High Tier PFS GM Group?

[cmdisc]

I was just wondering if there is a demand for higher tier Scenarios, since it seems like there are quite a number of people (myself included) who have higher level PCs that we are sitting on. 1-5 scenarios are very common (since they're a great way for GMs to build up a new PC a level or two into a working state) and there have been some 3-7 games I've seen offered. But beyond that the incentive to run a game for credit seems to diminish; for me at least as I'm not as energized to earn a credit for an established character who is in their sweet-spot of levels...I want to play them at the table, not have them level out with credits. I don't know if it's the same with other GMs or not, but I've probably only seen just a few 5-9's around and I can't recall ever seeing someone offer a 7-11 game. But there are plenty of us that could really benefit from these types of higher level runs.

So what if we could get a dozen or so FG PFS GMs together who would offer to run a few scenarios of each of the higher level sessions? 12 GMs each offering 2 or 3 different Scenarios of the 3-7, 5-9, and 7-11 ranges would provide quite a bit of opportunity for folks to dust off their higher builds. And as a group, I don't have to feel like by running sessions myself, I'm missing out on being able to play my own guys.

Thoughts on that anyone?

[hawkwind]

I don't play online but I'm happy to GM higher level adventures, the few I have run have been more of a challenge to players and more enjoyable as a result

[Victor]

Ah, not being a GM I didn't realize that PFS was structured in such a way to disproportionately favor lower tier runs. It sounds like it was not planned that way, but the upshot of GMs using credits for PCs makes it work like that. I have been playing for somewhat over 6 months now and never seen a 7-11 game and only saw a game above level 5 during FG-Con.
Your idea of getting a group of GMs to run higher level games is a good one, but I wonder if Paizo could address this issue in other ways, like giving a low level credit for a GM running a high tier game or something like that. GMs having to gather to battle this issue is good, but could easily dribble down to no high tier games again it seems. A more permanent solution should be looked at as well.
2 cp

[cmdisc]

Thanks, Hawkwind for that offer. :)

@ Victor I can really only speak for myself with regards to GMing the various tiers and what I regard as incentives and what I don't. Maybe I'm just being selfish and looking at the payoff for me, but the fact that I'm not seeing a lot of higher level stuff being offered made me wonder if I wasn't the only one feeling that. Hence a call, so to speak, to other GMs if we wanted to form a loose group, as it were, that focused on incorporating higher tier things. I figured I wouldn't have a problem offering higher level adventures and slapping a few credits on my upper range builds if I know that other GMs are out there offering similar things and I'll actually get a chance to play those builds.

If that makes any sense.

[Malkavian_Andi]

I would definitely play in high tier games (provided I have time). I have a few high level PCs that could use some screen time again.

I actually only had opportunities for high level play online so far, because my local players mostly have low-level PCs (and in many cases, I have to run the tables, so no playing there either, and I only get low tier GM credit ^^)

Maybe a list of available character levels could be helpful for determining possible tiers for high level games.

[kwarner1986]

I wouldn't mind getting in on higher tier action. I have one cleric at level 7 and soon a rogue at level 7 when I'm finished with Hawkwind stuff.

[Trenloe]

Occasionally, over the past couple of years, a PFS GM has offered a high level game and I would guess (without checking back for exact details) that a third of the games went off, and I don't think they ever got a full set of players. However, I think there are more people with higher level PCs around the FG PFS community now than there was before.

I don't think you'll ever get a dozen GMs volunteering to be part of a group to run high tier scenarios. We got 10 GMs for FG Con VI - which is a twice a year special with GM incentives, and a few of these GMs no longer run FG PFS games outside of FG Con.

Also, running a high level scenario is a lot more work than a low level scenario - it requires more preparation (working out all of the spells, abilities, feats, etc. of the nasties) and, in general, more knowledge of the Pathfinder rules.

I'm not saying that having a drive to run higher tier scenarios isn't a bad idea. Just reduce that hope of getting a dozen GMs... :)

[xazil]

A general impression I have is with the rotating pool of people who drop into PFS on FG, start level 1s and play a while then find a group or such and move on keeps the average level down. Most of the time when a scenario is offered there are more people looking for the low tier version so that is the version that is played meaning people have multiple characters at lower levels instead of higher. That being said I have run couple games in the last month or so for APL7s so the base of higher levels is around.

[Victor]

I feel like I have been slowly working my way to the higher tiers and once myself and a few others get PCs high enough to play them, they will magically (how else?) happen. There was some talk of this before the Con too, and put off til after, if I recall correctly, although that may be wishful thinking. :)

[cmdisc]

"A dozen" was just an ideal number. I understand that FG is not nearly as big a field as TT RPGs in general and FG PFS is a much smaller group. But even 4-6 of us aiming for high end stuff would be great. And this isn't meant to be something that takes place within the next set period of time. More like a general call to arms to fellow GMs. "I'll spend the money and time prepping a high end run for you if you will for me" sort of thing. 6 GMs running 3 sessions of each tier group above 1-5 is 324 XP collectively for the FG PFS community.

And with new GMs coming along on occasion, maybe a few of them (along with a few older ones whose attendance have dropped off) will decide to stick around longer once the incentive to earn credit for their low end builds wane and they're being given a chance to play their higher level stuff.

:)

[Blackfoot]

As xazil pointed out, there is a certain amount of ebb and flow to the group, people come and go. Many of them seem to move on from PFS into regular games or they find other places to play their higher tier games... or they start new lower tier guys. I have over 20 characters and my highest levels are only 1-7.0 and 3-6.0s.. I'm in no particular hurry to level them up and I don't like to run games before I play them. I'm not anywhere close to 'high' tier games. Would I like to play games with my 6's? Sure. My 7 is kinda on hold since my partner in crime isn't as available to play with me lately. But I'm happy enough playing almost any of my characters. I like to play the ones that fit the best for the scenario... and I don't have as much time anymore. My daughter wants to play her Level 4 witch.. but we haven't been able to make that work lately. It seems like it's part of the way things go.
On the other side of things... I'm planning on running something again soon. Probably a starter game. If it fills up with new blood, that is probably good right?

[Lord Kavos]

I offered to run the Eventime war series (3 x 7-11) a few months ago...there were a few players wanting to join in when they hit 7th after the con. So i will work out when i can run these & post up games.

On the player side, I have 9th & 8th lvl PCs i havent played in a while (I think Hawkwind was the last one to run a game for Julius), so Im always keen to play high tier, but my work has restricted me to weekends nowdays, so I havent been quite as active of late.

I am of the feeling you invest alot of effort into PC creation, ideas, rp angles, combat techniques etc, and only found out late that you can choose to slow advance a PC for each level. I thought you had to go slow or normal from creation & were glued to that - had I known that you can choose each level, Julius would still be 6th I think, just to enjoy the fun of playing him.

So bring on more high level games - Julius & Kayliss need revivals!

[hawkwind]

well i'm happy to run some thing for high level PFS but its more likley to be high level module like Doom comes to Dust Pawn for level 8-10 characters which I'm itching to run https://paizo.com/products/btpy8xc5?Pathfinder-Module-Doom-Comes-to-Dustpawn

[cmdisc]

I've been looking at some 5-9 scenarios myself...particularly from Season 5. I still have some 1-5's I'd like to run as I'm in the process of building a Zen Archer to 3rd with credit before I table him, but I'd certainly be interested in mixing in some higher ranges; a few 3-7's here and 5-9's there...maybe work myself up to a 7-11 or two eventually. Generally, I'm like Blackfoot and don't like to run something until I've played it; that way I know what I'm spending my money on. But it doesn't hurt to branch out. I just have to do my research and read the feedback.

@ Lord Kavos I could certainly be up for something between or during CONs now that I have a 7th level to bring along.

@ Hawkwind I'd be up for that...eventually, assuming I play and survive to 8th.

[hawkwind]

duplicate post

[lachancery]

Registering my interest in playing high tier scenarios. I have a level 8 Paladin (melee tank) and a level 10 cleric (healing/buff). My other characters are below 7th level.

[Victor]

Registering my interest in playing high tier scenarios. I have a level 8 Paladin (melee tank) and a level 10 cleric (healing/buff). My other characters are below 7th level.

You are the only one I have seen so far with PCs so high. I think when people talk about 'high tier' with the current player base, they mean around level 6-7. So you're golden. :)

[Blackfoot]

I guess strictly speaking... 'Low' would be 1-4 ... 'Mid' would be 5-8 ... and 'High' would be 9-12.. there are lots of folks who have played with us on FG who have high level characters... but most of them have moved on to other venues I think. Local cons or whatever.

[Malkavian_Andi]

You are the only one I have seen so far with PCs so high. I think when people talk about 'high tier' with the current player base, they mean around level 6-7. So you're golden. :)I do have a level 12 character and a level 10 character. After that a lot mid to low level characters. The high level ones just don't see much screen time here ^^

[Trenloe]

I just retired a PC today. Level 12, no more Pathfinder Society missions, time to hang up my sap... Maybe come out of retirement for special events and personal requests for top secret missions (modules)...

[cmdisc]

Congratz Trenloe. May he/she/it enjoy their retirement to the fullest as they grow old and fat reminiscing about their glory days and complaining about how adventurer's today just can't pull off a proper dungeon crawl without all their new fandangled gadgets. :)

I'd like to get to Hall of the Flesh Eaters as mentioned previously (probably around the end of this month), but after that I can combine my "need" for 1-2 level GM credits with some mid-level stuff by looking at Seasons 0-2's scenarios that run 1-7 tier. I see Xazil made a run of 'The Devil We Know' here recently. Are there any other 1-7's that people haven't played and might be interested in? I was looking at the "Among the..." trilogy that spans 0, 1, and 3. Not too impressed with the gold award for the first one, but it still got a fair rating on the Paizo site.

Once I've had my fill of 1-7's, there may be plenty more PCs looking for 5-9's and 7-11's than there are now.

[Victor]

I do have a level 12 character and a level 10 character. After that a lot mid to low level characters. The high level ones just don't see much screen time here ^^

Yep, that's the issue I guess. Here. I have a new PFS character that should have no problem reaching high level. He is in a campaign. :) From what people are posting its evidently not difficult to reach high tier, they just don't see much action (if any) here. With all this discussion tho I anticipate some "mid-tier" games to be going off soon. :)

[Blackfoot]

My goal has never really been to get high level characters, just to play interesting ones. After playing Prindlemire for 1 level on 'slow' I'm considering doing that for all my characters... although.. it's going to take some time for Paizo to produce enough scenarios and modules for me to get them all to level 12 on that basis I think. :)

[kwarner1986]

I wish they would make a couple past 12th. They don't have to do much, but it would be nice for those who put all the work into getting the character to that level.

[Blackfoot]

You can do Modules at that point... there are several of them I believe.

[Malkavian_Andi]

yep. I do have some high level chronicles waiting on a few characters from playing Adventure Paths in Camapign Mode.

Also, there's Eyes of the Ten for characters at exactly level 12. And some of the specials can be played above 12.

[cmdisc]

'Siege of the Diamond City' goes all the way to 15. But that's really meant to be a multi-table event. It could technically be run at a single table, but it'd probably be more fun if we could figure out a way to run several tables at the same time....probably involving an Overseer GM or runners that pop in and out of the various TS sub-channels to gather info or make announcements. Or perhaps a thread on here being used to tally/post results in real-time over the course of the session that all GMs and players can read as they go.

[Trenloe]

'Siege of the Diamond City' goes all the way to 15. But that's really meant to be a multi-table event. It could technically be run at a single table, but it'd probably be more fun if we could figure out a way to run several tables at the same time....
I've been communicating with Mike Brock about running a multi-table special at the next FG Con. He's stated the following: "Multi-table specials require the minimum number of tables to be simultaneously. So, for example, Siege of the Diamond City has to have all 5 tables playing it at the same time and interacting with each other." How do you know what the minimum number of tables are for a special if it doesn't list it in the product support page? Get the PDF and it will tell you! (Not that helpful, I know). The following is what I can see in the relevant "special" PDFs or product pages:


Season 6 - Siege of Serpents - TBC.
Season 5 - Siege of the Diamond City (https://paizo.com/products/btpy8xki?Pathfinder-Society-Special-Siege-of-the-Diamond-City) - 5 tables minimum
Season 4 - Race for the Runecarved Key (https://paizo.com/products/btpy8r0d?Pathfinder-Society-Special-Race-for-the-Runecarved-Key) - 4 tables minimum.
Season 3 - Blood Under Absalom (https://paizo.com/products/btpy8lwi?Pathfinder-Society-Special-Blood-Under-Absalom) - 5 tables minimum
Season 2 - Year of the Shadow Lodge (https://paizo.com/products/btpy8g6e?Pathfinder-Society-Special-Year-of-the-Shadow-Lodge) - 3 table minimum


The plan is to run a multi-table special at the next FG Con. At the most recent FG Con (VI) we have 40 unique players and GMs across the whole convention, suggesting that we would struggle to get a 5 table special together (unless the fact that we were running it brought in many new players). Therefore, we'll probably (to be confirmed) look at running either Year of the Shadow Lodge (3 tables minimum) or Race for the Runecarved Key (4 tables minimum) as our first foray into multi-table events at FG Con. I'll be reaching out to prospective GMs closer to FG Con VII, and posting in the forums, for volunteer GMs and further discussion.

[cmdisc]

I stand corrected. Guess they can't be run singly. :)

Otherwise good options and would be interested in being part of that discussion as we get closer to VII.

[Trenloe]

I stand corrected. Guess they can't be run singly. :)
Yeah, it's confusing as two of the special say the table minimum in their product description, but two don't and you only get to know the minimum in the actual PDF.

So, the only regular options for level 12+ play (beyond the Eye of the Ten campaign arc) are sanctioned modules and APs.

[lachancery]

<sad puppy eyes and sweet charming smile>

Or... Trenloe could GM ussome of those special scenarios that are limited by who can run them; I'm not versed enough to remember their names, other than Bonekeep.

;)

[Trenloe]

Or... Trenloe could GM ussome of those special scenarios that are limited by who can run them; I'm not versed enough to remember their names, other than Bonekeep.
Some of the requirements for those scenarios have changed recently (which is why I couldn't run any at FG Con VI), but I'm working on it...