Question On Effects.

[bnickelsen]

For a Ring Of Protection (Text = Plus 1 AC and Plus 1 Saves)

Creating an "effect" as follows "Ring;AC:1;Save all 1"


question 1 Is that the right syntax?
question 2 Could I expect

Opt a: To see the AC and saves on the PC character sheet change to reflect this adjustment?Opt a

Pot b: Just applies when an attack or saves roll is made?

[Thegroo]

1. Shoul be "Ring; AC:1;SAVE:1"
2. Opt b. The effect just applies when an attack or save is made. But it will get stated in the chat window.

[kylania]

You would use: Ring;AC: 1;SAVE: 1

Save needed to be SAVE and the all is assumed.

As you noticed however the number isn't actually displayed, not even in the roll, but it does count.

https://i.imgur.com/0WDNAPB.jpg

Test Fighter has an AC of 18 normally, with the AC: 1 effect this roll of 18 missed him since the system knew his modified AC was 19 even though it's not shown on the character sheet.

The Saving Throw example is for your next question about SAVE: 1 strength only affecting STR instead of all saves. It did add the +1 to the +4 STR modifier he has.

For just a roll you'd create it as a power on the character and have them click the button to apply it:

https://i.imgur.com/KddUqUS.jpg

[bnickelsen]

Just for clarity then if the save only applied to one type then I would use "Ring;AC: 1;SAVE: strength 1" as an example?

[kylania]

SAVE: 1 strength

[bnickelsen]

SAVE: 1 strength

Thank you Tested and working as expected. Case sensitivity gets me every time. and the order they go in. But it is working so Woot.

[kylania]

Read more about effects here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_Effects

I also cleaned up my example above a bit. Was clicking on the wrong sheet! heh

[bnickelsen]

Read more about effects here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_Effects

I also cleaned up my example above a bit. Was clicking on the wrong sheet! heh

Believe it or not I had the page open, it just was not making sense to me. Truth is I am still confused a bit by it all. But I am persistent I will keep at it till it clicks.

[Zacchaeus]

I cannot be certain of course but it may well be that many such items which will appear in the forthcoming DMG will have all of that lovely syntax worked out when the item is drag/dropped. :)

[bnickelsen]

I cannot be certain of course but it may well be that many such items which will appear in the forthcoming DMG will have all of that lovely syntax worked out when the item is drag/dropped. :)


Shutup! Just take my money :D

That will be awesome.

After thought, I am assuming you are referring to the canned magic items that might ship in the DMG package.

I would add to my wish list for the future a selection section or auto complete for building items and powers/abilities.

[Zacchaeus]

Well if you have a sneak peak at Zeus's signature block the thing you seek might well be in there. :)

Current 5E Project*:D&D 5E Magic Items & Parcel Generator - yay functional magic items and a nice new generator front end for the loot tables in the DMG!

[Trenloe]

question 2 Could I expect

Opt a: To see the AC and saves on the PC character sheet change to reflect this adjustment?Opt a

Just in case this hasn't been cleared up by the follow up posts above. Effect do not change values directly on the character sheet. They are only applied when a roll is made (attack, damage, save, etc.) or in the rare cases of DMGO and REGEN when the creature turn occurs.

[bnickelsen]

Another question related to effects, (I am assuming No but going to ask anyways.)


Is there a way to automatically remove an effect when if anther effect is added. or negate the benefits?

Example Barbarian "Danger sense" Grants advantage to Dex saves but as an example loses this ability when Blinded. So I was thinking that inn the effect "Danger Sense" maybe use the "If" option to say if Not Blinded?


Just stabbing in the dark.....

[Griogre]

Personally for long term magic items like rings, (armor, weapons, ect) I would not make their bonuses an effect. I would just up the AC and Saves by 1 on the character sheet.

[Griogre]

Another question related to effects, (I am assuming No but going to ask anyways.)


Is there a way to automatically remove an effect when if anther effect is added. or negate the benefits?

Example Barbarian "Danger sense" Grants advantage to Dex saves but as an example loses this ability when Blinded. So I was thinking that inn the effect "Danger Sense" maybe use the "If" option to say if Not Blinded?


Just stabbing in the dark.....

This is the "Effects Delima". If you choose to use them then you need to be able to unwind them. In this case just create a one use effect that give you disadvantage on dex saves that you apply when you make a save when blind. Past a certain point the effort of using effects is more than just doing it manually. Deciding where to draw the line is the hard part.

[bnickelsen]

Personally for long term magic items like rings, (armor, weapons, ect) I would not make their bonuses an effect. I would just up the AC and Saves by 1 on the character sheet.

I thought about that but the issue is keeping track of what they have on and need to re-do the math each time. I like the effect usage because it shows what they have on.

[kylania]

You could always Ctrl-Scroll over a field to add a pretty bubble modifier to it!

https://i.imgur.com/CiQdvYS.jpg

[Nickademus]

As you noticed however the number isn't actually displayed, not even in the roll, but it does count.

Test Fighter has an AC of 18 normally, with the AC: 1 effect this roll of 18 missed him since the system knew his modified AC was 19 even though it's not shown on the character sheet.


Effect do not change values directly on the character sheet. They are only applied when a roll is made (attack, damage, save, etc.) or in the rare cases of DMGO and REGEN when the creature turn occurs.

I'm a bit confused. Does the effect show up in the roll (but not the char sheet) or not in either? I have always seen an effect bonus included in the modifier number for roll... until a few nights ago. We were trying to get an attack bonus effect to work and the character, normally +3 to hit, was showing [EFFECTS +1] in the text but still a +3 to hit and the 'Attack [15]' wasn't a number higher than the roll total like it would be if the 1 were added after the roll. Testing showed that the attack roll seemed to be receiving the bonus before comparing to AC.

I've never seen the numbers in the chat message not accurately represent the changes from effects.

[kylania]

In the test I did above it added +1 to the AC "silently" and just mentioned that it had done that in the roll results since it wasn't really adjusting the roll value just the roll target (which you don't normally see).

[bnickelsen]

I'm a bit confused. Does the effect show up in the roll (but not the char sheet) or not in either? I have always seen an effect bonus included in the modifier number for roll... until a few nights ago. We were trying to get an attack bonus effect to work and the character, normally +3 to hit, was showing [EFFECTS +1] in the text but still a +3 to hit and the 'Attack [15]' wasn't a number higher than the roll total like it would be if the 1 were added after the roll. Testing showed that the attack roll seemed to be receiving the bonus before comparing to AC.

I've never seen the numbers in the chat message not accurately represent the changes from effects.

Tested this several ways and found it always effects the roll and shows in chat that you got an Effect Bonus of "X". And definitely does not alter values on the character sheet.

[Trenloe]

I've never seen the numbers in the chat message not accurately represent the changes from effects.
This is due to conditional targeted effects (IFT) as mentioned in another thread you're involved in. :) This functionality has been around for quite some time now, had a quick look for when MW first described the operation of this but can't find it quickly.

[brautigan1]

I hate to insult the mastermind behind the effects wiki, but the examples given there aren't enough. The modifiers themselves are fantastic. The presentation of the wiki is just bad. The syntax for the descriptors of modifiers remains pretty unclear there.

Furthermore, Fantasy Grounds deserves a "no-typing" effects creation interface with drop down menus for selecting modifiers and their descriptors (imo).

[Trenloe]

Furthermore, Fantasy Grounds deserves a "no-typing" effects creation interface with drop down menus for selecting modifiers and their descriptors (imo).
Add it to the wishlist: https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

[bnickelsen]

Continuing on with effects

I added an Action to a player from a magic item and that effect is the target makes a save for "X" or is "Prone"

I added to that action two entries,
1. A "Cast" with save info
2. an "Effect" so this is where I hit one question. Can simple enter "Prone" or do I need the full text (Prone;DISATK, GRANTADVATK: melee, GRANTDISATK: ranged)

Is the a way to apply the effect automatically when the save fails?
10547

[Trenloe]

Can simple enter "Prone" or do I need the full text (Prone;DISATK, GRANTADVATK: melee, GRANTDISATK: ranged)

Just use the word Prone Any of the conditions listed here are applied using the word of the condition listed and FG applies the "Modifiers applied" automatically: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_Effects#Conditions


Is the a way to apply the effect automatically when the save fails?
No, you need to do this as a second step. Just like rolling an attack and damage is a two stage process, triggering a save and applying the result is a two step process. It allows the GM to double check the result, manually apply any modifiers not added before the roll and do a final adjudication on whether the save succeeded or failed before the effect is applied.

[brautigan1]

On that note, Trenloe, perhaps another item I could add to the wishlist:

Action "chains," in which specific, named casts could be linked to specifically linked damages, heals, and effects.

So if you created a cast action within, say, a spell, you could give it a field to enter a unique identifier, and then, in each of the other actions associated with that spell, you could create a "chain to" field, in which you would enter the identifier you created for the cast action. On a failed save, the "cast" identifier would return true for the other actions in the chain, and those actions would be applied automatically to the targets that failed the save.

This is the kind of thing that would really, really send FG through the stratosphere, honestly. Hard stuff, but so, so worth it, imo.

[Trenloe]

On that note, Trenloe, perhaps another item I could add to the wishlist:

Action "chains," in which specific, named casts could be linked to specific, linked damages, heals, and effects.

So if you created a cast action within, say, a spell, you could give it a field to enter a unique identifier, and then, in each of the other actions associated with that spell, you could create a "chain to" identifier. On a failed save, the identifier would return true for the other actions in the chain, and those actions would be applied automatically to the targets that failed the save.

This is the kind of thing that would really, really send FG through the stratosphere, honestly. Hard stuff, but so, so worth it, imo.
Don't ask me about it, I'm not a FG developer! :) Add it to the FG wishlist (https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/).

But, to be honest, the developers have stated in the past that they won't do this type of functionality (who knows, they might change their mind). This is going way into full automation and adds more and more complexity (more coding, more support, more confusion from users, etc.), removes DM adjudication (mentioned above), relies on the players having all of their effects/modifiers 100% correct before pressing the "cast" button, etc..

The current process is pressing the cast button, the GM reviewing the results to make sure everything is correct and giving the go ahead to then press the effect button to apply relevant effects. Is this such a laborious process that requires 100% automation? We're playing role-playing games here, not MMOs. ;)

But, what do I know? Go ahead, please add your request to the wishlist and let those that matter decide. :)

[brautigan1]

Hehe, I understand you're not a dev, Trenloe... but you're a good guy to talk to about this stuff anyway, as you just proved with your last post. I had no idea they were against this sort of thing. So in spite of the fact you seem averse to me continuing here with the discussion, I will point out that even though such identifier fields would be available, they wouldn't be required to be used. Leave the chain field blank in the other actions, and they just wouldn't happen when you hit the "cast" button. So, essentially, it would remain optional by its very nature.

Options are good, and the idea that automation should be kept to a certain limit... well, it seems to me it can only be a good thing to allow the users to decide that limit.

If you don't want to have a discussion with me on the topic, I understand. Just ignore, hehe.

[Trenloe]

If you don't want to have a discussion with me on the topic, I understand. Just ignore, hehe.
No worries. If I didn't want to continue/have a discussion on it I wouldn't have replied. I was pointing you to the wishlist so that your request is logged in the right place and so won't get lost. I agree, options are good. The usual FG issues come in here - lots of valuable dev work both now and in the future to provide/support very complex functionality across multiple rulesets that's heading down the road of 100% automation that, in itself, brings in more issues...

But, on further reflection, some (optional) way of chaining effect events together might be useful; maybe; perhaps; possibly... ;)

[brautigan1]

Cheers!

[Moon Wizard]

Not against it, but definitely cautious. I've found that any sort of automation invites lots of additional requirements to match everyone's play styles. So, I've always approached automation in small bursts.

Action chains have been on list for a while, but it's completely takes away DM ability to adjust. Plus, then it requires the ability to quickly "undo" action rolls, which is a completely different requirement with potentially more options.

Both of those features are large projects that are multiplied by the number of ruleset that we support. Did I mention cautious for automation changes? :)

Regards,
JPG

[epithet]

I am also not gung-ho for a lot more automation. However, I would dearly love an "undo" function, for text entry and item/action deletions as well as action clicks.

[Trenloe]

However, I would dearly love an "undo" function, for text entry ...
CTRL+Z

See shortcut keys here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/The_Basics#Formatted_Text_Fields

[epithet]

Oh, holy crap! Thanks Trenloe!