Logic Flaw in Effects

[Nickademus]

When an effect is added, FG assigns an initiative number to it (some rulesets may vary). This number is used to determine when the duration expires or actions happen. The problem is that more than one creature can have the same initiative and this can lead to improper automation of the effects.

For instance:
Player 1 uses a 1-round-duration defensive ability effect on his turn at initiative 16.
Bad Guy 3 also has initiative 16 and has a higher initiative modifier, placing him before Player 1 in the Combat Tracker.
It becomes Bad Guy 3's turn; since it is now initiative 16, the defensive ability on Player 1 expires.
Bad Guy 3 attacks Player 1 and Player 1 gains no automated bonus from the defensive effect that should last until the beginning of HIS turn.

[kylania]

Try setting the effect to expire on 15.9, so it expires after all 16 inits but before 15s.

[Nylanfs]

"That's not a flaw, that a Feature!" :)

[Nickademus]

Try setting the effect to expire on 15.9, so it expires after all 16 inits but before 15s.

It needs to expire at the beginning of the creator's turn if it is measured in rounds. What if there is another Bad Guy on initiative 16 that has a smaller initiative bonus than Player 1 (and thus goes after Player 1). The player would still have the defensive effect even though his turn has come and gone.

The point is that effects with durations should be tied to creator by default, not the initiative number. For the less frequent situations where an effect needs to be applied at a specific initiative number (like someone on fire taking burn damage), there can be an option to apply it on the initiative number of the creator (or target, or the turn of the target, or the end of the turn of the creator or target). Effects are luxury and don't need to be used. But if they are going to be used, situations like this can make the game very confusing when effects disappear at the wrong time.

[damned]

I believe that the way you are requesting is how it was setup originally and it was changed because with changing INIT every round you could be the last actor in round X and the first actor in round Y and your effect doesnt actually ever apply to anything at all... that is just off the top of my head though so its possible ive mis-remembered or just made it all up...

[Trenloe]

And there is the additional issue of some effects needing to expire at the end of the actor's turn, not the beginning.

And then, for rulesets where an actor can change their init (delay or ready for 3.5E/Pathfinder, for example) this screws short term expiration effects even more.

[Zacchaeus]

I am going to have to disagree that effects are a luxury; for me they are the powerhouse of what Fantasy Grounds can do. :)

[Nickademus]

And there is the additional issue of some effects needing to expire at the end of the actor's turn, not the beginning.
There are several ways the effect can expire. FG can't accommodate all of them so I would assume it would use the most prevalent occurrence unless it caused trouble (in which case it would use the second most prevalent). I believe the spell/ability duration measured in rounds or minutes is the most prevalent.


And then, for rulesets where an actor can change their init (delay or ready for 3.5E/Pathfinder, for example) this screws short term expiration effects even more.
So implement both (well, all five). Add a UI rotator in the Effect Action Window to the right of the Units rotator called 'Expires' that cycles through 'Caster's Turn Start', 'Caster's Turn End', 'Target's Turn Start', 'Target's Turn End', and 'Initiative On Cast' values. Then the user can decide when best to end the effect.

[Crymoricus]

I am going to have to disagree that effects are a luxury; for me they are the powerhouse of what Fantasy Grounds can do. :)

Boy, I have to agree with this vehemently. Uproariously, even. Hell, it's one of the main reasons I purchased it. Besides that, maps, and tokens, why wouldn't I just use a chat room?

The more options for automation the better, period. There's no reason I can think of to claim otherwise. If you don't want to use an optional feature, don't. But I'd think that for most folks out there, automation options are a big, fat lure to VTT's.

[Trenloe]

Besides that, maps, and tokens, why wouldn't I just use a chat room?
Character sheets, NPC sheets, items, combat tracker, story entries, saving of all data between sessions, etc..

But yes, effects are a powerful part of Fantasy Grounds, but not the only reason to use FG - nor do you *have* to use effects if you don't want to...