Copy then Edit NPC?

[arksorn]

Can I create an NPC by copying an existing NPC, then editing him?

I want to make a 4 armed troll. Can I copy a troll to use as a starting point? How do I do that?

[Mistamichal]

Yes. I do it all the time to make variants of NPCs.
Drag the NPC from the library entry into the NPC tab. Then click on it and unlock it to edit.

[damned]

And you can drag it from the NPC tab to a blank spot on the NPC tab to make another copy again, and again, and again...

[arksorn]

Thank you gentlemen!

[Mixylplyx]

This needs to be made more obvious. I would've never known I can do that until I searched for it. Very useful feature.

[Zacchaeus]

This needs to be made more obvious. I would've never known I can do that until I searched for it. Very useful feature.

You might want to read this (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_NPC_Sheet).

[Mixylplyx]

You might want to read this (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_NPC_Sheet).

tl;dr. no time for RTFM.

seriously though, as a UI guy, there's a lot of great functionality in FG, it's just not very intuitive.

[Cerevant]

While good documentation is always helpful, I think it would be worthwhile for Smiteworks to invest some time on UI/UX and making things more discoverable. My party has seriously considered abandoning FG and going back to (other option) because of not being able to figure out how to do things. I can say, if it weren't for the exclusive content, we wouldn't be using it.

[JohnD]

While good documentation is always helpful, I think it would be worthwhile for Smiteworks to invest some time on UI/UX and making things more discoverable. My party has seriously considered abandoning FG and going back to (other option) because of not being able to figure out how to do things. I can say, if it weren't for the exclusive content, we wouldn't be using it.
Specifics?

[Cerevant]

In my humble opinion,

Examples:
* I create a tab on one of the pages. How do I give it a name? Right click? Double click? Nope, you type the name in the chat box, and drag it to the tab.
* There are some numerical fields that can only be changed using ctrl-scroll (the number of these seems to have been reduced)
* I think this was recently changed, but to change the faction of someone in the combat tracker, you had to drag the faction from the bottom of the screen instead of click / right click on the faction icon of the character
* 5e levelling up: you don't interact with the character sheet (you can, but see ctrl-scroll above), instead drag the class from the PHB
* Activate a data module: not click, double click or right click - drag the cover open
* Activate a data module: again, drag and drop an icon from the bottom of the sheet
* Encounter: if you click on the icon for a creature, its placement is removed, no way to undo
* The UI is ok for player targeting, but my players struggle getting it to work. The DM targeting interface in the combat tracker is more reliable for this

General Recommendations:
* Clever & cool should always give way to intuitive. You can have both, but always take advantage of the intuition that players have developed from the UI of other software.
* Discoverable means that I can see (menus, tabs, buttons), or reveal a function using standard mouse commands (left click, left double click, right click, scroll. Not middle click or meta-anything) in a way that doesn't carry out that action (the radial menus do this well)
* First and foremost, implement undo so that experimenting doesn't mess things up
* Don't over use drag & drop, it should primarily be used to move something from one place to another (drag & drop tokens), not transform something. Drag & drop a story link to place pins on a map...ok, a little bit of a grey area. Drag & drop to level up? Completely unintuitive.
* Key commands (ESPECIALLY meta-key commands) should always be discoverable by some other means
* Always ask yourself, "how will the user figure out how to do this" - if the answer is "the manual" then it probably needs some more thought.

Again, MHO, but doesn't most software today come with no written instructions?

[Zacchaeus]

In my humble opinion,

Examples:
* I think this was recently changed, but to change the faction of someone in the combat tracker, you had to drag the faction from the bottom of the screen instead of click / right click on the faction icon of the character
I've only known it to be a click on the little Green/Red/Yellow skull icon. You can drag and drop as well.


* 5e levelling up: you don't interact with the character sheet (you can, but see ctrl-scroll above), instead drag the class from the PHB

You can absolutely ignore drag and drop and do everything manually - no ctrl-scrolling required for any kind of levelling up. Ctrl scroll is for giving a player a temporary bonus/penalty to something. And it's best dealt with by using effects usually rather that ctrl scrolling.


* Activate a data module: not click, double click or right click - drag the cover open

You can open/close data modules by double clicking


* Activate a data module: again, drag and drop an icon from the bottom of the sheet

I'll give you this one :)


* Encounter: if you click on the icon for a creature, its placement is removed, no way to undo

You mean when you have placed a creature from an encounter and the little tick shows it has been placed and you then click untick? Otherwise nor sure what you mean here, but if you do mean clicking untick removes the NPC from the placement on the map then that is working as expected. It is assumed that you wanted to 'take back' the placement.


* The UI is ok for player targeting, but my players struggle getting it to work. The DM targeting interface in the combat tracker is more reliable for this

How are your players targeting; you can CTRL click on the target CT, the map or use the targeting icon on the CT, or drag drop attack dice, effects, damage, spells. What part is giving them a problem and how would you make it better?


Again, MHO, but doesn't most software today come with no written instructions?
Indeed, this is the pattern and in many recent games I have bought I have had to spend several hours before I played them trawling the Wiki's and forums to find out how they worked; or watching Let's play videos on youTube. But I am an RTFM man and I sorely miss the heavy instruction manuals that you used to get with games such as Baldur's Gate for example. :)

[damned]

While good documentation is always helpful, I think it would be worthwhile for Smiteworks to invest some time on UI/UX and making things more discoverable. My party has seriously considered abandoning FG and going back to (other option) because of not being able to figure out how to do things. I can say, if it weren't for the exclusive content, we wouldn't be using it.


In my humble opinion,

Examples:
* I create a tab on one of the pages. How do I give it a name? Right click? Double click? Nope, you type the name in the chat box, and drag it to the tab.
* There are some numerical fields that can only be changed using ctrl-scroll (the number of these seems to have been reduced)
* I think this was recently changed, but to change the faction of someone in the combat tracker, you had to drag the faction from the bottom of the screen instead of click / right click on the faction icon of the character
* 5e levelling up: you don't interact with the character sheet (you can, but see ctrl-scroll above), instead drag the class from the PHB
* Activate a data module: not click, double click or right click - drag the cover open
* Activate a data module: again, drag and drop an icon from the bottom of the sheet
* Encounter: if you click on the icon for a creature, its placement is removed, no way to undo
* The UI is ok for player targeting, but my players struggle getting it to work. The DM targeting interface in the combat tracker is more reliable for this

General Recommendations:
* Clever & cool should always give way to intuitive. You can have both, but always take advantage of the intuition that players have developed from the UI of other software.
* Discoverable means that I can see (menus, tabs, buttons), or reveal a function using standard mouse commands (left click, left double click, right click, scroll. Not middle click or meta-anything) in a way that doesn't carry out that action (the radial menus do this well)
* First and foremost, implement undo so that experimenting doesn't mess things up
* Don't over use drag & drop, it should primarily be used to move something from one place to another (drag & drop tokens), not transform something. Drag & drop a story link to place pins on a map...ok, a little bit of a grey area. Drag & drop to level up? Completely unintuitive.
* Key commands (ESPECIALLY meta-key commands) should always be discoverable by some other means
* Always ask yourself, "how will the user figure out how to do this" - if the answer is "the manual" then it probably needs some more thought.

Again, MHO, but doesn't most software today come with no written instructions?


You make some good points.
My most basic response on this is probably totally unhelpful to you in that it doesnt match your experience...
After using the application (admittedly Ive been using it for a while now) I actually do find it somewhat intuitive. Go figure. Im not sure how that happened as you rightly point out there are several completely different interface approaches but that is how it feels *now*...

fantasy grounds absolutely has a legacy interface. a couple of years ago I spent a lot of time trying to think of ways to actually implement some of the interface improvements/challenges that you and others have suggested - particularly in light of supporting other devices eg tablets with smaller screens - and it was very challenging. rpgs are so bloody detailed and finicky etc.

now is a really good time to be throwing these points - and also specific suggestions on ways to resolve them - as the Unity build will lead to opportunities to rewrite some of these interface quirks - whether that happens or not is another story - but the platform rebuild will give them some more scope, especially in terms of bringing a new UI to new devices....

[ffujita]

> You can open/close data modules by double clicking

*UNLESS* you double click on the closed book, which is what intuitively (and incorrectly) tried to do.

[iadawn]

You might want to read this (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/5E_NPC_Sheet).

Why? How hard is it to include a duplicate option in the rotor navigation. It is intuative (within the mental model that FG promotes).

I note that this thread is 10 years old and yet the solution is still to bury the functionality within a document.... and honestly, I have no idea where this functionality is actually in that documentation.

[LordEntrails]

Why? How hard is it to include a duplicate option in the rotor navigation. It is intuative (within the mental model that FG promotes).

I note that this thread is 10 years old and yet the solution is still to bury the functionality within a document.... and honestly, I have no idea where this functionality is actually in that documentation.
As you pointed out, the age of this thread is... old. In terms of how things are now done, and the link that you are complaining about, it is obsolete.

I don't know what rotor navigation is, but to copy pretty much any record in FG drag and drop it in the object list window. To edit it, open it, unlock it if the record is locked, and edit it.

If that doesn't answer your question or concern, it would probably be best to start a new thread as continuing discussion in this one will only be confusing.