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bodhiwolff
April 8th, 2015, 00:12
Hi guys,

Here's the thing. I'm trying to figure out the new official packs, and see if they are worthwhile. I've Par5ed my own player's handbook already, but not the monster manual or DMG.

The pack listings are confusing, and the selections chosen for categories less than intuitive. Does one need to download the Basic Rules set? Or is that basically going to replicate the tables and so forth that I've already manually parsed?

I'm concerned about the class packs. My own parsing of the skills/spells/abilities etc. results in some versions that automatically create Fantasy-Grounds compatible buttons and automatic play options, but often there are things that need to be manually edited. Creating a button that gives the Ranger his colossal damage, or Barbarian his Rage, etc.

Do the official packs fix all of this? Is everything ... well ... idiot-proofed?

My players already spent the money to buy their own versions of FG, but is it *really* worth over $100 to buy these official packs? Or will most of the changes be cosmetic for us?

damned
April 8th, 2015, 00:17
there are LOTS of COSMETIC changes yes. Artwork and all that. The $50 versions include all or basically all the content from the respective hardbacks. Ultimately if you have parsed everything from those you should have everything sans the artwork, tokens and portraits. you can buy a $4 player class and compare some of the differences.


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ddavison
April 8th, 2015, 01:37
If you've already parsed them, then I would probably skip the Complete Core Class Pack or individual Class Packs and maybe just pick up the D&D Basic Rules & Theme to get the new theme -- or the PC Customization Pack that includes the new theme, plus portraits above what you have already parsed. If you really want new portraits for those classes, then it might be worth it for individual classes. There are still cases that require some manual steps -- such as the barbarian rage. I've been talking with the guys to try to come up with a way to handle these better, but some obviously work better than others.

The MM is probably worth it if you want all that work done for you already. It comes with tokens and images for each of those monsters as well.

gandhi39
April 8th, 2015, 01:55
The monster tokens are flat (like a portrait) or top-down/3d (like a miniature)?

ddavison
April 8th, 2015, 01:57
They are flat, pulled from the monster image in the Monster Manual.

gandhi39
April 8th, 2015, 02:05
:cry:

demonsbane
April 8th, 2015, 22:05
:cry:

Cheer up! The art is great and facing indicators were finally implemented.

Edit: right now these two different options (facing and token rotation) for the various kinds of tokens can't be used in combination according to the preferences setup.

bodhiwolff
April 8th, 2015, 23:36
My gang has ruled that we're not going to spend any money on FG official 5E stuff until we see it in action, or read some glowing reviews from FG people. We talked about it during our game last night, but we already have enough bug issues with FG, and we already have to create our own workarounds.

I COMPLETELY support the amazing work that is being done on FG and 5E by the community and the coders involved (Zeus is a hero!) But I don't have any spare cash lying around that I can sink into something that might effectively merely replicate what we've already got going on.

If it was plug-and-play, I might be able to convince my gang. But if it is still "hack and cobble", then we've already got that going on.

I know it is early days, still. Things will smooth out as time goes by.

The theme does look great, though. I've never changed from the default FG theme, so that looks pretty beautiful and enticing.

I'm hoping that these comments (that we'd love to possibly invest, if it truly is a solid and integrated product, so please let us know!) prompts some of the users to give their honest assessment, post review videos, etc.

When we feel that the community agrees that it is a solid investment, we'll scrape together the bucks.

Please let me/us know your experiences.

dberkompas
April 9th, 2015, 00:01
bodhiwolff,

No problem with letting the early adopters work the kinks out, FG will still be here when you're ready!

Game On!


BoomerET

demonsbane
April 9th, 2015, 16:44
My gang has ruled that we're not going to spend any money on FG official 5E stuff until we see it in action, (. . .) I'm hoping that these comments (that we'd love to possibly invest, if it truly is a solid and integrated product, so please let us know!) prompts some of the users to give their honest assessment, post review videos, etc.

For what is worth, you can check these videos made by Smiteworks:

Core module, PHB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nurEMR4JJeU
Managing NPCs and monsters with a combat example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-POluSDHAc
Monster Pack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b9BLbQ6ejw

Tidomann
April 9th, 2015, 17:18
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b9BLbQ6ejw The monster pack link wasn't working for me so here it is again.

Is the Core Player Pack shareable? IE can I force a load on my players if I purchase it, and will they be able to make characters using it?

Trenloe
April 9th, 2015, 17:23
Is the Core Player Pack shareable? IE can I force a load on my players if I purchase it, and will they be able to make characters using it?
Absolutely. When they are connected to your DM session they'll have full access to the module through their library.

Griogre
April 9th, 2015, 17:23
bodiwolff, whether it's going to be worth it for your group will depend on how much you have already input. I've personally already parsed the both PH and MM as well as the basic rules. I like the new theme too, so I bought the Basic Rules to get the theme for 3 bucks - a good deal in my mind.

As a side note I did some themes that work with the 5E ruleset you can download here if you want some more themes: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20355-Alternative-Wood-and-Dungeon-Themes&p=166936

soulcat
April 9th, 2015, 18:32
Given the amount of time to Parse these items, it is well worth it, especially if you consider the cost of time saved. Also with the monster manual it has all the pictures and tokens for the monsters in the book. It is so nice the be able to share the image, and tell the players that is what you see. I have parsed parts of the books, and it took a lot of time, it is well worth the investment.

Dracones
April 10th, 2015, 19:28
Another thing to consider is that as the core FG app and 5e ruleset updates, so will the official 5e packs. I bought Savage Worlds for FG years ago and it's seen many major updates and improvements since then.

The people that work on these packs spend a lot of effort keeping them up to date with core FG changes.

Griogre
April 11th, 2015, 19:18
Something I did not say above. That for a DM who just wants to start a game in a few hours or just test the 5E waters, the Basic Rules is an incredible buy for $3. To run a game in FG - you as a GM, if you use some sort of VoIP, only need maps and monsters. You can use the build in battlemap to do maps, which means the one thing you can't do in a hurry is monsters. The Basic Rules Pack has 200+ monsters, ready to go. That's about 2/3rds of the monster manual.

To the DM, it is just a bonus the Basic Rules come with the four most classic D&D races and classes: Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, Wizard - Dwarf, Elf, Halfling, Human. Then throw in an FG theme.

If you are extremely strapped for cash - and who hasn't been at some point - then there is still Valero's free Basic Rules Parser.

Nylanfs
April 12th, 2015, 01:23
And you can get maps from the armory section.

epithet
April 12th, 2015, 16:29
I bought the deluxe PHB and MM, because even though I had already "par5ed" all of the PHB content I needed and it is not a heavy lift to do the monsters manually that aren't covered by the basic rules parser, well... I wanted to put my money where my mouth was, so to speak, and support the digital release strategy that Wiz of the Coast has started with these offerings. Fortunately, I can afford it.

For those of you who would like a review of the products, here is mine:
The Player's Handbook is a step up in utility because it has a better layout than the module I created with Par5e. As an example, the weapons and armor are presented in an interactive table format instead of a simple list. The complete text reference manual makes it possible to look up a rule without turning to the physical book. The search feature at the bottom of the window will return the sections of the manual that have the string, but will not highlight that search string within the text of the page once you open it. The table of contents is comprehensive, and the presentation overall is pretty slick. There are a lot of typos, however--mostly they seem to be words with a space in the middle, as if they were hyphenated in the print version and didn't translate format correctly. There are a few instances of formatting errors as well, including a couple of feats that are jammed together as one. I bought these on the first day they were offered, and I have already seen an update, so I would assume that the errors will be corrected in short order.

That's an important point: these modules are updated through the FG update manager, so once you've bought the thing you should always (assuming you patch) have the most current version. This is important with the Monster Manual, because it is frankly a bit of a mess. The module is a huge time saver, but for many of the entries you'll be wanting to clean up the formatting after you drag a monster over to your encounter. Sometimes it is little things like having a spellcaster's spell list run together instead of being broken down with each spell level on its own line, other times it is two traits or ability mushed together in one entry. I haven't seen anything yet that couldn't be easily and intuitively cleaned up in a few keystrokes, and it is without any doubt a hell of a lot faster than doing it myself from scratch.

Normally I am an advocate of taking the time to squash almost all of the bugs in a product before releasing it, but in this case I applaud WotC and SmiteWorks for getting these onto the storefront ASAP. Now we need to see a demonstration of their commitment to support and update them, which they seem to be delivering.

As a final comment, the price of these digital books is too high. I am fortunate to have a fair amount of disposable income to throw at my hobbies, and even I hesitated when I saw how expensive these products were on the FG storefront. I bought the hardcovers for significantly less than the price of this digital version, and while there is a lot of extra functionality from having the content in the form of a FG module ready to be used in my campaign, I cannot help but consider the fact that the same functionality is available for other rulesets at a tiny fraction of this cost (or, you know... free.) I believe that they would sell more than twice as many of these at somewhere around half the cost, and while I'm sure they don't want to undercut their printed hardcovers, I think the reality is that anyone who can afford the physical book will probably buy one anyway once they start playing in a campaign, and making these modules more economical would only help to accelerate the shift to D&D 5e from other fantasy RPG systems.

These official content modules are really just a package of time and convenience. You can achieve the same basic functionality using the PAR5E tool and a lot of effort, but that's going to eat up a lot of your game time just to get the tools set up for you to play.

One word of caution to anyone who has been playing with a PAR5E created selection of classes: these don't mix and match. If you drop a level of Rogue from one module onto a character with levels of Rogue from another module, FG will treat that as multiclassing and give you a second dose of level 1 Rogue. Remind your players to level up their characters with same class module they used to create their character with, or re-create the character from scratch using the new data.

epithet
April 12th, 2015, 18:38
... I like the new theme too, so I bought the Basic Rules to get the theme for 3 bucks - a good deal in my mind. ...

I also like the new theme. It's not the prettiest thing I've ever seen, but I do like the fact that it offers high contrast. I use a 4k monitor because I have the same attitude about screen real estate that a dragon does about gold coins, so I'm a fan of color schemes that let me read text clearly even when it is only a few millimeters high.

Gooch72
April 14th, 2015, 03:14
The number one reason to buy the new content is to make this a successful venture. The more profitable this is for wizards, the more likely we will get content and improvements. Just my 2 cents.