A FG dedicated timezone.

[Ferrin]

I was just wondering if anyone had considered making a FG exclusive timezone to use in scheduling games. People would only need to remember what the difference between themselves and the FG time is. There is already an auto converter of timezones when you schedule a game on the calendar. But most GM's I have noticed do not post the times the game will be played on the calendar. Also it would just make it all around less confusing to plan things. Just an idea.

[Trenloe]

Just use GMT. I think having an FG exclusive timezone would actually be completely confusing. Sometimes people use online conversion tools to work out what the time is in their location, if a GM was giving the time in "FG Time" then none of these sites would work.

GMT (UTC 0) is a universally recognised default timezone. All players need to do is go to any timezone conversion site, put in where they are and it will give them a GMT offset for whatever date they choose. I'm in Colorado, so I know that I'm GMT -7 or -6 when Colorado is in daylight savings.

[damned]

the FG Calendar works a little differently. the GM proposes a time or multiple times and people vote on it.
if you use that feature FG automatically adjusts the time for your timezone.

it has advantages but perhaps a simple time, day and timezone field would be better?



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[Ferrin]

I understand all of that, but to me it seems less complicated to add a clock to FG that is in one particular timezone. For instance I am -8 lets say that I find a GM in china +9. Now instead of doing the math and making sure it would be right because I live in a place that does not observe DST at all. To me it would be simpler to just check the FG clock and say ok it will be this time FG time and the guy in China will just check his FG time. Also it should not mess up the conversion software as you can just enter it as whatever timezone it happens to correspond with. It is just a simple addition that could idiot proof the whole schedule process. Honestly If you figure it to be to complicated you are thinking about it to hard or I explained it wonky.

[Andraax]

Well, you've changed it from one person having to calculate the time difference to two people having to do so. And also add in the complexity of those in places that use daylight savings to have to change their calculations twice a year. Why don't you just use one of the many online tools instead? Like this one (https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedform.html) - event organizer puts in the date / time in his timezone, and anyone wants to attend put in their timezone, and the tool shows that date and time in the new timezone.

[JohnD]

It is impossible to "idiot proof" anything. Your opponents are too prolific.

A DM not following good scheduling practices isn't going to be solved by this.

[Ferrin]

Like I said your thinking about it to hard Andrax. A clock app widget whatever, that is uniform for the program added. You look at your clock on the wall it says 3:00 the widget on FG website or program itself reads 4:00. The other people game see the same widget reading as 4 regardless of what their wall clock says. So the DM would say game tomorrow 4:oo FG time. nobody calculates anything they just look to see the difference between their own clock at that moment and the FG clock widget, app thing. Please if this does not seem extremely simple, then I am explaining the concept wrong; I promise guys.

[Andraax]

So, I have to fire up FG just to check the time? Sounds silly. It seems much easier to me to create an event via that website, send the link to the players and I'm done with it. When they view the link, it tells them the day / time in their own time zone.

[Ferrin]

Your missing the point entirely Andraax, either that or your taking a counter position for a reason I cannot fathom. Yes, if that is your preferred method of scheduling a game while your are in planning mode and not in direct contact via messenger or TS in real time would be a great way to do it. But you do talk to people in real time, you make plans on the fly with people and if your telling me, it is quicker to log into to that website enter the info than to look at the FG widget on the website or application that you more than likely have open then you sir are just being difficult.

[viresanimi]

The world revolves around Greenwich Mean Time. I really don't see any reason why FG should try to "reinvent the wheel". It is a universal understood concept, so it works across borders and continents. Leave it be I say.


Vires Animi

[Andraax]

Clicking a link in an email that I'm reading is *way* faster than finding the FG icon on my desktop and waiting for it to fire up. I understand what you're saying, but I don't schedule my games during game sessions, so your solution is way more work for me (and I just wouldn't use it).

Besides, if you're already in a game session, why can't you just say "next week this time" and everyone looks at their watch or the clock on the wall to note the time?

[damned]

The world revolves around Greenwich Mean Time. I really don't see any reason why FG should try to "reinvent the wheel". It is a universal understood concept, so it works across borders and continents. Leave it be I say.


Vires Animi

Dont we use UTC now?
:)

Time IS complicated.

[Andraax]

The world revolves around Greenwich Mean Time.

Anglo centric. :-)

[viresanimi]

Isn't "UTC" something 'murican's invented because they couldn't stand the English before WW2? Anyhooo... who are you calling "Anglo centric"? It would be more correct to call the Britts "Scandinavian Centric". I should know. My fierce viking ancestors brought law and order to the land.

Joking aside, it actually took me ages to figure out that UTC is the same as GMT. And I still really don't understand why the same thing needs two names. I would actually love it, if someone could tell me why this is. But if the answer is: "People are too uneducated to understand what GMT stands for" I am loosing faith in humanity's ability to survive.

@damned:

Yes. Time is complicated. I once saw a British comedian tackle the idea of understand quantum physics from a layman's point of view. I never forgot this quote: "So. I have now discovered that Time does not exist. While I learned that I finally received a reply from Mr. Hawking. He would meet me, but not until Tuesday."

Love that.



Vires Animi

[viresanimi]

While I am at it: If Fantasy Grounds should have any sort of time showing device at all, it should show time in "Turns" and "Rounds".

Nothing else would fit really!


Vires Animi

[dulux-oz]

And I still really don't understand why the same thing needs two names. I would actually love it, if someone could tell me why this is. But if the answer is: "People are too uneducated to understand what GMT stands for" I am loosing faith in humanity's ability to survive.

It's actually French, but nobody seems to remember that these days (don't ask me to spell/say it in French, I can't). It was a sop to the French to get them to accept Greenwich as "Time point zero": use Greenwich but call it the French name. The Americans' brought into it because they didn't like the English much either, so, since about 1972, the "official" time of the world is measured in UTC.

The same idea applies to calling things B.C.E and C.E.: B.C. and A.D. - the non-Christian world and people didn't like that we measured things "Before Christ" and "After Christ" (Anno domini(sp?)), so its now "Before the Common Era" and "Common Era".

Calculating time is easy: just work out the difference between two places via their UTC coordinates (eg UTC+10, UTC-5 = 15 hours difference), so NY,NY is 15 hours behind SYD, Oz - or SYD, Oz is 15 hours in front of NY,NY if you prefer.

If the calculation results in a number bigger then 24 simply take 24 away from the total - that's it.

Cheers (and check out my sig: I keep my UTC coordinate listed, as do a lot of other FG users)

[Trenloe]

GMT stands for Game Master Time! Which is any time, and anywhere - as long as you're using Fantasy Grounds, of course. :)

[dulux-oz]

GMT stands for Game Master Time! Which is any time, and anywhere - as long as you're using Fantasy Grounds, of course. :)

Bravo!

[Andraax]

"For most purposes, UTC is considered interchangeable with GMT, but GMT is no longer precisely defined by the scientific community." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time


Calculating time is easy: just work out the difference between two places via their UTC coordinates (eg UTC+10, UTC-5 = 15 hours difference), so NY,NY is 15 hours behind SYD, Oz - or SYD, Oz is 15 hours in front of NY,NY if you prefer.

And thus the problem with using UTC. NYC,NY is UTC-5 in the winter, but UTC-4 in the summer. So, currently, there is a 14 hour difference rather than a 15 hour difference. And most people do not know what their current "UTC offset" is - indeed, the vast majority of people couldn't tell you what UTC even is...

[dulux-oz]

And most people do not know what their current "UTC offset" is - indeed, the vast majority of people couldn't tell you what UTC even is...

I'm not responsible for the ignorance of others - especially when that ignorance is easily resolved in this modern day and age with tools such as the Internet, etc.

I am especially not responsible for other people's stupidity - to not use whatever tools are available to cure one's ignorance simply confirms one's stupidity.

Ignorance can be forgiven, because it can be cured - stupidity, on the other hand...

Of course, no-one here is stupid because we all use FG to enjoy a hobby that requires a certain level of... "non-stupidity".


And thus the problem with using UTC.

Which is precisely the same problem we would have no matter which "time system" we used - if people don't know how to use a tool or refuse to use it (because of stupidity, vested interest, or just plain laziness), especially when that tool has been recognised by the peoples of the world, then the fault must lie with the individual, not the tool.

An interesting discussion, no? But one, I think, which has run its course. :)

Cheers

[Ferrin]

*Rolls Diplomacy Check



Ok, this discussion really got away from what I intended it to be. I am sure everyone is familiar with UTC, and the various tools around the internet. I never really intended to open those issues up for debate. My idea was a simple little addition to the forum and software. A clock that everyone reads as the same time, thats it. Not a reinvention of the wheel here. A clock widget came as a free option on my website that I recently bought, so it would probably be little effort to add in. My original post I admit was worded poorly and directed the discussion down a pointless path. Incidentally as I am typing this, my calender voted on and scheduled game was supposed to begin 3 mins ago. So far I am the only one to show up. Times gotta be right because the website auto converted to my time right? Yet not even the GM is here. Ya see even though all those calculations and internet tools are their to help people deal with these issues, its not simple enough. A clock, just a simple clock everyone can read that is available to anyone who wants to glance at it. And by all means set the clock to GMT 0, that would make the most sense to me at least.

All I wanted was to put that idea out there, now it is. Discussion over for me. There is literally nothing else I could add to my case without insulting someone.