PFS 4-16: The Fabric of Reality - Sat. 10 JAN 7PM GMT (11AM PST) [Archive]

HoloGnome

December 31st, 2014, 04:18

I have decided to run my first PFS scenario!

PFS 4-16: The Fabric of Reality
A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 5th- to 9th-level characters (Tier 5–9; Subtiers 5–6 and 8–9).

For the past year, the Pathfinder Society has used the isolated demiplane contained in the Hao Jin Tapestry as a private adventuring realm and, since discovering a backdoor out of the demiplane, as a shortcut from the tapestry's location to a hidden corner of Varisia. But the tapestry wasn't designed for this purpose, and travel from Absalom to Varisia could be more efficient. Now a team of Pathfinders must discover how the infamous sorcerer known as the Ruby Phoenix created her private demiplane and enter the heart of the tapestry and alter the very nature of the magical realm.

Written by Tom Phillips

Calendar Link: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/calendar/index.xcp?id=1319

Please apply on the calendar and leave a note in the thread.

Post or send me your latest:
xml
chronicle
tracking info
PFS ID
Faction

...and indicate whether you have played or GM'd the scenario before. All players welcome. If there are enough to run it twice, great. I think I will probably be running the scenario at sub-tier 5-6. It is an interesting and novel one, as you can see from the description!

The time is provisional, but will hopefully work. If there's a better time that works for everyone, I'm open to changing it. I have added Friday & Sunday at the same time. If you're interested, sign up and vote for times that work.

NOTE: I have a full license (not Ultimate), which means that you must own a copy of Fantasy Grounds in order to play.

If any GM's want to sign up, that would be very helpful on my first run and I am very open to real-time gaming input. Thanks!

ps. While this is my first PFS scenario as a GM, I have done a fair amount of 3.5 GMing and some PFS playing (2 characters so far). I expect this game to be a new experience.

xazil

December 31st, 2014, 04:36

Good to see you jumping in Holognome. :)

Love to play, if a session opens up at the right time I'll be there (Unfortuantly this one currently isn't).

HoloGnome

December 31st, 2014, 04:43

OK - well...the time is flexible. I'm open to figuring out a compatible time. I have added the surrounding Friday and Sunday as alternate times.

Farnaby

December 31st, 2014, 04:46

Time is great, I hope enough join.

Sorry, just checked, my highest character is Lvl 4.
I'll play a pregen though for fun.

Trueshots

December 31st, 2014, 05:12

I'm in, I'll play Lia my backing stabbing ninja. With Lia and Julius Flashbolt around, they won't have a clue what hit them!!!

Lord Kavos

December 31st, 2014, 05:47

Yep im in, hoping to play Julius (my halfling arcane trickster) as he has played several of the tapestry adventures already...

HoloGnome

December 31st, 2014, 06:14

I guess we'll have to see how the APL works out for the sub-tier choice. It looks like with 5 players, the APL will be in the low 6's, or with 6 players, it will be mid-tier with the extra +1 for 6 or more, so you could choose up or down. However, I have already converted a lot of the scenario and playing up might not be a good idea. It really depends.

Trenloe

December 31st, 2014, 07:10

... with the extra +1 for 6 or more, so you could choose up or down.
The +1 for 6/7 PCs hasn't been valid since August 2013 and is no longer applicable for any season scenarios. Follow the subtier guidelines as detailed on page 32 of the PFS guide.

xazil

December 31st, 2014, 07:25

The +1 for 6/7 PCs hasn't been valid since August 2013 and is no longer applicable for any season scenarios. Follow the subtier guidelines as detailed on page 32 of the PFS guide.
Ah, so it was a season 4 ruling. I had wondered as I heard people mention it, but I've only ever read the S5 and S6 books. Same with the choice part, as there is almost never a choice in what you are playing once you have your party assembled according to the S6 book.

HoloGnome

December 31st, 2014, 07:27

Trenloe - Good to know - thanks!

HoloGnome

December 31st, 2014, 07:34

This is a season 4 scenario, so the adventure is designed for 6 players and can scale down to 4. If the APL is mid-tier with a party of 4, we will do the lower tier without adjustment. If there are 5-7 players and mid-tier APL, we will do the higher tier with the 4-character adjustment.

Victor

December 31st, 2014, 10:08

I'll play if the times work out.

Skellan

December 31st, 2014, 11:49

Fantastic! and a scenario I haven't played too. Count me in, I will send over character details shortly

HoloGnome

December 31st, 2014, 15:30

Looks like a great mix! Farnaby - do you have a 5th level? Or is Meredith going to be 5th after Quest for Perfection III on the 2nd? I will put up some more times to try to help find something compatible.

Skellan

December 31st, 2014, 15:33

what level is your highest character Farnaby? We might be able to get you to 5th in time for this session?

HoloGnome

December 31st, 2014, 16:03

I added some 6PM PST times on the same days for the calendar vote.

Here's how it looks with the current 6 players:
Farnaby - 5th? (APL 6): 5-6 subtier
Farnaby - 6th (APL 6.5): Either subtier (upper w/ 4-player scaling) - your choice
Farnaby - 7th (pregen) (APL 7): 8-9 subtier w/ 4-player scaling

If more register, then there may be other options on tier and times.

darrenan

December 31st, 2014, 19:45

Going to throw my name into the mix as well, although I'll be first alternate.

kwarner1986

January 1st, 2015, 05:03

I'll bring Rebecca to Quest for Perfection Part 3. That will get her to Level 5. Then I should be ready to for this one. Assuming things don't go like her last mission.

That is of course if they're is space.

HoloGnome

January 1st, 2015, 05:54

darrenan/kwarner - sounds good. yeah - tell Rebecca to watch out for those earth elementals, bud. ;) kw - please vote for any times that work. It would be nice to run 6-player parties.

Maybe there will be enough people to run it twice, so I have accepted everyone for now.

The Friday @ 6PM PST (darrenan, xazil, victor + 1-3) and Saturday/Sunday at 11AM PST (skellan, trueshots, farnaby + 1-3) show promise for 2 sessions to give everyone a chance, or could run one of them as is or +2 people. Friday at 11AM PST is obviously no good - deleted.

Also, Lord Kavos still needs to vote. Happy New Year! :)

Lord Kavos

January 1st, 2015, 13:14

Voted...

Here are my PC files buddy...

HoloGnome

January 1st, 2015, 14:48

Great - Thanks LK.

Things are shaping up. I removed the weekend 6PM times - not popular.

To pick up xazil, the Friday the 9th time at 6PM PST / 2AM GMT (Sat) would have/need the following:
Session 1: Sam (barb 5), darrenan (monk/sorc 4/1), xazil (sorc/pfa 6), Victor (magus 5), +1 TBD Cleric (poss. 7th level pre-gen - Kyra) -> APL 6 / sub-tier 5-6

Saturday the 10th at 11AM PST / 7PM GMT for the rest:
Session 2: Skellan (fighter 7), Trueshots (ninja 7), Lord Kavos (sorc/ninja/arcane trickster 8), kwarner1986 (cleric 5), Farnaby (ninja 4/5) -> APL 6 (6.4, or slightly lower if Meredith still at 4) / sub-tier 5-6

If you know someone who would like to play Kyra, the 7th-level cleric pre-gen on Friday/Session 1, please invite them. Also, that will still leave room for 1 more in each party on each of the above days (hoping to stay in sub-tier 5-6). Other changes still possible, depending on where kwarner ends up.

HoloGnome

January 1st, 2015, 21:24

Farnaby - xazil has clued me into some text at the bottom of page 32 in the Guide:

"If a PC’s level does not fall within the level range of a scenario’s tier, that character cannot legally play in that scenario."

So, Meredith needs to make it to 5th, or you can use a pre-gen, which would have to be 7th, since they are only available at levels 1, 4 & 7. Might have to do some subtier dancing. :D

Trueshots

January 2nd, 2015, 02:18

I'm confused when am I playing? It says 11am sat? Is that set in stone and is the GMT?

Can you change calendar to reflect the changes? Tks

HoloGnome

January 2nd, 2015, 03:41

The times on the calendar should show in your local timezone and I will fix the times above - thx. It's not completely final yet, but pretty close - looks like Saturday the 10th at 11AMPST, 2PM EST, or 7PMGMT. (The signup shows you as East Coast.) Hope that helps TS. I will probably dump the Sunday time soon - hope to pick up at least 1 more person.

Farnaby

January 2nd, 2015, 07:15

Good news, I managed to get Meredith in an extra game this sunday so I will be level 5 for this game.

HoloGnome

January 2nd, 2015, 07:48

I see - awesome, awesome. Good job. So, the party of 5 on Saturday Jan 10 should be good to go (skellan, trueshots, lord kavos, kwarner, farnaby) - APL 6 (6.4) with 5 players for the 5-6 sub-tier (and even +1 5th or 6th level PC if someone else wants to play and is only available that day).

I'm hoping there will be at least 1 more person to play Kyra/7th pregen in the other party on Friday the 9th (or their own higher-level 7-9 divine type).

Lord Kavos

January 2nd, 2015, 08:02

I can play Kayliss (my dominatrix cleric of Calistria) instead of Julius if we need a cleric type.

Was only looking to play Julius because he has played a few of the tapestry adventures so far...

Forgot we already have a cleric..

HoloGnome

January 2nd, 2015, 12:52

LK - Julius is good. The cleric (pregen, etc.) would be for the other group on Friday. They are lower on the APL curve and can make use of 1 or 2 higher level PCs.

darrenan

January 5th, 2015, 02:18

Can you post the updated groups? If it's four players, out of tier, playing up again, I'll probably just bail. I've had enough beating my head against a brick wall personally.

xazil

January 5th, 2015, 02:27

From my look at it, the earlier game is 4 people with an APL in the 5s and solidly lower tier. Its the later group with 5 that looks to be sitting on the cusp of the higher.

HoloGnome

January 5th, 2015, 08:48

I definitely agree with Darrenan.

Based on my earlier assessment of the "Way of the Kirin" (Season 4), challenges presented by "Fabric of Reality" (also Season 4), fun for all concerned, consideration for game time budget (people playing immediately after this game - absolutely must stay on time), the fact that Meredith is still stuck at Level 4 based on the Kirin bail and beneath the minimum required tier (5) and therefore ineligible (and must play a Lvl 7 pre-gen - party needs a cleric), and the fact that I have an unexpected personal commitment mid-week that may extend through Friday, I am going to run a 6-person party on Saturday and will run the module again at a later time for xazil, Victor, kwarner + 2-3 others (lower tier) at a time that works for all concerned (also don't feel comfortable running this one as a 4-person scenario - not a good idea, IMO, but always depends on party composition to a degree). I will keep the scenario on the calendar and we can figure out a new time that works - hopefully for the following week.

So, the final party for Saturday at 7PM GMT/11AM PST is:
Lord Kavos: arcane trickster 8
Skellan: fighter 7
TrueShots: ninja 7
Farnaby: cleric 7 pre-gen (no eligible character) - or your choice, but Cleric pre-gen is probably best, given party composition.
Sam Guerra: barbarian 5
Darrenan: monk/sorc 5

APL (6.5): 6 or 7 / sub-tier 5-6 (normal / easy) or 8-9 (4-person scaling / more challenging) - your choice. Per the PFS rules, it looks like you can play the scenario as standard at 5-6 (probably best choice - should be an easier, quicker, fun game and good for me as a 1st-time PFS GM) or at the 8-9 tier with 4-player scaling for a party of 6. Probably also do-able, but expect a greater challenge and certainly riskier for the 5th levels.

Regarding APL 6.5:

In order to determine which subtier a mixed-level group of PCs must play in, calculate the group’s average party level (APL). Divide the total number of character levels by the number of characters in the party. You should always round to the nearest whole number. If you are exactly at 0.5, let the group decide which subtier they wish to play.

I hope this works for everyone (and is correct) and - Victor, xazil & kwarner - please forgive me. I promise (and would really like) to run it for you as soon as we find a new time.

Farnaby

January 5th, 2015, 12:19

No problem, I'll look over the healing bots :) and choose one.
Unless you say cleric is ultimately the best.

Lord Kavos

January 5th, 2015, 13:17

im happy to play either tier. Will leave the ball in your court all, last time i suggested up it didnt go so good for us...

HoloGnome

January 5th, 2015, 18:09

Farnaby - I think there are 4 options - Cleric, Druid, Shaman, Warpriest - different advantages for each. Feel free to pick.

Very rough pregen comparison:
*Cleric: skilled/best channeler, including channeling around enemies + buffs -> might be the best party balancer
*Shaman: probably the toughest (hp w/ high AC) & hexes + healing -> might be the easiest for you to play
Druid: wild shape, natural spell, animal companion + healing -> insight into Rashmi's future
Warpriest: highest AC, melee/dps + healing -> because Coburn is your friend

vs. barbarian, armor master (fighter), monk/sorc, ninja, arcane trickster (sorc/ninja) - lots of melee horsepower among the other characters.

LK: I will also leave it up to the party My GM preference given all the variables would be to play down, and it would be fun to see you have time to take on the optional encounter. Also, it's OK to bring a Level 5-7 - plenty of APL on the low side if you want a bigger challenge. (I thought you said you didn't have one...but just double-checking.)

HoloGnome

January 5th, 2015, 18:18

Please vote whether you want to play the lower or upper (4-person scaling) sub-tier in this scenario. If you want to play up, I will need to do additional preparation.

Please vote on the attached poll. Thx.

Trenloe

January 5th, 2015, 18:23

(Note: Not adding a thread poll, because it doesn't show who voted.)
It does if you select "Make votes public" (Displays all users who voted, and what choice they voted for).

darrenan

January 5th, 2015, 18:26

5-6

HoloGnome

January 5th, 2015, 19:28

It does if you select "Make votes public" (Displays all users who voted, and what choice they voted for).

Ah - OK - thx! I'll do that. -- added poll with "make votes public"

kwarner1986

January 5th, 2015, 20:37

I have to cut back on my daytime commitments, so I have to sadly drop from this.

HoloGnome

January 5th, 2015, 21:30

kw - thanks for letting me know. Best of luck with your mom - sorry to hear that!

Lord Kavos

January 6th, 2015, 00:24

Yea only have 2 pcs that fit this range - both are 8th lvl.

Ulfgar still needs 1 more adv to get to 5th.

as for tier, would play up normally, but not a fan of dragging up low lvl pcs because it makes it harder for them to be effective- don't want any players to be frustrated because their pc can't hit anything - we all like to be able to do that from time to time lol...

HoloGnome

January 6th, 2015, 03:49

It looks like xazil's game was cancelled on Saturday AM, so he will be the 1st alternate. Victor/Belteshazzar is also available (same game cancellation) - so 2nd alternate. If anyone has to drop out, please let me know. Thx!

darrenan

January 6th, 2015, 21:25

You can let one of the alternates have my spot. I think I've had my fill of PFS for a while. Have fun y'all.

Farnaby

January 6th, 2015, 23:34

I'll take the cleric pregen. It might need healing. :)

HoloGnome

January 7th, 2015, 02:02

OK - sounds good. You will be starting the campaign with the Pre-Gen as designed, including spells, albeit with the option for spontaneous casting. I'm always mystified when I see spontaneous casting characters taking spell slots for the spells they can spontaneously cast, however. Not the greatest design, IMO, for this Pre-Gen. But...she has some nice stuff.

HoloGnome

January 7th, 2015, 02:17

Can everyone please vote and upload your characters/chronicles? Thanks!

Victor

January 7th, 2015, 05:44

I think I am an alternate now.

HoloGnome

January 7th, 2015, 06:31

Yes - you are!

xazil

January 7th, 2015, 11:39

In case I can get in:

Lord Kavos

January 7th, 2015, 14:40

already posted Julius...a few pages back now, let me know if u wan a repost

Trueshots

January 7th, 2015, 17:12

I'll put Lia up tonigh, she leveled to 8 last game and I haven't upgrade xml. Will work on it tobight. Thanks

Lord Kavos

January 8th, 2015, 00:29

The level up to 8th of lia changes the whole apl thing doesn't it???

xazil

January 8th, 2015, 00:50

Yeah, it puts the group into the 8-9 Tier, albeit with an APL of 6.8.

Lord Kavos

January 8th, 2015, 01:17

Thought so...

I dont have another option but lvl 8, so I cant help reduce the apl.

So it looks like we are stuck with high tier, so plan accordingly. Will have to play smart, so be wary of isolating your PC, provoking AoOs, etc - maybe buy a few buff scrolls & potions as well in preparation.

Hopefully Julius can scout ahead, use his gloves of reconnaissance so we can get a glimpse of what we are up against behind closed doors...I know Lia is a decent scout as well, and hits hard with sneak attack. And hopefully Skellan's tank can hold the big bad guys off the rest of the party for a while...so important to keep him healthy (cleric did u hear that lol)...

If we play smart & careful we should be able to handle what is thrown at us...(barring any DM crits of course - cant do much about them...)

Skellan

January 8th, 2015, 01:28

Its the most dangerous apl. I am up for it if everyone else is though. Norbur is a great tank he has DR 2 and AC 32, a jinghassa to avoid a crit and decent saves so he is pretty hard to take down. He also gives people next to him some DR and protection. He isn't so good at hurting stuff though.

Alternatively I think I have a lvl 5 bard who may lower the APL is that helps

Skellan

January 8th, 2015, 01:29

aaaannnd.. that was the kiss of death for Norbur haha. He's doomed now

xazil

January 8th, 2015, 01:40

Janek isn't really big on the damage but he does have good amounts of control spells when things fail their saving throwing. Of course he is only bringing level 3 spells into a place made for people bringing level 5 ones.

Trueshots

January 8th, 2015, 02:04

I'm gonna be honest, with Lia's level up she has become the most deadly ninja on the planet! (no offense Flashbolt) my BAB is now +6 so extra attack is gonna be fun. We got this boys, let that ugly Dwarf Norbur tank em while we mow em down! Im in middle of my static wed night game but will load xml and chronicle before I go to bed tonight. Excited bout this one!

Lord Kavos

January 8th, 2015, 03:23

Julius is not a true ninja anymore...he got some training for a few months, but didnt like the idea of being an assassin for hire - so he left the order & ventured out on his own...

But those abilities & skills learned were good for him, so he has kept up his training while his magical ability has flourished.

Now, with his new abilities (arcane trickster) he has managed to blend both disciplines into a style all his own, using magical strikes to bypass his opponent's armor while using his spells and abilities to avoid retaliatory attacks against him...

Sam Guerra

January 8th, 2015, 09:33

Sorry no can do Sat. 7pm have another game at that time.

HoloGnome

January 8th, 2015, 13:49

I'm on the road...and phone browser not great. will respond more when i can get to my computer.

Trueshots

January 8th, 2015, 16:29

Here she is boys, and she's beautiful!!!!!

(I hope I didn't mess up .xml, been so busy had to blow through it. I'll check over it again before game time)

Victor

January 8th, 2015, 23:10

I am gonna laugh so hard if you die Trueshots :)
Hasn't anyone ever told you about 'jinx'?

Trueshots

January 9th, 2015, 00:13

I am gonna laugh so hard if you die Trueshots :)
Hasn't anyone ever told you about 'jinx'?

Ninja don't believe in jinx they believe in deception, trickery and dealing quick death. Lia may not even lose a single hp the entire adventure.....just saying... ;)

Victor

January 9th, 2015, 00:32

Ninja don't believe in jinx they believe in deception, trickery and dealing quick death. Lia may not even lose a single hp the entire adventure.....just saying... ;)

You are SO going in front.

Trueshots

January 9th, 2015, 00:49

You are SO going in front.

LOL!!!!! I love it!

HoloGnome

January 9th, 2015, 09:18

OK - so looking at the party and comments in this thread, here are my thoughts:

- I am willing to play with 7 players and am allowed to do so per the Guide
- Sam - it looks like you have the incorrect game time - it starts at 11AM Saturday Pacific - 7PM would be the GMT time. Please check.
- 1 level for Lia isn't necessaily going to change the outcome and doesn't reduce the inherent risk for lower level players - it's very dangerous on the upper tier and requires consideration of the well-being of the whole party vs. 1 character. The enthusiasm is great, but everyone should consider what it means to face sub-tier 8-9 opponents and encounters of all types. For example, with respect to basic melee, as long as both facets of melee effectiveness are present (to hit/damage), battles are more predictable, but when both are not present, the assumptions break down. For example, we struggled with the Silver Mount adventure because of high tech-based DR. Crowd control had the biggest impact on our survival (and with Belte & Janek, that will be present this time). Is Lia awesome? Yes. Does she address all forms of combat, guarantee success and prevent others from having upper tier base risk? No. And, what about AoE's? Hypothetically, when you face upper level opponents who do 1d6/level damage, upper tier encounters quickly go south, especially considering that not only is the damage elevated, but also there are more instances of it. It can be a recipe for disaster. Also, none of us really has the time on Saturday to claw away slowly at an upper tier adventure.
- Skellan -if Sam plays (assuming there is some time confusion) and you bring the Monk 5, the APL is 6.3 and we will play the lower sub-tier. It should be a quick, fun game with good odds of success and there will probably be time for the optional encounter. Given that this is my first PFS game and we have another game afterwards, this option is my preference. And, if Sam is still dropping out, with the Monk 5, the APL is still at 6.5 and playing down is available as a player choice.

So, Sam - what is the scoop re: time? Also, Skellan are you willing to play the Monk? Your choice.

If Sam playing and Monk 5 for skellan, then APL 6.3 and lower sub-tier. (7 players, including Janek)
If Sam playing and Norbur 7 for skellan, then APL 6.6 and upper sub-tier/4 scaling (7 players, including Janek)

If Sam not playing and Monk 5 for skellan, then APL 6.5 and I strongly recommend lower sub-tier (including for time reasons) - but it's player choice
If Sam not playing and Norbur 7 for skellan, then APL 6.8 and upper sub-tier/4 scaling

Sam/Skellan - please update! Thx. :)

Skellan

January 9th, 2015, 10:42

Ok, I just checked Elston my bard (I presume this is who you meant), the bad news is that he is actually level 6 now, so I think it would shift us up to the higher sub tier. The good news is I have a level 5 ranger who I could bring out of retirement. I am happy to play whatever.

HoloGnome

January 9th, 2015, 10:45

OK. Thanks for being so flexible! Seems like the lower subtier is still possible, even with 7.

Skellan

January 9th, 2015, 10:54

Oh, is it the game I am in that has 7 players? If so, I will stand out of this one to make it easier. Thanks for offering to run with 7 though

Sam Guerra

January 9th, 2015, 16:12

Here is Karrack's info

Also i am est time zone and my calender is showing 2pm. is that right or are we playing 11pm est?

Farnaby

January 9th, 2015, 17:15

I have 8pm CET so it should be 2pm EST.

Trueshots

January 9th, 2015, 17:18

Yup 2pm est

Lord Kavos

January 9th, 2015, 23:02

Holognome, I wouldn't run a 7 person table as your first PFS game if I was u buddy...

More players means longer rounds, drawn out decision making, planning etc - plus longer before a player gets another go. Big tables are difficult to run in any game.

As skellan said, if it is my 8th lvl pc that is making things difficult I will drop out, but that doesn't mean I am not keen to play, just happy to step aside if I have to.

Skellan

January 10th, 2015, 00:06

yeah, I didn't mean to sound blunt (if I did). I'd have loved to have played. Perhaps schedule another session sometime? I have arranged something else for tomorrow now so go for it Kavos :) have fun everyone

Trueshots

January 10th, 2015, 02:42

Yea, even with six it takes forever I like 4 man groups tbh. That Series you ran for us Andrew we only had 4 for all 3 parts, was one of funest times I've had on FG, battles go quick.

Since I've been back I've had great time but the one negative Im feeling is the extrodinary time people take on their turn and the amount of hesitansy in the players. I urge people to remember it's a game with some buddies and if you die, you die, there's plenty more good times to have!

Trenloe

January 10th, 2015, 02:56

Since I've been back I've had great time but the one negative Im feeling is the extrodinary time people take on their turn and the amount of hesitansy in the players.
The great thing about FG is that you can look at the combat tracker and know exactly when your turn is coming up - be ready with what you're going to do, think about it before your turn. There's always the odd time when things change at the last moment and you have to re-think on the fly, but there is really no excuse for constantly not having your actions ready when it comes to your turn. PFS GMs should state this at the start of the game and give reminders throughout the game to players who specifically take a lot of time to do their actions. Players shouldn't feel constantly rushed/pressured, but they should know that it is their responsibility to think in advance and be ready to act. If they are struggling with effects etc. then just manually apply the bonuses, if they're casting spells that require effects to be applied then move on and apply then during other people's turns.

HoloGnome

January 10th, 2015, 04:04

I'm traveling...I'll read all these notes tonight. Thx in advance.

Lord Kavos

January 10th, 2015, 11:54

Holognome,

need you to post your server details & preferred teamspeak channel...not on the calendar or in this thread so far

HoloGnome

January 10th, 2015, 14:15

Hi All -

OK - sounds like Skellan has dropped. Skellan - I will try to run it again.

Final Party:

1. Trueshots: Ninja 8
2. Lord Kavos: Sorc/Ninja/Trickster 4/3/1 (best) or Ranger 5
---------------------------
3. Farnaby: Cleric 7
---------------------------
4. Xazil: PFA 6 (congrats to the new PFA!)
5. Victor: Magus 5
6. Sam Guerra: Barbarian/Hunter 3/2

APL: 6.5 (Trickster) or 6 (Ranger)

Votes:
UP: Lord Kavos (8), Trueshots (8), Victor "Deathwish" Bronson :D (5)
DOWN: Farnaby (7), Sam Guerra (5), Xazil (6), me

Sooo, we will be playing the lower sub-tier in normal mode. The vote is evenly split vs. those playing, so I guess I am the swing vote.

I want this to be a fun, quick, game, since many of us have a 2nd game today or other commitments, we absolutely cannot afford to run long, everyone needs the success, and it's my first PFS game. If this game is easier, it's OK, but there's plenty of risk and hopefully there will be time for the optional encounter which has a 90-minute cut-off. If you get to it within about 3 hrs., we will do it.

Also, as I mentioned, the upper tier represents extremely high risk of failure/death, especially for Lvl 5-6 PCs vs. Lvl 8-9 encounters (where CRs in some cases are doubled) and note that Julius Flashbolt as level 8 (4/3/1) multi-class character is at a disadvantage in a straight level vs. level battle, but definitely offers great utility in encounters that are level-scaled in the range of his multiclass skills.

Server info is on the game page and in my sig. I will put the server up a couple of hours before the game.

Looking forward to it!

----------------------

Responses to previous posts:
re: 7 people - I see the point and defer to those who have done the PFS GMing. The hypothetical advantage would be in the action economy of PC vs. NPC actions. I was thinking that battles should generally take the same amount of time, albeit with fewer actions on the part of each individual player, but with a greater chance of success (more PC vs. NPC actions). Also, I agree that there might be some extra planning overhead, but hopefully a net battle time savings against tougher opponents, where players use the extra battle time to plan their actions ahead of time to speed things along. Just a theory - I was suggesting it in the event that all of you decided to play the higher tier, but now it's moot.

re: OK to die because it's fun - While character death happens, it should not be a frequent occurrence in reasonably scaled encounters. :) Players put a tremendous amount of time from their daily lives into their characters and they may not easily be able (or want to have to assume the high cost) to restore them in the event of death. So, while playing on the wild side far above the party level may have a certain reckless fun to it, perhaps not unlike driving a car at 90 mph at a brick wall and trying to dive out at the last second, it might not go well for all concerned. I think that GMs should respect and consider the player real-world time investment and I'm all for the reasonable risk of the typical scenario, which is often plenty challenging. Also, vs. AoE, there is usually no way a higher level character can shield a lower level one and the extreme risk of what it means to face a high-level opponent subsequently manifests itself as a rapid demise of the low-level PCs and increased risk for any remaining PCs who are now under-staffed vs. the encounter.

Trueshots

January 10th, 2015, 16:55

Fyi, I don't think the gm gets a vote on the subteir. It's up to the players from what I understand. I think we should revote. The upper tier is scale to 4 players. It's not that difficult. You say there is an "extreme" chance of death I just don't see this being any more extreme than other subtier 8-9 games.
Lastly, about flashbolt. He is always tops on damage output in games I've played with him, I would not consider him the reason we shouldn't play upper subtier, that's cra cra talk.....

HoloGnome

January 10th, 2015, 17:30

Fyi, I don't think the gm gets a vote on the subteir. It's up to the players from what I understand. I think we should revote. The upper tier is scale to 4 players. It's not that difficult.

TS - As my first PFS campaign, I am not going to run the upper subtier today for all the reasons previously stated, and I would like to move past the debate and voting, since we've already done that. Let's just have a good time.

If that's a deal-breaker (TS, LK, or anyone else) and you want to drop today's game, that's perfectly OK. For those that will only accept the upper subtier, I completely understand and support your decision and will happily accommodate you on an upper subtier fabric campaign run on another day with a different, more appropriate party composition (including picking up Skellan). We can start discussions for a true 8-9 party, as necessary.

I was hoping you would come along to help me on the GM side on my first run, however. How about a little altruism? :)

So, today, we're not going to push the time limit which has been a problem with mismatched parties and/or drag 5th levels (including ones that have already recently died and suffered a heavy gear/financial penalty) into a very dangerous campaign (and I believe my assessment of the risk is accurate based on the data).

So, if you want to hang out and have some fun, let's go! :) Otherwise, OK to defer for 8-9.

The server is up and I will bring up teamspeak in few mins.

Trueshots

January 10th, 2015, 17:37

I was hoping you would come along to help me on the GM side on my first run, however. How about a little altruism? :)

Well I learned a new word today......Were you there when I GM'd your last game? I'm a horrible GM, have no clue what I'm doing. Who you want is Skellan or Kavos :)

Trueshots

January 10th, 2015, 17:52

Not to beat you up about this, but I believe if we had a revote it would swing to the upper tier. Farnaby has no hope of dying. With a pregen even if he dies he loses nothing. The 7 level Kyra is an insane healer. Victor (aka. the weakest link) I watched him dismantle 4 npc's by himself in the last game I GM'd at subtler 6-7 so he should at least be able to handle one by himself :) Of course we'll leave the wannabe ninja sorc trickster unviable Flashbolt to do the heavy lifting and kill all the other stuff ;)

Determining Subtiers
In order to determine which subtier a mixed-level group
of PCs must play in, calculate the group’s average party
level (APL). Divide the total number of character levels by
the number of characters in the party. You should always
round to the nearest whole number. If you are exactly at
0.5, let the group decide which subtier they wish to play.

We can do it boys!!!!!!!!!! :)

HoloGnome

January 10th, 2015, 18:19

We can do it boys!!!!!!!!!! :)

I love the passion, but am not entertaining any more discussion on this issue. The options today are: run 5-6 normal or drop and defer for a later 8-9 run. If more than 2 drop, I will have to cancel today's adventure.

I would love to run the upper subtier if the party composition were different, but it's not and it would be irresponsible to run the upper subtier with the current composition. Also, when you lobby for it to happen, you are doing so from the standpoint of your own 8th level character and not really considering what might happen to the 5's and 6's in situations that you can avoid with more hitpoints/gear/AC, etc., curing or no curing. Also, you need to consider the overall time required to complete the game. I'm not interested in a marathon timing session in upscaled battles - I have a game after this one and so do others.

So, we're not going to do it. If it means I have to cancel the game because people drop, I will. :) But, let's not go there and just move forward and have some fun.

Trueshots

January 10th, 2015, 18:39

I love the passion, but am not entertaining any more discussion on this issue. The options today are: run 5-6 normal or drop

Im trying to figure out the gold for the adventure. I can't find in PSOPG if I would get out of their gold or 8-9 gold being that I am in the 8-9 tier. I can't remember. Lia's problem, to put it lightly, is she's a greedy ninja....She is what I like to call a "Gold Whore" she loves here gold and her face equipment :)

Trueshots

January 10th, 2015, 18:45

Opps forgot to add. The difference between the subteirs is over 3k gold. That from my perspective is taking a massive hit to gold for no real reason. Is there any way for me to play, so I can help out, but not take credit? Then I can play for credit when you run it on the upper tier for Skelly and others.

HoloGnome

January 10th, 2015, 19:06

No - you can only play once, sorry. As soon as you start and get the intro, you get the credit/sheet.

HoloGnome

January 10th, 2015, 19:08

See my sig for server info - just missing LK at this point.

Trenloe

January 10th, 2015, 19:09

The difference between the subteirs is over 3k gold.
But you'll be out-of-subtier so you'd get the average of the two, so the difference is approx. 1500gp.

Is there any way for me to play, so I can help out, but not take credit? Then I can play for credit when you run it on the upper tier for Skelly and others.
As HG says, the first time you play you get credit.

HoloGnome

January 10th, 2015, 19:23

OK - is there anyone who wants to play - it looks like we are at 4 - one dropping and maybe one asleep. Can take 2 more at the 5-6 tier.

Server is: cold wand bold fang teamspeak.fg-con.com

HoloGnome

January 11th, 2015, 01:05

Thanks for playing everyone - really enjoyed GMing for you! Great job and congrats on success and finishing in 5 hrs. on the nose on the 5-6 tier! I'll work on the chronicles tomorrow. Let me know if anyone needs them sooner.

Lord Kavos

January 11th, 2015, 07:06

Good game buddy...

Thx for letting me play after my sleep in...(stupid alarm)

Was enjoyable, got to show u Julius isn't the lightweight he appears to be, and we finished in time so I could go to the birthday party on time...success all round.

HoloGnome

January 11th, 2015, 16:03

Hey LK - No worries - you were willing to get up before dawn to play and you got in just after the intro and before the 1st encounter.

Julius seems very flexible. The thing I didn't realize was the +CL3 from Magical Knack and Arcane Trickster that made him an effective CL7 with class level 5 as a sorcerer - nice archetype! - and helped on spell effects/durations. Also - love the Gloves of Recon. Great item! My Rake/Enchanter could take a couple more wizard levels and go Arcane Trickster after that - I'll have to think about it.

The rolls were definitely in the party's favor and you all maintained battle initiative in the hardest encounters and had a little luck on the trap side. Without those benefits (blinding, dispelling, traps, etc.), any of those battles could have gone downhill. The NPCs were only 1 round away from gaining initiative and, except in 1 case, lost init to the party. Also, with slightly different rolls or missing knowledge skills, other things could have happened (but didn't). In the end, Initiative ended up being the biggest balancer, and I was very happy with the outcome, time, etc. I wish there would have been time for the optional encounter, but we had games to get to afterwards and we ended up with a 30-minute break before our next game, which was nice. Also, we got to add in the faction missions for additional flavor (and they had some important info).

I didn't like the secondary success condition in the rules for this scenario very much (remapped from Season 4 faction missions, which brought it down to an abstract d20 roll), but the party was able to (just barely) gain all the modifiers (which gave it a partial player skill and aid another component, but again, more tied to random knowledge skill vs. player ingenuity or action)...and the party had a high (2nd) roll. Farnaby's initial roll of 1 was hilarious...and if you had to fail, that was actually the way to do it vs. partial success, which would not have granted the additional prestige.

Also - thanks to you guys for helping out with my GM-related questions. We were able to keep the rules delays to a minimum or look up in parallel and, when it occurred, the discussion was very educational. It really helped manage the time.

I'll work on the chronicle sheets this AM. Farnaby - please send me the ID of the character to which you would like to apply the credit. As soon as you hit 5th level, you can get it. I'm happy to defer the chronicle until you're ready to keep the paperwork to a minimum. At that point, I think I can just write it for your intended character.

Game Summary:
Party Composition: Ninja 8, Sorc/Nin/ArcTrick 4/3/1, Cleric 7 Pregen, Sorc/PathFieldAgent 5/1, Magus 5, Barbarian 5
APL/Sub-Tier: 6.5 / 5-6
Game Time: 5 hrs. (11:30AM-4:30PM Pacific)
Faction Missions: Yes
Optional Encounter: No
Primary Success: Yes
Secondary Success: Yes
Character Death: No
In-Sub-Tier Awards: 1XP/2PP/2512GP (NORMAL)/.5XP/1PP/1256GP (SLOW)
Mid-Tier Awards: 1XP/2PP/4050GP (NORMAL) (For reference, High-Sub-Tier Gold would have been 5587)

Trenloe

January 11th, 2015, 16:10

Farnaby - please send me the ID of the character to which you would like to apply the credit. As soon as you hit 5th level, you can get it.
Assuming Farnaby played the level 7 cleric pregen they'll have to wait until their PC reaches level 7 (unless they apply the chronicle to a level 1 PC). If not applying the chronicle to a level 1 PC, you apply the chronicle gained from playing a pregen to a PC when they reach the level of the pregen played, not the subtier the group played.

HoloGnome

January 11th, 2015, 16:16

Assuming Farnaby played the level 7 cleric pregen they'll have to wait until their PC reaches level 7 (unless they apply the chronicle to a level 1 PC). If not applying the chronicle to a level 1 PC, you apply the chronicle gained from playing a pregen to a PC when they reach the level of the pregen played, not the subtier the group played.

Ah, OK, right - thanks! I think I also suddenly see the strategic value of applying pregens to a new 1st level, since it gives them a huge gold benefit (assuming there is actually a way to spend it on a chronicle sheet item vs. having to wait for a prestige cliff). You could easily pick up an early +1 resistance cloak from a chronicle (common) + better weapons, armor, etc.

Farnaby

January 11th, 2015, 16:39

Do I have to announce now who I'm giving it to or can it wait?

Trenloe

January 11th, 2015, 17:00

Ah, OK, right - thanks! I think I also suddenly see the strategic value of applying pregens to a new 1st level, since it gives them a huge gold benefit (assuming there is actually a way to spend it on a chronicle sheet item vs. having to wait for a prestige cliff). You could easily pick up an early +1 resistance cloak from a chronicle (common) + better weapons, armor, etc.
If you apply a chronicle gained through playing a higher level pregen to a 1st level PC you only get 500gp (see page 6 in the PFS guide).

HoloGnome

January 11th, 2015, 17:04

I think you can wait. The Guide doesn't explicitly say that you have to declare in advance. You can also apply to it to a 1st-level character, but the gold will be limited to 500gp. (However, it is a way to get to 2nd level after only playing 2 adventures - less risk.)

If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated character, you apply the credit to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated character played.

So unless someone helps me out here and indicates otherwise, it should be any character you want at the point when it hits 7th level (or to a 1st level), since you had no characters that were in-tier for the scenario. Trenloe - is this correct?

Trenloe - haha - yeah - just saw it - knew it was too good to be true. ^_^

Trenloe

January 11th, 2015, 17:10

Do I have to announce now who I'm giving it to or can it wait?
You really should do it now so that it can be reported correctly on Paizo.com. However, if the GM is willing to work with you and update chronicle sheets/reporting sometime in the future; then you could apply it now to the most likely character you'll select in future and get the chronicle and reporting changed later. However - don't rely on this, as GM's come and go, or you might take a long time to get the PC to level 7 that you want to apply this chronicle to; and the GM (HoloGnome in this case, but this applies to all GMs) might not be available or willing to do the changes for you in future.

HoloGnome

January 11th, 2015, 17:20

OK, thanks. I guess that's prudent. Farnaby - why don't you choose the most likely, and I will apply it to that character - probably Meredith, right?

Skellan

January 11th, 2015, 19:03

Glad this session went well. Good job HG. Hopefully I will get in on the next one.

HoloGnome

January 11th, 2015, 19:08

Thanks! Hope so! I sent you an invitation.

HoloGnome

January 11th, 2015, 22:59

Chronicle Sheets for Janek, Belteshazzar, Karrack, Lia and Julius attached - note the boon - forgot to mention it yesterday.

Please check them - happy to make any necessary changes. I think I incorporated everything from the pre-chronicle/game notes.

EDIT: Sorry - forgot to check "Normal" for Janek and Karrack - if you grabbed it before seeing this note, re-download it.

LK: The Fame and Prestige for Julius on your previous chronicle are reversed. I fixed it in this one.

TS: Please confirm back that Lia has only used 2 of her entire career prestige. If correct, chronicle is here.

Farnaby: When you designate the character, I will upload your sheet.

All the chronicles except Farnaby's have been reported.

Lord Kavos

January 12th, 2015, 09:00

Julius' looks good buddy.

thx again for the game

HoloGnome

January 12th, 2015, 09:10

You're welcome!

Farnaby

January 12th, 2015, 11:19

Okay,

I'll choose Meredith, but what happens if she dies? Can I take the chronicle and put it on someone else?

Lord Kavos

January 12th, 2015, 13:19

Okay,

I'll choose Meredith, but what happens if she dies? Can I take the chronicle and put it on someone else?

no buddy, thats one of the reasons it gets reported as a particular PC...

HoloGnome

January 12th, 2015, 15:00

LK is right, of course. Good discussion on death of PC before applying credit from a pregenerated character can be found here: Applied Credit Then Character Death ([https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qj6g?Applied-pregen-credit-then-character-death").

Also, it covers the topic of what should happen when playing a pregen that dies (either immediately apply it to a PC and report that character as dead, or apply it to a new 1st level character and report that one as dead).

HoloGnome

January 12th, 2015, 17:18

Hi Farnaby - attached is Meredith's chronicle - also reported it.

Edit: After reading through how to handle pregen chronicles a little bit more, I realized that my 1st attempt was wrong. I have left it blank - when you hit 7th level, you can just fill it in. I think that's correct. However, since Kyra did not have a day job, there is no day job roll.

cmdisc

January 12th, 2015, 18:32

IIRC, pregens aren't allowed Day Job rolls anyway as you get to use up their expendables without cost.

HoloGnome

January 12th, 2015, 18:41

I guess that means you could theoretically sell stuff they have and buy other stuff - is that correct? cm - have I done the chronicle for Meredith they way it should be done?

In this campaign, the only rule that was more gray for me was how to handle spells. I started the pregen with the spells she was given and allowed them to be changed with a rest period. I think that's right, but does anyone know with certainty...or is there a rule somewhere? It seems like players should be able to choose whatever spells they want for spellcasting pregens (especially because the spell choices are not very good), but I found conflicting info.

Trenloe

January 12th, 2015, 19:40

In this campaign, the only rule that was more gray for me was how to handle spells. I started the pregen with the spells she was given and allowed them to be changed with a rest period. I think that's right, but does anyone know with certainty...or is there a rule somewhere? It seems like players should be able to choose whatever spells they want for spellcasting pregens (especially because the spell choices are not very good), but I found conflicting info.
The only pregens that can be used are the ones supplied on the PFS website: https://paizo.com/products/btpy9a64

The PFS FAQ confirms that even third party variants of these can't be used: https://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/faq#v5748eaic9pt1

Therefore, if you "assume" changing anything on a pregen would make it a third party variant, then you should start the game with the pregen as written. Then, within reason and the time/resources available within the game session, the player can make changes - e.g. Ezren has his spellbook listed, so given sufficient time in-game he could memorise any spells from his spellbook. If Kyra has time to pray, she can swap out her spells.

As usual there is GM variation here as there has been no official statement in detail around this. Ultimately, you want someone playing a pregen to have the minimum of impact on the session - you don't want them delaying/disrupting the game by spending 30 minutes going through the rulebook and swapping out spells, selling equipment in Absalom at 50%, buying new stuff, etc.. Using a pregen allows you to play in a session you wouldn't normally be able to play in, which is nice. The down-side to that is that the player is constrained with regards to playing the specific PFS pregen as provided.