what I want for being a half elf I just add 1 to the number Im putting in. I dont think its making the process too much to handle or overly laborious.

[tildenthorne]

It is not really the "laborious" issue... In fact just setting your abilities is easier IF you know the rules forward and back... For players that don't, pop-ups would be nice! Plus the fact that some things have pop ups and others do not actually makes things MORE confusing. I think this is a wonderful product that needs to leave "just for hardcore gamers"... That is my big point, really...

[Trenloe]

I think we all agree, it would be a nice addition.

FG devs have always said that they have never intended to make FG a character generator. With 5E, Zeus started adding drag/drop functionality beyond anything that was ever done before. Which was great. But this is then a slippery slope, as now the expectation is that everything is drag/drop functionality when creating a character. Now the devs have to spend more time catering for "character generation" functionality, than doing other work (creating a DMG library, keeping up with WotC releases, bug fixing, developing the new Unity version, etc., etc..).

Don't get me wrong, I like the drag/drop functionality of the character related library entries, and if SmiteWorks had a hoard of developers I'd like them to continue. But, do I want the small number of FG devs to concentrate on trying to make this a full 100% complete character generator at the expense of other development? No. I'd rather they get a happy medium of "nearly there" and cover most of the main things than spend lots and lots of effort doing the final 20% (which takes 80% of the work) and keeping up with every nuance of new products, that frequently would necessitate code changes. Doing "only" 80% allows the very small development team to do the things listed above - the main one being moving towards Unity which will allow the devs to consider a lot of the "must have" functionality people have been asking about for quite a long time: https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

[tildenthorne]

Again... For me... A user, the issue is how "mixed-up" things feel... Somethings work one way in a certain circumstance and another way at another time... It gets confusing and easy to forget things. I am not meaning to pick a fight here... This is fabulous software, but the ways it is rough will keep many people from actually embracing it and that is sad... I will be searching the boards here for games because my game table wants nothing to do with it. They, like me are a bunch of players who started in the late 70's as wee kids. It is a bummer they are not into adopting it as space makes it hard to game these days... Cost was also mentioned... But I would help them if the could get into the software. I lost my pitch though... But I am in! I think it's great! Just a little rough.

[Trenloe]

I think you need to look at how *much* character creation help 5E gives you compared to the other FG rulesets - then you won't think the 5E side is "a little rough". Like I said, it was a very slippery slope when the drag/drop automation for most of the character creation aspects was added to the 5E ruleset. Now the expectation is that it has to do everything for character creation. This will never be the case. Sorry this mean you think it's rough. I think it's super shiny! :)

You need to pitch that FG is a "virtual" table top that allows you and your friends to get together for gaming without having to "get together" face-to-face. Don't pitch it as a character generator - play the whole of that side down. It is not a character generator. Get past the character generation phase and get playing - that's where you'll win them over. That is where FG has been excelling for over 10 years. Get running the game - your players will love it! Just like these folks: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?25800-I-ran-my-first-Fantasy-Grounds-game-today-players-loved-it!

[tildenthorne]

Wow... Touched a nerve I guess. I tried with my friends... You know how people can get when confronted with new ways of doing things. I "get it" completely... And was frustrated when others I hoped would "get it" did not... My friends play 5e... I have become a Fate Core freak (which you have a great set up for). Sorry I ruffled feathers. I'll be on my way...

[Trenloe]

Yes, calling it "rough" did touch a bit of a nerve. You're new - I might forgive you. ;)

I'm just trying to set expectations, let you know where the system has come from and what the developers have said about what the system is designed to do. There have been people similar to you over the years that have come in and, while learning the software, have had a similar opinion and made similar statements. In time most of those have come to know that SmiteWorks isn't a large company with many full time developers, they can't spend all of their time delivering that final 20% of functionality otherwise nothing else will get done. They've accepted that and embraced all of the many fantastic things that Fantasy Grounds can do for them and their gaming needs. And, to be perfectly honest, having 100% automation means that we're now playing an MMO more than and RPG - and the system won't cater for people house ruling or wanting to modify the operation of a specific ruleset or do things a little differently "just this one time". That's something that most people won't want. The devs have always said they aim to get 80% of the functionality present in a ruleset - beyond that there are diminishing returns trying to code for every possibility.

[tildenthorne]

I may have been new... But I am out... Rude?! To a paying customer?! Whatever man... At this point... I would take a refund. But since I bought this through Steam... That will be too much trouble. You just chased away a paying customer who was trying to bring in more paying customers! Really?! I hope you at least feel vindicated! I actually like this software!!! Or did you not notice! This is truly the strangest customer service experience I have ever had! Seriously... you need to steel your nerves or something! Losing customers over pride is a bit silly... IMHO...

[Trenloe]

I'm really sorry tildenthorne. I went overboard with my explanations. I wasn't intending to be rude and I certainly wasn't trying to drive you away or ignore your opinion. I don't work for SmiteWorks, I'm just an active community member. Sorry again, please don't let me clumsy miscommunication drive you away from an otherwise great community and fantastic product that will give you many hours of RPGing delight.

[JohnD]

I guess the "rudeness" has been excised from the narrative here? I don't see any (and in the past I've been accused of it so I try to retain some hyper sensitivity). Certainly Trenloe or damned are the last I would expect anything but helpful responses from after 3+ years of experience on these boards....

tildenthorne your general suggestion is a good one - whenever possible there should be a set of assumptions one can rely upon. In 5E I guess the assumption is that drag and drop is implemented everywhere. In general I think most everyone agrees with the thrust of your point, but are trying to explain that it isn't that way right now, nor will it likely be in the future with respect to character generation. You seem to be interpreting that as rudeness (perhaps I have missed something).

When I came to FG I had great hopes of bringing together my old gaming group from all over the USA and Canada. I was surprised when nobody was interested, even when I had gone ahead and bought the Ultimate license, so there would be no cost to them. So I just went ahead and assembled new groups from the general population here. It sounds like your group would prefer to not play over playing online... that's a shame but it is truly their individual and collective loss... there are people here among whom you will find a new group should you be so inclined.

[Crymoricus]

Your impression that you "ruffled feathers" is probably wrong, tild. No one's feathers look ruffled at all here, reading over it. It's easy to form a false impression of emotion on forums, I think.

Anyway, as a simple member of the community here, I'd like to just say: stick around!

[tildenthorne]

LISTEN! My suggestion has little to do with 5e and more to do with software design... Software should present a unified interface. The fact that in some circumstances a pop-up happens for skill selection for example but at other times it does not IS extremely frustrating. There are bits of the software that do not follow any form of a pattern (like most all modern software). If you focus solely on the fact that I mention 5e... You have missed my point.

By the way... However you slice it "You're new - I might forgive you" is just plain rude... Not to mention that in context... That is exactly how he felt, he was just using an emoticon to "pad" the delivery.

Relationships 101a "Not wise to TELL someone their emotions are probably wrong... Tried that with your lady lately?" I get your point... Even though you are clearly not seeing mine.

[dulux-oz]

OK guys, I think this has run its course.

Everyone has had their say, I think everyone understands where everyone stands, and I think that there are some good ideas here - from everyone!

Yes, FG could use some work - we all agree on that - and yes, there are historical reasons for it being the way it is, and some of us "old boys" can get protective of the software we love so much, but one of the great strengths of FG is its friendly community, so let's try to all remember that - new and old - and try to remember that the written word looses the "body language" part of the communication, so try to take that into account and remember that, contrary to how we may read things, its not (normally) personal.

We need new people and we need the old-hands, let's try to keep things welcoming to all - shall we? :)

Just my $0.02 worth

Cheers