FG touch screen functionality?

[shoggothic]

I'm a new user of FG, though I've used a competitor VTT product for a while and its GUI and in-game features don't come close to FG, but I originally purchased the competitor because the features are mostly useable on the 60" touch screen table I have for local, at home games. I would like to use FG for my local tabletop experience, but I am afraid that the 'right-click' features and 'hover over' mouse events will not be native to multi-touch and so will make using a touch screen problematic at best or pointless at worst. I've read through the forums here and couldn't really find anyone in my situation with a large touch surface running local games who can relate to these issues through actual experience. Can anyone, especially the developers, chime in and tell me if it is feasible to run FG with a touch surface, or should I just mount the TV on the wall and have my players use some Bluetooth wireless mice instead? Thanks in advance for your help.

[Trenloe]

How much functionality you can use may depend on the ruleset you're using and what you're trying to do. What ruleset/s are you wanting to use? Will you use just map functionality or character sheet functionality as well on the 60" touchscreen? Map functionality (moving tokens, etc.) will mostly work on a touchscreen, but if you want to do complex operations (multi-select targets, cast a fireball, etc.) you might struggle. But, most people who use a large screen for their gaming area usually don't include the charactersheet functionality as this would take up too much screen space for all of the players.

[ddavison]

Unfortunately, there are quite a few features that rely upon the hover, right-click, mousewheel, Ctrl+click, Alt+Click, etc. and that really makes a full touch-screen interface less than ideal. We have yet to replace these with appropriate touch gestures. My recommendation would be to pass around a wireless mouse and mini keyboard or have the GM initiate all the actions at the direction of the players.

[shoggothic]

We have yet to replace these with appropriate touch gestures. Is native touch support planned for down the road?

Also, since my players keep their own actions pretty analog (i.e., rolling their won dice, keeping their own item cards & character sheets), I would only be using FG from a GM perspective for map use, combat/initiative tracking, effects/templates, etc. In this case, the players would only want to move their character tokens with touch, drop templates, and maybe designate targets or ranges. Are these functions easily accomplished using touch, or are they also reliant on the right-click, Ctrl+click, etc.? Thanks again for your help thus far guys.

[Trenloe]

Moving you can do very easily with a touch screen (I've just tried it on my laptop). Full targeting requires the CTRL key to be held. Right-click menus appear by pressing and holding for about 1 second and then releasing - the right-click menu linked to where you pressed will be displayed, then you can navigate this with further screen touches.

You can use the pointer tool to draw a line that will show the distance if there is a grid on the map.

[ddavison]

There is also a targeting option on the image toolbar. I forget about it since I normally play on my laptop and use the CTRL+Click targeting. It takes an additional action but it can be done with touch-screen only. Hover won't work, but you can set your preferences to show the level of detail without hover. Basically, you click the map toolbar icon to set the Target Mode active, click on the source of the targeting and then click-drag a box around the targets you want. It will display the distance to each target selected.

The nice thing is that you can test this out fully with the demo and some sample NPC entries, PC entries and a sample map.

[Trenloe]

There is also a targeting option on the image toolbar. I forget about it since I normally play on my laptop and use the CTRL+Click targeting. It takes an additional action but it can be done with touch-screen only.
When I just tried this that targeting option was the same as click (select start of target) but for multi selections, I couldn't get it to select the target without pressing CTRL as well. Is there a way to do it without pressing CTRL?

[ddavison]

When I just tried this that targeting option was the same as click (select start of target) but for multi selections, I couldn't get it to select the target without pressing CTRL as well. Is there a way to do it without pressing CTRL?

You use the multi-selection option but just drag your box around a single target. It would be nice if it allowed a simple single-click in this instance on the target.


Click on target mode icon
Click on source token
Drag a box around a single target token

[Trenloe]

You use the multi-selection option but just drag your box around a single target. It would be nice if it allowed a simple single-click in this instance on the target.


Click on target mode icon
Click on source token
Drag a box around a single target token

Ah, I was missing the 2 step process, thanks. That works really well with a touchscreen actually.

So, shoggothic - it looks like most of what you want to use the touchscreen for can be done without the need for a keyboard/mouse. :)

[shoggothic]

So, shoggothic - it looks like most of what you want to use the touchscreen for can be done without the need for a keyboard/mouse. :)

Are there any other functions that you guys as end users know I'm forgetting about, regarding multi-touch interface, if players are planning on doing all their own stuff analog (sheets, dice, handouts), but want to have tactical control over their token on screen? Do many users play local games using FG that you know of? If so, are wireless mice/keyboards the way to go for most? I'm interested in how players 'pass' control to one another without accidentally moving each others tokens or taking each others actions if they are all seated around the same table or facing the same TV. You guys are awesome for jumping on my Q&A so quickly btw.

[Trenloe]

I'm interested in how players 'pass' control to one another without accidentally moving each others tokens or taking each others actions if they are all seated around the same table or facing the same TV.
The only control on who can move what is that the players can't move unfriendly or neutral NPC tokens. The GM can also lock the PC tokens so that the GM has to approve the movement before the token actually moves: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Tokens#Movement

Otherwise, it would be just like sitting around a table with minis, but with more control over what can be moved - the players can move any of the PC minis, or tokens not tied to unfriendly/neutral NPCs, but nothing else.

I can't think of anything that is missing on a touchscreen to do what you mention - i.e. tactical control of player tokens on the screen. And the GM would always have control - being able to rearrange any of the token, terrain, fog-of-war mask, etc.. Assuming the GM would be running the touchscreen as a second monitor to their GM computer (running a player instance on the same computer) then the GM will also have control over what the players see - opening/closing maps, showing the combat tracker, etc..

[shoggothic]

Awesome guys, that's what I wanted to hear! I'll keep the touch screen and we'll run with it. I'd like to keep you guys updated as we progress and post some pics of the touch screen table using FG, if that's cool?

[Trenloe]

I'd like to keep you guys updated as we progress and post some pics of the touch screen table using FG, if that's cool?
That would be great to see. :-)

[Dakadin]

Awesome guys, that's what I wanted to hear! I'll keep the touch screen and we'll run with it. I'd like to keep you guys updated as we progress and post some pics of the touch screen table using FG, if that's cool?

I would definitely like to see that.

[Talen]

I'd be interested in hearing more details in the tabletop you are using.

[Mirloc]

Do many users play local games using FG that you know of? If so, are wireless mice/keyboards the way to go for most? I'm interested in how players 'pass' control to one another without accidentally moving each others tokens or taking each others actions if they are all seated around the same table or facing the same TV.


Sorry for chiming in late, but I'll speak to this subject. I've used FG quite a bit for in-person gaming. We did not have a large touchscreen, and used the large display (a projector mounted from the ceiling) that kicked out the output from a small PC logged in as the only player. In this case, I used one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Rii-Portable-Wireless-Touchpad-Keyboard/dp/B00KD8A53G as the pass-around device. It took the players about 10 minutes to acclimate to it, and they loved it.

Other times, I'd set a monitor back to back with my laptop and display the map for the "player" only, with me moving the pieces for the players. These turned out to be the best for gaming with people who didn't normally game with me (I was DMing the Living Forgotten Realms, and didn't want to lug piles of paper and mini-figs to the once-a-month game), the players quite enjoyed the display system.

In both cases the players used their own dice, char sheets, and carried their own books.

[shoggothic]

In both cases the players used their own dice, char sheets, and carried their own books.

That's how my groups would run with it as well, especially since it sounds like local gaming with analog books, paper, dice, etc. makes using the equivalent digital features in FG redundant and difficult if using a touch screen. However, moving tokens and templates and designating targets IS possible on a touch screen from the Player side, so at least they will have some control over their in-game characters. Now the question is, is having a touch screen only to let the Player side move things around and draw lines too overkill? Does anyone else use FG at a game table as opposed to remotely or completely online?

[OneSidedDie]

I have used FG in person on many occasions. We have one player in a few cities over so we play online normally but when he is in town I break out the laptop and TV. I have a PC connected to the TV running a player client while I GM from my laptop facing them. They sit on the couch with a wireless keyboard and mouse. Sometimes they pass it around and others they designate one player to do all the movement for them. I prefer these games to online only. I get the benefit of FGs story and map features and my players get to see me do the bad guy voices AND faces. :pirate:

No touchscreen though. Merely my thumbs up on FGs usability in person.

[Mirloc]

Now the question is, is having a touch screen only to let the Player side move things around and draw lines too overkill?

Hey, if you have it - use it. That's just my opinion of course, but I was VERY close to making a touchscreen gaming table a couple years back so take that advice with a salt block...

I'm of the firm belief that there's no "One Right Way" for gaming. Some people are rabidly against electronics at a gaming table. I see it as fewer dead trees, and the technology to create the ultimate gaming table (to me anyhow) is available, it's just that no one is actively making them, though I suppose the market for $1,000 gaming tables may be a bit narrow....

[kleinksw]

Does anyone have any updates on how the touch screen FG functionality is working for them?

My group uses FG for in-person gaming, with a computer and 2 monitors each, and it works well. The only downside--aside from the tactile experience of real dice, pen, papers, and minis--is that the screens get in the way of face-to-face gaming. On the plus side, we don't have to see each other's ugly mugs! There are many other pluses, of course, which is why we've elected to go this route.

[shoggothic]

Does anyone have any updates on how the touch screen FG functionality is working for them?

Sorry, I've been out of action for a few, due to real life, you know, that lame stuff...Anyhow, the way I've got my touch table set up is a Vizio M Series 60" laying on its back (I chose Vizio because it has built in metal supports inside the shell that prevents the edges from 'bowing' and the resultant image bloom and parallax). A 60" touch overlay lies on top of the TV, with the whole set-up resting in a 30" high custom table- standard height for chairs.

An advantage of the touch screen table set up is that the players sit around all four edges of the table and are looking at each other or down at the table to move their token(s) or templates, so blocking one another line of sight is a non-issue. I am hooked in wireless to the table with my tablet and usually walk around the table and behind the players, as I describe the scene, to keep tension up.

We don't have any issues with functionality as far as left or right clicking goes. Right-click is simulated by simply holding a touch event on the screen for more than a second, bringing up right-click menus. Likewise, reducing or moving a window out of the way is easy, though some of the buttons are small and may take an extra touch to close or open. Not having native window rotation (like on Smart Devices) is annoying, but we work with it.

A caveat though, my players are using dead tree and dice, and only use the touch screen functions in combination with FG for maneuvering tokens through combat, initiative tracking and dropping templates and conditions. So full functionality, like updating characters, creating items/feats/creatures, or general campaign building hasn't really been tested by us, as we don't make use of those FG options. But replacing mice with fingers hasn't yet created any barriers for our game using FG on a touch screen.

[Nylanfs]

Post pictures! ... And table build plans ... and get us discounts on the tv and touch overlay!

[LordEntrails]

I would love to see pictures and a bill of materials or list of components.

[damned]

Sorry, I've been out of action for a few, due to real life, you know, that lame stuff...Anyhow, the way I've got my touch table set up is a Vizio M Series 60" laying on its back (I chose Vizio because it has built in metal supports inside the shell that prevents the edges from 'bowing' and the resultant image bloom and parallax). A 60" touch overlay lies on top of the TV, with the whole set-up resting in a 30" high custom table- standard height for chairs.

An advantage of the touch screen table set up is that the players sit around all four edges of the table and are looking at each other or down at the table to move their token(s) or templates, so blocking one another line of sight is a non-issue. I am hooked in wireless to the table with my tablet and usually walk around the table and behind the players, as I describe the scene, to keep tension up.

We don't have any issues with functionality as far as left or right clicking goes. Right-click is simulated by simply holding a touch event on the screen for more than a second, bringing up right-click menus. Likewise, reducing or moving a window out of the way is easy, though some of the buttons are small and may take an extra touch to close or open. Not having native window rotation (like on Smart Devices) is annoying, but we work with it.

A caveat though, my players are using dead tree and dice, and only use the touch screen functions in combination with FG for maneuvering tokens through combat, initiative tracking and dropping templates and conditions. So full functionality, like updating characters, creating items/feats/creatures, or general campaign building hasn't really been tested by us, as we don't make use of those FG options. But replacing mice with fingers hasn't yet created any barriers for our game using FG on a touch screen.

Sounds awesome. Slowly the players will start using FG too... thats my bet.

[bullywug]

We've been using FG for a few sessions now on a Lenovo Horizon 27" tabletop PC. It's a multitouch (10 finger) touchscreen. Most everything works well but I have two questions:
1) I asked this in another forum but it may be more appropriate here. Is it possible to edit a theme to make certain elements easier to hit with a finger? Specifically the scroll bars and the attack and damage buttons are hard to hit.
2) We have a problem with the multi-touch pinch and zoom to zoom in on the map. It seems to work inconsistently which makes me think I'm missing something. Any suggestions?

[Moon Wizard]

1) You can make edits using extensions to modify the sizes of elements. You may need to update your extension when the underlying ruleset frameworks are updated. The main consideration would be that all of the sheets are laid out given the existing control sizes, so you may run into some minor overlap issues as you make things bigger.

2) Fantasy Grounds triggers the pinch/expand multi-touch gesture as passed to our program by Windows. I haven't heard of any issues from others on this particular gesture, but I don't think it's widely used with touch either. Currently, the client saves off the current zoom level, and adjusts the zoom level by the difference in the finger distance from initial finger position. There are no special conditions coded, so it should work the same each time. The image control also supports the panning gesture which is two fingers moved together. I wonder if these are getting confused by Windows before being passed to our app? Or perhaps it has something to do with very zoomed in or very zoomed out? Any more information on the details of when it doesn't work are appreciated.

Regards,
JPG

[damned]

Also are you using layers extension and sometimes the pinch and zoom is hitting tokens/objects/images?

[bullywug]

Also are you using layers extension and sometimes the pinch and zoom is hitting tokens/objects/images?

No, I've not had that problem. Other than the very high learning curve the software works well with a touch screen. It's not perfect, for example players tend to accidentally grab their character sheets when they mean to drag dice out from one of the stats but that's a minor issue.

Thanks everyone for your help.

[dgnr8duck]

Personally, I would appreciate the ability to zoom game books and their reference cards. By this, I mean using the pinch motion to zoom in and out on the text and images. As it is now you can move the window its in but no zoom exists. There is definitely room for other improvement as well, but my group is primarily gen-xers and their eye sight(and mine) isn't what it used to be. I have spent hundreds of dollars on books that I can't read on my Lenovo Thinkpad Yoga 11e. We already couldn't use FG on a tablet unless it was a windows tablet. The Yoga is from that class of devices I refer to as tabtops. Never heard anyone else use this but it is a fair guess someone some where has.

[ddavison]

You can add this to the Feature Request list.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/featurerequests

I also wanted to suggest you take a look at the built-in Windows Magnifier. It can magnify the entire screen, but I think it works best in Lens mode.

Windows key + (Plus key) to turn it on
Windows key + Esc to turn it off
Windows key + ctrl + M to access the settings. I would try switching to Lens mode and then test it out.


Here is what it looks like over top of Fantasy Grounds.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62411&d=1729602067

62411

[Moon Wizard]

There's also a built-in UI scaling feature in the product by default. Just type /scaleui 150 or /scaleui 200 to scale the UI by that percentage. If you want to swap between these, you can type into chat, and drag to hot keys before pressing Enter.

You can also hide the Story Book index by clicking the arrow next to the index to make the reading area larger.

Regards,
JPG

[damned]

You can also hide the Story Book index by clicking the arrow next to the index to make the reading area larger.

Ooooer - I didnt know that!

[dgnr8duck]

And that's why when i feel something is important enough, like reading books I paid for, I should post in forums. That was several rock solid suggestions. Now I have to copy and make them part of my desktop wallpaper so I never forget.

[Morenu]

I really can't explain how great of a community the FGU forum is both on the developer side and the user side.