Converting old adventures into 5e

[GBE300]

I know there are multiple posts throughout the forums I've read a lot of them, But I wanted to start a discussion more about the after effects of converting on game play and what methods you thought to be the best. I'm starting to create some standby modules for a homebrew game and I am curious what method you used and how it worked in your game... not really focused on the how did you do this portion of your method.

So...

If you've converted an old adventure (1e or higher) to 5E, what method (drop in current 5E, use a converter tool or build the npcs yourself) did you use and how did your players find it?

How did you deal with items and spell abilities that don't or shouldn't exist post spell plague ? Di you limit the item numbers, decrease their power (or both) did you find you had to then start up-scaling your mobs since 5E really assumes you don't have any magical gear?

I'm a bit worried I will over or under scale not just this current content, but later content based on what they have found along the way. All opinions are valid and appreciated.

Cheers.

[Zacchaeus]

It's kinda difficult to give a definitive answer here, since it depends on a number of factors, including the size of your group and how they like to play.

I converted some 4e modules to 5e; luckily I had the pdf's for them so I was able to drag and drop a lot of the text into story entries.

As far as monsters were concerned I used the equivalent 5e ones where this was practical. You might find this blog (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?23051-Scales-of-War-conversion) useful since the author describes in some detail what he has done. I also use his excel spreadsheet to determine encounter difficulty. I didn't find it too hard to get the scale correct (I usually have to convert most things - even 5e stuff - since I have 6 in my group rather than 4).

Sometimes of course there are no equivalent NPCs so you'll have to substitute. Again, however this isn't too difficult since all you need to find are NPCs which are more or less the same CR. The Monster Manual list by CR is useful for finding those.

One thing I will say is to try and not give out too many magic items. My first campaign had too much magic and it did rather make things too easy. From what I have seen and experienced the treasure tables in the DMG do a pretty good job of introducing magic items at around the correct level.

[jshauber]

When you create an encounter in 5e there is a small circle arrow thing near the CR entry. You can click that and it will calculate the CR and XP for the encounter. You can then add/subtract from it and hit the arrow again to recalculate the new values.

Saves having to put stuff in a spreadsheet or do it by hand.

[Trenloe]

Use similar creatures where possible from the MM or other available sources (e.g. Frog God Games Fifth Edition Foes (https://www.froggodgames.com/fifth-edition-foes)) and pay attention to the CR of the encounter (as mentioned above).

If you have to tweek/modify/create a monster then estimate the CR of the creature based off the info in Chapter 9 of the DMG: "Creating a Monster" - Step 4 on page 274 gives you info on calculating the challenge rating.

[kylania]

The Monster Manual list by CR is useful for finding those.

Here's a super pretty one too! https://www.theilluminerdy.com/2014/09/18/5e-monster-manual-monsters-by-challenge-rating/

[dj-wedge]

...One thing I will say is to try and not give out too many magic items. My first campaign had too much magic and it did rather make things too easy. From what I have seen and experienced the treasure tables in the DMG do a pretty good job of introducing magic items at around the correct level.

THIS!
This many times over.

I made the mistake of giving out magic items in my custom campaign far too early. Now it's near impossible to actually challenge the party in any meaningful way. I'm running a second campaign with a different group of friends where I'm being far less generous and the effect is astonishingly different. The group thinks carefully and there is a lot more role playing. The "early magic" group has essentially figured out that they can just face-roll everything.

And you'd think that simply cranking up the CR of the opposing monsters could counter this effect, but the tipping point is rather sudden and dramatic. So be careful there.

The other significant challenge to converting is DCs for checks/searches/whatnot. D&D 3 and 4 both had escalating challenges while 5e has a flat difficulty class system. So you have to really get "under the skin" of the original text to determine if what the author intended was supposed to be easy, moderate, difficult, etc.

[GBE300]

Thanks all, my main concern was just making sure I get the encounters strong enough to make it challenging but not so challenging they struggle. When using various converter tools the stats are close to the 5e ones but slightly off... say 79 HP instead of 112 HP in one case. Between that and the amount of items or quality of items I was worried I would be doing more harm then good in how I converted the module. So your experience as a DM with your players is what I was looking for, Thanks Wedge and Zacc as your answers hit the nail on the head! Cheers.

[Zacchaeus]

Don't forget too that 5e has a mechanic called 'bounded accuracy'. You might find this (https://olddungeonmaster.wordpress.com/2014/08/30/bounded-accuracy/) helpful in explaining the finer points. Basically this means that a harder monster will have more HP rather than awesome AC or other features. It also means that even low level monsters can provide the PCs with a challenge if there are enough of them, unlike in previous iterations where the PCs AC would become so high that low level monsters couldn't even hit them. I haven't used any converter tools so I can't comment but I have found Appendix B of the Monster Manual particularly useful for finding equivalent generic NPCs for many of the NPCs I converted from 4e modules - at least as a starting point.

[kylania]

That was a super cool article Zacchaeus! Thanks for sharing. I guess I'd realized that was happening in 5E but hadn't thought about it quite like that article presented it. I do enjoy being effective at all levels now.

[damned]

I made the mistake of giving out magic items in my custom campaign far too early. Now it's near impossible to actually challenge the party in any meaningful way.

have the party encounter a dead zone where magic has no effect... make sure they are well and truly IN IT before they realise and make them work their arses off to get out in one piece...

[dj-wedge]

have the party encounter a dead zone where magic has no effect... make sure they are well and truly IN IT before they realise and make them work their arses off to get out in one piece...

That's... just... evil...

I like it. I like it a lot!

[LordEntrails]

Here's my approach for converting Undermountain (UM). This one is a bit different than most since their are multiple versions of the UM and they are not really consistent.

- 1st, I picked a map, as their are numerous and inconsistent versions that have all been officially released. I used the map from the Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas (since I have Campaign Cartographer, and this is the most comprehensive mapping of the UM), except for all the additional doors and secret doors that were added to this version over the 3E version. Then, I setup a DM map to pin all the story elements to.
- 2nd, I have most of the previously published versions (Ruins of..., Ruins of ...II, Expedition to..., Halls of..., etc), so I was able to copy room descriptions from them (using a pdf in most cases) and where they conflicted between the versions, I usually took the most current, as previous UM developers have tried to keep a consistent history, so have I. (for example, the Hall of Pillars started out with cartayid columns, now it's just a bunch of destroyed columns, broken hidden compartments, but the dead magic zone is still there).
- 3rd, I kept most of the traps & constructs consistent with previous publications, though I've changed enough to account for time etc. As for the trap statistics, I created them all from scratch. The damage values and DC's do not translate.
- 4th, I removed all the monster/NPC references. After all, things change. Also, I'm not keen on the previous releases obsessions with beholders and beholderkin. Too many of them, plus after a thousand years, even beholders get killed.
- 5th, I developed new power groups and have been working out the ... interactions between all of them. For instance, with the destruction of Skullport, how has this impacted the drow slave trade & supply? How has changes in Waterdeep affected things?New cults, etc. With the death of Halaster, this has affected things too.
- 6th, I've been creating the encounters based upon the power groups I determined above. I've been using 5e MM creatures where appropriate, as well as making variants and new monsters based upon the feel of AD&D monsters where applicable. With the freedom of re-populating, I can create the challenge ratings as I desire them to be. (but note, that I'm a believer is creating encounters based upon what I find logical based upon a socio-environmental feel rather than some design for "ideal" party challenge or progression.)

All that said, that probably doesn't help much if you are looking more for updating an existing adventure to the new ruleset. I have hopes to convert some of the old AD&D modules, and with those I'm thinking to use current 5E creatures, adjusting the quantities and making variants as needed to keep the feel and challenge level consistent.

[midas]

Thanks for the post, LordEntrails. I really like your thought process, especially in regards to throwing out the monsters and NPCs and starting from scratch.

I'm currently reading through the Night Below 2e box set to get a feel for all the things I'd need to change in order to convert it from 2e to 5e. Obviously major things I'll wind up keeping (aboleths, etc) and I'll need to make a 5e version of an aboleth savant, but I knew I was getting into a great deal of work (particularly with a campaign as expansive as the Night Below), and you gave me some great ideas.