Starting Cost

[Danimal66]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum. I've been running an online campaign on Roll20 for almost 2 years now. About 6 months ago we switched to D&D 5th edition and I'm very intrigues by Fantasy Grounds since it has the rule set built in.

I own all the 5E books, this includes all campaigns out. My players have purchased PHB obviously. If I do purchase I plan to do so on Steam since 4 of my 5 players are on Mac's. I'll be honest the cost is what is holding me back. I don't want to force my players to buy something else so if I do move forward I will go with the Ultimate License. So that's $150, then if I am reading this correctly the Core pack also includes the basic rules $49.99, I need the Monster Pack $49.99. I'm running them through Hoard right now so another $20. Total $270 for something which I hear is great but has a steep learning curve as a DM goes.

The point if this thread is to ask am I missing anything above to get started and are my assumptions correct in what each includes. Would it be better to buy an monthly Ultimate License and spend money on the D&D modules to see if it all works etc.

I really want to try this but spending $270 to find out one of my players Macs won't work or it's very hard to use is stopping me. Looking for general good advice.

[Trenloe]

Buying any Fantasy Grounds licence (Full or Ultimate) includes the framework (ruleset) to play 5E. It doesn't include any reference material but you can enter this manually as you need it, use PAR5E to create library entries from text you input or buy the products to save you the time.

For example, you can manually enter NPCs. See this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-POluSDHAc This shows some of the base 5E ruleset that comes with all versions of Fantasy Grounds - the framework that you need to play 5E.

You can also manually enter PCs, but if you have the PHB or class packs this can make it a bit easier. This video shows using the class packs to create a PC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nurEMR4JJeU But, you could equally manually input the information if you don't want to buy the class packs.

I'd recommend getting a one month subscription to the Ultimate licence. Purchasing Horde will come with all of the NPCs stats, maps, etc. that you need to run the scenario. Getting the core class pack will help your players - especially the spell casters. However, if you just want to look at it then you could get the basic rules for $2.99 to get an idea of some of the draggable content: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.xcp?id=WOTC5EDDBASICRULES

So, this could be an initial investment of: $10 (subscription) + $20 (Horde) + $3 (basic rules) = $33. If you love it and decide to dive in and get the permanent ultimate licence and the class packs then you'll have "lost" the initial $10 subscription and the $3 basic rules when all is told, but this is a lot safer initial outlay than $270!

[Danimal66]

Thank you for such a great response, watching the videos now. A few quick questions

1. So the basic rules for $2.99 are essentially the basic rules found on Wizards site correct?
2. The core class pack is essentially the complete PHB? Or is it just the classes and races out of the PHB
3. Hoards or a similar module has all the monsters, you said NPC's so just want to clarify.
4. Also the maps that come with something like hoard are useable, meaning I can drop tokens on them etc. This is my #1 source of work with Roll20

Thanks Again

[Nylanfs]

1: Yes
2: Yes, complete PHB
3: Yes
4: Yes

[crb31]

Danimal66, I was really reluctant to get involved with Fantasy Grounds. Time, cost, learning curve, ect all seemed prohibitive. I was using another online resource and it was much less in cost, but I found myself spending hours entering monster data, more $$ to either buy the premade maps(which are beautiful and well worth it, but still an added expense) and I was having to spend a lot of time away from my wife getting this up and running. For me, the expense was well worth it and I now have two games running and really enjoying it. More importantly, I can spend some time doing something else instead of copying and pasting in little computer fields to only have it disrupted/deleted to my error, or a un-notified of update.
Very well worth it!
Plus, once you get something going, you will find most players want to have a good time so they are very willing to help the DM out.

[bnickelsen]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum. I've been running an online campaign on Roll20 for almost 2 years now. About 6 months ago we switched to D&D 5th edition and I'm very intrigues by Fantasy Grounds since it has the rule set built in.

I own all the 5E books, this includes all campaigns out. My players have purchased PHB obviously. If I do purchase I plan to do so on Steam since 4 of my 5 players are on Mac's. I'll be honest the cost is what is holding me back. I don't want to force my players to buy something else so if I do move forward I will go with the Ultimate License. So that's $150, then if I am reading this correctly the Core pack also includes the basic rules $49.99, I need the Monster Pack $49.99. I'm running them through Hoard right now so another $20. Total $270 for something which I hear is great but has a steep learning curve as a DM goes.

The point if this thread is to ask am I missing anything above to get started and are my assumptions correct in what each includes. Would it be better to buy an monthly Ultimate License and spend money on the D&D modules to see if it all works etc.

I really want to try this but spending $270 to find out one of my players Macs won't work or it's very hard to use is stopping me. Looking for general good advice.

Stay with Roll20. It has all the functionality that FG has. In many cases the functionality is better. The only thing you get with FG is the text. And you only really get 80% of that.

[damned]

The LMoP includes the basic rules - i wonder if HotDQ does too?
I know it says you need them but LMoP says the same and it includes them...

I think bnickelsen has fallen in and out of love.
There will always be some people who prefer another system because it just works better for them.

I dont think you will find many 5e users going back to Roll20.
I havent played 5e on Roll20 but I have played a couple of other systems on Roll20 and I have to say there aint no way Im swapping :)

[dulux-oz]

...there aint no way Im swapping :)

Nor me :)

[JohnD]

I don't like Apple products so I don't spent my time on websites dedicated to Apple products complaining about how shitty I think they are.

[dulux-oz]

I don't like Apple products so I don't spent my time on websites dedicated to Apple products complaining about how shitty I think they are.

Nor me :)

[viresanimi]

The cost of 5E on Fantasy Grounds is large, but only if you buy everything beyond the program. There is no "need" to purchase the core / monster pack(s) but boy do they save you a lot of time! Aaand... they update the modules as errata comes out. For free I might add.

Yeah. I've done the whole "omg Roll20" thing and I so fell out of love with in a hurry. As a GM, I cannot stress how much better I find FG over other products (and I've tried a few). I don't make a single story at a time. I build large campains. My vampire campaign, which involves 3 cities, I litterally have over 200 npc's running around and its so easy to manage. The only thing I find Roll20 does better than FG is cards. Seriously. I am not going to stop saying this... but I am crossing fingers for it when the Unity version drops!

Personally I would try the subscription. See if the time investment it takes to get the hand of FG and the functionality is for you. Then decide what is right for you. What is right for me and others here might or might not be what you're looking for, so I would encourage you to try it at the least expense. The 5E ruleset is there to work with for free.

Also: People on this forum are the most helpful guys you can find anywhere on the net, I swear. There is no such thing as a stupid question here and there are always people willing to help. And the devs listen, and they sure fix things that you report and are thankful for your help.


Just my two coppers worth


Vires Animi

[Danimal66]

I appreciate all the help. I think I will buy a single license, the Complete class pack and a module to learn how to use everything and go from there.

Thanks again

[damned]

Danimal66 - please also be aware that while FG will save you (the GM) time down the road - there is a learning curve and some things just are not obvious to newcomers at first.
Watch a few videos - learn how to prepare and run encounters as a priority.
Dont worry about Effects until you are comfortable with other things.
And search the forums and ask questions - lots of helpful people (I think they are all people?) about.

[GunnarGreybeard]

I agree with those saying start slow. I admittedly grabbed the Ultimate version some time ago (tax refund) and most recently I had been running a 5e campaign for about 6 months using just the Basic Rules. I parsed them myself so it didn't even cost me the $2.99 but if they were around then I would have dropped the $3 easy.

[Danimal66]

Ok I lied, I have one more question.

If i buy a single license to learn everything and then want a monthly Ultimate License to try it out will that work?

[Trenloe]

Yes, just use the new subscription licence key and do an update. A similar question to this was asked recently here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?24997-Question-on-upgrading-to-Ultimate

[xanstin]

I used Roll20 exclusively for over a year and took my players through LMoP and HotDQ. During the steam sale I took the plunge and got the stuff on FG. I can speak for my whole group saying we will never go back to Roll20 for any of our D&D needs. While the first couple days felt like I was trying to drink water out of a waterfall...once you learn how to use the program, (which truthfully may take a day or so) you realize as a DM this does 80% of the work, math and rolls for you and speeds up play exponentially for us. While there are some bugs and errors which get fixed, its nothing compared to the time saving there is just buying the module and everything (maps, tokens, placement of tokens, stat blocks) is there you just have to glance through it like you would any module played in person prior to a session. I no longer have to have 3 books open on my desk and the computer at game time. I couldn't recommend it enough!

Myself and another player use Macs (mine is a 2008 macbook) without problems, just use steam or follow the post on making it work on macs.

I started with the 1 month single license, the basic rules, and LMoP at the time to test it out before I purchased the whole suite with ultimate.

[crb31]

I think you will be very happy with your decision!

[JohnD]

I used Roll20 exclusively for over a year and took my players through LMoP and HotDQ. During the steam sale I took the plunge and got the stuff on FG. I can speak for my whole group saying we will never go back to Roll20 for any of our D&D needs. While the first couple days felt like I was trying to drink water out of a waterfall...once you learn how to use the program, (which truthfully may take a day or so) you realize as a DM this does 80% of the work, math and rolls for you and speeds up play exponentially for us. While there are some bugs and errors which get fixed, its nothing compared to the time saving there is just buying the module and everything (maps, tokens, placement of tokens, stat blocks) is there you just have to glance through it like you would any module played in person prior to a session. I no longer have to have 3 books open on my desk and the computer at game time. I couldn't recommend it enough!

Myself and another player use Macs (mine is a 2008 macbook) without problems, just use steam or follow the post on making it work on macs.

I started with the 1 month single license, the basic rules, and LMoP at the time to test it out before I purchased the whole suite with ultimate.
Normally I say "you won't regret it" but I can see you've already come to that understanding! :)

Well done on your purchase and happy gaming!

[Dracones]

4. Also the maps that come with something like hoard are useable, meaning I can drop tokens on them etc. This is my #1 source of work with Roll20


One point to clarify since it wasn't mentioned. In paid for modules like Horde you shouldn't need to manually drop tokens down on the map. That's done for you by the module creator.

Nearly everything in the modules is designed to have all the prep work done for you. Monster placement on maps, read to the PCs text, exp and treasure bundles, etc. The only prep is learning FG itself and getting familiar with the module beforehand.

[Danimal66]

One point to clarify since it wasn't mentioned. In paid for modules like Horde you shouldn't need to manually drop tokens down on the map. That's done for you by the module creator.

Nearly everything in the modules is designed to have all the prep work done for you. Monster placement on maps, read to the PCs text, exp and treasure bundles, etc. The only prep is learning FG itself and getting familiar with the module beforehand.

That's good information. This thread has pushed my decision, the community seems very helpful. My biggest challenge with Roll20 is getting in good maps, really a pain to make them for Roll20.

[Trenloe]

That's good information. This thread has pushed my decision, the community seems very helpful. My biggest challenge with Roll20 is getting in good maps, really a pain to make them for Roll20.
Have a look at some of the thumbnail screenshots (click on them to see a bit bigger) in the HotDQ store page: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.xcp?id=WOTC5EHOTDQ Those are a few examples of some of the maps you get with the FG module.

[Nylanfs]

Also check the armory for the Map subforum. :-)

[xanstin]

That's good information. This thread has pushed my decision, the community seems very helpful. My biggest challenge with Roll20 is getting in good maps, really a pain to make them for Roll20.

You won't regret it, it definitely will give you more time for story prep instead of wasting time on roll 20 with maps and token searching and setup.

[ianmward]

Welcome to the FG community! You won't regret it.

[jreddin1]

I played Roll20 for a while, and then tried FG. I stayed with FG.

I play with a group of 5 others, and they all play on the free license. We split some of the expense of the Ultimate License, and most of the people never bought the 5E books, since they were available in game. For roll20, we all would have bought PHB, and I would have bought DM and MM, so that's better than $300 U.S. For fantasy grounds, we bought Ultimate, 5E Core, and Monster. From that perspective, roll20 would have been just as expensive, if not more.

In addition, using FG feels a lot more like a VTT should to me, and was easier to "get into the flow" of things than roll20. The ability to author new adventures (or convert modules) is really well done, as well. I can convert an existing module (PDF) end-to-end in about an hour! Authoring new content is easy and allows me to organize plot lines, npcs, maps, treasures, traps and encounters and link them all together seamlessly. Running the games becomes much more about narration and scene setting than about rules and mechanics. After all this is Role Playing, not Rule Playing.

Just like roll20, there are things that need to be improved (like mapping-tiles, dynamic lighting, dynamic fog-of-war, etc.), but the foundation is good. As I've gotten into writing extensions, I'm finding that the base is amazingly flexible which is why there are so many community extensions and new rulesets.

My advice? Use roll20 for a while. Then download the free FG client and join an FG game. Then decide which you like better. (FYI: I haven't really had problems finding games to join, despite what some have said, and I've got a waiting list of people that want to play with me, which is also nice :-) )

[jreddin1]

Also: People on this forum are the most helpful guys you can find anywhere on the net, I swear. There is no such thing as a stupid question here and there are always people willing to help. And the devs listen, and they sure fix things that you report and are thankful for your help.


So not true! I ask stupid questions pretty much daily! Ask Trenloe and Oz!

[GunnarGreybeard]

(FYI: I haven't really had problems finding games to join, despite what some have said, and I've got a waiting list of people that want to play with me, which is also nice :-) )
I've had to hide my calendar entry off and on to stop the flow of signup requests, and that is with a text only game. I wish I could accommodate everyone but unfortunately, its not feasible.

[Art Wendorf]

I've had to hide my calendar entry off and on to stop the flow of signup requests, and that is with a text only game. I wish I could accommodate everyone but unfortunately, its not feasible.I concur about player availability. I was quite inexperienced when I put up my calendar entry and completely misjudged the amount of people who would sign up. I think I had 3x as many people than what I needed or could handle sign up on the first DAY of it being up! I might have to hide my calendar entry. lol . Of course, that might not have happened if I would have picked a different rules set than 5e, but that's the ruleset you're asking about!

Anyway, I tried roll20. I have a mentor subscription. What I don't have (unfortunately) as a single dad of a teenager is TIME. I don't have the time to enter the data needed to run roll20. I do have money though. So in the time vs money battle, time lost out. Fantasy Grounds has allowed me to tinker with my campaign as time allows and still run a fairly good game. Good enough that my players keep coming back, anyway.

Fantasy Grounds also does NOT insist that you take a $100 to $140 plunge to use the Ultimate License. I think the subscription cost is like $10 a month. So for $20 ($10 and another $3 for the basic rules and $7 for lost mines) you can run a short campaign for your players and get a real feel for how Fantasy Grounds plays for a game of 5e.

Note: I may be off on the pricing. I can't remember if Lost Mines comes with the Basic Rules and, for that matter, the actual cost of Lost Mines.

[ddaley]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum. I've been running an online campaign on Roll20 for almost 2 years now. About 6 months ago we switched to D&D 5th edition and I'm very intrigues by Fantasy Grounds since it has the rule set built in.

I own all the 5E books, this includes all campaigns out. My players have purchased PHB obviously. If I do purchase I plan to do so on Steam since 4 of my 5 players are on Mac's. I'll be honest the cost is what is holding me back. I don't want to force my players to buy something else so if I do move forward I will go with the Ultimate License. So that's $150, then if I am reading this correctly the Core pack also includes the basic rules $49.99, I need the Monster Pack $49.99. I'm running them through Hoard right now so another $20. Total $270 for something which I hear is great but has a steep learning curve as a DM goes.

The point if this thread is to ask am I missing anything above to get started and are my assumptions correct in what each includes. Would it be better to buy an monthly Ultimate License and spend money on the D&D modules to see if it all works etc.

I really want to try this but spending $270 to find out one of my players Macs won't work or it's very hard to use is stopping me. Looking for general good advice.

This looks accurate to me. We are facing the same problem right now. We have a remote DM who is about to start up a campaign. There is no way he is going to invest $270 in this. He wants to use d20pro... so I have started playing with that.

You can wait for the next time fantasy grounds has a sale. You could save quite a bit of $ by waiting.

[ddaley]

I don't like Apple products so I don't spent my time on websites dedicated to Apple products complaining about how shitty I think they are.

And, a completely off topic, unhelpful, and narrow minded post...

[viresanimi]

Oh the irony is palpable! That gave me a good laugh. Thank you.

[JohnD]

And, a completely off topic, unhelpful, and narrow minded post...

https://static.fjcdn.com/comments/I+literally+used+that+as+a+quick+side+note+so+_160 255b7173bb4b2817cfe94fa32306f.jpg

[ddaley]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong forum. I've been running an online campaign on Roll20 for almost 2 years now. About 6 months ago we switched to D&D 5th edition and I'm very intrigues by Fantasy Grounds since it has the rule set built in.

I own all the 5E books, this includes all campaigns out. My players have purchased PHB obviously. If I do purchase I plan to do so on Steam since 4 of my 5 players are on Mac's. I'll be honest the cost is what is holding me back. I don't want to force my players to buy something else so if I do move forward I will go with the Ultimate License. So that's $150, then if I am reading this correctly the Core pack also includes the basic rules $49.99, I need the Monster Pack $49.99. I'm running them through Hoard right now so another $20. Total $270 for something which I hear is great but has a steep learning curve as a DM goes.

The point if this thread is to ask am I missing anything above to get started and are my assumptions correct in what each includes. Would it be better to buy an monthly Ultimate License and spend money on the D&D modules to see if it all works etc.

I really want to try this but spending $270 to find out one of my players Macs won't work or it's very hard to use is stopping me. Looking for general good advice.

If you are not in a hurry, you might want to wait to see what comes out of gencon... it is happening at the end of the month. Maybe new partnerships will be announced.

[GunnarGreybeard]

I really want to try this but spending $270 to find out one of my players Macs won't work or it's very hard to use is stopping me. Looking for general good advice.
Trenloe provided that in the 2nd post of this thread . . "$10 (subscription) + $20 (Horde) + $3 (basic rules) = $33." = nowhere near the $270.00 some keep trying imply is required to get involved. A one time, $33 investment with a $10 monthly recurring fee and no $$ for your players. You can also make a one time ultimate monthly purchase and have a whole month to confirm ALL of your players can connect. In that scenario, the most you are out is $10.

I'm still waiting for someone to try and convince me that Roll20 is free AND includes official D&D 5e content. It doesn't, you have to build it out just like you would with FG if you do not buy the module packs. With FG you can buy in low and build the modules out yourself (see above) or go hog wild and pay for the created content where you can end up putting out close to $270.00. he choice is yours. With Roll20 you don't have so much of a choice, you buy in low, free without mentoring, etc, and yet you still have to build out your content unless your pirating that content.

The big question is how valuable is your free time? Just look at the numbers, not the hyperbole.

[ddaley]

Trenloe provided that in the 2nd post of this thread . . "$10 (subscription) + $20 (Horde) + $3 (basic rules) = $33." = nowhere near the $270.00 some keep trying imply is required to get involved. A one time, $33 investment with a $10 monthly recurring fee and no $$ for your players. You can also make a one time ultimate monthly purchase and have a whole month to confirm ALL of your players can connect. In that scenario, the most you are out is $10.

I'm still waiting for someone to try and convince me that Roll20 is free AND includes official D&D 5e content. It doesn't, you have to build it out just like you would with FG if you do not buy the module packs. With FG you can buy in low and build the modules out yourself (see above) or go hog wild and pay for the created content where you can end up putting out close to $270.00. he choice is yours. With Roll20 you don't have so much of a choice, you buy in low, free without mentoring, etc, and yet you still have to build out your content unless your pirating that content.

The big question is how valuable is your free time? Just look at the numbers, not the hyperbole.

It's hopefully just a matter of time before 5e is supported by other systems... and then, maybe prices will become more reasonable for the rules/content. I personally don't do subscriptions. But, doing a subscription for a month to try the system might be reasonable for some. FG should provide some trial period.

I am hoping that WotC will announce partnerships with other vendors later this month. I am not crazy about how the UI works in FG. Navigating content in 20 windows that open when you are trying to find content is a real pain. Almost everything you click opens another window...

[dulux-oz]

What some people are missing in these discussions is the point that the pricing isn't solely in SW's hands - WotC have specified a certain level of cost due to them wanting to continue to sell their own products at the price they set. If SW was allowed to set the price unhindered then they would probably set the price lower than it is - trouble is, they're restricted by their licensing deal with WotC.

As far as other licensing deals go - great, if other products can get one - if people do enough research on the subject they might just find that WotC DID look at a range of VTTs as potential license partners - BUT they only choose one. If they change their minds in the future then that's good for the hobby - but I wouldn't expect the pricing to be much different on ANY VTT because of the reasons I've out lined above.

Cheers

[damned]

I am not crazy about how the UI works in FG. Navigating content in 20 windows that open when you are trying to find content is a real pain. Almost everything you click opens another window...

When you are at the game table have you noticed how many books you have and how many book marks and how many pieces of paper. Its kinda much of a muchness. Ive thought the same many times but I havent managed to think of a way to be accessing all these different things without having a separate window for each.

[Andraax]

I am not crazy about how the UI works in FG. Navigating content in 20 windows that open when you are trying to find content is a real pain. Almost everything you click opens another window...

When I'm prepping for the game, I "pin" the stuff I'm going to need to the maps ahead of time. Then I don't have to spend time looking for stuff during the game, it's there just one click away. Stuff that I commonly use session to session is tied to function keys (there are 96 of them, so lots of places to put stuff there as well)

[damned]

When I'm prepping for the game, I "pin" the stuff I'm going to need to the maps ahead of time. Then I don't have to spend time looking for stuff during the game, it's there just one click away. Stuff that I commonly use session to session is tied to function keys (there are 96 of them, so lots of places to put stuff there as well)

yep, yep and yep. pins on maps and drag common rolls, saves, checks, and reference links to the hot key bar.

[TheSwartz]

For what it's worth, I'm still very new and I am ONLY interested in D&D 5e.

I was comparing Roll20 to FG and I was concerned about the learning curve with FG based on other people's reviews and statements on forums, etc. It seemed like the initial curve was steeper with FG (per those people), but after a couple YouTube videos and poking around with it for a half hour, I saw that FG absolutely blows Roll20 out of the water. So my decision was easy to make.

After spending the same amount of time with Roll20, I wasn't seeing myself get over the initial learning curve as easily. In the end, it's My Opinion, that Roll20 was actually harder to use than FG. Throw in that all the D&D 5e stuff is built in (if you don't mind the cost) and again it's another No Brainer.

It is just my opinion, but I really don't know why anyone who is just getting into VTT and is wanting to play 5e would even consider Roll20 (over FG) unless the additional cost is really a barrier to you. I may be lucky, but for me, the cost savings of a couple hours of my time easily pays for itself. I agree with another poster, just get a one month sub and either the basic rules or LMoP and poke around; I think you'll be hooked.

The 'only' things I like from Roll20 over FG are:
1. built in webcams, but I just run a group in Roll20 and then size the window to the bottom of my screen (see the streaming with OBS series: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?24282-How-to-make-an-overlay-and-setup-OBS-for-streaming!) roll20 does doe a good job of this, would like to see this added to FG
2. No built in audio, but I love to use Syrinscape https://syrinscape.com/ (which is far superior to whatever it is the audio thing from Roll20 is supposed to be) and so run this as a separate app and my desktop audio streams to my friends via cam. If anyone is listening, would be floored if FG and Syrinscape joined forces somehow !!
3. Unless I'm missing it, no dynamic lighting in FG, but then you have to pay for this in Roll20; I think they consider this their "killer app". Besides, it's very easy for the DM to draw out a Fog of War on maps; It's in one (or more) of the videos for you to see.

[ddaley]

When you are at the game table have you noticed how many books you have and how many book marks and how many pieces of paper. Its kinda much of a muchness. Ive thought the same many times but I havent managed to think of a way to be accessing all these different things without having a separate window for each.

I do need to get more proficient with FG. We may be using it as a VTT soon too, which will help. But for "at the table" DM assistance, I was hoping FG could be as useful as something like Realm Works. If Realm Works gets 5e support, then that will probably become my go to tool for "at the table" and FG will be used for VTT sessions.

[kylania]

For what it's worth, I'm still very new and I am ONLY interested in D&D 5e.

Me too!


after a couple YouTube videos and poking around with it for a half hour, I saw that FG absolutely blows Roll20 out of the water. So my decision was easy to make.

After spending the same amount of time with Roll20, I wasn't seeing myself get over the initial learning curve as easily. In the end, it's My Opinion, that Roll20 was actually harder to use than FG. Throw in that all the D&D 5e stuff is built in (if you don't mind the cost) and again it's another No Brainer.

Absolutely. My friend, a first time DM, has run us through Phandelver using Roll20. There's been so many little problems we've had, most of the users didn't understand the admittedly fun for me character sheets or how to even use the interface. I sprang for the Ultimate sub and bought the base 5E things and ran him through a quick demo. He instantly fell in love! In the few minutes we took to show him around he already knew that even without the full adventure module making what he did with Roll20 would have been so much easier in FG.



The 'only' things I like from Roll20 over FG are:
1. built in webcams, but I just run a group in Roll20 and then size the window to the bottom of my screen (see the streaming with OBS series: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?24282-How-to-make-an-overlay-and-setup-OBS-for-streaming!) roll20 does doe a good job of this, would like to see this added to FG

We never used the webcams or audio from Roll20. Some of us were more private and we were all already on Mumble anyway.


2. No built in audio, but I love to use Syrinscape https://syrinscape.com/ (which is far superior to whatever it is the audio thing from Roll20 is supposed to be) and so run this as a separate app and my desktop audio streams to my friends via cam. If anyone is listening, would be floored if FG and Syrinscape joined forces somehow !!

FG absolutely needs to include some kind of module based sound system for background music or sounds. That's the one thing that's keeping us from dumping Roll20 in and heartbeat.


3. Unless I'm missing it, no dynamic lighting in FG, but then you have to pay for this in Roll20; I think they consider this their "killer app". Besides, it's very easy for the DM to draw out a Fog of War on maps; It's in one (or more) of the videos for you to see.

Dynamic Lighting seems really cool at first, but I quickly grew to dislike it. There were so many times where I would be behind a pillar or something and suddenly forget what the room behind it looks like or that my party members were over there. Or you nudge your token just outside a door frame and now you can't see inside the room you were just in. Fog of war is absolutely required, but the Roll20esque dynamic view isn't really something I enjoyed.

I would enjoy a brush size/shape Mask editor tool. Squares and shaky outlines aren't as good as squares, shaky outlines and the ability to just paint out fog of war with a circle brush or something, ala Photoshop masks.

[Andraax]

FG absolutely needs to include some kind of module based sound system for background music or sounds. That's the one thing that's keeping us from dumping Roll20 in and heartbeat.


I use Teamspeak for both voice and background music / sounds.

[Trenloe]

I use Teamspeak for both voice and background music / sounds.
So do I, all the time. It allows me to run the sound applications I want: Syrinscape (both Fantasy and SciFi), Amazon Music for some Star Wars music I have specifically on there, Pandora, specific MP3/FLAC players, etc., etc.. Doing it this way doesn't limit me to a specific format, having to upload music through FG, or any other issues that might be present with an FG based music add-on.


FG absolutely needs to include some kind of module based sound system for background music or sounds. That's the one thing that's keeping us from dumping Roll20 in and heartbeat.
That's the only thing stopping you dumping Roll20? It's completely possible to do music/sfx now - community members provide free to use TeamSpeak servers for everyone to use - so your free voice chat/music is actually available for you right now - just not built into FG, but supported by the FG community.

Info on the free FG community TeamSpeak servers here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?17071-Voicechat!-Community-TeamSpeak3-Server

Info on ways to use Teamspeak for SFX/background music in the "Audio Tips" section here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21761-Playing-Aids&p=182730&viewfull=1#post182730

[JohnD]

3. Unless I'm missing it, no dynamic lighting in FG, but then you have to pay for this in Roll20; I think they consider this their "killer app". Besides, it's very easy for the DM to draw out a Fog of War on maps; It's in one (or more) of the videos for you to see.
Dynamic Lighting sounds great, in principle.

I guess as a DM the question you need to ask yourself is this; do I want to spend most of my hobby time setting up dynamic lighting or actually DMing a game?

As a player, you need to ask yourself; do I want dynamic lighting and fewer actual gaming sessions because it takes time to set up, or do I want my DM to be able to run games more often?

At least that's my perspective after doing ~ 10 years of DMing and content building in NWN and NWN2 which essentially have dynamic lighting since they are very visual... it takes time to "get it right"... invariably that time comes at the expense of actually gaming, unless your DM/content creator has no job/kids/spouse/whatever to consume most of their waking hours.

[brautigan1]

I wouldn't even want to do audio if it was just a matter of playing a single sound file at a time. Sound-boarding is the way to go if your going to make good use of sound, imo. Apps like Syrinscape (https://syrinscape.com/), Scene Sound (https://scenesound.cyclobster.com/), or Combiwave (https://www.combiwave.com/), along with Voicemeeter (https://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Voicemeeter/), is where it's at.

There are so many free sounds you can get just using Voicemeeter and any sound recorder, it's sick (so long as your not infringing -- I never do).

[xanstin]

Voicemeeter is pretty nice once you get it setup. Much more flexible than roll20's sound cloud.

[seycyrus]

@ Brautigan

Ohmigosh! It's Yorgle!

[Danimal66]

So I ended up buying this through Steam today and I'm running into problems getting it started. I had to delete my steam appcache and revalidate the files. It finally launched and then the software said there was an update. I figured Steam must not autoupdate so ran it and got error about loading the PHB.

I should mention I also purchase via Steam the core character pack and Hoard module. Are there issues with the Steam version? Can I just download the software and plug in the license I was given in steam? What about the extra packs I purchased.

Ugh.

[kylania]

According to this post (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?25109-Another-Question-regarding-the-STEAM-version-and-Subscriptions&p=221101&viewfull=1#post221101)all steam does is launch the main game anyway, so maybe try just running FantasyGrounds.exe alone?

[Danimal66]

Apparently I needed to activate the license, so not really sure what steam is doing here if anything.

[Trenloe]

so not really sure what steam is doing here if anything.
It's providing another avenue to purchase Fantasy Grounds. The underlying application is exactly the same, whether you purchase it through Steam or not. Purchasing through Steam can give better foreign exchange rates, 4-for-3 full licence bundle or allows gifting of a purchase. Other than that it's exactly the same application and you still need to enter your licence key and do an update to make sure you have the most recent versions of the application, rulesets, etc..