Savage Worlds 4.0 - ready for you to test !

[phantomwhale]

All,

Over the last few months, Ikael, Doswelk and myself have been working hard to upgrade Savage Worlds ruleset to version 4.0, along with all the published extensions.

So what to expect ?

The high level description is firstly the ruleset has been built on top of "CoreRPG". This is the beating heart of almost all the Smiteworks rulesets, and contains many of the powerful features user's have come to expect from all Fantasy Grounds rulesets. Savage Worlds had gone off and done it's "won thing" for a while now, which whislt good for users, meant there was quite a bit of effort bringing it back in line.

But this now means as Smiteworks provide more core, common functions to all their rulesets, Savage Worlds will now get these for free as well. But that's not all, there are plenty of extra features from Ikael's extensions now bought directly into the ruleset, which should make your Savage Worlds experience smoother and easier without the need to add extra extensions into the mix.

Full change log is below

So how can I get it ?

Option 1: wait a bit. Probably a month or two, whilst we get people playtesting it and teasing out any bugs. We (the developers) have kicked the tyres a bit (a LOT !) but nothing beats more people properly using it for games, telling us when those unlikely, unexpected things have occurred and what failed to happen. So wait, and eventually Fantasy Grounds updater will push the ruleset into your arms.

Option 2: help us play test ! The ruleset and extensions are pretty darn stable, so we'd expect pretty smooth experience, with only corner-case bugs, nothing that should ruin your regular game though. To do this, go to your updater settings and select the TEST channel. This should give you Savage Worlds 4.0 (now just called SavageWorlds - the old version was called SavageWorlds3 in your campaign management screen).

Now, when you load any EXISTING Savage Worlds campaigns, you should get a popup menu as you load the campaign asking if you want to convert to the new Savage Worlds 4.0 campaign. Saying "no" will load you up in the current version 3, and nothing will have changed. But saying "yes" will save a copy of your data (we care about your data !) and then reload the campaign ready for Savage Worlds 4.0

After that... just play ! Please do report any bugs either on this thread or a new one. Any odd errors you see in the console (if it pops up), and behaviour your find confusing or any graphics that are broken (NOTE: we are aware of issue with the Sci-fi and Fantasy "skins" at the moment - these are minor, and should be fixed soon). Aki, Kevin or myself should be on hand to triage them, work out what's broken (if anything) and push out fixes.

Hopefully that covers it all for now ! Please play test if you can - the more the merrier, and you'll get those cool features faster ! And you'll also help us get this into LIVE sooner rather than later, which helps everyone out that little bit.

Note: if your having problems updating, do check if Savage Worlds is in your list of products in the updater, and if not login into the tool and refresh, or contact [email protected] if they still do not appear. Smiteworks manage who has bought what, so are the only ones who can fix this issue, which seems to come up a few times every release.

Regards,
Ben (-PW-)

[phantomwhale]

Oh, and the wishlist (see my signature) has been cleaned up too ! Wow, down to under a page again :)

[Ikael]

New in Savage Worlds 4.0


[CoreRPG] SavageWorlds ruleset is build on top of CoreRPG
[Feature] Support for Rollable tables
[Feature] Support for Calendar
[Feature] Support for Parcel sheet
[Feature] Support for Party sheet
[Feature] Improved story, image, encounter, item, note, tokenbag, modifier, effects and option preference features
[Feature] Any trait die can be adjusted by +2 to -2 steps with new menu option
[Feature] Show bennies on PC portraits. New preference option is provided to change visibility
[Feature] Show power points on PC portraits. New preference option is provided to change visibility
[Feature] Show wounds and shaken/incapacitated status on PC portraits. New preference option is provided to change visibility
[Feature] Show parry and toughness on PC portraits. New preference option is provided to change visibility
[Feature] Race links can be dragged and dropped into character sheet's race field
[Feature] Details can be added to skills, edge, hindrance, power and allies created in character sheet
[Feature] Weapon damage is updated automatically when attributes change, this can be changed with new option
[Feature] Any attribute (in addition to STR) can be used to defined weapon's damage. Use three first letters of attribute to use them
[Feature] If ?-character is assigned after STR-notation in weapon damage minimum strength requirements are ignored when calculating damage
[Feature] !-character can be assigned after attribute-notation in weapon damage to increase given attribute by one die-type for damage calculation purposes
[Feature] Minimum strength penalties for ranged weapons are included automatically into weapons when updating weapon damage
[Feature] If Charisma is assigned to as modifier to any trait it's modifier will be updated whenever Charisma value changes
[Feature] New way to define derived stat values: Modifiers can be assigned for derived stats (right click -> modifiers, or double-click) and derived stats are updated automatically. This can be changed with new option
[Feature] Ally's token is displayed next to name in ally list
[Feature] Weapon details can be changed for sub-attacks
[Feature] Embedded field for inputing mood is displayed below chat-entry. This can be changed with new option
[Feature] Language and mood selections are identity-based
[Feature] GM bennies can be setup with new right click menu option in tools
[Feature] Friend-or-foe icons are used for NPC when they speak in chat. This can be changed with new option
[Feature] Ally's name changes in CT when updated in character sheet
[Feature] Only Wild Card NPCs see their bennies in CT
[Feature] Active combatant is highlighted in CT. Highlighing background color depends on combatant's friend-foe status
[Feature] Active NPC combatant's attack & damage lines and effects are automatically expanded/shown
[Feature] Active combatant's targets are highlighted in CT with bluish background color. This replaces previous PC portrait next to targeted combatant
[Feature] Targeted combatant's defense and effects are automatically expanded/shown
[Feature] Map targeting tools are synched with CT. For instance group targeting, targeting all friends or enemies or clearning all targetings
[Feature] Option to decide when effect's duration is processed. Default value is "caster's turn" as per SW rules, another option is "target's turn"e
[Feature] Effect with duration of zero doesn't expire, but can be manually deleted
[Feature] Effects can be toggled to be maintainable. Maintainable effects will notify when they are about to expire
[Feature] In addition to dropping effects into CT effects list they can be dropped on CT entry's name or on toggle-effects icon to apply them
[Feature] Effects can be dragged from CT entries and dropped to another entry to replicate entry. This is useful when casting power on several targets
[Feature] Maintainable effects display plus icon which can be clicked to increase duration by one
[Feature] When effect's caster is removed from CT, all his effects are removed from other combatants as well
[Feature] When double clicking token in CT entry, map is opened and centered to that token
[Feature] When holding CTRL down and clicking token in CT entry, that token becomes targeted by active combatant
[Feature] Active combatant can quickly target opponents by just holding CTRL down and clicking targets
[Feature] When double clicking token on map, the corresponding sheet is opened
[Feature] At the end of round, notify if any combatant is still on hold
[Feature] To quickly duplicate NPC in CT, hold ALT down and click its group box
[Feature] To quickly delete whole CT group hold ALT down and remove one entry
[Feature] CT entries can be moved to or away from groups by dragging from their link icon. To duplicate CT entry, hold ALT down and drag-and-drop from link
[Feature] Combatant's Shaken and Incapaciated statuses are highlighted in chat when it's his/her turn
[Feature] Wild Card NPCs get their bennies automatially when added to CT
[Feature] Show effects on minitracker. This can be changed with new option
[Feature] Minitracker shows "On Hold" button when it's player's or his ally's turn. The button can be used to go On Hold and give turn to next combatant
[Feature] On hold player can interrupt by double-clicking On Hold card. This will send nofitication to chat and remove On Hold status
[Feature] On Hold status is indicated better by different action card. If combatant is On Hold the whole turn, s/he will be on top the next turn
[Feature] When player clicks "End Turn" button the turn switches to next combatant automatically
[Feature] New CT menu option: Clear all targets
[Feature] CT activates active combatant's identity
[Feature] Vehicles can be dragged and dropped into CT for initiative and targeting purposes. In addition vehicle's weapon damages can be rolled from CT

[Ikael]

New in Savage Worlds v4.0 (continues)


[Feature] Support for Skill Specialization setting rule. New preference option added to manage this. When enabled, specializations can be added to skills
[Feature] Support for No Power Points setting rule. New preference option added to manage this. When enabled, power points are not displayed
[Feature] Support for Joker's Wild setting rule. New preference option added to manage this
[Feature] Action Cards can be dragged from card deck tool and from hand and dropped to PC portrait, chat, card hand, combat tracker or to chase tracker
[Feature] Action Cards can be removed individually from card hand with right click menu
[Feature] Token cards can put in play by dragging and dropping them where other action cards can be dropped
[Feature] Armor and Weapons can be created as part of campaign
[Feature] Targeting lines on map are displayed for active combatant
[Feature] Sub-list buttons in Items list are draggable and can be dropped to hotkeys
[Feature] NPC and Vehicle sheets support space and reach
[Feature] Combatant's space & reach is taken account when applying combat encounter
[Feature] Power Points are only visible if character has selected Arcane Background
[Feature] Items can be marked as unidentified/identified for playres. New preference option is provided to manage this
[Feature] Items, Armors, Weapons and Vehicles can be dragged and dropped on PC Portrait to give item to character. Host must hold ALT down to perform this
[Feature] Support for dragging and dropping Items, Armors, Weapons and Vehicles from Party Sheet into PC and Ally sheet
[Feature] Support for dragging and dropping Items, Armors, Weapons and Vehicles from PC and Ally sheet into Party Sheet
[Feature] Party allies section in Party Sheet can be used to store and share common NPC allies who are not with PCs at the moment
[Feature] NPCs can be dragged and dropped on PC Portrait to assign ally to character. Host must hold ALT down to perform this
[Feature] Coins can be recorded to PC sheet as currency
[Feature] Raise calculator tool. New preference option is provided to manage it
[Feature] Double-click or middle-mouse click any dervied stat on CT or in NPC sheet to set that number into Raise Calculator
[Feature] Vehicle sheet support drag-and-droppable weapons
[Feature] Vehicle sheet's weapon details can be displayed by clicking the link icon on right side of the weapon
[Feature] Auto-apply Joker bonus to trait and damage rolls. New preference option is provided to manage it
[Feature] Armor stat is displayed next to Toughness in PC sheet/minisheet. New preference option is provided to manage it
[Feature] Weapon sheet has own field for Armor Piercing
[Feature] Damage string and AP value can be declared for any damage dices by right clicking on it and selecting EDIT -> SETUP (feature especially for Powers)
[Feature] AP value is displayed next to damage dices
[Feature] Hold Shift down to transfer/move all items from Character sheet or Party Sheet inventory
[Feature] Auto-apply damage results preference options. If set to ON then any damage results are automatically added to target. If set to Confirm then the damage result is displayed next to CT entry
[Feature] Drag and drop any trait/damage roll or effect on CT entry to apply it to given entry
[Feature] Effectlist's button can be used to apply given effect to currently active combatant entry or to his/her targeted entries
[Feature] Quick delete button displayed next to name in CT when combatant has incapacitated status
[Feature] Hit and damage detection. Drop any trait or damage dices on tokens on map or target tokens and hold CTRL down while making the roll to target it against given opponents
[Feature] Three new damage adjustment fields below Damage Bonus. These fields can be used to adjust next targeted damage roll
[Feature] New targeting toggle icon next to modifierstack. This toggle can be used to enable/disable targeting feature for next roll
[Bug] Minisheet's attack list could not display more than few attacks
[Bug] When dragging full count of PC inventory item their count get increased. As a fix, hold ALT down instead of CTRL
[Bug] Wound, fatigue and encumbrance penalties were not included into roll made from Hotkeys
[Deprecated] Table slashcommands no longer supported, use rollabel tables instead

[Ikael]

I had to move the full changelog here as two separate posts because it was too massive to be a single post

[Lonewolf]

Where do we start noting down the play test results?

I have noticed some odd behavior when the Rippers desktop theme is being used. The show armor modifier does not appear on the character sheets. Also noted Status can only be changed by adding new modifier each time to refresh the screen.

These problems are tied to the theme modifying the standard character sheet

[Ikael]

Where do we start noting down the play test results?

I have noticed some odd behavior when the Rippers desktop theme is being used. The show armor modifier does not appear on the character sheets. Also noted Status can only be changed by adding new modifier each time to refresh the screen.

These problems are tied to the theme modifying the standard character sheet

Thanks for the report. I had done small update to Rippers extension (Rippers Extension version 2.2 Build 2) which includes fix for the show armor modifier. Status works the same way as derived stats so if you have enabled "Auto-update Derived stats" preference then you can alter status by double clicking the value to open modifier window where you can type status value as modifiers. The fixed version is going to be available in test mode after Smite Works pushes those changes in.

This thread is good place to write your play testing results. If you find an issue, please use /version slash command in FG can copy-paste its output into your message so we will know what version you are using. If that output does not include the extension you're using please use /ext slash command and include that's output as well. /version slash command provides little bit more detailed information but it requires that developers have registered the extension manually in their code.

[allcode]

Awesome update! Only real issue I've found so far is with the Rippers Setting. When I click on "Encounters" in the Rippers GM Guide (Library) I get the following error in the console:
Runtime Error: desktop: Unable to create window with invalid class (.. : library.rippersgm.entries.chapter_0600@Rippers GM Guide)

Willing to run any tests debugging, etc. needed to help out.

[Dershem]

So when attempting to create a character I did create new and got the following...

Script Error: [string "charsheet/scripts/template_dermodbox.lua"]:117: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got nil)
Script Error: [string "charsheet/scripts/template_dermodbox.lua"]:117: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got nil)
Script Error: [string "charsheet/scripts/template_dermodbox.lua"]:117: bad argument #1 to 'pairs' (table expected, got nil)
Ruleset Warning: Could not load script file (Extension: FGRandom) (scripts/stringcontrolX.lua)
Ruleset Warning: Could not load script file (scripts/stringcontrolX.lua)
Ruleset Warning: Could not load script file (Extension: FGRandom) (scripts/stringcontrolX.lua)
Ruleset Warning: Could not load script file (scripts/stringcontrolX.lua)
Ruleset Warning: Could not load script file (Extension: FGRandom) (scripts/stringcontrolX.lua)
Ruleset Warning: Could not load script file (scripts/stringcontrolX.lua)
Ruleset Warning: Could not load script file (Extension: FGRandom) (scripts/stringcontrolX.lua)
Ruleset Warning: Could not load script file (scripts/stringcontrolX.lua)

[damned]

Any extensions loaded?

[Dershem]

yep it was extensions, not updated...

[Ikael]

yep it was extensions, not updated...

FGRandom extension is not compatible with SW4. There are way too many the same name scripts and templates which break compatibility. It could be updated to be more ruleset friendly, but I don't know if original developer is up to it.

[Monkeyboy]

We have run three sessions and nothing to report other then we love it. Thanks for the great product.

[damned]

Nice one Monkeyboy.
oh and to Ikael and Phantomwhale too!
and anyone else involved....

[Nicohdemus]

Posted this on another thread but maybe better here. We've been running SW4 on Rippers and Deadlands. Rippers theme seems to not work with SW4 but modules all work. Deadlands seems great except the Fate Chips seem to have an issue...

Whenever anyone tries to use a Fate Chip I get a Console popup with the following error...

Script Error: [string "desktop/scripts/drophandler_fatechip.lua"]:19: findNode: Invalid parameter 1

and on the Chat window we see something like...

node=charsheet.id-00002.fatechips.blue,colour=blue

and the chip isn't removed from the player's char sheet.

But in all the update is great!

[phantomwhale]

Oh - I have that other thread open at home to reply to tonight :)

I pushed the fix to Smiteworks last night, so hopefully they'll have it in the test channel ASAP - you might be the first person testing Deadlands in anger, so let us know if there is anything else wrong there !

[Indarien]

This update looks awesome and I really look forward to it. Thanks for your support and efforts here - one of the best rulesets in the system looks like it is getting drastically better. Now I just need to round up the gang and start a new Savage Worlds game!

[Nicohdemus]

OK, so in Sundered Skies I am trying to make an NPC (Personalities). I cannot drag weapons onto the char sheet so I created them manually and entered all the stats. But if I double click on it to roll it's Damage I get a pop-up that says...

Script Error: [string "desktop/scripts/modifierstack.lua"]353: attempt to index field 'targeting' (a nil value)


Will that only work if I have a target set? Haven't tried that. But still the Console pop-up isn't good. Also, not sure why I can't drag and drop weapons onto NPC's.

additional note:

hmmm... I also just noticed that any die on the NPC char sheet that I double click on gives me the console pop-up. Dragging and dropping the dice from the char sheet also gives the same pop-up.

Edit:

Ok, the pop-up isn't just on NPC's. It's on all character sheets when i try to use any dice (dragging or clicking). I can use bennies and adventure cards but not any dice.

[Nicohdemus]

OK. I found out it was every ruleset was having issues with pulling dice from char sheets. But I narrowed it down. I only get the popup when I have the Enhanced Modifiers extensions loaded. I took them out and everything works like normal again.

[Ikael]

OK. I found out it was every ruleset was having issues with pulling dice from char sheets. But I narrowed it down. I only get the popup when I have the Enhanced Modifiers extensions loaded. I took them out and everything works like normal again.

The error you mentioned is from CoreRPG 3.10, and fix was introduced in SW4 ruleset. I believe the fix is not yet available in test mode, but should be soon. The fix was also did partially in the latest Enhanced Effects extension, but it requires the latest SW4 build as well it seems. Hopefully SmiteWorks pushes the updated SW4 ruleset to test mode soon.

[Ikael]

Posted this on another thread but maybe better here. We've been running SW4 on Rippers and Deadlands. Rippers theme seems to not work with SW4 but modules all work. Deadlands seems great except the Fate Chips seem to have an issue...

Whenever anyone tries to use a Fate Chip I get a Console popup with the following error...

Script Error: [string "desktop/scripts/drophandler_fatechip.lua"]:19: findNode: Invalid parameter 1

and on the Chat window we see something like...

node=charsheet.id-00002.fatechips.blue,colour=blue

and the chip isn't removed from the player's char sheet.

But in all the update is great!

How is Rippers ext not working for SW4? I have done patching for our long time ago so I suspected it works fine.

[Mask_of_winter]

Rippers worked fine in our game. Unless his Rippers was not registered and did not update when he switched to Test mode.

[Nicohdemus]

After the latest update that apparently got pushed to Test last night the Fate Chips are working normally in Deadlands now. Thanks!

[Lonewolf]

How is Rippers ext not working for SW4? I have done patching for our long time ago so I suspected it works fine.

Rippers worked fine in our game. Unless his Rippers was not registered and did not update when he switched to Test mode.

You are correct. I can indeed confirm that Rippers is fine. I tested this and reported the results a while back. Minor problems where very quickly fixed.

What I will say to everyone is to be very careful with how you load extensions. Remember that some extensions have two versions. Please load the correct one for testing with rules set version 4. If anyone is seeing bugs use the /version command in the chat window. You can then copy the version report into a note. Which can then be posted here. Like this.

Savage Worlds Deluxe version 4.0.0 (Build 12)
SW NPC Maker version 0.8 (Build 7)
Horror Companion Extension version 1.0 (Build 1)
Rippers Extension version 2.2 (Build 2)
Adventure Deck version 1.4.0 (Build 1)
SW Enhanced Adventure Deck version 0.3 (Build 2)
SW Enhanced Desktop version 1.4 (Build 5)
SW Enhanced Library version 1.4 (Build 6)

This puts any bug report into context. We can see what is being loaded and what needs updated. It also allows the recreation of the exact conditions that caused a bug to happen if it needs further investigation.

[kavaliro]

When I hover over an item in the Powers List, it underlines. But when I mouse out, it continues to be underlined. As far as I can tell, this is the only list that is behaving that way.

[Mask_of_winter]

Is Deadlands Reloaded ready for v4 yet? I only see an extension for SW3.

[Monkeyboy]

Just wanted to say that we are still not finding any issues. In fact it is more stable and has quicker load times for maps. we haven't been using any extensions yet, but think its a great improvment. thanks again.

[Ikael]

Is Deadlands Reloaded ready for v4 yet? I only see an extension for SW3.

Deadlands Reloaded has been one of the first products made compatible. I have it and can confirm that it works ok for SW4.

[Ikael]

When I hover over an item in the Powers List, it underlines. But when I mouse out, it continues to be underlined. As far as I can tell, this is the only list that is behaving that way.

Thanks for report, I have made fix for this

[Ikael]

Just wanted to say that we are still not finding any issues. In fact it is more stable and has quicker load times for maps. we haven't been using any extensions yet, but think its a great improvment. thanks again.

Great to hear!

[Mask_of_winter]

Deadlands Reloaded has been one of the first products made compatible. I have it and can confirm that it works ok for SW4.
I purchased that one on Rpgnow. I'm going to contact Doug and ask him to check if it's been attached to my account on FG.

[Ikael]

I purchased that one on Rpgnow. I'm going to contact Doug and ask him to check if it's been attached to my account on FG.
I would recommend going to FG settings, updating your credentials and making sure you see all products you have bought and update FG again. I have sometimes noticed that this helps if I don't get products I own

[Mask_of_winter]

I would recommend going to FG settings, updating your credentials and making sure you see all products you have bought and update FG again. I have sometimes noticed that this helps if I don't get products I own

Ya already tried that. It didn't work.

[chillybilly]

Silly question: Is there a way to turn OFF exploding dice in the 4.0 ruleset?

[Ikael]

Silly question: Is there a way to turn OFF exploding dice in the 4.0 ruleset?

No. But it's doable, you can create idea request for SW ruleset

[Mask_of_winter]

Silly question: Is there a way to turn OFF exploding dice in the 4.0 ruleset?

Heretic!

Seriously, just roll the dice from the set and not your character sheet. Those won't explode.

[phantomwhale]

Silly question: Is there a way to turn OFF exploding dice in the 4.0 ruleset?

Out of interest, under what scenario would you like this ability ?

[chillybilly]

Out of interest, under what scenario would you like this ability ?

I was looking for a ruleset most appropriate for a cortex plus game. There really isn't one in FG because the only ruleset with dice pools is Star Wars (Edge of Empire) and those dice don't have numbers on their face. It's not a big deal (hence why I didn't add it to the wish list) because there is a work around (though clunky). I sure wish I knew how to program though!

[Nilaihah]

EDIT: Nevermind!

[kavaliro]

When I drop a melee weapon on a character sheet, it sets the Strength die to match the character's Strength. This is correct. But it also sets the weapon's damage die to match the character's Strength, unless the character's Strength is higher than the damage die. This is incorrect. Maybe there are some settings that use such a rule, but it isn't canon Core Rules--or if it is, no one seems to have heard of it and it isn't in the section on damage. How do I shut that off? How do I make it not the default?

[phantomwhale]

When I drop a melee weapon on a character sheet, it sets the Strength die to match the character's Strength. This is correct. But it also sets the weapon's damage die to match the character's Strength, unless the character's Strength is higher than the damage die. This is incorrect. Maybe there are some settings that use such a rule, but it isn't canon Core Rules--or if it is, no one seems to have heard of it and it isn't in the section on damage. How do I shut that off? How do I make it not the default?

I think I pushed back on this when Aki told me about it too! I thought they had taken it out of the deluxe edition (having been positive it WAS in the previous explorers edition) when I could no longer find it.

It is actually still in the core rules, but in the Gear section (chapter 2, page 48) rather then the Damage section (chapter 3), which also threw me.



Minimum Strength: A character whose Strength is lower than the weapon die can use the weapon, but there are penalties. First, the weapon die can’t be higher than his Strength die. So if a scrawny kid (d4 Str) picks up a long sword (d8), he rolls 2d4 damage, not d4+d8. A brawny hero with Str d10 rolls d10+d8 when using the same long sword.

Second, if the Strength die isn’t at least equal to the weapon die, the attacker doesn’t get any of the weapon’s inherent bonuses, such as +1 Parry or Reach. He still retains any penalties, however (like –1 Parry).

[damned]

I was looking for a ruleset most appropriate for a cortex plus game. There really isn't one in FG because the only ruleset with dice pools is Star Wars (Edge of Empire) and those dice don't have numbers on their face. It's not a big deal (hence why I didn't add it to the wish list) because there is a work around (though clunky). I sure wish I knew how to program though!

Chillybilly - what are you trying to do with Dice Pools?
You can manually roll any combination of dice and modifiers with the /die command eg /die 2d6+1d10-2

Another option is to use psicodelix's great CoreRPG Improved Charsheet extension with CoreRPG
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22683-CoreRPG-Improved-Charsheet

[kavaliro]

I think I pushed back on this when Aki told me about it too! I thought they had taken it out of the deluxe edition (having been positive it WAS in the previous explorers edition) when I could no longer find it.

It is actually still in the core rules, but in the Gear section (chapter 2, page 48) rather then the Damage section (chapter 3), which also threw me.
Thank you for the info! I disagree with that rule entirely, and it's location in the rules--but you're right, it's there!

[chillybilly]

Chillybilly - what are you trying to do with Dice Pools?
You can manually roll any combination of dice and modifiers with the /die command eg /die 2d6+1d10-2

Another option is to use psicodelix's great CoreRPG Improved Charsheet extension with CoreRPG
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22683-CoreRPG-Improved-Charsheet

Looking for something to play a cortex plus game. Ends up the group has fallen in love with Star Wars Edge of Empire, which has a very good ruleset.

[Mask_of_winter]

Thank you for the info! I disagree with that rule entirely, and it's location in the rules--but you're right, it's there!

Under options, turn off "Auto Update Weapon Damage" if you want to houserule it.

[Doswelk]

Thank you for the info! I disagree with that rule entirely, and it's location in the rules--but you're right, it's there!
In my (still only one :( ) YouTube SW 4 Fantasy Grounds Video I cover how you can override this for individual items (e.g. Kraken Bone sword which always has Str+d10 damage)

And has already been pointed out you can switch off this option completely.

[kavaliro]

In my (still only one :( ) YouTube SW 4 Fantasy Grounds Video I cover how you can override this for individual items (e.g. Kraken Bone sword which always has Str+d10 damage)

And has already been pointed out you can switch off this option completely.

Cool, I will look for that.

My problem with the rule is that if you use it, a knife does the same damage as a katana unless it is wielded by a bodybuilder. That's as un-fun as it is inaccurate. It isn't the strength of the wielder for most weapons, it's the leverage and finesse. Strength means something, but far, far less than this rule imposes.

I realize that for the sake of simplicity all melee weapons damage is based on strength, but it's overdone with this rule in place. And it doesn't matter as much in, say, ETU as it does in a fantasy setting, but it does matter.

I guess I'll set up my own weapons list that overrides the rule using the info from your video.

[Mask_of_winter]

Cool, I will look for that.

My problem with the rule is that if you use it, a knife does the same damage as a katana unless it is wielded by a bodybuilder. That's as un-fun as it is inaccurate. It isn't the strength of the wielder for most weapons, it's the leverage and finesse. Strength means something, but far, far less than this rule imposes.

I realize that for the sake of simplicity all melee weapons damage is based on strength, but it's overdone with this rule in place. And it doesn't matter as much in, say, ETU as it does in a fantasy setting, but it does matter.

I guess I'll set up my own weapons list that overrides the rule using the info from your video.

If you're looking for simulation and realism, you might be using the wrong rule system :)

A knife wouldn't do the same damage as a katana. It would do 2d4+2 for a wielder with d4 Str https://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30186&highlight=weapon+damage

Without this rule, there aren't many reasons why anybody would want/have to use a dagger. Remember also that with a d4 in Strength your weight limit is 20lbs. Not enough to wear armor and a heavy weapon. Unless of course you want to house rule that as well. Some settings also have Edges where other Attributes will determine melee damage. Jalizar, city of thieves for Beasts & Barbarians has such an Edge.

These rules were made to keep balance in the system. I suggest you head over to the PEG forums and share your thoughts on the matter. I'm sure you'll get some very interesting comments :) Ask Clint, he'll explain to you why better than I can.

[kavaliro]

If you're looking for simulation and realism, you might be using the wrong rule system :)

Yeah, true. :) But on the other hand, I don't expect it to be purely arbitrary, either.


A knife wouldn't do the same damage as a katana. It would do 2d4+2 for a wielder with d4 Str https://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30186&highlight=weapon+damage

Dagger at Str d4: 2d4.
Longsword at Str d4: 2d4.

So Katana was a bad example, perhaps. I was at work and couldn't remember the damage of it. But there is no honking way that a dagger is going to have the same damage potential as a longsword, any anyone's hands. There are reasons for carrying a dagger. But it's not a longsword.


Without this rule, there aren't many reasons why anybody would want/have to use a dagger. Remember also that with a d4 in Strength your weight limit is 20lbs. Not enough to wear armor and a heavy weapon. Unless of course you want to house rule that as well. Some settings also have Edges where other Attributes will determine melee damage. Jalizar, city of thieves for Beasts & Barbarians has such an Edge.

I don't see the correlation. What I do see is that without this rule, no one feels compelled to dump into Strength just because of combat. Carrying capacity aside, there are lots of checks that are strength-based. I don't see strength as terribly important for combat damage unless you are Sir Bearington. ;) But combat damage isn't accurately strength based for most weapons. Slashing/piercing weapons like swords, daggers, and are generally finesse weapons. Damage should be Agility based. Clubs, hammers, and axes; those are strength based.

Also: You'd have a problem with a d4 Strength wearing armor but not with a dagger and a sword doing equal damage in that character's hands. That makes no sense to me. If you're gonna quibble about one, you should quibble about the other.


These rules were made to keep balance in the system. I suggest you head over to the PEG forums and share your thoughts on the matter. I'm sure you'll get some very interesting comments :) Ask Clint, he'll explain to you why better than I can.

Yeah, I've heard that they are very prickly over even a hint of criticism for their published materials. That's a low-down, dirty shame. "Because Clint (or whoever) says so," is not a sufficient answer as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a Kool-Aid drinker. I'm a tinkerer. I'm going to have house rules. I'm going to take the whole thing apart and see how and why it ticks. I'm going to keep the bits that are right, and fix the bits that are hosed. I'm not out to change the whole world, here. Just my own sector of it.

It's a great system. I love it. But at the same time, it can be better. This is one of those things that can be fixed very easily without sacrificing Fast, Furious, or Fun.

[Mask_of_winter]

Once in your hands it's nobody's game but yours :)

I know I'd love to have Agility determine weapon damage. I'd make Str my dump stat, boost Agi and Fighting at d10, Add Acrobat Edge at 0XP and wade my way through hordes of Extras with a Parry of 8, d10 Fighting and d10+d8 damage with a longsword. The age of the big brute Fighters would come to an end! muahahaha

[Hector Trelane]

I played in a game recently that used 4.0, my first exposure to the new ruleset. Impressive and fun to use! When can we anticipate testing will conclude and this will be official?

Yes, my question is essentially, "Are we there yet?" ... ;-)

[Mask_of_winter]

Looks like there was an update to the SW 4 pak in the test channel, or am I wrong? If there was one, what was it for?

[phantomwhale]

Tiny bug fixes ! Another one is coming soon too (we were getting a few harmless console errors if you toggle certain preferences at certain times).

We will go live when the next version of CoreRPG (v3.10) goes live - in the next few days, I believe.

[phantomwhale]

I'm pushing an update to change the dialog text you'll get when loading a SavageWorlds v3 campaign once v4 goes live...

https://i.imgur.com/zEoZFqv.jpg

Hopefully people will click the OK button there, and move them onto the latest, greatest version. Otherwise there will be a mandatory upgrade happening with v4.1 for anyone straggling.