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roidesgobs
February 2nd, 2015, 08:00
Hi guys,

I played yesterday with 5 players and we all got a problem on a unconscious target.

A bard cast a sleep on a group of 4 kobolds , they all fall asleep and then get Unconscious during 10 RND.

Once they are unconscious if players make ranged attack on them with weapon or ranged magic attack , they automaticly get DISADVANTAGE instead of advantage on attack roll.
It happened only on ranged attack. if a player make Melee attack on the same unconscious target , the software make it correctly and give ADVANTAGE on attack roll.

I already check for proficiencies on weapon or armor , but everythings looks correct , so if you have any idea about what make this mistake ; let me know .

Thx , sorry for my bad english.

El Condoro
February 2nd, 2015, 13:02
It sounds like the 'Prone' condition was being applied (advantage on attacks if adjacent, otherwise disadvantage).
The 'Unconscious' condition gives advantage on all attack rolls, though.

roidesgobs
February 2nd, 2015, 14:19
i'll check today thx for your answer i let you know if i can change something.

Zacchaeus
February 2nd, 2015, 16:08
Right, are you sitting comfortably :)

If a creature is knocked unconscious then it is also prone (see page 292 PHB).

Any attack roll against a prone creature made from further away than 5' has disadvantage. Thus one would expect a ranged attack to fall into this category.

Any attack against an unconscious character has Advantage.

So, a ranged attack against an unconscious character will have both advantage and disadvantage. These cancel each other out and so a ranged attack will have neither have advantage nor disadvantage.
A melee attack will have advantage if the target is unconscious and also if it is prone. Since you can't have more than one advantage only one is given.

Having tested this all out FG handles ranged attacks against unconscious targets correctly i.e. giving both advantage and disadvantage and so cancelling each out.

So, yes, looks like the incorrect effect was applied to the Kobolds.

roidesgobs
February 2nd, 2015, 17:58
thx really much guys

El Condoro
February 2nd, 2015, 19:56
So, a ranged attack against an unconscious character will have both advantage and disadvantage. These cancel each other out and so a ranged attack will have neither have advantage nor disadvantage.
A melee attack will have advantage if the target is unconscious and also if it is prone. Since you can't have more than one advantage only one is given.

A prone creature is not necessarily unconscious, though. In any case only one of those conditions applies as described by whatever causes the condition. In this case, it's Sleep, so the target is unconscious.

I think the reasoning is that a (conscious) prone creature can still move but an unconscious one can't, hence only one applies.

Zacchaeus
February 2nd, 2015, 21:11
A prone creature is not necessarily unconscious, though. In any case only one of those conditions applies as described by whatever causes the condition. In this case, it's Sleep, so the target is unconscious.

I think the reasoning is that a (conscious) prone creature can still move but an unconscious one can't, hence only one applies.

I don't disagree that a prone creature will also be unconscious and I don't think that is what I said. In the case of the creature being affected by a sleep spell it will be knocked unconscious. Part of the description of unconscious is that a creature will be prone. Hence both conditions will apply to that creature (and indeed it will also be incapacitated). There is nothing anywhere which says that a creature cannot be affected by multiple conditions. I maintain therefore that a ranged attack against a prone, unconscious creature will have both advantage and disadvantage.

Em, also apologies in advance if what you were saying isn't what I've picked up on :)

El Condoro
February 3rd, 2015, 08:37
It's an interesting question and so I posed it on the D&D Rules forum here. (http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4183356)

My ruling would be that unconscious trumps prone and, because an unconscious target is immobile, all attacks are made with advantage against a Sleep-affected target. I'm interested to hear what comes out of this.

Zacchaeus
February 3rd, 2015, 12:11
It's an interesting question and so I posed it on the D&D Rules forum here. (http://community.wizards.com/forum/rules-questions/threads/4183356)

My ruling would be that unconscious trumps prone and, because an unconscious target is immobile, all attacks are made with advantage against a Sleep-affected target. I'm interested to hear what comes out of this.

I think you are basing your argument on a false premise; that only one condition can apply, or at least one condition has priority over another. Appendix A of the PHB clearly envisages situations where a creature will have more than one condition on it, even multiple instances of the same condition. Also it isn't the fact that the target is immobile which determines the advantage its the fact that they are unconscious. Furthermore, if the creature falls prone then it must also have that condition too. Altogether it has 3 conditions placed upon it from the one spell.

All of those conditions therefore need to be considered when the attack roll is made.

El Condoro
February 3rd, 2015, 13:30
Yes, I think you're right. Going from unconscious/immobile (advantage for ranged attacks) to prone (disadvantage) is two steps. With them cancelling each other out it is a one-step change, which makes more sense. Definitely more than one condition can apply, but I was (erroneously) using the immobile aspect as the determinant. Glad to sort that out.