tutorials and how-to's

[Ferrin]

Hey there, I rely heavily on the tuturials and how-tos of operating fantasy grounds and supplementing games in various ways. And as I was searching for a particular tutorial I vaguely remember seeing a few weeks ago and is now relevant on creating effects lists, I thought to myself I wonder if they would make a Tutorials Section below house of healing to compile the how-tos into for quick navigation. Could call it Dungeoneering 101 or some such.

[kylania]

The wiki has a bunch: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Videos

[Trenloe]

The main issue with this is that a lot of tutorials/how-to's are very specific to a ruleset. Therefore, the usual way for something "handy" for a specific ruleset is to put it as a sticky in the forum for that ruleset. This is especially true for effects as these are very ruleset specific.

EDIT: and the "House of Healing" would be the wrong forum anyway, as this is "The place to find help for technical problems running Fantasy Grounds".

[Ferrin]

I wasn't meaning in house of healing, but rather have appear under it on the main forum page. And I'm not suggesting dismantling the stickys, I am well aware of people's resistance to change and how thatd mess them up I debated with myself for an hour on whether I should suggest this at all as my suggestions have incurred vehement opposition in the past. The clock suggestion for example.. But newer people not used to the forum tend to spend more time looking for the tutorials and whatnot than actually watching the tutorials. also the wiki you have to know what your looking for to find it, which can be a nuisance when you can't remember what it's called exactly or don't know what it was called to begin with.

[Ferrin]

I can give an example, I searched and searched for a tutorial on streaming with obs. I thought the only instruction I would ever find was the set in the adventure league sticky...For weeks I could not figure out how people got multiple cameras onto obs. Til I went into the tavern and saw Vishera's tutorial, literally exactly all the info I could ever want and I never thought to check the Tavern for it.

[kylania]

There's a link at the top of the forums called Site Search (https://www.google.com/cse/publicurl?cx=010772646014076752437:l_cx3x-oggq). Putting in "streaming with obs" results in Vishera's post being the first result.

[Ferrin]

you know what nevermind, I wont make any more suggestions. Its pretty clear it's more important to nitpick at my past actions than contemplate a feature change. I don't use the site search because it usually just tells me I must wait an amount of seconds and then shows nothing at all... I'm probably using it wrong and your probably going to explain to me exactly how wrong I am.. That's always useful trying to make people feel stupid..

[kylania]

While it's true most forum searches are pretty much crap the site search I mentioned is a Google search so works a lot better then the built in searches (like the integrated Search this thread link).

I assure you that no one was trying to nitpick or tell you you're wrong, We're just trying to help you find the information you were looking for in ways you might have missed.

[Andraax]

Some people just can't take advice as anything other than criticism...

[Ferrin]

I have no such google search, in fact my only site search button is behind a link, and I have to click at it in a specifici corner just to get to that, also I am not asking for help locating things. I have already located everything I have mentioned previously. I am merely putting for the idea, that a well organized Tutorials Forum will be a great benefit to people when they are experiencing the info overload that comes along with both the forums and the software. My suggestion does not call for the removal of anything, costs nothing except some time, doesn't reinvent the wheel (in fact most info intensive forums have a how-to section and could be said to be the wheel), and can be achieved with very little effort... It will provide a place for all the new people I see popping in to teamspeak to ask about something covered in a tutorial that they had no idea existed to immediately go.. But by all means keep it like it is, people who pay what they would consider a great deal of money for a game with no immediate satisfaction love jumping through hoops just to figure out one simple function... and just so you know I'm not making an argument against I am pointing out the mindset of the people I am making this suggestion for, because those same new people I run into all the time on teamspeak usually all say the same thing. "Why does it cost so much, how do I do this, I don't know what that is, and oh I didn't see that in the forums thanks for the link." I have this conversation just about everytime I spend more than 3 hours hanging out in gen chat. A central repository, which can include ruleset specific sections, of tutorials would give considerably less hoops for new members.

[Andraax]

You don't see this button at the top of each forum page?
10699

[Ferrin]

Like I said the only button one I see is behind a white link and I gotta click at it a few times which then brings up another site search button that tells me to wait so many seconds... But hey thanks for once again going off topic, and FYI that attachment went nowhere for me and told me to contact an admin... This is what I'm talking about, every time I put forth any suggestion I get these kinda responses. Please feel free to go elsewhere and try and belittle other people Andraax. Because this is a suggestion thread not a please point things out to me thread.

[Ferrin]

Please close or delete this, it's not accomplishing what I wanted to do and see no point leaving it open for more people to pick at my words while avoiding the discussion I want to have.

[Andraax]

There is no bar across the top of the page that says "Home - What's New? - Forum - Blogs - Wiki - Store - Game Calendar - FAQ - Downloads - Site Search"?

If not, then that's probably why you're having problems finding information.

What OS & browser are you using?

No one is "nitpicking" or "belittling"; we're just trying to help you. Of course, we can't force you to accept help and advice...

[Trenloe]

@Ferrin. Your comments have merit and it's always good to have feedback from new users about their difficulty finding information.

A lot of this information is available in the Wiki (click the "Wiki" link at the top of this page) and then click the link that says "Videos. (Examples and Tutorials)":

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39085830/Screenshots/Fantasy%20Grounds/Wiki%20videos%20link.jpg

There is also a "Site Search" button as highlighted by Andraax above. The fact that this doesn't seem to work in the browser you use/or your computer setup obviously isn't helping.

These are the three main places to go for information:

The Wiki
The forums - there are ruleset specific and generic sections on the forums.
Use the site search button.


The top two items are covered by the first three "getting started" buttons that are displayed whenever you start Fantasy Grounds:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39085830/Screenshots/Fantasy%20Grounds/FG%20launch%20screen.jpg

Adding more and more sections to the forum doesn't just take "very little effort" as you mention in a previous post. Adding additional sections takes time and has to be regularly updated otherwise the info gets out of date and becomes less use. This is the main issue with doing anything like this - maintenance and update over time. Believe me, I have to regularly update extension threads and this takes me many hours of my time to make sure they're up-to-date.

The information is there, linked from quite a few places, it just seems that you're having browser issues or struggling to find the right buttons?

As Andraax says - we're not trying to belittle you, we're trying to help you by guiding you to where the information you already ask for is available. Adding more and more sections (that need to be regularly updated to remain valuable) isn't the way to go... Sorry if you feel that is ignoring your original request.

[Ferrin]

Again I am not asking for information I already know, this is not a call for aid or an explanation of the ways to find things. Previous mentions of difficulties were meant to illustrate points, which run along the same lines of why your saying it's not feasible. Your mention of the work involved in keeping the section updated and relevant relevant, your implying it's easier to keep the current system with dispersed and non centrally located areas updated... I don t buy that. I'm not an expert but I'm sure you assign specific moderators to specific forums, this guy watches that one and that guy watches the other one, by creating a tutorials forum ( and designating a mod to keep it updated) your increasing your initial workload to set up and port over the various tutorial threads and how-tos, and decreasing your upkeep work later. Also I was under the impression the person who created the tutorial was responsible for updating it, in which case why would it matter if it was here or there. It provides a central location for new tutorials and how-tos meaning less upkeep effort tracking the various areas that need updating and it won't read like a developers manual. An issue I have with the wiki, a lot of the written section assumes a level of technical knowledge I don't have. (Not an invitation to provide help reading grown up words). And on a side note, request for assistance are always handled great... Suggestions however, I have never felt were welcome and ones I have made have always involved an immediate knee jerk 'discouragement' followed soon after by people nitpicking (selecting a specific part of a statement and focusing solely on that aspect disregarding the intentions of the original statement. Like an example being used to show how something would seem complicated, used to change the subject to how I'm just doing it wrong, the fact that I did it wrong was my point not an invitation for correction) i always end up stressed after making a suggestion and I'm not alone... i even mentioned in an earlier post in this thread I was wary of making the suggestion because it generally ends up with me being super defensive and everyone saying things like "well it's not our fault you won't listen to help" I wasn't asking for help in the first place.. And the reason my browsers won't show that button likely has to do with having to change the size of everything to make the hard to see shades of text the forum uses visible enough not to give me a headache, per your suggestion awhile back.

[Ferrin]

If it's any consolation I regret making the suggestion and you don't have to feel obligated to continue the discussion which I feel is to 'side vs side' to ever be resolved.

[Andraax]

I'm starting to feel that the only thing you want to hear is "Hey, great suggestion, let's get right on that..."

[Trenloe]

It provides a central location for new tutorials and how-tos...
That already exists - it's called the Wiki. No need to recreate it in another place. That is what people have been trying to say here - the Wiki is the location where stuff like this resides or should go, not another section in the forum.


I'm not an expert but I'm sure you assign specific moderators to specific forums, this guy watches that one and that guy watches the other one
No, we don't have that. We're a very, very small community with few moderators.

If anyone wants to take on the task of going through the forum threads and amalgamating/linking them into pages that can be published in the Wiki then I'm sure everyone will be happy to support that. This is not a small task and will require frequent updates/maintenance. But if someone is willing to do that, then it would be great.

Any volunteers?

[Ferrin]

no Andraax I didn't just want to hear that I wanted an actual discussion of the pros and cons, which so far only Trenlo has provided. All you did was try and point out my inability to see a button, which I mentioned previously was there just under a link. Also I remember your part in the clock debate it went along the similar lines of picking out parts of statements to dwell on... im fine with what trenloe is saying, I get his side it would take a lot... But I also know they are really trying to bring up new player retention and that will take effort. This was a suggestion that could help them with that. Also this community is a lot larger than you've given credit, most people however are lurkers or use the forum sparingly for resources because talking to people like Andraax is akin to pulling teeth.

[Andraax]

Ah, the "clock debate". Wherein I pointed out tools that would solve the problem you brought up and you just insisted how those tools were not your solution and therefore should be ignored?

[Trenloe]

I'm closing this thread now as I think it's run its course.

If anyone would like to put together some Wiki entries for tutorials, etc. (see post #19 above), please start another thread in the relevant section of the forums. You can't edit Wiki entries directly, the proposed text will need to be provided to SmiteWorks for review and upload. Thanks.