Checking into FG - Question

[Alydar]

Hello all.

New forum member, first post. I am investigating FG as a VTT program for a game I will be running shortly. Watching numerous videos and trying out the demo of the software, it is difficult not to be incredibly impressed. A lot of work obviously has gone into this program and it shows.

I have two what I believe are basic (possibly stupid) questions.

1. When looking at an alternative program like roll20, I notice it lets me write up journal entries anytime and post them. My players could log in to roll20 at any time and keep up with a running storyline or new entries I post completely independent of my status. Is this true of FG as well? I can't tell from what I've read and watched. In FG, will my players be able to "log into" the campaign and read notes, edit characters, etc... at their leisure?

2. Let's say I want to run a Numenera game, and I load and use that ruleset when setting up my campaign. Could I keep the ruleset and the character sheets, etc... but at the same time use the graphic/art interface for say D&D 4e? I'm guessing this can't be done without a lot of work - but I am curious. If this is possible, where would I go to learn how to do this, or is it self explanatory?

Thank you in advance and congratulations on what appears to be such a great community.

[dulux-oz]

Hi Alydar, and welcome to the community.

To answer your first question, no, the main difference between FG and roll20 in this sense is that with roll20, the roll20 servers are online all the time and both players and the GM log into those servers. With FG the GM is the one running the server and the players log into him (or her). As far as editing PCs: sort of. They can edit in offline mode but will have to upload the changes the next time they connect to the GM.

There are pros and cons with both approaches, but most of us prefer it the FG way. To do what you suggest I and my group simply use DropBox, but even then we don't do this a lot because the essence of a VTT is the social aspect of getting together.

To answer your second question, yes, its possible, but it requires some experience with computer programming and is not something that I'd recommend a new coder to attempt - still, new coders have done this and other similar things so don't let me stop you :)

All in all, you'll find FG is probably a better bet than anything else out there, both for the program itself (cost/value, usage, etc) and also because of the absolutely fantastic community here.

Anyway, have fun and don't be afraid of asking questions - we're all pretty friendly here and don't mind answering.

Cheers

[Blacky]

Note that changing theme (or skin) images from one to another is usually one of the simplest thing to code. Ruleset coding or modification is extremely complex and not well documented, but in this hard skillset altering ruleset images is usually the less hard thing to do.

[Trenloe]

To expand on question 1 - you can do this, but you will need to leave your GM instance of your campaign running. OK if you're on a home computer, but not great if you're working on a computer that needs to be shutdown regularly.

Some GMs use online campaign management tools to have story info, character bios, when the next game is, etc. available online all the time. I use Obsidian Portal to do this for a few campaigns I run, and GMs in a few games I play use it. But, this is obviously separate to Fantasy Grounds but this usually isn't a problem as I use generic background and geographical data in Obsidian Portal and the main "here and now" gaming data in Fantasy Grounds - Obsidian Portal is just used between games, rarely during the game.

[Griogre]

Another way of doing things between sessions is use a private yahoo or google group. I have a different group for each of my games and the groups have the advantage of message boards that auto-email out each message so people don't have to log in.

[damned]

for changing the theme visuals - have a look at the themes here - https://www.fg-con.com/free-downloads/
theya re not full themes - they dont replace every element but you can see exactly how it is done and it is quite easy.
even easier because you want to use an existing set of graphics so you dont have to make any new ones....
even easier again - would be to have a look at the additional 4e themes ad just add the Numenera ruleset tag to them...


and to question 1 - so long as you leave your pc on and fg running - or you do it during specific time windows - the players can logon - otherwise no.

[Mirloc]

Everyone has already beaten Question 1 into the dirt.

As for Question 2, with no coding - and very little information, I made a whole new theme for a game I ran in about 2 hours. It was easy once you open up the ruleset and see the names of the graphic files.
Here's the basic information:
Open the .PAK files (rename to .ZIP to open the file up, really .PAK is just a renamed .ZIP file). Open the GRAPHICS.XML file and that file will point you to the files you need to edit. Personally, I use NOTEPAD++ (https://notepad-plus-plus.org/) for several reasons, the first is that NOTEPAD++ numbers the lines, and lets you know when you have an error in XML.

If you have any other questions, please, feel free to ask.

[Alydar]

You guys have been very helpful.

After reading your answers, even though the responses to #1 bums me out - I have decided to purchase Fantasy Grounds. The ability to organize my campaign in an awesome interface is just too enticing. Because I will primarily be running Numenera, so many of the amazing automated features of this program will be unneeded. (Numenera is so rules-lite, the need to use many of the built in features of FG are just not necessary imo). However, when I begin my 5e D&D campaign later in 2015, the full power of FG should really be amazing.

I think I will take advantage of some of your suggestions regarding using another avenue (be it Google, Obsidian Portal, etc...) in order to do the roleplaying away from the live sessions, as that is honestly only about 10% of the campaign, and should not be a big deal. Certainly the bulk of the campaign will occur "live" using FG and skype. The interface is so cool - I'm sure the guys will love pushing all the buttons and reading all the ancillary stuff anyway.

Once I get a grasp on the program itself, I will dive into the mixing of the 4e graphic sets (which I absolutely love - whoever did them) with the Numenera ruleset. And trust me, I will take you all up on your offers to answer questions regarding that, as I am not going to claim even an ounce of programming savvy. And some of those themes in the link shared above as well as the Savage Worlds themes on the screenshots page here are amazing too!

My deep thanks to the community members who took the time to answer my questions. Best Regards.

[Alydar]

OK, question 3:

Buying the Ultimate Edition Package allows me to host a game for all my players to connect to. What exactly do they need in order to connect? Do they need to purchase anything, or can they download a "user only" type of program? Again, I feel like this is probably monumentally obvious, but I need just a little direction. Thanks.

Edit: I see in the License Comparison section that getting the free demo version is all they should need to connect. Am I interpreting that correctly?

[Dakadin]

Yes, they just need the free demo version to connect to the Ultimate version. It will do a quick check against the server to validate the ultimate license then allow the connection.

[Alydar]

Excellent. Thank you.

Another Question: Does anyone play over a "virtual LAN" using a program like Evolve? https://www.evolvehq.com/welcome

We use Evolve for so much of our private gaming, and it works incredibly well. Just curious if using FG with it would eliminate the potential open/closed port issues.

Anyone know by chance?


Edit to add: So I started messing around with the program, putting together my first module (campaign) for the group. Holy Cow - this program is incredible. Fun, easy to use, and the ability to organize amazingly well. So pleased as of now.

[damned]

Alydar - yes - Virtual LAN, VPN, etc all work. Still have to make sure your software firewall allows incoming TCP1802 on GM machine only.

[damned]

here are some very short videos - 2mins - 7mins each - 1 topic only -
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsgd1zJLdiKUrEd85Dqr6UcaaLvD7YlJd
low production quality but each covers a topic simply and quickly...

[Alydar]

Very helpful. Thank you, damned!


Next Question: Can Players go into the Notes Section and basically create their own entries? One of my players loves taking notes while we play. Does he have the ability to create his own notes, and then share those with the party?

[Mask_of_winter]

Very helpful. Thank you, damned!


Next Question: Can Players go into the Notes Section and basically create their own entries? One of my players loves taking notes while we play. Does he have the ability to create his own notes, and then share those with the party?

Yes, players have access to the Notes. To make them public, players can check the circle named "public". Voila!

[damned]

Another tip on Notes if you have a player like this...
get him to write up a brief summary and (you) add it to the in game Calendar...
this will let players go back and see what happened on previous days and saves you doing all the extra work

[Alydar]

Great advice.

Next Question: I have started watching videos on Youtube (Dulux's and others) - which has saved maybe 10 questions already, I'm sure you're happy to hear. One I want to know immediately though, before I continue to put all the effort in: Can I transfer/export/carry over created tables from one module/scenario/campaign to another? If so, is it relatively painless, or a big hassle?

edit to add: I am currently using the Numenera ruleset(?) with no library modules, if that matters.


Thanks again.

[Mask_of_winter]

Once your tables have been created type /export in the chat window. Fill out the form (name, file name, category[make one up]) click on the circle box for tables and then click Export at the bottom.

You now have your own library module you can open up in other campaigns.

[Alydar]

Fantastic! Man that makes me so happy. Thank you.

I really can't tell you how happy I am with FG so far. I would imagine all GM's with an obsessive organization personality like I probably have would love the heck out of this program. And to think I nearly passed it up completely because my first impression upon just a cursory investigation was that it was way too difficult and cumbersome to use.

On another note, as damned said, Evolve worked perfectly for my brother and I. No issues connecting whatsoever with it up and running.

[Nylanfs]

It is very, VERY easy. That's how I'm getting my NPC's in the RttToEE module I'm busy converting to Pathfinder right now.

[Alydar]

Hey guys, next questions: I am using the Numenera Ruleset (it's very well done, but pretty basic compared to some of the others, as I'm sure you all know). If I wanted to build something in game that was like a store list, or a weapon list with prices, damage, weapon type, etc...

1. Can I do this using the in-game options?
2. If so, do I use Tables to create this, or is there a better way?

The reason I ask, is I'm watching a bunch of videos, and it looks like someone built this data for the 4e ruleset, and it just looks so good. I'm wondering if I could "build" my own using in-game tools, or if I need to know how to code and then import it somehow. If that is what I needed to do (I hope not) - could you direct me to the easiest set of instructions on how to do that?

Thanks again.

[Trenloe]

You could do this within Fantasy Grounds without coding using a Story entry with a table embedded. See the info on formatted text fields here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/The_Basics#Formatted_Text_Fields particularly the final few shortcut keys related to building a table.

You could, for example, do the medium weapons table like this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39085830/Screenshots/Fantasy%20Grounds/Numenera%20Equipment%20Story%20Entry.JPG

Have the table in the story entry and then have item links beneath the table allowing the players to drag the items to their inventory.

You'll have to share the story entry with the players so they can access it. Then they can access it again and again from their "Story" list.

[Mirloc]

To add a bit to Trenloe's most excellent post...

Start a new campaign to add the information into. (I'll completely explain in a bit, have patience...) Once you've finished up adding in the information you want and are ready, export the completed campaign and since you are watching the videos, I'm sure you've seen how to perform an export so I won't add to my thread.

Now that you have the module exported, open your actual campaign and open the library. You'll see the exported campaign with the store information. This way when you are playing and the players (or you) need access to the information, you can open the library up and read it, when you aren't using it, you can close it. It just makes playing a bit easier when you don't have tons of extra information laying about, and you can re-use the exported store information in any future games.

I taught my son this same technique. Your play module only holds the characters, all game play and game information you should load into modules. Think of it like this: Your game module is the table where you play at. The exported modules are the game books and source material that you need for game play.

Typically, I have the game play (called Tabletop), and the world information (World which has race information, and all that kind of stuff), the GM information (shockingly called GM, I know - typical) Since I typically use World of Darkness for my game platform, each major game event is defined as a chapter - so each chapter is divided up containing the information I need to play that chapter only. When I load the game up each session I only load Tabletop, GM (GM only), World (Player allowed), and ChapterXX (GM only). This way you have the least amount of information being exchanged from the GM's machine to the player's machines.

[Alydar]

Seriously, could this community be any more awesome?

Thank you both so much!

[Alydar]

I am going to try it and see if I can figure it out, Mirloc. I'll be back with questions depending on my level of ineptitude.
Trenloe's explanation seems easy enough. Off to give it a whirl.

[ddavison]

The shortcut keys are essential to doing any significant work inside of FG. Make sure to try the CTRL+# for the different types of text (i.e., headers, story, links, lists) and then CTRL+J to help combine an entire paragraph and remove the extra line endings when copying from a PDF that has hard-coded line endings.

[Alydar]

Yes. I'm getting really good at the PDF stuff. I watched a video on that already and it helped tremendously.

Question: I'm assuming if using Mirloc's method of seperating out the books, so to speak, I need to use the same Ruleset for everything I plan on importing, combining, etc...?

[ddavison]

You'll want to use the same ruleset for your play campaign and for your library building campaign to ensure that they are compatible with each other. You can re-use the build campaign to export multiple modules, but then you'll be required to select which story entries, images, etc. you want each time you export it. I generally prefer to start a new campaign for each library module I like to build that way.

[Alydar]

I think I understand. Thank you!

[Alydar]

So my module has come along nicely. Using the tips and tricks from this thread and all the help videos has made it really easy. Can't really thank you guys enough for that. So here's my next question:

I want to do a skill list, since the Numenera ruleset doesn't have a downloadable one (I'm guessing because of the licensing thing or because it's just not a super popular system). At any rate, I'm thinking of just doing it as a module I can import in from the library, and I have come up with about 30 of them by cherry-picking other systems. Anyway, bottom line is I want to be able to let my players bring up the list, maybe click on a link, and have a little box come up with the skill and description and a little example of it in use. Not unlike an ability or weapon or other such things.

How would you guys do it? My original thought was use the Notes section, call one Master Skill List, then just do 30 more notes for each skill and do the links. But I'm thinking there might be a better way. Any advice?

[Trenloe]

You could create the skill list and details in a library module - have a look at the 3.5E Basic Rules library module and the skills entries there - this will give you an idea of how to format the library module XML.

The issue you'll have with this in Numenara is that there aren't any links in the skill list, nor is there drag/drop functionality to support adding a skill from a module. The Numenera ruleset would have to be modified to add the link and to support drag/drop functionality.

So, you could make a reference library of the skills you're compiling, but you'd still have to add a single line entry manually to the character sheet skills section.

[damned]

Do it in Story entries not notes.

[Trenloe]

If you don't want to create a library module, do it in story entries not notes as damned says. My post above (post #22) shows you have to include links within a story entry - just drag a story entry link for a skill into a story entry that is your skill list.

[Nylanfs]

Have you checked out how Pathfinder's skills work, that's kind of exactly how it's done.

[Trenloe]

Have you checked out how Pathfinder's skills work, that's kind of exactly how it's done.
Alyadr, you could look at either the 3.5E Basic Rules (as I mentioned in post #31 above) or the PFRPG Basic Rules module for examples of how to include skills in a library module - they both use exactly the same code. However, thinking about this a bit more, the problem you'll come across is that the class used in those modules to display the skill details is referenceskill which is only present in some rulesets (3.5E, 4E, etc.) but not Numenera. So you'd need to move the ref_skills.xml file from the 3.5E \ref directory into Numenera to use the 3.5e library class in the Numenera ruleset, or change the class used to be referencetext as this is in CoreRPG (which Numenera is based on).

So, to help you get started, I've cut down the 3.5E Basic Rules modules and changed the FG class used to display the skill to one that is compatible with Numenera - see the module attached at the bottom of this post.

To add new skills (or change the current ones) you need to edit the common.xml file in 2 places:

lists.skills.index - this is the section where the complete list of skills is created - basically a long list of <listlink> links and the name of the skill. The <recordname> portion of the <linklist> points to the reference.skill.xxxxx section of the same module to get the full skill data.
reference.skills - this is where the detailed info regarding each skill is stored - it is linked from the linklist.recordname value in the index list in #1.

Just copy/paste the appraise example entry from the 2 sections listed above and change the name, recordname link and xml <appraise> tag to the new name of your skill and change the <text> in the detailed entry to be what you want - this is FG formatted text, more info in the "Internal Representation" section here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/refdoc/formattedtextcontrol.xcp

[Alydar]

You know what is so very sad? When I read your post, Trenloe, it's almost like reading a foreign language. I have no idea what you are even talking about.

However, since you went through the trouble of doing that for me, I'm at least going to try and figure it out. I owe you that much. Honestly, I give myself a 1 in 5 chance of doing it right. But I will try.

If it turns out to be above my intelligence level to figure out, I'll just go with the Story method.

Thanks again!

[Trenloe]

However, since you went through the trouble of doing that for me, I'm at least going to try and figure it out. I owe you that much. Honestly, I give myself a 1 in 5 chance of doing it right. But I will try.
Download Notepad+ (free) and install the XML plugin - this will help you with the XML editing - and it has an XML syntax checker (very handy). https://notepad-plus-plus.org/

[Alydar]

OK. I figured out the following (don't laugh, it is a miracle I got this far):

1. I was able to save your example file in the correct folder.
2. I was able to bring up FG and load the skill list module.
3. I enabled the module and looked at the 3 skills you put in.
4. I was able to bring it into my main campaign and access it.

5. I downloaded notepad++ and installed it.
6. I found the plugin called XML tools and installed it.
7. I opened your file with notepad++.
8. I'm looking at a bunch of nonsense.... I think maybe I still need to "turn it into xml" or something. Haven't figured that out yet.

That's where I am so far. I know, I know. Trust me... for me, that's doing really good.

[damned]

Ok steps 1-6 are good.
Step 7 - extract all the files (I suggest you use 7zip as it will recognise .mod, .pak and other FG file formats as zip files without you having to change extensions) into \Numenera Example Skills folder
Step 8 - open common.xml - lines 18-36 are the Appraise skill. Duplicate these and update the text content as required. Make sure you have open and close tags (eg <appraise> </appraise> for everything)


<reference static="true">
<skills>
<appraise>
<name type="string">Appraise</name>
<text type="formattedtext">
<p><b>Check: </b> You can appraise common or well-known objects with a DC 12 Appraise check. Failure means that you estimate the value at 50% to 150% (2d6+3 times 10%,) of its actual value.</p><p>Appraising a rare or exotic item requires a successful check against DC 15, 20, or higher. If the check is successful, you estimate the value correctly; failure means you cannot estimate the item's value.</p><p>A magnifying glass gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Appraise checks involving any item that is small or highly detailed, such as a gem. A merchant's scale gives you a +2 circumstance bonus on Appraise checks involving any items that are valued by weight, including anything made of precious metals.</p><p>These bonuses stack.</p>

<p><b>Action: </b>
Appraising an item takes 1 minute (ten consecutive full-round actions).</p>
<p><b>Try again: </b>
No. You cannot try again on the same object, regardless of success.</p>
<p><b>Special: </b>
A dwarf gets a +2 racial bonus on Appraise checks that are related to stone or metal items because dwarves are familiar with valuable items of all kinds (especially those made of stone or metal).The master of a raven familiar gains a +3 bonus on Appraise checks.A character with the Diligent feat gets a +2 bonus on Appraise checks.</p>
<p><b>Synergy: </b>
If you have 5 ranks in any Craft skill, you gain a +2 bonus on Appraise checks related to items made with that Craft skill.</p>
<p><b>Untrained: </b>
For common items, failure on an untrained check means no estimate. For rare items, success means an estimate of 50% to 150% (2d6+3 times 10%).</p>
</text>
</appraise>

step 9 - edit the List of skills - copy lines 197-203 (these will be different once you add another skill in) and duplicate and update the bits in bold below:


<appraise>
<listlink type="windowreference">
<class>referencetext</class>
<recordname>reference.skills.appraise@Numenera Example Skills</recordname>
</listlink>
<name type="string">Appraise</name>
</appraise>


step 10 - When finished - you need to zip up all the CONTENTS of that folder - but NOT THE FOLDER ITSELF. Make sure its a ZIP and not a .7z or other compression format. Then rename the .zip file as .mod
step 11 - put it back in Modules and reload Fantasy Grounds! dont have duplicate versions in there.

[Alydar]

OK. I will try this over the next few days and report back. I'm cautiously excited, as I think I actually understand what you guys are teaching me.

We'll see.

And not to repeat myself over and over - but I am extremely grateful for how patient and willing to teach you guys are. My degrees are in Biology and Environmental Science. To go along with that, I think I am equivalent to a 7 year old when it comes to anything even remotely related to coding or computer "stuff". In short: Do not be afraid to be painfully obvious when explaining how to do things. I promise you it will not offend me.

Thanks again!

[Trenloe]

I suggest you use 7zip as it will recognise .mod, .pak and other FG file formats as zip files without you having to change extensions.

Be careful using 7zip - especially if you use it to ZIP back up your extension - Fantasy Grounds will not recognise an extension zipped back up using the 7zip native format, you have to make sure it is the normal ZIP format.

[damned]

Be careful using 7zip - especially if you use it to ZIP back up your extension - Fantasy Grounds will not recognise an extension zipped back up using the 7zip native format, you have to make sure it is the normal ZIP format.

Thatd be step 10 :)



step 10 - When finished - you need to zip up all the CONTENTS of that folder - but NOT THE FOLDER ITSELF. Make sure its a ZIP and not a .7z or other compression format. Then rename the .zip file as .mod

[Trenloe]

Thatd be step 10 :)
Ah right, you needed a TL;DR at the top as that post was too long. ;)

[Alydar]

OK.

Step 7 is complete. No issues.

Step 8: I'm confused. I understand that "appraise" is lines 18-36. When copying and pasting over and over again and substituting new skills I want to add, are lines 18&19 necessary, or just 20-36?


<reference static="true">
<skills>


In other words, when I look at Trenloe's example, I'm seeing him go directly from <appraise> to <balance> without lines 18&19 repeated. I'm a little confused as to what I'm missing.

[Alydar]

You know what... I think I understand it. Lines 18&19 are not repeated, other then to "close" them with </skills> and </reference> at the end of my skill listings.

Am I interpreting that correctly?

[damned]

you got it right.
i mistyped when i wrote 18-36 - it should only be 20-36.
if you click on the actual text of 18 or 19 you will see a red line appear to the left - follow that line to the end and you will see the closing tag for that opening tag... which is what you described above.

it sounds like you are on the right track.

[Alydar]

Yep. I'm understanding it. Mostly thanks to your guys patience and that xml is really not that difficult it would seem. I'll keep plugging away and come back when I get to step 10 - which sounds like it may lose me. We'll see.

Edit to add: That little red line thing is awesome! Love that! Thanks for pointing that out.