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jokomotion
April 15th, 2015, 16:30
Hi all.

I'm relatively new to FG but not to RMC- I have been doubling game nights since FG got my attention.

After seeing the new DnD launch I wondered; What are the chances of a similar launch with Ironcrown/MERP products?

I like making my own campaigns, but sometimes I have to disappoint my PC's on spontanious nights, if I havent finished one yet. So I for one would like to have some kind of backup... Already used Goblin Raiders and Wedding at Axebridge :-)

Mask_of_winter
April 15th, 2015, 16:32
You mean this: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/?search=&sys=6&pub=10&typ=-1&x=9&y=11&sort=1 ?

jokomotion
April 15th, 2015, 16:38
You mean this: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/?search=&sys=6&pub=10&typ=-1&x=9&y=11&sort=1 ?

Thanks for the quick reply

I already have the available RMC products, and I runned the current adventures. I was more thinking of ready to run adventures and campaigns from ICE/MERP, like "Hillmen of the trollshaws" etc.

Guess I meant "More products" in my initial post

Dakadin
April 15th, 2015, 19:57
Unfortunately, I don't believe ICE is licensed to distribute Middle Earth products anymore so they can't be officially converted as a licensed product. Something could likely be done for the products on RPGNow though.

Ardem
April 17th, 2015, 00:49
I actually have ran, Hillmen of trollshaws. You purchase the PDF and make the module yourself its not very hard. Probably about 2-3 hours of solid work but definitely doable.

ctcharger
March 14th, 2016, 20:28
So if I buy the rolemaster rule set I could use it to help me play in a friend's offline Moria campaign? I think that is what I am hearing. Plus I have a random MERP module I bought which I could try to run someday also.

Very new to rolemaster, never seen or played before and and I am just getting started on FG.

Dakadin
March 16th, 2016, 03:43
Yes, you can enter information from published materials for your own use in your games. You just can't distribute what you create if it contains copyright material.

lamprey
May 3rd, 2016, 21:10
I love Hillman of the Trollshaws! I once had Miffli put down one of my best characters. That was almost 20 years ago.

December 13th, 2018, 23:18
I love RMSS. We had 2 GM's who rotated adventures, so our group lasted for many years.
Even though I love RMSS, it's flexible ruleset, crits, and spells. I felt D&D had better premade adventures, magic items, presentation.
The RMSS had rules to convert d20 characters, and other things to RM or vice versa. So I was hoping the FG system would allow us to purchase D&D adventures, and the RM FG system would just use those RM conversion rules to run a D&D adventure or campaign.
Did FG use the RM rules to allow such a conversion to happen in the background? If so I would love to play many of the classic D&D adventures (temple of elemental evil, etc) RMSS in FG :)

damned
December 13th, 2018, 23:48
I dont think the RM ruleset can open the newer data types.
There is a Universal Modules extension but I didnt include RMSS because it is pre-CoreRPG...

December 14th, 2018, 00:10
I have no idea of all the stuff that FG is doing in the background. I am certainly not a programmer :cry: I just hoped it was a simple formula they could use to convert the D20 stats to RM's stats. Which would allow people playing RM on FG to purchase and play D&D campaigns in FG. Having the FG system to do the work in the background.

Sadly it seems that can't happen.

The RMSS rules had conversion rules, which seemed simple enough. My GM's ran their own worlds so they never used D&D adventures. Thus I never actually saw if the rules to convert a d20 character would actually work.


There was a person I saw I on the forums (a while back) who I believe was also from Australia who, if I remember correctly said he had RMSS rules for FG. So at least there is that.


Honestly that was the only reason I finally broke down to buy FG and will eventually buy the RMC ruleset.


It's sad FG doesn't allow a RM person to buy D&D adventures and convert them in the background. I would think many D&D players trying RM would love that. I guess the problem is RM GM's like creating their own worlds. Which can make it harder on d20 or D&D types that want to try the legendary crits and spell systems of RM.


Thank you for letting me know it's not currently happening in FG. That was very helpful.

Trenloe
December 14th, 2018, 15:07
It's sad FG doesn't allow a RM person to buy D&D adventures and convert them in the background.
This needs two things - 1) The original adventure data entered in to Fantasy Grounds and 2) the code to convert the data to RMSS (and a functional RMSS ruleset/extension).

Regarding #1 - there are many D&D 5E scenarios available in Fantasy Grounds format (basically all WotC 5E adventures and lots of third party adventures). In another post I see you mention running classic D&D adventures - these aren't on Fantasy Grounds. So, for the first step, you need the chicken before the egg - the adventure in FG.

Regarding #2 - the Fantasy Grounds ruleset is for Rolemaster Classic (RMC). There is an extension written to help play RMSS with the RMC ruleset. So, for a start, if the conversion rules weren't in RMC, they're not going to be part of the RMC Fantasy Grounds ruleset. I'm not sure the conversion rule you mention were a part of the RMSS rulebook - was it a separate document?

All of that aside - the conversion code (wherever it existed) is not in Fantasy Grounds. Of course, someone who is interested (damned might call them a "gnome") could write an extension to do some of the conversion... But, keep in mind what you're converting from - if the adventures you're interested in aren't in FG in the first place, then you'd have to enter the original data in D&D 5E, 4E or 3.5E format (or use one of the community rulesets for older D&D versions) first, export as a FG module, and then load that into a Rolemaster FG campaign (with the to be written conversion code) and convert into Rolemaster. Quite a lot of steps - maybe just look at doing the conversion outside of FG and add the converted data directly into your FG Rolemaster campaign.

December 14th, 2018, 16:08
I'm not sure the conversion rule you mention were a part of the RMSS rulebook - was it a separate document?

I'd have to dig up all my Rolemaster books, but I'm pretty sure in my RMSS core rules books (big 3 in 1 book) it had a section that showed you how to convert d20 stats to Rolemaster stats. I think it was in the same section that gave adventure ideas. Most people would ignore this section as most RM GM's (in my experience) like to make their own campaigns. So they don't need adventure ideas. Then the players wouldn't want or know how to convert the stats. So probably a largely ignored section of the rules book. I think it was a formula and not a chart. Which is ironic as Rolemaster is known for it's charts.

As far as D&D campaigns, I figured since FG seems to heavily support D&D that it would sell versions of some of the D&D classics. Like temple of elemental evil. Even if that is not the case, I'm sure there is a GM out there somewhere who would like to run D&D classics with Rolemaster combat flare :)

I tried playing D&D, and I think I enjoyed 3.5 rules in a video game they had a while back. Played a Earth/Fire cleric. It was a lot of fun. I love the strong cleric D&D let's you play. When I tried some actual tabletop games no one seemed to be able to explain how to make a character. It seemed to be even more min/maxing than I do. That's a ton. oddly the GM would always say it's a role play heavy group. So I was a good boy and made a role playing character, only to find out it was a heavy combat campaign. Which hurt when my guy was weak on combat skills. All of those GM's seemed to be running their own campaigns. It also seemed like D&D was splitting itself into fans of many versions like RM did. They also seem to make a new edition every 3 years. For some reason I am not seeing D&D groups play in adventure modules, maybe there are too many different systems? Or they are going through a phase where the adventures aren't as good as some of the classics?

Either way being on FG, I'm pretty sure if I want a group I will end up playing D&D eventually. I love AD&D's adventure modules and stories. Lankmar with it's idea of potentially having an adventuring career inside a city, which constantly changes seems so different from many campaigns that is seems refreshing. The problem is once you've tasted Rolmaster's crits it's hard to not to expect that in other games. :p

Trenloe
December 14th, 2018, 16:46
I'd have to dig up all my Rolemaster books, but I'm pretty sure in my RMSS core rules books (big 3 in 1 book) it had a section that showed you how to convert d20 stats to Rolemaster stats.
RMSS came out in 1995, which is before Wizards of the Coast released the Open Gaming License (OGL) in 2000. I'd be surprised if RMSS published in their mainstream ruleset d20 conversion details without the OGL to cover them using D&D material, even at a superficial level. I could be wrong. But, it's a moot point anyway - as the Fantasy Grounds ruleset is for Rolemaster Classic, not Rolemaster Standard System.

If you really want something like (converting another system's stats to Rolemaster) then it will require the writing of a FG extension. But you'll be limited in the amount of data you already have in FG, see my previous post and my next point...


As far as D&D campaigns, I figured since FG seems to heavily support D&D that it would sell versions of some of the D&D classics. Like temple of elemental evil.
Fantasy Grounds only has the rights to release Wizards of the Coast D&D 5e products.

If you're wanting to run a classic D&D adventure in Rolemaster in FG, then you're best converting the stats outside of FG and then entering the Rolemaster data into a FG Rolemaster campaign.

esmdev
December 14th, 2018, 18:21
The Rolemaster books (all the way back to the beginning) generally had a little section in the back of conversions from various popular games into whatever the current version of Rolemaster was. It wasn't an open game thing, it was just this is how you use this product inside X game or how you made something from X game work in this version. In fact the booklets that Rolemaster is based on were originally designed as an unofficial addon to whatever game you were playing.

That being said it is silly to expect that the inherit design of the RMC ruleset would auto-convert D&D modules of any kind. While ICE might love that prospect, Wizards would slap it down in a heartbeat.

December 14th, 2018, 18:26
Good thing my world is not complicated by all those copyrights :)

As you stated in 1995 Wizards of the Coast didn't exist. RMSS and AD&D did. D&D was a d20 system and so RMSS would only be interested in converting d20 to d100. So it is extremely logical the ruleset would have rules to convert AD&D characters to a d100 setting. Especially in a system as flexible as Rolemaster, that was bragging about it's flexibility in it's ruleset. I mean d20 to d100, what is that multiply everything by a factor of 5? Thus the reason I'm pretty sure the core ruleset has the conversion rules :p Even if I'm wrong, it's still doesn't have to be that complicated.

If you own the source material. Say Temple of Elemental evil and RMSS (which I do, and if I didn't I could buy on Ebay). You could just take a main character that is a level 7 ranger and use a RMSS level 7 ranger. Then instead of a D&D level 7 orc enemy, just use a RMSS level 7 orc enemy. And then use the RMSS treasure table and XP instead of the D&D one. RMSS has methods of creating creatures, so even if you don't have say a rust monster from D&D you could make one. So it's far less complicated than it seems. At least in my eyes. You'd almost just be playing a RMSS game, just using the written parts of the D&D module.


Again very easy on tabletop, probably extremely doable for an extension on FG. Just not applied and seemingly complicated because of copyrights. That being said, since FG does not own RMSS or classic D&D copyrights, FG will not be doing this. Thus if anyone wanted to do this, they have to do it on their own. Which seems to be a theme I will have to get used to on FG. Thankfully I played RM and that is a theme I am used to ;)


Luckily, I own said source material. Sadly, I don't want to be a GM, so I wouldn't be doing that.


Thanks to you, I know that FG only has a Wizards of the Coast license(owned by Hasbro), thus I will call it Mr. Potato Head inc. D&D. Since FG only has games from Mr. Potato Head Inc D&D, and I have never experienced any of their wonderful new adventure modules, I won't have to buy any of those. I assume since FG mostly supports Mr. Potato head inc D&D, I am sure I would eventually get in such a group. Since I am not interested in being a GM I would probably never buy one of those sets.


Although Mr. Potato head inc D&D probably makes very good avatars that I would want, and as a player and not a GM I will eventually buy some of those. I wonder if I can buy a set of Mr. Potato head avatars for my Mr. Potato head adventures. If I get in a Mr. Potato Head inc D&D game I think I want to have a Mr. Potato head warrior, rogue, ranger, cleric etc avatar for the player map, so I can show my Mr. Potato head fellow gamers, how much I love Mr. Potato head. I really like Mr. Potato head adventures, it makes me want to get some McDonald's fries, from when they used to use that good oil and the fries tasted so good.


Thank you so much for your help. You showed me, it is just easier to find a GM who owns the RMSS sets and the classic D&D and wants to run it through FG. Very helpful and good advice :)

Trenloe
December 14th, 2018, 18:34
One thing you should be aware of - Wizards of the Coast own the copyright to all of the previous versions of D&D. They have provided Fantasy Grounds with the rights to produce D&D 5E official products only.

If any of the classic D&D stuff you mention was ever to be officially released on Fantasy Grounds, it would be licensed from Wizards of the Coast.

December 14th, 2018, 18:46
The Rolemaster books (all the way back to the beginning) generally had a little section in the back of conversions from various popular games into whatever the current version of Rolemaster was. It wasn't an open game thing, it was just this is how you use this product inside X game or how you made something from X game work in this version. In fact the booklets that Rolemaster is based on were originally designed as an unofficial addon to whatever game you were playing.

That being said it is silly to expect that the inherit design of the RMC ruleset would auto-convert D&D modules of any kind. While ICE might love that prospect, Wizards would slap it down in a heartbeat.


Thanks for showing me it wasn't my imagination and that there was a method for converting such rules. As you seem to know exactly what I was referring to. Now I don't have to dig out all of my old role playing books and probably spend 3 days coughing from all of the dust that is probably covered in :)

Mr Potato Head inc D&D would have nothing to stand on in court, as converting a D20 character to a d100 character would not infringe on their copyright. Also with my idea, Mr Potato Head Inc D&D would make money selling said modules to be not only in Mr. Potato head adventures but also Rulesmaster games. Thus they could make more money. Alas as was previously established FG and Mr Potato Head inc D&D do not own the rights to the older classic D&D titles. So my idea is not possible :cry:


Sadly I have not fallen in love with any of the modern Mr. Potato Head Inc D&D adventures yet, but if and when I do. I know I will have to use the source material and convert it to d100 myself if I want to play it in a RM setting.

December 14th, 2018, 19:07
One thing you should be aware of - Wizards of the Coast own the copyright to all of the previous versions of D&D. They have provided Fantasy Grounds with the rights to produce D&D 5E official products only.

If any of the classic D&D stuff you mention was ever to be officially released on Fantasy Grounds, it would be licensed from Wizards of the Coast.

I wouldn't have a problem with Mr. Potato Head inc D&D making more money selling that stuff. I live in the state that Mr. Potato Head Inc D&D's owner (Hasbro, thus I call it Mr. Potato Head) is based and that would add to revenue my state gains. Thus I would be enjoying classic D&D modules, in FG, playing RMSS and loving every minute of it , while still helping the economy of my home state :)

Dakadin
December 15th, 2018, 03:08
There isn't any automated conversion of D&D adventures in the RolemasterClassic ruleset on FG but I've run adventures from a few different RPG systems including D&D and Pathfinder. The easiest way I've found to convert them wasn't using the old conversion rules because they didn't always handing things quite right. I would just find a creature that was close to the right power level and make a few adjustments. Doing that in FG just meant dragging the base creature from the library to the campaign. Making the changes to the NPC entry in FG and then just using it. It has worked really well for me.

I've been taking my group through Rappan Athuk at least until they encountered the upper temple and decided they needed to head to somewhere easier. :p We've been playing for over a year now and had some very amazing moments. I did start them at 10th level just so they would have a fighting chance though. :)

hawkwind
December 15th, 2018, 09:29
Rappan Athuk plus Rolemaster =brutal

I have used fantasy grounds 5e products for role-master campaign set in the forgotten realms successfully, i didn't use dammed extenstion andt I found something on the forums that showed me how, k it was changing a few lines in the role-master code in the base.xml file. To get to copy your role master pak file to another location and change the file extension to zip
replace the file with the one i have attached , rezip the files and change the file extension back to pak and please keep a backup of the original in case it all goes pear shaped

When doing the conversions i wouldn't worry to much on getting the monsters right just use the plot elements plus maps and just create npc's suitable for players current power level

December 15th, 2018, 15:58
Rappan Athuk plus Rolemaster =brutal

I have used fantasy grounds 5e products for role-master campaign set in the forgotten realms successfully, i didn't use dammed extenstion andt I found something on the forums that showed me how, k it was changing a few lines in the role-master code in the base.xml file. To get to copy your role master pak file to another location and change the file extension to zip
replace the file with the one i have attached , rezip the files and change the file extension back to pak and please keep a backup of the original in case it all goes pear shaped

When doing the conversions i wouldn't worry to much on getting the monsters right just use the plot elements plus maps and just create npc's suitable for players current power level

Wow, thank you so much. I have to say the FG community is very helpful :)

Dakadin
December 15th, 2018, 18:59
Rappan Athuk plus Rolemaster =brutal

Rappan Athuk by itself is brutal but yes Rolemaster makes it scary. I prepped my players about it and used fate points. No one has died so far but we did have the cleric in a coma for 2 weeks. They went through almost 4 complete levels before running away. :) They are up at Bard's Gate following the map they got on level 2 right now.

Rise of the Runelords is likely next on the list.

Majyk
December 15th, 2018, 21:56
It was only 5 episodes for us before we reverted back to an RM-based setting but we had fun with new PCs at Level 1ish in RotR and Rolemaster rules:
https://youtu.be/8a54q2zUNtw?list=PLrEy3kvjMfUP4DYAHu8czZ4azqSjGihP u

Trenloe
December 15th, 2018, 23:03
The Rolemaster books (all the way back to the beginning) generally had a little section in the back of conversions from various popular games into whatever the current version of Rolemaster was. It wasn't an open game thing, it was just this is how you use this product inside X game or how you made something from X game work in this version. In fact the booklets that Rolemaster is based on were originally designed as an unofficial addon to whatever game you were playing.
Oh yeah -I remember those now. They really just had a simple table that mapped d100 stat -> d100 bonus -> d20 bonus -> 3-18 stat -> 2-12 stat. Nothing more than that - which, of course wouldn't need an OGL as it is just numbers. There were very brief notes about bonuses and hits, but not much else (looking at an old Rolemaster MERP module) - it didn't even make suggestions for how to map the six d20 abilities to the ten Rolemaster ones.

I'd, wrongly, assumed from the way @[email protected]# was mentioning it, that there was some detailed approach to converting d20 PCs/NPCs to Rolemaster in the rulebook as standard. Which, doing a bit of research, there was a guide released by ICE outside of the rulebooks in 2002 - by Tim Dugger (the main guy behind HARP) - 33 pages. It was released under the d20 OGL - due to the level of detail documented for the d20 information.

GavinRuneblade
December 16th, 2018, 19:20
IAs far as D&D campaigns, I figured since FG seems to heavily support D&D that it would sell versions of some of the D&D classics. Like temple of elemental evil. Even if that is not the case, I'm sure there is a GM out there somewhere who would like to run D&D classics with Rolemaster combat flare :)While most of the classic D&D adventures haven't been updated, this one has. It is now called Princes of the Apocalypse (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.php?id=WOTC5EPOTA). There is even a $2.99 players' handbook option with just the races, spells, etc. but none of the adventure. A few of the other classic adventures were redone as "Tales from the Yawning Portal (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.php?id=WOTC5ETYP)".


The problem is once you've tasted Rolmaster's crits it's hard to not to expect that in other games. :p
This is something that a good DM can fix, but also something that you as a player can step up and do. Just start narrating. Ask yourself "what does that look like" during combat. Your DM tells you that the enemy attacked you and rolled a crit but then he rolls bad and only deals 6 damage, your next in initiative... so what just happened?
"As the enemy swings his axe I was looking the wrong way and started to dodge too late, almost losing my head and taking a nasty gash across the side of my neck. But I follow in close behind his arm so he can't catch me with backswing and try to stab him in the gut" (roll, hit, damage, 2nd attack roll, hit, damage) "multiple hits as I ram my blade as fast as I can into him over and over, but his chainmail holds so seems I only bruised his ribs, I circle around looking for a new opening" (move to a position where your ally can flank with you).

Both DMs and players can be narrative. And if you've heard the RM crit results, you know what words you can use. Note this example is probably too wordy and long for most tables, lol. But it gets the idea across.