5E Dungeon Master Guide Release Date?

[jasonlalanne]

Is there a estimated release date for the 5E DMG :) I'm super excited to see it released.

[Zacchaeus]

See post below.

[Nylanfs]

Soon(TM) (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealSoonNow)
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Disclaimer: Legally required TVTropes link warning. Your lost productivity is not my problem.

[Griogre]

Smiteworks has said it will be release after currently released adventure modules, ie after Hoard of the Dragon Queen (just out), Rise of Tiamat, and Princes of the Apocalypse; but before Out of the Abyss.

[Larac]

Wow so long, errrgggggggggggggg.

[Griogre]

It *shouldn't* be that long. Rise of Tiamat is about finished, basically in WotC approvals. Princes was like 30% done a few weeks ago. My wild *** guess is like the end of June. However, one of the reasons they were doing this later than the modules was they were still working on what would be the best way to implement magic items in the ruleset (other than just text).

[Doc_Jones]

Perhaps this would be a good topic to have as a sticky that one of the Dev's can update. Not to have dates per se, but just to have the information up so that people can look about for it. There's like half a dozen of this same question thread up, and I know Ddavidson would probably rather spend his time developing instead of fielding eta questions.

[Cheezegr8r]

can't wait to get my hands on it! hopefully it's out after the 4th of July

[Baron Von Mandrick]

Now that PotA is out, that appears to be next on the list. I'm really looking forward to that one as well.

[Zacchaeus]

Best source of information on such things is contained in Zeus's signature block :)

[epithet]

I would guess that the DMG can't be released until the next patch (the current test version) goes live.

[Redemption77]

Any word on that DMG getting released?

[Ramius613]

It is not soon(TM), yet.

[Mavrik6666]

Official Smiteworks comment , or are you all looking away and whistling ?
:)

[Griogre]

There has been no official comment but in Zeus' signature block it says

...
Recently Completed 5E Projects: 5E Unearthed Arcana Vol1, 5E EE Player's Companion, 5E Prince of the Apocalypse, 5E Leather Exec Theme, 5E Rise of Tiamat, 5E Hoard of the Dragon Queen (+custom maps), 5E Dungeon Masters Guide, 5E Monster Packs, 5E Monster Manual, 5E Class Packs, 5E Players Handbook, 5E Official Theme, 5E Basic Rules DM, 5E Lost Mine of Phandelver, 5E Basic Rules - Player, 5E Gadzooks Theme, D&D Next Ruleset


That status has been there a while now for the DMG.

[Wonderbringer]

It also says...

Current 5E Project*: D&D 5E Magic Items & Parcel Generator

I assume the DMG won't be released until this is completed. It has been in the works for some time now as well. So hopefully soon.

[Griogre]

I suspect the actual text data entry is done, they are just trying to implement magic items and other unique things like that in the ruleset. Until they get that done they may not want to make the tables.

I probably should have quoted the whole block though.

[JeffKnight]

Here's hoping it is soon to be finished, though.

[Nyghtmare]

Agreed.

I can't wait to throw money at them on the day that this is released! :D

[Raz651]

Can't wait. Is it Soon(tm) yet? :p

[Nylanfs]

You mean you don't have yours yet? :ninja:

[kylania]

You mean you don't have yours yet? :ninja:

You make baby ky cry. :(

[Raz651]

You mean you don't have yours yet? :ninja: No! Where can I get it. :cry:

[MadBadHare]

You make baby ky cry. :(


No! Where can I get it. :cry:

Welcome to the "Check the SmiteWorks store many times a day" game. ;)

[Nyghtmare]

They really need to design an announcement so that it will pop up on all of our devices (computers, smart phones, whatever!) and tell us to stop everything that we are doing so that we can throw money at Smite for the just-released DMG!!

[epithet]

... the just-released DMG!!

You made me check the store page. You got me. Grr.

[Nyghtmare]

You made me check the store page. You got me. Grr.

That was for the future, when it actually IS released.

Sorry for your confusion, even if it did make me lol just a little. ;)

[Nylanfs]

Or perhaps Nyght is a Timelord getting his ball of timey whimy stuff mixed up?

[Nyghtmare]

Or perhaps Nyght is a Timelord getting his ball of timey whimy stuff mixed up?

Could I end up creating a paradox by letting the cat out of the bag too early?

*wanders off to ponder*

[epithet]

I'm guessing that if the Honor and Sanity stats were going to be supported with the release of the DMG, those options would have been in the last patch. Is that a reasonable guess?

[MTS]

You mean you don't have yours yet? :ninja:

Oh that was mean. You got me excited too and I stopped reading the thread to go check ... nope. Still not there yet...

But it was a good LOL... Kudos!

[Nylanfs]

My job here is complete. ;-)

[Morgentaler]

We just never gonna get it..it's a rumor and a troll to force us to learn all the codding and parse ourselves..

[Koreapsu]

We just never gonna get it..it's a rumor and a troll to force us to learn all the codding and parse ourselves..

TBF the end result would be better.

[kylania]

TBF the end result would be better.

Considering that the public version of PAR5E can't create Parcel Generators nor working magical items, I'm thinking your snarky comment is a bit incorrect.

[MadBadHare]

Wasn't a constructive post - I decided it was NOT needed...

[Xorn]

1. I'm positive the DMG module is amazing.
2. I'm positive the SmiteWorks is just waiting on WotC.

[ddavison]

This hasn't been released to Wotc for approval and review at this time. It's not ready and wouldn't pass the review in its current state, and would likely fall short of expectations by the FG community. It also still has additional work to be done on the Item Forge. The parcel generator and the other generators and enhanced functionality will most likely be released in the future, as time permits. Since those dates may or may not be reached in the short term (or at all), we will be very careful to provide exactly what *is* included in the final version at sale and we would encourage people to buy it based on that functionality as opposed to planned future enhancements.

Zeus was working on it pretty heavily until the last month or so when he had some real life emergencies to deal with. At this time, it does not look like Zeus will have the time to complete the module and we are looking to take it over once we get the last version of the code from Zeus. The text and most of the images are currently parsed. Additional images still need to be added and images need to be reworked for a number of them to hide the masking that was used in the print version of the book. The text and tables are all "complete" but still need to go through to look for common errors that we sometimes find when dealing with parsed text.

[maugrim8866]

Thanks for the update ddavison

[epithet]

I hope Zeus comes through his difficulties, whatever they are, as well as possible. He's a man of obvious talent and skill and he's been a tremendous benefit to this community.

[Wonderbringer]

Best of wishes to Zeus and thank you Doug for the clarification. I'm most certain that many in the community have just been anxious for the DMG content and the Item Forge ever since it's teaser awhile back. I know I have been. I sure you guys will take the necessary time to make sure we are delivered with a quality product that we will all enjoy.

[kylania]

*bakes Zeus a Best Wishes from the Internet pie*

[MTS]

It looks like there may be a lot of volunteers here who would be willing to take a chunk if you need help! I wish Zeus the best, and hope his R/L emergencies aren't too overwhelming. Please let us know if there's anything the community can do.

And, Thank you Doug for the explanation. As amazing as it's going to be, we certainly recognize the huge amount of effort that goes into something like this release. No pressure - and thank you for helping create and propagate this amazing application. I played another game last night - and again learned new things about Fantasy Grounds. You guys are brilliant. Thank you, thank you, and THANK YOU.

[Nyghtmare]

I too hope that everything works out for Zeus with his real life emergency.

I totally understand the delay and definitely appreciate the update.

[Redemption77]

This update was much needed and disheartening. I hate hearing a member of our community is having a tough go. Zeus I hope everything looks up soon if it hasnt already. As for the DMG hopefully someone in the know is able to step up and hammer this out because I think it will sell amazingly well and will be worth it. Appreciate the update Doug.

[ddavison]

Thanks everyone. Zeus is amazing and he has been unbelievable in his support of Fantasy Grounds, both through his work on 5E, the Unity rewrite, the parser, and in many other internal projects. We really hope to see him back at some point, but it looks like we may need to move forward without him -- at least for a little while. Once we sync up with him on where he left off, we may indeed reach out to a few other community folks to help fill the gap.

On the positive side, we've already started doing that with TASAgent building Scourge of the Sword Coast (completed), Out of the Abyss (completed and in review) and Legacy of the Crystal Shard (in progress) and Zacchaeus (reviewing Out of the Abyss). Having looked at the quality of this work, I am very pleased by what I'm seeing and I look forward to seeing more from those guys.

One of the things that is unique about Zeus is his ability to do amazing coding and graphics work. That won't be an easy gap to fill.

[Redemption77]

The community here is full of amazing people. If any community can pull a rabbit from their backends its this one. Lets get this DMG done so Zeus can see the fruits of his labors pay off in the long run

[Baron Von Mandrick]

Definitely wish Zeus the best in the real life situation. I think it's great that other folks in this community have offered to help. I'm super thankful for all the work Zeus has done so far. Regardless of what happens with the DMG, hopefully for Zeus the best that come out of it in real life will be the end result.

[damned]

Best wishes Zeph!

[GuardianLurker]

Well d***.

This is timely then. Here' a barebones DMG Treasure Table module for people to use until everything works out.

MODERATOR: Sorry, can't post that.

[damned]

Hey GuardianLurker - awesome work you have done there. The module works really well - but.... I think it contains copyright info.... I dont think you can share it...

[epithet]

Hey Trenloe, maybe next time leave it up a couple hours before you go all "copyright cop" on it... I didn't have a chance to download the extension 'for evaluation purposes' yet.

I mean, pretty much every DM on these boards is gonna buy the official version when it finally comes out, anyway.

[epithet]

On a different note, the DMG has optional rules for Sanity and Honor stats. I suspect that implementing these options is more of a 5e ruleset thing than a DMG module thing, is that an accurate impression? Is having a toggle in the options for "use Sanity" something that would be more effort than it would be worth? It will be a while before I start a Primeval Thule campaign in my 'home' game, but when I do I'd like to play with madness (the prophet stared at his crystal ball (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvqr366Op3k).)

[damned]

Hey Trenloe, maybe next time leave it up a couple hours before you go all "copyright cop" on it... I didn't have a chance to download the extension 'for evaluation purposes' yet.

I mean, pretty much every DM on these boards is gonna buy the official version when it finally comes out, anyway.

I know you mean it in jest but it is important that everyone here respects the copyright holders rights. Apart from everything else it would be very damaging to the licensing deal and make it harder for future deals with publishers.

[kylania]

\m/ Up the Irons! \m/

I'm guessing you'd want to add a new tab to the character sheet, but not sure how easy that would be with the content all being locked down.

[damned]

On a different note, the DMG has optional rules for Sanity and Honor stats. I suspect that implementing these options is more of a 5e ruleset thing than a DMG module thing, is that an accurate impression? Is having a toggle in the options for "use Sanity" something that would be more effort than it would be worth? It will be a while before I start a Primeval Thule campaign in my 'home' game, but when I do I'd like to play with madness (the prophet stared at his crystal ball (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvqr366Op3k).)

These sorts of questions are why the DMG is such a monumental undertaking. Giving optional rules in the DMG the framework to operate in is such a huge task. Im glad im not coding this!

[epithet]

\m/ Up the Irons! \m/

I'm guessing you'd want to add a new tab to the character sheet, but not sure how easy that would be with the content all being locked down.

I was thinking just another stat on the front page and an implemented abbreviation for it to use in effects. For example, if you toggle "Use Sanity" to the "on" position, you would see Sanity below Charisma on the first tab (both the stat and the save), you could manually add a skill that was modified by the sanity stat, and you could write effects that called SAN as a modifier variable.


By the way, Ky--If you haven't seen the 2Cellos cover of The Trooper (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVH1Y15omgE), you really should.

[Trenloe]

but not sure how easy that would be with the content all being locked down.
The base ruleset mechanics isn't all locked down. It's available in 5E.pak. And you can always make an extension to cover it (which is recommended).

[kylania]

By the way, Ky--If you haven't seen the Two Cellos cover of The Trooper, you really should.

It's hard to beat Steve'n'Seagull's version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li58voy6xXM), but I'll check it out. :)


The base ruleset mechanics isn't all locked down. It's available in 5E.pak. And you can always make an extension to cover it (which is recommended).

Ahh, cool! I'll have to look into that.

[TASagent]

I was thinking just another stat on the front page and an implemented abbreviation for it to use in effects. For example, if you toggle "Use Sanity" to the "on" position, you would see Sanity below Charisma on the first tab (both the stat and the save), you could manually add a skill that was modified by the sanity stat, and you could write effects that called SAN as a modifier variable.

Right, but even this simple rule is more complicated than that. Because there's also madness, which can give you new Flaws, and occasionally calls for Charisma saving throw - unless you're using Sanity, in which case it has you make a Sanity saving throw. And that's just the first exception off the top of my head for your example of a simple modification.

Granted, the response can be to leave handling that to the players, but a common question is "What level of automation (or lack of automation) is expected and acceptable?"

[ddavison]

My initial thought would be to allow handling of this directly in the Notes section and/or notes for the DM to know who has what level of Insanity. It is possible for players to have multiple fits of madenss, each with different durations, different triggers, different degrees, etc.

[TASagent]

epithet, as someone who has made an extension that messes with the character sheet (the vitality extension adds three boxes to the character sheet and changes the hit point calculation), I can tell you that it's certainly possible on an individual basis, but things become super tricky when you start talking about multiple, independent options, and making sure that the system is clean and usable with any meaningful combination of the options selected. Not to mention the need for that whole mess to still be compatible with other extensions. If the DMG modifications weren't made well (and clearly), it would become impossible to develop community extensions that played nice with the DMG options.

[epithet]

TAS, that's why I for one am glad to have you working on it.

In terms of what should be automated, I was just thinking of saves and checks. I've never played with an extra stat before (unless you count comeliness, from way back when) so its all guesswork for me as to how Sanity would work in practice, anyway.

[kylania]

Here's some more information about Madness from the AL site: https://dndadventurersleague.org/the-safety-of-a-shattered-mind/

[TASagent]

Thanks epithet, but the DMG isn't on my plate. But I am doing Out of the Abyss.

[TASagent]

Here's some more information about Madness from the AL site: https://dndadventurersleague.org/the-safety-of-a-shattered-mind/

Ahh, cool. So it looks like they have talked about how madness fits in with Rage of Demons. I have toyed with the idea of making an extension to help handle it. When I have some extra spare time (spare spare time, I suppose), I want to test a few concepts. If it works out I'll probably clean it up and release it as an extension. If it doesn't, I'll pretend like I never tried and failed. It's Win-Don't Lose!

[kylania]

There's more here too: https://dnd.wizards.com/dungeons-and-dragons/story

Each of the Demon Lord/Price/Queen/Whatevers has a page which details their own special brand of insanity manifestations.

[TASagent]

Yep, and supporting different madness tables elegantly is the main thing I would want to test. I have a scheme for handling it in mind, I would just need to see if it's possible and if it doesn't feel too clunky. Plus, since the extension couldn't include the copyright Wizards material, it would need to support essentially "plugging in" a table to use. That's the tricky part.

[GuardianLurker]

Hey GuardianLurker - awesome work you have done there. The module works really well - but.... I think it contains copyright info.... I dont think you can share it...

OK. Thought it was within the Fair Use guidelines, though. After all, it doesn't offer any of the actual item descriptions, or non-table text. Without having a copy of the DMG at hand, it doesn't offer much of anything beyond automating the rolling. Would more attribution help?

[TASagent]

OK. Thought it was within the Fair Use guidelines, though. After all, it doesn't offer any of the actual item descriptions, or non-table text. Without having a copy of the DMG at hand, it doesn't offer much of anything beyond automating the rolling. Would more attribution help?

I think that Fair Use just covers personal use of the materials, but does not extend to sharing derivative works.

[ddavison]

Sometimes names are also protected by copyright, even without a description. If it has references to specific spells, such as Mordenkainen's .... then it probably would cross the line. You would have to make the determination for each and every entry. Similarly, there are several monsters whose names are protected by copyright, but many others that are not. In the age of the OGL, there were lists of all the things that were allowed and how to comply with the license.

[Trenloe]

I think that Fair Use just covers personal use of the materials, but does not extend to sharing derivative works.
Fair-use is using portions of the material for (1) commentary and criticism, or (2) parody. Basically covering reviews of material and taking the piss out of the material. It doesn't cover converting/copying the original material for general use and then distributing it.

https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/

Personal use is different from fair-use. Personal use is when you privately make use of something you already own (transform the material into something else - make an FG module for tour own game, photocopy some pages for private use, etc.), but you don't distribute it/make it public.

[GuardianLurker]

Sometimes names are also protected by copyright, even without a description. If it has references to specific spells, such as Mordenkainen's .... then it probably would cross the line. You would have to make the determination for each and every entry. Similarly, there are several monsters whose names are protected by copyright, but many others that are not. In the age of the OGL, there were lists of all the things that were allowed and how to comply with the license.

Actually, in the 3x OGL, the monsters and spells in question identified as "product identity", essentially a de-facto combination of copyright and trademark as far as my understanding goes. The "non-product identity" items were still under copyright, the OGL just gave the public the right to use them freely (which is why it was called a license, after all).

As for the Fair Use, private-use-only is fairly firmly established. Derivative and/or transformative works are allowed as well, provided they don't cross a threshold of material used. If the public use is for educational or parody purposes, that threshold is higher/larger. I thought I was under that line, but it's never really been firmly or consistently established by the courts, so I can certainly understand why the admins (as representatives of the company) took it down. All I can do is find out where *they* draw the line. And while I certainly hope the line isn't at zero, it's OK if it is.

For instance, I've got an adaptation/revision for Hoard of the Dragon Queen that I'm reasonably proud of, and addresses as many of the commonly perceived shortcomings of the adventure as I could. However, it works the modifications directly into the adventure text, so the only way it could ever see light-of-day in the wild world would be as a licensed alternative available exclusively through Smiteworks/Fantasy Grounds (and then probably only after discussion between them, Hasbro/WOTC, and myself). So that's never going to be posted, no matter how privately proud of the work I am.

[Ninja Response]
And with Trenloe's response, it's clear that the threshold (as far as FG is concerned) is zero. It's a conservative stance to take, but understandable considering the amount of litigation over copyright and IP that's around today. So apologies to all.

Perhaps though, Smiteworks might release "partial" portions of the DMG (i.e. not the ones that deal with option rules), like they did with the MM? Please, pretty please? 'Cause the entire reason I worked that up (and offered it) was that I needed it when creating adventures.

[ddavison]

Thanks GuardianLurker. Your take is spot on. Right or wrong in the court of law are often endlessly debated and at great cost to both parties. With us being a small party, we are opting for a very conservative translation. It is the safest route for us to take. Aside from the legal ramifications, we also have to consider the effect any decision we make might have on current or future relationships with the publishers of the RPG games we all love to play. Taking this sort of approach has generally worked out well for us so far, as evidenced by the number of official licenses we've been able to secure.

[GuardianLurker]

Thanks GuardianLurker. Your take is spot on. Right or wrong in the court of law are often endlessly debated and at great cost to both parties. With us being a small party, we are opting for a very conservative translation. It is the safest route for us to take. Aside from the legal ramifications, we also have to consider the effect any decision we make might have on current or future relationships with the publishers of the RPG games we all love to play. Taking this sort of approach has generally worked out well for us so far, as evidenced by the number of official licenses we've been able to secure.

Not a problem, sir. And while you're here... what would be the take on Adventure Adaptation modules that *don't* directly include any text (or images (especially)) from the adventure, but do *link* to them, requiring the published Adventure to be available when the adaptation is used?

[Morgentaler]

Fair-use is using portions of the material for (1) commentary and criticism, or (2) parody. Basically covering reviews of material and taking the piss out of the material. It doesn't cover converting/copying the original material for general use and then distributing it.

https://fairuse.stanford.edu/overview/fair-use/what-is-fair-use/

Personal use is different from fair-use. Personal use is when you privately make use of something you already own (transform the material into something else - make an FG module for tour own game, photocopy some pages for private use, etc.), but you don't distribute it/make it public.

So if I understand this correctly? All the nice treasure tables and encounter generators I use on the web..are in breach of the TSA?

[ddavison]

We generally don't comment on other people's interpretation of what is legally available. There have been a number of these tools that skirt the line or that do more than they are allowed to do and often times they get closed down due to a Cease & Desist letter. I have no idea if there are any other legal fees or penalties involved. D&D Fight Club for mobile devices was the latest one I was aware of.

[epithet]

At the risk of coming across as too cynical, the issue isn't really one of what is and is not covered by the law. Most of the tools you see online are ones you could quite reasonably argue in favor of the technical legality of. The problem is that Hasbro has a legal department, and most of the rest of us don't. Also, in the case of SmiteWorks, there is a very beneficial arrangement in place with WotC that no one (other than the Roll20 folks) wants to jeopardize.

I guess what it boils down to is that if you're a hobbyist who puts your minor derivative work online for free, you're risking very little. You might get a C&D letter, which you can either obey or ignore. If you ignore it Hasbro might go to the effort to issue a takedown, or it might not. The chances of you getting sued approach nil.

If you're a small company trying to make a living off of selling your work online, however, you can't afford to take any chances. Even if you think something is probably ok, you don't want to have to defend it with lawyers, guns, and money. Either you lose the effort you put into the work and can't get paid for it, or you spend more than you would make from it to hire Dewey, Cheatem & Howe LLP defend your cyber turf from the big bully.

At the end of the day, it's easier all around to just avoid anything that might get your small business in that situation to begin with.

There is a Brazilian saying which translates into "For friends, anything; for strangers, nothing; for my enemies - the law!"

[Cheezegr8r]

well I really hope they release the DMG here soon... i'm going to go crazy waiting for it.

[MadBadHare]

well I really hope they release the DMG here soon... i'm going to go crazy waiting for it.

Based on what Doug said earlier in the thread, we will have a bit of a wait. Honestly while I would like to have it as much as anyone here, I would rather chomp at the bit a while and get something truly great rather then writing bug report posts because due diligence was not done.
Just my $0.02 - And best wishes to Zeus as well. Hope everything works itself out. You will be missed.

[MTS]

Yeah, poor Zeus. I wonder if Hera caught him with yet another woman...

[TASagent]

Or animal, as seems to happen from time to time.

[MTS]

Or animal, as seems to happen from time to time.

Poor guy must be exhausted.

[GBE300]

Still chumping at the bit for this... If any of the WoTC people read this forum hopefully they will put a rush on it. If they don't read the forums maybe you guys can send them some of the links from the numerous threads asking for it to be ready :P

[Zacchaeus]

Still chumping at the bit for this... If any of the WoTC people read this forum hopefully they will put a rush on it. If they don't read the forums maybe you guys can send them some of the links from the numerous threads asking for it to be ready :P

As is reported above the 'problem' doesn't lie with WotC.

[demonsbane]

(. . .) It's not ready and wouldn't pass the review in its current state (. . .) Zeus was working on it pretty heavily until the last month or so when he had some real life emergencies to deal with.

I hope he is well.

And I was waiting for this module real soon! Thanks for the update.

I wonder if there could be another when the work in the DMG can be resumed. That would be very much appreciated.

[ScooterZ]

I'm looking forward to the DMG being added as well.
I'm constantly looking at the website for any sign that its arrived.
WHEN the DMG is made available, would it be safe to expect a GREAT announcement will be added to the homepage and not something I need to search for confirmation? I'm thinking for the first month of release or something to get everybody pumped. Maybe also something on the WotC site as well? If this could be confirmed, I would expect many would appreciate it.

-- g

[Mellock]

They don't usually make too much fuss about it, other than a few posts in the relevant forums. I actually keep an eye on the facebook page now, too which always lists any cool new additions to the store.

Edit: https://www.facebook.com/fantasygrounds -- for your convenience :)

[kylania]

Meh.. I can't follow that page until I Like it? Facebook is crap. I'll wait to see forum posts about it.

[Raz651]

Meh.. I can't follow that page until I Like it? Facebook is crap. I'll wait to see forum posts about it.

Yeah I hate facebook too.

[demonsbane]

Yeah I hate facebook too.

You guys can follow Fantasy Grounds in Google+ (https://plus.google.com/u/0/+Fantasygrounds/posts) as well.

[ddavison]

We can post here and on the FB and G+ pages.

[Raz651]

You guys can follow Fantasy Grounds in Google+ (https://plus.google.com/u/0/+Fantasygrounds/posts) as well.
Cool thanks. :)

[Mellock]

Oh, I don't have facebook either. I just have the FG facebook page in my firefox start page that has the grid with your favourites. Easy for me to click on a few when I get home from work and want RPG-world updates :p

[Mayavin]

So, do we have an ETA for the DM Guide or not? :)

[Zacchaeus]

Nope

[Nylanfs]

Welcome to the forums and community Mayavin! And like Zac said, Nope.

[Mayavin]

Thanks Nylanfs! That's too bad :(

I recently got FG Ultimate and all the 5e content (Class Pack, MM and adventures) and noticed the DM guide missing from the collection.

I did notice that adventure-wise, content seems to be published around the same time the books hit the shelves. Given that, and the obvious delay in getting the DM Guide covered, I was hoping maybe we've got some progress on the DM guide since the last update on this thread (which was nearly 2 months ago, back in August).

[Zacchaeus]

Thanks Nylanfs! That's too bad :(

I recently got FG Ultimate and all the 5e content (Class Pack, MM and adventures) and noticed the DM guide missing from the collection.

I did notice that adventure-wise, content seems to be published around the same time the books hit the shelves. Given that, and the obvious delay in getting the DM Guide covered, I was hoping maybe we've got some progress on the DM guide since the last update on this thread (which was nearly 2 months ago, back in August).

The reasons for the delay, are in large part, given in post #38 above.

[ddavison]

Zeus made some great headway on it this week (and over the weekend.) At the moment he says "done", we are probably looking at 3-4 weeks out from there to go through final internal testing and then to get sent to Wizards of the Coast for review. If they don't find anything that needs to be changed, then it will be made available for sale after that point.

[whiteTiki]

Excellent news! So we will be expecting it sometime in mid November!

[Mayavin]

Zeus made some great headway on it this week (and over the weekend.) At the moment he says "done", we are probably looking at 3-4 weeks out from there to go through final internal testing and then to get sent to Wizards of the Coast for review. If they don't find anything that needs to be changed, then it will be made available for sale after that point.

That's great news, thanks!

[Morik]

Excellent news! So we will be expecting it sometime in mid November!

I don't think so. I think that they're saying that when Zeus is done, they have 3 - 4 more weeks of internal tresting. Then it goes in for WotCs approval. Could still be a while.

[Raz651]

I don't think so. I think that they're saying that when Zeus is done, they have 3 - 4 more weeks of internal tresting. Then it goes in for WotCs approval. Could still be a while.

What was posted in this thread was before the official tweet. So obviously the timeline has changed. Here are the tweets.
https://twitter.com/FantasyGrounds2/status/656912706906255360

[damned]

What was posted in this thread was before the official tweet. So obviously the timeline has changed. Here are the tweets.
https://twitter.com/FantasyGrounds2/status/656912706906255360

Read to the bottom - still prolly 4 weeks away.

[Raz651]

Read to the bottom - still prolly 4 weeks away.
Read what I replied to. There will be 3-4 weeks of internal testing. (Reduced to 1 to 2 weeks before submission)
Then an unknown period of time before approved to (probably in another two weeks.)

So yes it might be another 4 weeks. It could also be two weeks (one week till submission, and 1 week for approval), if things go very well.

2-4 weeks is alot better than 4weeks +Unknown period of time for approval. :p

[damned]

Read what I replied to. There will be 3-4 weeks of internal testing. (Reduced to 1 to 2 weeks before submission)
Then an unknown period of time before approved to (probably in another two weeks.)

So yes it might be another 4 weeks. It could also be two weeks (one week till submission, and 1 week for approval), if things go very well.

2-4 weeks is alot better than 4weeks +Unknown period of time for approval. :p

It will make a lot of people happy :ninja:

Whats with SmiteWorks being on twitter now? What is the world coming to!

[ddavison]

The funny thing there is that someone in the community set that up for us a long time ago but I either lost or didn't have the credentials for it. After talking with David from Table_Topping, it got me to finally find a way to recover that account.

[epithet]

While I acknowledge that much of the rest of the world has embraced twitter as a communication platform, I haven't. At all.

While you should absolutely evangelise Fantasy Grounds across all social media, please remember that there remains a few of us curmudgeons who rely pretty much entirely on old-fashioned forums like this one, where our scintillating prose may be laid out in all its long-form glory.

[kylania]

While I acknowledge that much of the rest of the world has embraced twitter as a communication platform, I haven't. At all.

While you should absolutely evangelise Fantasy Grounds across all social media, please remember that there remains a few of us curmudgeons who rely pretty much entirely on old-fashioned forums like this one, where our scintillating prose may be laid out in all its long-form glory.

#WhatHeSaid <#embed src="stupidiconwithsoundandmotion.swf" lamename="emoji>

[GunnarGreybeard]

So when is it the 5e DMG going to be available . . . :bandit:

[midas]

*goes after GG with pitchfork*

[Raz651]

I know exactly when it is going to come out. It is going to come out 1 day before everyone stops asking when is it going to come out. :p

[damned]

I know exactly when it is going to come out. It is going to come out 1 day before everyone stops asking when is it going to come out. :p

Someone will still ask! Someone on Steam asked this week if Fantasy Grounds was going to get a D&D License. :)

[Willot]

I dont need no Stinking book to tell ME how to DM *points at chest with his thumb*

When in doubt...You are hit by a falling asteroid for...........200D20.THAT sorts out most problems!

[epithet]

I think they're past trying to time the release of the DMG. I'm guessing it will be available when Wiz approves it.

[Willot]

I think they're past trying to time the release of the DMG. I'm guessing it will be available when Wiz approves it.

Yep, they cant set a specific date yet cause hey dont know when WOC will give them the nod. Thats if WOC have even got it yet...

[Morgentaler]

Well there's some news & screenshots.. on twitter https://twitter.com/FantasyGrounds2

[Fugl]

But they lie.

[Zeus]

The hold up on the DMG has been down to me guys. I've had what you call an 'Annus horribilis' after losing a close family member earlier in the year. I've been back for a few weeks now but have been keeping things on the low down whilst I catch up.

The good news is that the DMG is now in closed testing and I have been eliminating some gaps with regards to Magic Items (we want to make it as good as we possibly can) - you will be happy to know that the FG module will be packed with an 'expanded' set of Magic Items. By expanded I mean useable Magic Items for every permutation the rulebook allows for. Yes thats right, not only do you get the generic 'template' items (e.g. Spell Scroll or Weapon, +2) as listed in the published rulebook you get all the permutations as well (e.g. Scroll of Fireball, Scroll of Haste, Halberd, +1, Dagger, +2 etc. etc.) This I think will be a boon to all you overworked DMs, out there as it will speed up game prep time. Oh and it doesn't stop there either, the module contains all the random treasure tables from the book as well, and they are rollable within FG and link to all forms of usable Treasure including the aforementioned expanded Magic Items. :) Lastly, for those of you who want to be able to create your own home-brew or customised magic items, we will be introducing some new functionality entitled The Forge. The Forge allows you to 'forge' your own magic items by merging mundane equipment with Magic Reference Items (or templates), the tool allows you to build some cool combinations e.g. a Dancing Longsword, +2 or perhaps a suite of Demon Plate Armor of Thunder Resistance, +6!!! The Forge is also in closed testing, so not long now.

[demonsbane]

Thank you very much for the update.

Edit: I hope you can be able to feel better.

[MadBadHare]

Zeus,
I also appreciate the update. Also know that I would much prefer to wait a bit longer and get a well polished product then have it be rushed making me frustrated it isn't working.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK & Sorry for your loss.

Best,

[kylania]

Wow, the DMG sounds overwhelmingly awesome. Thanks for your efforts!

[midas]

Thanks for the update, Zeus. I really wish "annus horribilus" didn't mean what it did for your sake, as nobody should have to go through it. It'd be much better if it meant what 10 year old me would have thought it meant, which is Bad ***, which is what you are.

[LordEntrails]

Thank you for the update Zeus. I'm hoping I get the FG DMG for Christmas :)

God bless you and your family during your time of loss.

[Diceman]

Thank you for the update Zeus. Everything you mentioned sounds really exciting. Will there be random encounter tables includes based on terrain, party level etc? How about NPC construction?

My condolences regarding your loss. Losing loved ones is never easy.

[JohnD]

NPC construction would be an amazing addition to functionality. This was a huge PITA in Rolemaster until the master table was added by Dakadin... would be nice to have.

[Zacchaeus]

NPC construction would be an amazing addition to functionality. This was a huge PITA in Rolemaster until the master table was added by Dakadin... would be nice to have.

What do you mean NPC construction? Other than what is available now? And what's a PITA?

[Diceman]

What do you mean NPC construction? Other than what is available now? And what's a PITA?

NPC construction as in the ability to create unique non template based characters, companion/pet/summoned npc's that players can control. Villains that wear/carry magic items they can use and then be giving to players as treasure after their defeat.

PITA stands for "Pain Int The A**".

[Zacchaeus]

NPC construction as in the ability to create unique non template based characters, companion/pet/summoned npc's that players can control. Villains that wear/carry magic items they can use and then be giving to players as treasure after their defeat.

PITA stands for "Pain Int The A**".

Oh, ok. You do know that you can do that now right?

[Baron Von Mandrick]

Thanks so much for your hard work. I really appreciate it. Sorry about the loss. It has happened too many times in my life, and I know that it is a difficult thing that continues to ebb and flow. Definitely take care of yourself.

All of that is more important than any book, no matter how cool that book will be, and how badly people want it.

Thanks again.

[Danimal66]

Oh, ok. You do know that you can do that now right?

I'll jump in an ask how can you do that now?

[JohnD]

What do I mean by NPC construction?

I'd like a process that looks similar to what we've seen with the magic item forge. Also the Advanced Bestiary for Pathfinder/3.5e.

You have a Create NPC screen. You want to make a 5th level Variant Human Wizard who was a Soldier earlier in life, so you add/drag Wizard to the screen, change number to 5, then you add/drag Variant Human and then the Soldier background.

You then get successive pop-up screens that prompt you to make your selections as appropriate - skills, feats, spells, proficiency, specialties, personality traits, ideals, auto roll HP or assign specific number, etc...

You then want that NPC to have a Ring of Protection +3, a Staff of Fireballs, Dagger +2, seven assorted whatever potions and three scrolls of whatever spells.

You drag all those items (perhaps after having created them in the magic item forge) to the screen.

Click Create (or perhaps Preview NPC) and you quickly get a NPC screen where all the things you added are combined, modifications automatically all calculated and applied correctly, spells with descriptions and all parsing of effects etc... done.

Much easier than working through it all manually (which, yes, you can already do but it takes a long-ish time).

https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=99079

[Zacchaeus]

I'll jump in an ask how can you do that now?

See here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?26697-NPC-Forge-Creator) where he's created a new thread.

[Brynnan]

Yeah, I started entering and parsing the DMG and got a substantial amount done. But When I got to the treasure tables everything blew up, and that was the most important part for me. When I saw the new patch notes, I knew the official DMG couldn't be far behind. At least this is a semi-official announcement that it's closer to coming than vaporware, so I'll sit back and wait. I think I still have some dice around somewhere. I haven't gone completely Virtual. lol.

Any word yet on if it's going to a "one-piece" DLC or is it going to be broken into little bits and bundled like the PHB and MM? (I'll get the bundle, just wondering.)

[ddavison]

It is very, very close to completing our internal testing. It will take 2+ weeks to go through the review process at Wizards of the Coast and if we did our job right, it should pass on the first review and be available 2 weeks after. We expect it should be ready by the 28th for sure, and hopefully by the 21st. Pricing is still unknown, but we won't break up the module into small sub-components. That seemed to cause more confusion than it was worth with the PHB and MM packs.

[Szabtom]

Cool, thanks for the update!

[Griogre]

On the splitting of the PH and MM. I would say it would be worth your consideration of not splitting the MM in the future because DM's are probably just going to buy it all or the basic rules module with half the MM. From the DM's point of view buying by type stretches out the purchase over *time*.

The PH splitting is different. Potentially the customers are different *players* in the group. I think this had the potential to be a useful buying option, but the customer base is just *not* use to buying it's PH's in a series of "micro" transactions, individually or as a group.

[pensezbien]

There are also the underpublicized options of gift certificates (including from players to share the GM's cost) and, for those of us in the US, paying over 6 months to get a more subscription-like form of cash flow instead of a larger one-time payment. For the base software and basic rules there's also now the free trial, happily, although I realize it's harder to justify that solution for the three core books or to get WotC to approve that.

[epithet]

It is very, very close to completing our internal testing. It will take 2+ weeks to go through the review process at Wizards of the Coast and if we did our job right, it should pass on the first review and be available 2 weeks after. We expect it should be ready by the 28th for sure, and hopefully by the 21st. Pricing is still unknown, but we won't break up the module into small sub-components. That seemed to cause more confusion than it was worth with the PHB and MM packs.

To be clear, you mean the 21st/28th of November, right? 'Cause I'm on the edge of my seat over here.

[ddavison]

Sorry guys, it's going to take a bit longer. We had to refactor some code to get some of the new functionality integrated and then that caused us to have to redo some of the data structures. We have not submitted it to Wotc for review yet. I will post something as soon as it gets submitted because then it will most likely start the count down.

[eabe]

:( And I was hoping to get it before Thanksgiving. Going to try and start my first FG game then. Will also be my first time DM'ing. Oh well guess I'll have to do without.

[JohnD]

Better to get it right from the start than release and having to explain why updates are immediately needed to fix what people will quickly see as core functionality.

[Szabtom]

Yep, take the time you need to make it great the first time. Oh, no pressure, you know.
:)

[Wazoodust]

I'd guess that Doug and the crew would like to get this done sooner than later to keep people interested and playing, but it should also be a nice bump in revenue, not sure how many people will buy it, (although I'd be curious about the first week or months numbers), but it'll be more than a couple

[Moon Wizard]

Just pushed the code release to support the DMG changes to the Test channel. You can see the Item Forge button in the campaign Items window, and play around with it. You'll have to enter your own magic items and magic item templates for now.

Just to clarify the difference between magic items and magic item templates, for those looking to play with it before the DMG comes out.

Examples of Magic Item Templates
Armor, +2
Giant Slayer
Sword of Vengeance

Examples of Magic Items Completed
Chain Mail Armor, +2
Longsword [Giant Slayer]
Scimitar of Vengeance

Any item can be set up as a template item by checking the checkbox in the item record. Any of the DMG magic items set up as templates will be able to combine in the forge.

Regards,
JPG

[damned]

:( And I was hoping to get it before Thanksgiving. Going to try and start my first FG game then. Will also be my first time DM'ing. Oh well guess I'll have to do without.

Welcome eabe! The DMG is mostly full of optional stuff. You dont need it at all to run 5e on Fantasy Grounds.

[jajen2003]

:( And I was hoping to get it before Thanksgiving. Going to try and start my first FG game then. Will also be my first time DM'ing. Oh well guess I'll have to do without.

I've been playing 5E on FG for some time now. The PHB and the MM is really helpful, but the DMG isn't required. If you have a physical copy, you should be fine all the same.

[gqwebb]

Oh, it is required, that is why it's a collection. Click and loot, clink and magic item, click and random name for an inn, so much fun just prepping!!! Sorry hard to type on the screen with the drool on it.

[Fugl]

Oh, it is required, that is why it's a collection. Click and loot, clink and magic item, click and random name for an inn, so much fun just prepping!!! Sorry hard to type on the screen with the drool on it.

It is Nice to have, NOT required!

[epithet]

It may not be rationally required, but it is emotionally required.

[warderbrad]

If your wanting to use some of the options such as Madness or Honor, it would be almost considered required for tracking those things without having to do a lot of manual entry and showhorning things in places not designed for it. I am starting to run a OOTA campaign and having madness supported will be a big help to me. I hope it is done soon.

[ddavison]

If your wanting to use some of the options such as Madness or Honor, it would be almost considered required for tracking those things without having to do a lot of manual entry and showhorning things in places not designed for it. I am starting to run a OOTA campaign and having madness supported will be a big help to me. I hope it is done soon.

Okay, so we have some good news and some bad news.

Bad news:
Most of the optional rules will not be implemented in the DMG. They may be added at a later date as an upgrade to the core 5E ruleset based on popularity and how well it can be implemented without doing any sort of massive overhaul.

Good news:
We have a tentative release date of Dec 8th. This might fluctuate a little if the Wizards of the Coast review finds any items that need to be changed before release and it might also be impacted due to the holiday schedule and availability of reviewers. If all goes to plan, though, we should be ready for a release in just a few short weeks.

Other good news. It's pretty awesome. While we could spend a full year just implementing all these cool ideas I have for the DMG and DM tools in general, the item forge functionality is complete and ready and it is extremely cool and fun to play around with. The sheer volume of tables and magic items is also impressive. We really hope you all like it as much as we think you will.

[spite]

Will the optional rules at least be present in the module reference manual, similar to how the SCAG had the entire book there?

[ddavison]

Yes, all the text and images will be available.

[spite]

Yes, all the text and images will be available.

Then you still have my axe! /Gimli

[midas]

https://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1ub5u22aJ1r2xijoo1_250.png

[Redemption77]

With a release date of december 8th we can all rejoice and hold our breaths in anticipation!!! Excellent work guys, especially you Zeus!

[rob2e]

D E C E M B E R

E I G H T H . . .

Can't wait. 8th doesn't look spelled right to me. But I think that's it. Ha!

[demonsbane]

It may not be rationally required, but it is emotionally required.

Come on, it's one of the core books ;)

[jslearner]

Hmm.. I marvel at how patient everyone is being. Not having the DM guide for this long is laziness, especially since it came out in 2014 and is a core book.

ALSO (side note) why do you have the most recent posts listed at the bottom/last of the posts instead of at the beginning/top of the listed posts. I would suggest taking 10 min to alter the programming to fix this.

[ddavison]

Hmm.. I marvel at how patient everyone is being. Not having the DM guide for this long is laziness, especially since it came out in 2014 and is a core book.

ALSO (side note) why do you have the most recent posts listed at the bottom/last of the posts instead of at the beginning/top of the listed posts. I would suggest taking 10 min to alter the programming to fix this.

We only received a license from Wizards of the Coast to carry D&D fifth edition content in April 2015. After getting out the PHB and MM, we made the decision to prioritize the adventures ahead of finishing up the necessary work on the DMG. The DMG included not just content, but additional programming support, which generally takes more time.

For the post ordering, this is the standard behavior used by vBulletin and we would prefer to keep this standard so that it is consistent with most other websites running it.

[dulux-oz]

ALSO (side note) why do you have the most recent posts listed at the bottom/last of the posts instead of at the beginning/top of the listed posts. I would suggest taking 10 min to alter the programming to fix this.

Under your profile settings in the General Settings section there is an option to display the newest posts first. If you have trouble finding it then ask for some help - there's plenty of people more than willing to help other Community Members out.

And on a side note: One of the nicest thing about FG is the FG Community - how friendly, helpful and pleasant it is compared to most of the rest of the Internet. I suggest people keep this in mind when re-reading their posts BEFORE they actually hit the send button, otherwise they might mistakenly come across as rude, and I'm sure nobody want to do that.

Cheers

[jslearner]

Way to go, focusing on the minor point to facilitate your unsolicited rude reply. Your Hypocrisy completely undermines your claim of a friendly community.

[jslearner]

8-)

[jslearner]

DDAVISON
"We only received a license from Wizards of the Coast to carry D&D fifth edition content in April 2015. After getting out the PHB and MM, we made the decision to prioritize the adventures ahead of finishing up the necessary work on the DMG. The DMG included not just content, but additional programming support, which generally takes more time."

1. Thank you for the assist with the ordering.
2. I appreciate your reply. That helps me understand more. I really cannot fault FG since it is often more work to modify code than to write it from scratch. Keep up the good work then. I do look forward to its completion.[/QUOTE]

[dulux-oz]

Way to go, focusing on the minor point to facilitate your unsolicited rude reply. Your Hypocrisy completely undermines your claim of a friendly community.

OK, I was polite before, but since the "hint" wasn't taken onboard let me say this: I found you post rude, condescending, insulting, and very, very troll-like, as is the 2nd one! I gave you the benefit of the doubt because you are a new poster, but I can tell you that on other boards where I am also one of the Moderators you would have been slapped down very hard for comments such as the ones you made. Smite Works and Doug don't need me to stand up for them, and they have a very hands-off policy as far as moderation of these boards is concerned, but one of the strengths of this Community is that we DO NOT tolerate blatant trolling, insults (and you did insult members of this Community, myself included) or similar behaviour, as indicated by the positive responses I received from other Community Members about the posts concerned.

I'm NOT going to take punitive action, and in fact I'm going to bow out of any further posts on this particular incident, but my fellow Moderators will be watching this and so I'll leave things up to them.

I hope that this is a misunderstanding and that we meet each other around the boards sometime, because this IS such a great Community and FG is such as great product.

[gandred]

Let me say that DMG (the basic version) is already in fg... It's called DD Basic Rules - DM. :)

[JohnD]

FG is constantly evolving - it is not "unfinished". We are patient because we know the work is being done and the guys listen to and take community comments and feedback into consideration.

Many are waiting for the DMG even if, strictly speaking, it may not be essential (depending on your POV).

It's pretty easy to see through transparent and blatant efforts to inflame and generate discord on purpose, where none exists normally. There is nothing to catastrophize here.

[Wazoodust]

I'm happy that some of you got ahold of this before I did, I have a less than gracious way with words, and yes it sounds like an angry (not sure what at) troll slipped in and let go. He is new to the forums and probably hasn't been exposed enough to the kind and helpful people on here, even when I've been part idiot. That is what makes me and I believe most of us try and help out where we can.
I am happy to wait for the DMG to be released in a more polished form and understand that Doug doesn't have an office building full of developers building this, they and their equipment would probably all fit in a decent sized garage. I am inept a almost any sort of programming but can appreciate the task they have at hand

[rob2e]

Did you guys see that? ...

[Redemption77]

Lets also not neglect to mention that Zeus who did the work for the DMG was absent for quite some time due to personal issues and while we all love 5e and fantasy grounds this is a hobby for us, this is fun and real life has to take precedent. As soon as Zeus was able he came back immediately and finished the conversion in no time. Lets however not chalk our new poster up to a troll just yet. Bad days, misunderstandings, lets give him a chance to show hes someone who can fit in nicely here

[demonsbane]

1. Thank you for the assist with the ordering.
2. I appreciate your reply. (. . .)

Finally, not a troll to me. He was just asking a bit vehemently.


Did you guys see that? ...

Hey, this is one of my favorite monsters! So please don't troll trolls. They are cool.

[rob2e]

Hey, this is one of my favorite monsters! So please don't troll trolls. They are cool.

Bwahahahahaaa! Too funny.

[Himajin]

I for one am happy to wait as long as it takes to get the DMG done right. I've been impressed with how helpful both developers and the community here have been whenever I've had a problem or question, often fixing the issue within hours, and "lazy" is definitely not a word I would use to describe anyone here. Fantasy Grounds has renewed my interest in a hobby I've loved since I was a kid, and I'm looking forward to watching it continue to get better and better.

[TMO]

I was pleased to read about the general policy this forum and community has toward trolls and otherwise rude posters. I am very active on other boards and I cannot express how frustrating it is when these kinds of posts are allowed to persist indefinitely.

In my opinion, we should always approach concerns with a charitable spirit, granting the benefit of the doubt when we are ignorant of all the details. If we are to be critical then it needs to be done in a positive and contractive manner. Presumption and negative criticism comes from a pure lack of maturity, which can fester in the anonymous world of the web. Behavior like this in face-to-face social settings would quickly position a person into isolation (unless misery loves company, then positioned with nitpickers, complainers, and busy-bodies.)

[rob2e]

If my troll joke was offensive to anybody (except the person who drew it), then apologies. As a former professional stand-up comedian, I simply couldn't resist what I thought was an absolutely appropriate use of Fantasy Grounds itself to show the spirit of the exchange.

Again, apologies. Except to the troll(y attitude).

[jslearner]

I wasn’t going to say anything but this is getting ridiculous.

I didn’t club baby seals. I haven’t been kicking puppies or stealing money from old ladies. If someone were to read many of your posts relating to mine, that is exactly what they would expect from the amount of hate that is generated (some) here. I don’t feel bad in the least for my statement. Hate or don't, I don't care. I have done nothing that I am ashamed of. I sleep just fine at night.

[spite]

I wasn’t going to say anything but this is getting ridiculous.

I didn’t club baby seals. I haven’t been kicking puppies or stealing money from old ladies. If someone were to read many of your posts relating to mine, that is exactly what they would expect from the amount of hate that is generated (some) here. I don’t feel bad in the least for my statement. Hate or don't, I don't care. I have done nothing that I am ashamed of. I sleep just fine at night.

Whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis?

[JohnD]

OK everyone. I'm no moderator but I can see where this is being steered. Don't help him get the train where he wants it to go.

There's ignore functionality - consider whether or not it is warranted as you try to figure out where and how this discord flared up out of nothing, with no reason.

[warderbrad]

OK everyone. I'm no moderator but I can see where this is being steered. Don't help him get the train where he wants it to go.

There's ignore functionality - consider whether or not it is warranted as you try to figure out where and how this discord flared up out of nothing, with no reason.

I agree, all evidence says that this account was created just to troll the group. I say we don't give him any more of what he wants.

[Olodrin]

That is a great point - how do I activate the ignore functionality?

[Moon Wizard]

I think this thread has run its course. I'm going to close it down.

For those looking for answer to original topic, the projected release date is Dec. 8.

Regards,
JPG

[JohnD]

Go to the miscreant's profile and its an option on the left hand side, along with send a PM, etc....