Feature discussion: Remove targeting when combatant token made invisible in CT

[Moon Wizard]

I'm looking at an option to remove a combatant from all targeting by other tokens when the token is made invisible in the combat tracker.

Since it seems like this would be a very individual GM feature, I'd like to get an idea of what people would like to see in their game for a feature like this, as well as how you handle these situations in your game. While I will consider all the information presented, I'm going to try and keep a feature like this as simple as possible as well to keep UI confusion/expansion to minimum.

Specifically, I am looking at specifically removing a token target from all other combatants in CT and any other tokens on the current token map, when a combatant is changed from visible to invisible in the tracker (or the global toggle is used to make all NPCs invisible). I'd prefer not to make something as simple as this an option.

Some questions:
* Does this seem useful?
* Are there situations where you wouldn't want the targeting removed when an NPC becomes invisible in the combat tracker?
* Do people use visibility in the combat tracker when creatures turn invisible, or just use the Invisible effect (D&D rulesets)?
* Any other thoughts?

The concept is to speed up play for hidden or fleeing combatants.

Regards,
JPG

[JohnD]

Yes please.

[Gwaihir Scout]

Definitely useful. I've had a couple fights where the enemy ported in and out of a battle and I had to remove targeting frequently.

I usually just make the CT entry invisible when an enemy turns invisible. Anytime I want to let a PC target it, I move it and make it visible just for that attack/spell.

[leozelig]

Yes, this feature would be useful, cannot think of a situation in which I would not want it.
I turn off visibility in the combat tracker when a creature is invisible.

[damned]

I can totally see how this is useful but there is one objection that I can think of - I (and I know other GMs that do this) toggle visibility on/off when I cant identify/find a particular token particularly in a larrge combat. You might have 10 Orcs and a bunch of PCs and its easy to NOT be able to find the one whose turn it currently is...

Perhaps this might go hand in hand with a "ping actor" feature? or could the circle around the active token be more visible - red for example?

[Moon Wizard]

It would need to be an independent feature, since a ping or change to the core client graphics is more involved than what is planned short term.

Would you still want the feature?

JPG

[damned]

It would need to be an independent feature, since a ping or change to the core client graphics is more involved than what is planned short term.

Would you still want the feature?

JPG

I personally wouldnt want it as I do use the blinking to find "lost" actors.... But its no deal breaker.

[Callum]

Some questions:
* Does this seem useful?
* Are there situations where you wouldn't want the targeting removed when an NPC becomes invisible in the combat tracker?
* Do people use visibility in the combat tracker when creatures turn invisible, or just use the Invisible effect (D&D rulesets)?
* Any other thoughts?

* It seems useful as a general idea - though I don't make whole entries invisible on the Combat Tracker, as the players will know the NPC exists and where they are in the initiative sequence, so I just change the token visibility on the map.

* Yes, several. I frequently have situations where some PCs can see an NPC, while other PCs can't - when one PC can see invisibility, for example, or just due to physical layout and line of sight. In these cases, the PC that can see the NPC will often want to target it.

* I change visibility of tokens for invisible creatures, and for creatures that aren't visible for other reasons (eg round a corner). I also add the invisible effect to the Combat Tracker where appropriate.

* Creatures can attack other, invisible creatures if they can somehow work out where they are - so you would want to be able to target invisible creatures (or squares) in these cases, but have the effects of invisibility apply (50% miss chance, etc).

This is part of a larger issue relating to invisibility, obviously. Ideally, you would want PCs to be able to become invisible on the map, too - but you'd want invisible PC tokens to be visible to their own player. You'd want invisibility to be selective, so players would only see the appropriate tokens. However, I'm sure you've said in the past that this larger issue is too complex to deal with at the moment.

[dr_venture]

I'd suggest just making it an option so that it's easy to choose whether you want to manually manage invisible token targeting or not. For me, I'd much rather have invisible tokens default to having their existing targeting severed and then deal with the very occasional exceptions. And I'm assuming that the automatic untargeting of invisible tokens would simply "sever" any existing targeting of the token which has been set to invisible, and not disable targeting for the invisible token altogether. The GM should still be able to use the manual targeting feature in the CT to allow those who can see invisible creatures to track and attack those creatures (and shout to other players, "He's right in front of you - start swinging!").

[JohnD]

I'd suggest just making it an option so that it's easy to choose whether you want to manually manage invisible token targeting or not. For me, I'd much rather have invisible tokens default to having their existing targeting severed and then deal with the very occasional exceptions. And I'm assuming that the automatic untargeting of invisible tokens would simply "sever" any existing targeting of the token which has been set to invisible, and not disable targeting for the invisible token altogether. The GM should still be able to use the manual targeting feature in the CT to allow those who can see invisible creatures to track and attack those creatures (and shout to other players, "He's right in front of you - start swinging!").

This is how I see it best working.

[Griogre]

This would be a very useful function for me. Player's can't turn off targeting when something is invisible to them (and it shows the location of the hidden monster).

@damned: Instead of turning on and off visibility, try rapidly increasing and decreasing the size of the token - the giant whatever is your active combatant. :)

[Nickademus]

Some questions:
* Does this seem useful?
* Are there situations where you wouldn't want the targeting removed when an NPC becomes invisible in the combat tracker?
* Do people use visibility in the combat tracker when creatures turn invisible, or just use the Invisible effect (D&D rulesets)?
* Any other thoughts?


1. Very useful, if you have players that use targeting and like to metagame.
2. I can't think of any situation when I would not want this. Then again, if I found it a problem, I'd just delete the token and re-drag it from the CT when the opponent became visible again.
3. I use both the effect (for miss chance) and the visibility in the CT (so the players have to try to locate the square).
4. Thank you for asking before making a change that won't be optional. Means a lot.

[Nickademus]

Player's can't turn off targeting when something is invisible to them.

Why not? I believe they can hit the Remove Targets button in the upper left corner of the map or Ctrl+left click the opponent in the CT.

[Moon Wizard]

I just reviewed all the comments and thoughts, and considered this some more.

Here's my current plan to implement in v3.1.2 beta.
* Remove targeting automatically when NPC set to not visible in the CT.

Thoughts:
The lack of ability to easily deselect hidden targets for players without a full target wipe using the toolbar button is a good reason. Also, it seems like this is most likely the desired behavior in the majority of cases. In the few cases where it is not wanted, the GM can re-target the hidden NPC for the player, or the rolls can be dragged onto the target by the GM.

Regards,
JPG