Token scaling without a grid

[Coanunn]

My question is when playing grid-less is there a way to set the token scale for all tokens? I've tried the lock token scale but it never seems to affect "all" tokens and instead I spend a ton of time adjusting each token individually. I HATE grids. I hate them with the passion of a 1000 super novas! Players stop playing an RPG and start playing a turn based tactics game when ever there is a grid involved and I would LOVE the ability to set a token default token scale without needing a bloody grid!

[Trenloe]

Lock token scale (make sure you select "lock token scale" and not just "lock tokens" - these are two different things). It works find without a grid. Place one of your tokens on the map, zoom the map so the token is the right size, then right-click on the token and select "lock token scale". Thereafter, each token added to the map will be scaled relevant to the pixel size of the token you used to lock the scale. If all of your tokens are the same pixel size, then they will appear all at the same size no matter if you zoom in or out (which would usually change the token size if the scale wasn't locked). If your tokens are not the correct pixel dimensions for a specific size, then you're going to have to either do a one-off resize outside of Fantasy Grounds or manually resize them each time you add them to a map. A lot of people use 25x25 (or 32x32) for a small creature, 50x50 (or 64x64) for a medium creature, 100x100 (or 128x128) for a large creature, etc.. Taking the time to decide on a good pixel size for your tokens and sticking to it will ease a lot of your token woes. All without any grid in sight! :)

[Griogre]

You really need to have you tokens to the same scale if you want to avoid this type of issue and play without a grid. Pick the scale for a medium size creature and resize everything else to match that scale. If you are going to play gridless then that scale does need to be fairly small if you want to keep your map size reasonable.

[Coanunn]

No, the issue was I was resizing the token and not the map. It's very anti-intuitive to have the ability to hold control and scale the token but lock token scale ignores that version of scaling the token.

[Griogre]

I think the original developers of FG though that tokens would usually be to the same scale. Individual tokens were only meant to be scaled differently because of things like animal growth, enlarge, shrink, etc. The lock token scale to the map was to allow you to place your similarly scaled tokens on either a tactical map where one map might have a 25 pixels = 5 feet and another 40 pixels = 5 feet. I just want to make sure you know you don't need a grid to lock token scale to a map. You only need the grid if you tokens are different sizes, which was why I was saying its typically easier if all your tokens are scaled similarly.

[Coanunn]

Griogre, the problem is you keep assuming I'm making my own tokens with no knowledge about how to do so. Not only do I keep my tokens uniform sizes I had this problem with the token packs built in to the ruleset I'm using officially from Smiteworks. This isn't about me "making a mistake" when making my tokens but about the software offering an option to "scale token" and "lock token scale" but they are mutually exclusive. You can lock token scale, hold control and still scale the token. I definitely understand the idea that there are times a token might need to scale but having an option like "lock token scale" that IGNORES the method by which the token's scale can be modified is not intuitive.

[Trenloe]

I think there's a misunderstanding of what "lock token scale" actually does. It locks the token scale for *all* tokens on the map based off their original size and not an individually token scaling. This is why you need to zoom the map to get to a scale that is acceptable for all of the tokens you've put on the map - then you right-click on one token and select "lock token scale" which is for all tokens on the map. You can then manually scale individual tokens using CTRL+mouse-wheel. This is why lock token scale ignores an individual token scale - because it applies to all tokens on the map (and future tokens added to the map).

[Coanunn]

I think there's a misunderstanding of what "lock token scale" actually does. It locks the token scale for *all* tokens on the map based off their original size and not an individually token scaling. This is why you need to zoom the map to get to a scale that is acceptable for all of the tokens you've put on the map - then you right-click on one token and select "lock token scale" which is for all tokens on the map. You can then manually scale individual tokens using CTRL+mouse-wheel. This is why lock token scale ignores an individual token scale - because it applies to all tokens on the map (and future tokens added to the map).

I understand that, what I'm saying is it is poor interface design to have a feature called "Lock Token Scale" that neither locks the token from being scaled nor references the scale set for tokens. Instead "Lock Token Scale" actually references the aspect ratio between the token and the map image. That is poor design. I HIGHLY doubt it is Smiteworks' poor design but rather something that is a carry over but if no one ever mentions it and everyone fan boys about how it's user error then the interface never improves. The Wiki is quite large for Fantasy Grounds, rightly so due to the sheer amount of capabilities the software has, but frankly the thing that kills this software for a new user is the horrid user interface and lack of any kind of built in tutorial for all of those features. Sure a user can go look for a tutorial on youtube but that doesn't excuse poor interface design and it's something that Smiteworks should address during the Unity re-write that is currently happening. This is another case of a feature being obfuscated by old poor design and when it is pointed out the community "rallying to defend" the software rather than letting criticism help improve the software.

[Trenloe]

Err, I don't think anyone was fan-boying and saying this was user error. The two people who've taken the time to help you and explain to you much more information than just answering your original question have not blamed any of your issues on user error. I don't think I'll bother in future...

[Moon Wizard]

Thanks for input. FG is an evolving beast with multiple developers over 10 years, so we are aware of limitations. One of the strengths (highly customizable UI) is also one of the weaknesses (UI complexity).

We're working on rebuild of FG on new platform, so we'll hopefully have chance to revisit some of the UI in the process.

Cheers,
JPG

[hawkwind]

it would be nice if you could change the transparency of the grid, that they you could have the best of best worlds with the token scaling

[ddavison]

Coannun, if you have a recommended approach for how it would work, that might be helpful to us as we continue work on the next iteration of FG under Unity. When I first saw the scaling built into Fantasy Grounds as a consumer, I thought it was elegant and simple - but not intuitive. Basically, it required me to watch a video to discover the feature but once I did, I liked it. Admittedly, I always use grids.