Hunter's Mark IFT Problems

[Aaron]

Hello,

I am having difficulty creating the two condition effects required for the easy use of the Hunter's Mark Ranger spell.

So far I have created two conditions as follows:

HuntersMark
IFT:HuntersMark;DMG:1d6

I drag the first onto the creature which is marked, and the IFT effect onto the Ranger who does the casting. The extra 1d6 damage is rolled, but it is also being rolled on creatures without the HuntersMark effect, so the condition is not checking correctly somewhere.

Any help with this is appreciated. :)

[damned]

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?23926-Effects-help-Protection-from-Evil-and-Hunter-s-Mark&p=208309&viewfull=1#post208309

[TASagent]

Hey Aaron,

The key to getting the 1d6 to trigger only off of some creature's attacks is to set the Effect Target. This can be done by shift-dragging the effect onto the enemy. You can also set it using the targeting cursor in the expanded effect window in the Combat Tracker. When you do that, you only need One effect. Fantasy Grounds doesn't actually let you conditionally key off arbitrary conditions (yet? :) ).

That being said, I wasn't a particularly huge fan of those options, so I created the Effect Targeting Enhancement (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?24573-Effect-Targeting-Enhancement-(Extension)). The example that I show, Hex, works just like hunters mark, so the setup should be the same. Let me know if you'd like to use it and have any questions.

[Aaron]

Thanks for the link Damned.

Thanks for the info TASagent. I think I'll try the shift-drag, and then have a look at your extension.

Have fun. :)

[Trenloe]

his can be done by shift-dragging the effect onto the enemy.
Is this working in 5E? I can't get this to work for me in a 5E vanilla v3.1.0 campaign. However, I can get it to work in a 3.5E campaign.

[Trenloe]

To clarify - you can use IFT conditional effects, but you can't create bespoke "conditions", the ruleset only recognises conditions that have been pre-defined within the ruleset itself or in an extension. This is to make conditional effects work more cleanly and not have random trigger on any free-form keyword. Hence the reason why there are a number of extensions that provide additional conditions. Here's one: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22803-Channel-Divinity-Paladin-Vow-of-Emnity-Effect&p=195251&viewfull=1#post195251

As TASagent mentions, a player can SHIFT-DRAG an effect to the CT that will be applied to the currently targeted creature. See posts #7 and #8 below for steps on this.

The GM can use the targeted effect icon in the CT as TASagent mentions - this is only available to the GM, not the players.

So to give players control of things like Hunter's Mark you can use the SHIFT+drag process to target a specific effect, or you can use an extension to allow players to control who their effects apply against - either use the optional conditions extension to allow you to apply custom conditions and/or use TASagent's effects targeting extension.

[Moon Wizard]

I was able to Shift-drag an effect in base 5E just now.

Steps
* From PC, I targeted a goblin using CT.
* From PC, I shift-dragged an effect and dropped on the same PC.
* An effect was created in the CT on the goblin with the PC as the effect target.

Regards,
JPG

[Trenloe]

Steps
* From PC, I targeted a goblin using CT.
* From PC, I shift-dragged an effect and dropped on the same PC.
* An effect was created in the CT on the goblin with the PC as the effect target.
Thanks for checking.

I was getting confused exactly the process on doing this - and I seemed to be able to do it in 3.5E OK, but not in 5E. But, following your example I can get the effect targeted.

So, in our example (Hunter's Mark adding 1d6 damage to only the goblin target), as a player I would:

From PC, I targeted myself (the same PC) using CT.
From PC, I shift-dragged an effect and dropped on the goblin on the CT.
An effect was created in the CT on the PC with the goblin as the effect target.


Thanks for clarifying. I'll edit my posts... :)

[Aaron]

Thankyou for the clarification Trenloe. As you said, I was trying to create an arbitrary effect called Hunter's Mark, but without an extension it wouldn't work, as it wasn't defined in the core conditions.

Using your steps, I can make the effect work as normal. I find it easier just to drag the effect onto the PC, and then target the effect onto their target. I'll have a look at the Draca's Optional Conditions, but for now, this basic use of FG effects will work for me.

Thanks again for the help.

[Callum]

I was getting confused exactly the process on doing this - and I seemed to be able to do it in 3.5E OK, but not in 5E. But, following your example I can get the effect targeted.

So, in our example (Hunter's Mark adding 1d6 damage to only the goblin target), as a player I would:

From PC, I targeted myself (the same PC) using CT.
From PC, I shift-dragged an effect and dropped on the goblin on the CT.
An effect was created in the CT on the PC with the goblin as the effect target.



If that's the process, it's no wonder Trenloe was confused! It seems to me to be completely the wrong way round. So you must target yourself and drag an effect onto an NPC in order to create an effect on yourself that targets the NPC?! Intuitively, I would feel that I would target the NPC and drag the effect onto myself if I wanted to end up with an effect on myself that was targeting the NPC. Why is it the other way around?

[TASagent]

So, there are two separate concepts here, the Target, and the Effect Target. The target is who gets the effect, the Effect Target acts as a sort of filter for when it's applied.

For an ability like the one in question, there tends to be two ways of setting it up to do what you want: You make the creature the target and you the effect target, or you make yourself the target and the creature the effect target. Depending on the effect text, you want to put the ability different places. Extra damage rolls would go on the player, like "DMG:1d6 necrotic", whereas vulnerability would go on the enemy, like "VULN: acid". For something like advantage, you can put it either place, as long as you use the right modifier. You can make the enemy GRANTADVATK to you, or you can ADVATK him.

I just tested these and they both worked for me:

To put the effect on the enemy with an effect target of yourself: Make sure the effect description doesn't read [SELF], Target the enemy, Shift-drag the effect to yourself.

To put the effect on yourself with the effect target of your enemy: Make sure the effect description reads [SELF], Shift-drag the effect to the enemy.

Edit: Corrected; You do not need to set the target if your shift-dragged effect targets yourself. By construction, it will ignore your current target.

The target that you shift-drag the ability to becomes the Effect Target, aka the *filter* that is applied to determine if the effect triggers.

This is somewhat tricky, and I didn't feel like explaining it to each of my players, <plug> which is why I developed the Effect Targeting Enhancement extension. With it, the Effect Description UI looks like this:
10186

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this is precisely why I made it in the first place; shift-drag isn't super intuitive in behavior, and usually takes a bit to explain. With the ability configured above, you just select your targets as usual, and activate it.

[Moon Wizard]

I think we need better wording for "effect targets", but I haven't found anything better that is easier for an average person to understand. Plus, the concept isn't necessarily trivial either. Most other synonyms are not great (victims, marks, quarries, prey, ...).

It might even be better to eventually reword as a conditional (IFTARGET = ID or NAME) in the long run, but now I'm just brainstorming. I still want to rebuild the effect subsystem, but I'm trying to restrain myself until we get Unity system into testing stage before I do anything like that.

Regards,
JPG

[TASagent]

Yeah, I considered slapping on a different label when I was creating the extension, but I couldn't come up with one that I considered any better (plus, I wanted it to match existing documentation and tooltips). Beneficiary? Conditional Asignee? Exclusive effector? A superior alternative, should one exist, probably wouldn't use the term "target", for maximal confusion avoidance, but that doesn't leave great options. Maybe "Subject"? Perhaps even just "Key" or "Filter"? Effect Trigger? Most of these still lack clarity in that it's not obvious that we're talking about an actor and not a thing.

Yeah. I don't think I'm alone in having my first attempt at adding this functionality to my game be a custom condition I tested for (like "hexed" and "IFT: hexed; DMG 1d6 necrotic". Though a more robust system using that implementation would require also testing to make sure the actor was the one who applied the condition in the first place. But I guess that could be approached with the ability to spit out a tag that is autopopulated with your own id. Like "hexed[ME]" and "IFT: hexed[ME]; DMG 1d6 necrotic". It any case it would require weakening the constraints you have on the sort of strongly-typed conditions.

[MTS]

woops - wrong forum

[Uraence]

Don't know if you ever got an answer for this, but it looks like you left out CUSTOM in the effect code.

Effect on Target: Marked
Effect on Self: Hunters Mark;IFT: CUSTOM(Marked); DAM:1d6

[Zacchaeus]

Don't know if you ever got an answer for this, but it looks like you left out CUSTOM in the effect code.

Effect on Target: Marked
Effect on Self: Hunters Mark;IFT: CUSTOM(Marked); DAM:1d6

This is an old post. I don't think the CUSTOM function was around then

[Uraence]

Ah, I didn't even look at the date. I guess there's a Necro running around here! :P