Fantasy Grounds Unity engine

[Irondrake]

Is there a feature list or a comparison somewhere of what we can expect when the move to Unity for Fantasy Grounds is complete?

Frequently asked Questions (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?43254-Fantasy-Grounds-Unity-FAQ)

MODERATOR: Some recent general info here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22089-Fantasy-Grounds-Unity-engine&p=380067&viewfull=1#post380067


(https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22089-Fantasy-Grounds-Unity-engine&p=380067&viewfull=1#post380067)

[Moon Wizard]

Not currently.

The main push for moving to a Unity is to get FG on a better platform for making future improvements, and to pick up some enhancements from the move as well. To that end, the priority is to get the current version mostly running on Unity, and finalize roadmap once we have a better handle on Unity.

We already have identified a few subsystems that we need to change with the move ( network, graphics, dice, ...), so they may get the most attention initially.

I don't want to commit to anything specific until we are much further along with the porting and design process, since our plans will most likely be changing as we learn more.

We will post some screens as we go along, though most of what we have visually so far are proof of concept prototypes to test out specific features.

Regards,
JPG

[Irondrake]

Sounds good, thanks!

[viresanimi]

I sure hope that the Unity version allows users to make their own graphic schemes for their games. I like being creative with that.


Vires Animi

[damned]

I sure hope that the Unity version allows users to make their own graphic schemes for their games. I like being creative with that.

in what way? doesnt the current system allow that?

[viresanimi]

Yeah. It does. I was just hoping that the option would continue to be there, when changing to Unity. That's all. Expressing hope here *smile*

Vires Animi

[damned]

I asked the question on another thread about how many rulesets would still work on the Unity platform or if they would need to be completely rebuilt...
The reply was that they should all port over. So your themes etc should still work too :)

[Carthar]

Is it still worth learning Lua? Or will this new engine use another scripting language?

[Moon Wizard]

Our goal is to support the current ruleset model as much as possible to minimize disruption. This means that XML/Lua will continue to be the languages to use.

As we work through the Unity port, we may identify things we need to change to support the new platform; but our goal is to provide full support or backward compatibility when possible.

Cheers,
JPG

[viresanimi]

That all sounds awesome. Considering that Unity can make some pretty good games, I thought we would see something completely different and in a more .. ehm "closed" system? If that makes any sense. Anyhoo... seems like Unity can do a lot more than I realized - hence the misguided question before.

Sounds good to me, so far.

Vires Animi

[Willot]

Hows this been going anyways?

[jhall6766]

Anyplace on the net that I might be able to find lessons in regards to learning LUA

[Trenloe]

Anyplace on the net that I might be able to find lessons in regards to learning LUA
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/modguide/scripting.xcp

Or "Google" lua tutorial

[jhall6766]

Thank You , Trenloe

[Cheezegr8r]

are there any updates to the release of the unity engine? any news? release dates?

just a few crumb please!

[Moon Wizard]

The Unity development has been delayed by the 5E contract, launch and updates necessary to support.

I'm looking forward to getting back to unity development as soon as v3.1.0 goes out. Also, as soon as we get ahead of 5E release schedule, Zeus will begin helping as well.

Regards,
JPG

[Cheezegr8r]

Thank you for the update! that's very helpful. I don't suppose i should wait for Unity then to start my gaming. sounds like you guys won't get it out this year.

[damned]

Thank you for the update! that's very helpful. I don't suppose i should wait for Unity then to start my gaming. sounds like you guys won't get it out this year.

if i was a betting man.... i would think it could easily be a year away - but Im not and I have no actual knowledge other than its a HUUUUUGGGGEEEE freaking project!

[JohnD]

/DfubZlBZV0s

[Surge]

I'm waiting for the Unity update with fingers crossed that it will come with significantly better drawing capabilities before trying to convince some more friends to commit to the purchase so we can actually play more frequently than once every four months when we meet up face to face.

Can I expect to wait well into 2016?

[ianmward]

What do you mean by 'drawing capabilities'?
Everyone I know who has tried Fantasy Grounds has really enjoyed it. Also, if you want to get them hooked, you can just subscribe to the ultimate subscription for one month and they can try it for free.

[damned]

I'm waiting for the Unity update with fingers crossed that it will come with significantly better drawing capabilities before trying to convince some more friends to commit to the purchase so we can actually play more frequently than once every four months when we meet up face to face.

Can I expect to wait well into 2016?

If the Devs had a date an d wanted to share it they would.
It will be here when its here...

There will always be a new version around the corner, like phones, like computers, like cars etc. All the time that you are waiting you are missing out on the goodness that is FG today.
Drawing is pretty crappy in FG. I dont think the Devs have any intention to turn FG into a mapping or drawing tool - but I do hope that there will be some improvements to drawing - different colours, different line thicknesses... but if you want a lot more than that there are so many good graphics/mapping apps available already.

[Cheezegr8r]

I'm waiting for the Unity update with fingers crossed that it will come with significantly better drawing capabilities before trying to convince some more friends to commit to the purchase so we can actually play more frequently than once every four months when we meet up face to face.

Can I expect to wait well into 2016?

I'm right there with you Surge. I think i'm still going to commit to buying into the tool sets simply because it's such a time saver to have them but i'm very much looking forward to the new engine and what they can do to allow for mapping tools... i'm hoping to be able to drop geomophs onto the mapgrid and create dungeons in game instead of loading a flat map file.

[Trenloe]

i'm hoping to be able to drop geomophs onto the mapgrid and create dungeons in game instead of loading a flat map file.
Have you had a look at the layers extension: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20231-Enhanced-Images-%28layers%29-for-FG-3-0-CoreRPG-%28and-rulesets-based-on-CoreRPG%29

This allows dropping dungeon geomorphs as tokens on lower levels - see the video link in the first thread.

There are some limitations, so make sure you read and digest the gotchas listed in the first two posts.

[Cheezegr8r]

Have you had a look at the layers extension: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20231-Enhanced-Images-%28layers%29-for-FG-3-0-CoreRPG-%28and-rulesets-based-on-CoreRPG%29

This allows dropping dungeon geomorphs as tokens on lower levels - see the video link in the first thread.

There are some limitations, so make sure you read and digest the gotchas listed in the first two posts.

hmm. i read the posts, downloaded the extension, copied it to my extensions folder. I don't see any other instructions to make it work... when I load a map I don't get the extension controls at the top fo the map. i checked and i'm running FG 3.0.13. any suggestions?

UPDATE: ok i see the extensions window when i click the create campaign button and it shows 5e but nothing about the extenstions im trying to load.

[Trenloe]

hmm. i read the posts, downloaded the extension, copied it to my extensions folder. I don't see any other instructions to make it work...
On the "Load Campaign" screen enable the Enhanced Images extension before starting the campaign.

[Cheezegr8r]

On the "Load Campaign" screen enable the Enhanced Images extension before starting the campaign.

i'm not seeing any controls for the extensions on the load campaign screen.

10080

[dberkompas]

Do you see any extensions in any other rulesets?

[vikingbrad]

Not wanting to hijack but here is an example of another VTT done in Unity.

https://www.3dvirtualtabletop.com/index.html

Its not a real competitor to FG but you can get an idea of how the graphics engine can be used for a RPG.

Then again would be good to get these guys working with Smiteworks...

[damned]

i think SW and ToFL had discussions earlier but werent quite on the same page...

[JohnD]

i'm not seeing any controls for the extensions on the load campaign screen.

10080

That looks wrong.

[Cheezegr8r]

i figured it out. i had two fantasy grounds folders... was putting the extension in one and the software was loading from the other... doh!

[Dayereth]

When does it launch or in case there is no launch date, how is it progressing?

[epithet]

Since my guesses are mostly wrong, I'm going to try to use that to my advantage:

I'm guessing that they've really only just gotten started on the Unity port, and that we won't even have an official word on progress until well into next year.

[damned]

They did actually start the Unity port quite a while ago - its just a huge job - especially building in all the backwards compatibility...
There is no published time frame etc but MW posted this in another thread -

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?26147-IPv6-Update&p=231852&viewfull=1#post231852

So it is still a way away....

[Nylanfs]

And then WotC came into the middle of it.

[Jiminimonka]

Any update on the Unity port?

[Zacchaeus]

Nope.

[Moon Wizard]

Carl and I are still working on it. No announcements yet.

Regards,
JPG

[Stryfe484]

I'm curious. When this eventually happens, will those of us with the ultimate license have to pay a small fee to transfer our licenses, or will the entire platform just switch to this new system? I'm not exactly clear on what the plan is. I'm sorry if these question have been addressed elsewhere.

[damned]

I'm curious. When this eventually happens, will those of us with the ultimate license have to pay a small fee to transfer our licenses, or will the entire platform just switch to this new system? I'm not exactly clear on what the plan is. I'm sorry if these question have been addressed elsewhere.

Yes - there will likely be *some charge* to upgrade.
Search for ddavison + kickstarter + unity and you should find some more info but no specifics have been announced.

[NotRussellCrowe]

Has there been any word on if the Unity and non-Unity versions will be able to connect to each other?

[damned]

Has there been any word on if the Unity and non-Unity versions will be able to connect to each other?

It is very unlikely that they will talk to each other. They will have completely different networking engines (among many other things).
The final 3.x version will continue to work with all players and GMs on the same version but development will likely stop completely.
The NextVersion will likely work on a similar model with incremental updates/upgrades on an ongoing basis and all players and GMs on the same version.

[Nickademus]

I'm curious if the non-unity version will remain available as a download.

[damned]

I'm curious if the non-unity version will remain available as a download.

Im guessing that it will pretty much have to...

[Diomitus]

Any more updates as to when unity will be available?

[ddavison]

No news on an ETA yet. Once we feel pretty confident about the ETA, we plan to launch a KS. That will probably be once we get to be around a 4 month mark to a release. I don't really want to do a KS with a long time for delivery. So... for that reason, it looks like we are probably talking 2017 at this point at the earliest for a release.

I don't expect the current version of FG and the FGU (Fantasy Grounds Unity) to be compatible, other than FGU being able to read in content from FG and convert it over. This will be a one-way conversion.

We also expect that the current FG version will remain available for some indeterminate amount of time after the release of FGU.

[Oberoten]

I don't expect the current version of FG and the FGU (Fantasy Grounds Unity) to be compatible, other than FGU being able to read in content from FG and convert it over. This will be a one-way conversion.




So for those of us writing rulesets this will be a one-way trip to full-rewrite-and-relearn land?

- Obe

[Moon Wizard]

Our goal is to provide as seamless a migration as possible while paving the path for new capabilities. Also, we want to provide fallback behavior for deprecated capabilities.

So, our expectation is that no or minimal rewrite will be required, though some of the behaviors may be different and some features may not be available without modifying.

At this point, there are no changes other than category controls going away, with a fallback behavior. We're more focused on the core engine capability and performance at this time.

Regards,
JPG

[Oberoten]

Our goal is to provide as seamless a migration as possible while paving the path for new capabilities. Also, we want to provide fallback behavior for deprecated capabilities.

So, our expectation is that no or minimal rewrite will be required, though some of the behaviors may be different and some features may not be available without modifying.

At this point, there are no changes other than category controls going away, with a fallback behavior. We're more focused on the core engine capability and performance at this time.

Regards,
JPG

Thanks for clarifying. For a few moments there I rather envisioned my fourth full rewrite. ;) (One at start, one at 2.0 and now recently one to bring it to work under CoreRPG instead of the old D20 ruleset as a base. )

It will be fascinating to see what comes next.

- Obe

[Patou]

Our goal is to provide as seamless a migration as possible while paving the path for new capabilities. Also, we want to provide fallback behavior for deprecated capabilities.

So, our expectation is that no or minimal rewrite will be required, though some of the behaviors may be different and some features may not be available without modifying.

At this point, there are no changes other than category controls going away, with a fallback behavior. We're more focused on the core engine capability and performance at this time.

Regards,
JPG

Hi Moon,

So if I understand correctly for those of us that have invested money in buying modules for 5E and rule books there should not be any type of re-investment to make when going to the new engine?

[damned]

The current view that has been expressed is that there will be some cost to upgrade the FG license but the DLC should not incur any costs.

[ddavison]

That is the plan. (what damned said)

[Nyghtmare]

So those of us with Ultimate Licenses will have to pay more to continue to use FG?

If so, any idea how much? Between the license and the content (I have bought all of the WotC 5e stuff in FG), I have already spent a pretty penny here. :)

[LordEntrails]

So those of us with Ultimate Licenses will have to pay more to continue to use FG?

Not exactly. You will be able to continue using your FGv2, though I'm sure updates for it will no longer be available once FGU (Unity version, whatever it gets called) is released. To get access to FGU, you will need to pay an upgrade cost. I believe SmiteWorks has stated this will be reasonable and somewhat based upon how long you have had your current license. Also, they have talked of using a Kickstarter as well.


If so, any idea how much? Between the license and the content (I have bought all of the WotC 5e stuff in FG), I have already spent a pretty penny here. :)

No idea. But note that the content will be usable as is. No upgrade cost for using the content in FGU. Do note, from my experience, SW do an excellent job of taking care of their customers and being affordable, so I'm not worried about the cost. Keep in mind, they don't charge maintenance and they keep enhancing FG2 while still working on FGU. So it seems reasonable to have to financially support SW more than once in a lifetime :)

[Paranormal GM]

So those of us with Ultimate Licenses will have to pay more to continue to use FG?

If so, any idea how much? Between the license and the content (I have bought all of the WotC 5e stuff in FG), I have already spent a pretty penny here. :)

Ant what about those of us that hold FG Ultimate and the Tablerop Connect equivalent license? I have a fair chunk of change in both platforms.....

Oh Carl?????

[ddavison]

All TTC backers should have a credit equal to the amount they pledged on KS originally. If you've already spent this credit then it will be the equivalent of those who bought into the FG platform directly. We will announce upgrade guidelines once we get closer to release.

[Paranormal GM]

All TTC backers should have a credit equal to the amount they pledged on KS originally. If you've already spent this credit then it will be the equivalent of those who bought into the FG platform directly. We will announce upgrade guidelines once we get closer to release.


I have not spent any of my TTC money. I opted to hold it all. I had also bought the FG ultimate in July of 2015

[Andraax]

All TTC backers should have a credit equal to the amount they pledged on KS originally. If you've already spent this credit then it will be the equivalent of those who bought into the FG platform directly. We will announce upgrade guidelines once we get closer to release.

Is there someplace where we can see what our credit is? I don't remember spending it...

[ddavison]

If you log into the backerkit site, it should tell you. If it doesn't show up there, email me at [email protected] and I can look it up for you. I'm headed off to Gen Con early tomorrow morning (in a few hours) so I may be a little delayed in responding until I return Monday.

[Ferrin]

You guys should consider reaching out to a large retail chain with Unity version. You could offer the full license in a box basically. Make it a nice box, maybe a community contest to design the artwork or something. Have a book or something on the inside with a Key, and download instructions. And a limited edition collector's something, that only retail purchasers get.(people eat that crap up) Then pitch the ultimate upgrade on the downloads page, maybe something like upgrade to ultimate and invite all your friends to play for free. You can use your Steam sales to better your position in your pitch to the large retailers like walmart, target, and the like.

I would package it like a board game, board games at my local Walmart cost 30-40 bucks so the price won't be a sticker shock. And you can advertise it as an online game that with infinite gaming possibilities. Talk up the longstanding community, put your website right on the back of the box, so even if they don't buy it then when they check it out online they can just hit the store. And also package it as a computer game and stick it in the PC Games section, like a double tap on the market.

You can also do like a retro advertising campaign 50's leave it to beaver style, "Have you ever wanted to try Dungeons and Dragons, but could never find anyone in your neighborhood to play with?" "Well, now you can, from the makers of Fantasy Grounds II and WotC (because your advertising with DnD, and you don't need them it just be a nice thing to have), comes Fantasy Grounds Unity available with fully licensed DnD 5 edition content. It's fun for the whole family"

If all goes well, you will have an influx of new players, but a shortage of GMs. Thats when you should create a team of Mercenary DMs you offer free crap to organize games for these new players, alot like your already doing. Maybe, if sales are good you could even pay DMs to live stream games as another form of advertising.

You could have retail players be designated as premier players, retail being new purchasers of Unity version not us old timers who will be upgrading. Which means the Mercenary DMs would need so many premier players in their live stream game, and they need to upload to youtube afterwords with links to youtube on their streaming page. A premier membership lasts lets say 6 months from the activation of the license key. Whether you offer to continue it at an additional sub is on you.

I think it could work, but I am an optimist at heart.

[Full Bleed]

I would package it like a board game, board games at my local Walmart cost 30-40 bucks so the price won't be a sticker shock.
50% of the list would go to retail.
10-15% to distribution.

Leaving a pretty thin (or non-existent) margin for profit after production.

Getting a retail presence would be nice, but they'd have to do it more cheaply than suggested. A CD in a nice slipcase kind of cheap. And it would still probably be a loss-leader.

While cracking Target and Walmart distribution would be nice, it would be far from a sure thing. So I'd go with the sure thing out of the gate: Comics and gaming stores (one principal distributor to deal with and a low bar to get in).


Honestly, I'd try to break into retail with what would, essentially, be the Demo version of FG. Slap a $3.99 price tag on it and offer some kind of "exclusive" content so even the people around here would have to buy it from retail if they wanted it.

[Ferrin]

50% of the list would go to retail.
10-15% to distribution.

Leaving a pretty thin (or non-existent) margin for profit after production.

Getting a retail presence would be nice, but they'd have to do it more cheaply than suggested. A CD in a nice slipcase kind of cheap. And it would still probably be a loss-leader.

While cracking Target and Walmart distribution would be nice, it would be far from a sure thing. So I'd go with the sure thing out of the gate: Comics and gaming stores (one principal distributor to deal with and a low bar to get in).


Honestly, I'd try to break into retail with what would, essentially, be the Demo version of FG. Slap a $3.99 price tag on it and offer some kind of "exclusive" content so even the people around here would have to buy it from retail if they wanted it.

Well, a marginalized profit structure is not necessarily a bad thing. And with the already existing online sales infrastructure, plus keeping Ultimate as an upgrade offered on the website they can set their online margins to whatever they want.


https://youtu.be/UWImfFax8Ew?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtPNZwz5_o_5uirJ8gQXnhE O

watch the video for a crash course on revenue, profits, and what not.

Right now, Smiteworks is poised to capitalize with actual economic profit, before their competition catches up and forces them into marginalizing to survive. If they expand before everyone else they can set the standard, and not be forced into Roll20's or D20pros marketing structure later on down the road.

With new generations of gamers entering the market everyday, hitting large retails that go even to remote areas makes more sense than hobby shops that are in cities with high centers of population. I personally have never lived in an area with a game store. Which already sells the products FG sells, so it would make no sense to market in your competitors house. Especially when your marketing strategy should be geared towards people who can't go to a game store easily.

Think of how Valve forced the Giant EA into Origin with Steam, but in reverse, because people that live on County Roads like playing games to, and unless your paying through the nose to advertise on their tv or hulu or whatever they watch, they just don't know about FG. Stick it in a retail store, and they will. Old people will buy it as gifts for young people. And when they redeem their key, they get to market all their content to these new marginalized customers at a decent markup. Because FG is an online store as well.

[Beerbelly]

With the unity engine and the video that was realeased showing the line of site option for hte token. (the 16 second video), who would actually see the line of site. Obviously the DM, but as for players, would only the owner of the token's character see what their line of site was or would all players looking at the map? Also, will it act like a fog of war where monsters in that line of site show up but not ones outside of it?

[harrisben]

Fantasy Grounds is the gateway drug to the content available on the store. That's where the real money comes from because once the content is produced the cost is quickly recouped and everything after that is pure profit. I would guess that one of the things that will be done in FG Unity is to integrate the store into the application to make access to the store content front and centre (this is the correct way to spell it :P) and as seamless as possible.

In terms of Fantasy Grounds itself, a monthly subscription has more value than an outright purchase because it's ongoing revenue that can (mostly) be guaranteed. Most businesses would use this revenue to cover the cost of operations.

(at least, this is the way I think about it)

[damned]

At least up until 5e came along far and away the base licenses were the only thing that many people bought. 5e has definitely changed the ratio of this - but to what extent only SW knows. Subscription models are definitely a more sustainable path for software providers. Whilst subscriber numbers go up and down it is much easier to forecast your revenue and plan your development investments accordingly.

[Full Bleed]

With new generations of gamers entering the market everyday, hitting large retails that go even to remote areas makes more sense than hobby shops that are in cities with high centers of population. I personally have never lived in an area with a game store.
I'm being realistic about what this company can do *right now*. You're talking a bit pie-in-the-sky. I don't need a crash course on revenue, profits, and "what not". I understand the costs and mechanics involved in production, distribution, marketing, and retail penetration. Lets just say I've "been there, done that". In addition, the bar to get into Walmart and Target is *much* higher than you can imagine for a product/company like this. It's not like they have a marketing and retail production/distribution department to handle this sort of thing or the backing of an established publisher. You think they've never entertained the idea of a retail product before?


Right now, Smiteworks is poised to capitalize with actual economic profit, before their competition catches up
"Catches up?"

Are you talking about their 5e footprint or their VTT footprint? Granted, they have a slight head-start with 5e, but even if Roll-20's user numbers are hyper-inflated, FG is far behind their adoption. And, truth is, by the time FG could launch a retail product for an as yet unreleased version of FGU, Roll20 will have a firmly established 5e front as well so any competitive edge they were rushing to protect will have likely already vanished. In short, that ship has sailed.


At any rate, I'm not completely dismissing the viability of a retail presence... I'm just pointing out that there are significant hurdles and costs associated with such a move as an independent. I simply believe that there is virtually no chance they could put out the kind of product you laid out without having a well-connected publisher steering that ship. However, there are some markets they could explore if they were interested in dipping a toe into the retail space (which, frankly, I'm not sure they are).

[Ken L]

I'd simply just have every full license have 2 guest slots like d20pro has. That way, normal license users can now have 2 slots for free-users which will open the game to far more users.

[FSHSchmo]

In terms of Fantasy Grounds itself, a monthly subscription has more value than an outright purchase because it's ongoing revenue that can (mostly) be guaranteed. Most businesses would use this revenue to cover the cost of operations.

(at least, this is the way I think about it)

And this is why I have subbed now for two years instead of upgrading my full license. I love the product and thinking of the monthly as a way of keeping them with a steady stream of income.

[Beerbelly]

Can we please take the speculation of Fantasy Grounds income to another feed so questions that actually pertain to the Unity engian update can be seen here please. As interesting as the cost/income analysis is, kind of would like to learn as much about actual updates to FG as possible.

[Ferrin]

I'm being realistic about what this company can do *right now*. You're talking a bit pie-in-the-sky. I don't need a crash course on revenue, profits, and "what not". I understand the costs and mechanics involved in production, distribution, marketing, and retail penetration. Lets just say I've "been there, done that". In addition, the bar to get into Walmart and Target is *much* higher than you can imagine for a product/company like this. It's not like they have a marketing and retail production/distribution department to handle this sort of thing or the backing of an established publisher. You think they've never entertained the idea of a retail product before?


"Catches up?"

Are you talking about their 5e footprint or their VTT footprint? Granted, they have a slight head-start with 5e, but even if Roll-20's user numbers are hyper-inflated, FG is far behind their adoption. And, truth is, by the time FG could launch a retail product for an as yet unreleased version of FGU, Roll20 will have a firmly established 5e front as well so any competitive edge they were rushing to protect will have likely already vanished. In short, that ship has sailed.


At any rate, I'm not completely dismissing the viability of a retail presence... I'm just pointing out that there are significant hurdles and costs associated with such a move as an independent. I simply believe that there is virtually no chance they could put out the kind of product you laid out without having a well-connected publisher steering that ship. However, there are some markets they could explore if they were interested in dipping a toe into the retail space (which, frankly, I'm not sure they are).

I am referring to neither 5e or their VTT, I am referring to their existing business model, and established online venues. In the world of markets, what your selling really doesn't matter that much. And as far as what they can do right now, how do you think companies expand? They pitch their existing model to banks and ask for money, in the case of going after a large retailer, pitching to the retailer first and getting some intent to take to the bank will go along way. Crowdsourcing is great and all, but what they have right now can be leveraged for more.

The business world is basicaly, If I have y will you do x, hey Mr. Bank these people will do x, give me y please. If you think its all that hard to get Walmart purveyor of everything under the sun to peddle your crap, you may have not been to a Walmart recently. You think the As seen on Tv guys had to reach a very high bar? An all SW would be doing is selling a number in a cheap cardboard box.

In my original post before you deigned to try and instruct me on why they need to charge more money to less people to stay afloat, I said it would be trouble and tough. But I am an eternal optimist and feel they could do it with the Unity Release. So if your final argument is "I am not saying it won't work, I am just saying I assume you have a limited knowledge or world view and wish rain on your parade with straw man arguments."

Go troll elsewhere.

[harrisben]

So if FG Unity could DM for me while I click things and look/sound awesome, that would be great. I'm sure the guys can code that in somewhere*.

Also, the dishes.

* 'Code that in' being a very technical term

[Full Bleed]

Go troll elsewhere.
Absolutely nothing I've said is even remotely a troll. It's backed by actual experience with worldwide retail sales, production, and product distribution. I just find it funny when people who have a limited understanding of how those markets actually work deign to instruct companies about how they should package, sell, and distribute their products without any actual cost analysis or understanding of what it takes. I did not expect you to get so angry after being confronted with some harsh realities.



If you think its all that hard to get Walmart purveyor of everything under the sun to peddle your crap, you may have not been to a Walmart recently. You think the As seen on Tv guys had to reach a very high bar?
Much higher than you can--and apparently have--imagined. For example, here are some words directly from a senior buyer and product director at Walmart:



Karen Posada, maker of the Good Promise veggie smoothies and juice pouches, explained in her pitch that her pouches would retail for about $1.80. Paul Renn, Walmart's product director, told her, "Anything under $2, you are gold."

The chain also grilled Blamtastic, an Atlanta-based company that makes an adult diaper-rash spray, about its pricing. "Walmart absolutely cannot be beat on price," is what Staci Cochran, senior buyer for over-the-counter pharmacy, told Blamtastic's leaders. "To win at Walmart, make it under $10."

And you think Smiteworks can waltz in with a $40 product and Walmart will gobble it up? You really haven't even done the most basic research necessary to get indignant about what it takes to get into a massive chain like Walmart to be schooling me or Smiteworks about what they should be doing.

Did you even know that "getting into Walmart" does not even mean you get into *every* Walmart? It doesn't work like that. It's a much more complicated process.


"Those who do get a shot at Walmart often are given a small run in a few hundred stores, so as not to overwhelm their startup businesses."

Btw, what's your research tell you about Walmart's product acceptance rate?

I'll answer that for you: Nothing. You see some crap on the shelves and make the mistake of assuming that mean's "they take anything." Not even remotely close to reality.


However, competition is fierce; in 2004, “about 10,000 new suppliers applied to become Walmart vendors. Of those, only about 200, or 2%, were ultimately accepted”

And that was pre-Great Recession.

So, yes, I stand by my assertions. Not a straw man in sight.

Also, please note that I won't be addressing you directly in this thread again. You can bring it to PM if you wish. I didn't set out to argue with you, only provide some truly actionable information that Smiteworks could look into should they wish to explore the retail space with FGU (which, as I said, they may not even be interested in doing).

[Ken L]

Hey guys, can you that your beef to PMs?

[JohnD]

A strange step sideways taken, this thread has.

[/Yoda]

Time has not changed certain things.

[harrisben]

Perhaps FG Unity will bring - Unity * boom* *tish*

If FG Unity would enable time travel...

[dulux-oz]

If FG Unity would enable time travel...

Well... we could always play Doctor Who RPG...

[Ferrin]

Absolutely nothing I've said is even remotely a troll. It's backed by actual experience with worldwide retail sales, production, and product distribution. I just find it funny when people who have a limited understanding of how those markets actually work deign to instruct companies about how they should package, sell, and distribute their products without any actual cost analysis or understanding of what it takes. I did not expect you to get so angry after being confronted with some harsh realities.


Much higher than you can--and apparently have--imagined. For example, here are some words directly from a senior buyer and product director at Walmart:


And you think Smiteworks can waltz in with a $40 product and Walmart will gobble it up? You really haven't even done the most basic research necessary to get indignant about what it takes to get into a massive chain like Walmart to be schooling me or Smiteworks about what they should be doing.

Did you even know that "getting into Walmart" does not even mean you get into *every* Walmart? It doesn't work like that. It's a much more complicated process.



Btw, what's your research tell you about Walmart's product acceptance rate?

I'll answer that for you: Nothing. You see some crap on the shelves and make the mistake of assuming that mean's "they take anything." Not even remotely close to reality.



And that was pre-Great Recession.

So, yes, I stand by my assertions. Not a straw man in sight.

Also, please note that I won't be addressing you directly in this thread again. You can bring it to PM if you wish. I didn't set out to argue with you, only provide some truly actionable information that Smiteworks could look into should they wish to explore the retail space with FGU (which, as I said, they may not even be interested in doing).

You def set out to argue with me, and when I called you on it, you backpedaled and threw out straw man arguments (trying to make my position look like it was something it wasn't). Now your claiming some moral victory, based on your real experience (unverifiable) and an out of context quote. Before inviting me continue in pm, like i give two shits about your opnion, you coulda not given it all. But nooooo.....

Maybe in the future, don't take a contrary position to someone giving a take it or leave it suggestion. It's not like I asked for your condescension. But you sure were willing to give it. So thank you for leaving me alone, maybe in the future when I post something you don't like, mind your own business.

And your actionable suggestion amounts to offering their product in a venue that offers the same products. Yeah, sell in your competitors house in a saturated market. You sure are smart.

[dulux-oz]

@ Ferrin and @Full Bleed

Alright you two - ENOUGH!

The complaints are starting to come in from other users. While nobody is trying to stifle anyone's free speech, we pride ourselves here on the FG Forums as a friendly and relaxed place - so I'm going to suggest that you two let this go and agree to disagree!

I'd hate for myself or one of the other Moderators to have to ban either/both of you, even temporarily - so the subject is now CLOSED!

[Ken L]

Returning back to the main topic...

I've heard that there's a new N-layer system and I'm interested on how it will work. Zeus' layers extension is great, but it feels like a community extension that should have been part of the base package where he worked around a few of the obstacles. One thing i've experienced is that it's difficult to tell what's on what layer from the GM perspective, and another is the requirement that the bottom layer be selected in order to unmask requiring me to constantly flip layers just to reveal items, and move around tokens.

Perhaps there could be a 'toggle high-light' option so when activated, it will highlight or tint tokens/images that are on the selected layer. Regarding the mask, I'm looking for the native unity implementation to treat mask universally so that it's independent from layers.

[Ferrin]

@ Ferrin and @Full Bleed

Alright you two - ENOUGH!

The complaints are starting to come in from other users. While nobody is trying to stifle anyone's free speech, we pride ourselves here on the FG Forums as a friendly and relaxed place - so I'm going to suggest that you two let this go and agree to disagree!

I'd hate for myself or one of the other Moderators to have to ban either/both of you, even temporarily - so the subject is now CLOSED!

Lol, of all the times I make a suggestion, to have some wannabe troll come in and pick a long fight with me , this is the one I get threatened with a ban. Nothing against you Dulux, I like you. But, I would take the banning just to see him banned to, tired of every time I have something I want to bring forward someone like Andraax or Full Bleed has to take exception and draw me in. Every time, I am not joking you are welcome to check my post history. I just came back from a long break, I can go on another one. So do what you gotta do.

[Moon Wizard]

The idea right now is that it will be an N-layer system under the covers for sure, but we haven't decided what the UI will look like yet which will determine what kind of functionality will be available.

For the first version, we want to make sure we can do at least what we do now with the framework to do more. Based on our discussions, we'll most likely do more in the first version, but I don't want to commit to any details until we're closer to release.

As you stated, I'd like the layer ordering (including the mask) to be customizable, and to allow multiple layers for overlay graphics (tiles, furniture, tokens, etc). I'm sure we'll be showing more as we are closer, since those kind of features are easy to show.

For now, we're focused on making sure that the platform works with the hundreds of add-ons we already have available.

Cheers,
JPG

[Diomitus]

So to clarify;

The Unity Engine will require an additional payment even for those who have the ultimate license?

And Fantasy Grounds will work on unity but unity will not work on fantasy grounds?

[Moon Wizard]

That's completely undetermined at this time. However, Doug has stated on several occasions that we are looking at doing a pay what you want option or an upgrade price based on when you purchased. Most likely the first.

Our goal is to make sure that all the DLC works on FGU, but it will be a one-way migration for campaigns when you move over.

Cheers,
JPG

[Diomitus]

Cool. Thank you for the info!

[RagingCeltik]

If and when the team brings the Unity FG to Kickstarter, will there be some sort of "pre-public" period or special tiers for those of us who have purchased ultimate licences already to show our support by getting first crack at it? Is that possible?

[ddavison]

Possibly. It hasn't been decided yet.

[Fynious]

It's been years, since Unity was brought up... Is there any type of time frame?

Thanks
Fyn

[Zacchaeus]

As you will have gathered from reading the thread (assuming you did) then no.

[Nylanfs]

Soon (tm) (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealSoonNow)

[ddavison]

Carl and John are still busy programming away on it. It's a big project and we decided to make sure that it would be completely backward compatible with all existing DLC and add-ons. For that reason, it is taking a bit longer than we had hoped. It is definitely moving forward though. We had hoped to have an Alpha level build ready for this August, but it looks like we might be closer to a date at the start of 2017.

[maugrim8866]

Thanks for the update.

[gaara6666]

I would rather it done right than rushed along. Good going doug, take your time.

[Manahtar]

Thanks for the update Doug, we appreciate the effort to make it compatible, i'll go take my pills against anxiousness now haha

[computertrucker]

I am definitely interested in seeing how it works with Parsed 4E stuff

[damned]

I am definitely interested in seeing how it works with Parsed 4E stuff

It will work exactly the same way it works with the current engine.

[spite]

I hope that goes for all par5e stuff too! I would be gutted if I had to redo all my par5e material heh.
I'm excited to see where Smiteworks goes under the Unity engine, and I am certain my interest in the hobby that was piqued originally by Fantasy Grounds will be maintained for many versions still to come :P

[kylania]

I hope that goes for all par5e stuff too! I would be gutted if I had to redo all my par5e material heh.

If Unity added a method for easier or more powerful parsing or something similar I'd be very happy to have to redo all hand parsed content in order to take advantage of that. Smiteworks could redo the format of official DLC and just push down an update for official products so the format change would be invisible to DLC owners. We shouldn't hold back progress to save end users a few hours of reparsing of custom content.

[damned]

If Unity added a method for easier or more powerful parsing or something similar I'd be very happy to have to redo all hand parsed content in order to take advantage of that. Smiteworks could redo the format of official DLC and just push down an update for official products so the format change would be invisible to DLC owners. We shouldn't hold back progress to save end users a few hours of reparsing of custom content.

I doubt there will be an easier way....

[Zacchaeus]

I hope that goes for all par5e stuff too! I would be gutted if I had to redo all my par5e material heh.
I'm excited to see where Smiteworks goes under the Unity engine, and I am certain my interest in the hobby that was piqued originally by Fantasy Grounds will be maintained for many versions still to come :P

The Prime Directive of Unity is 'Thou shalt not break stuff'. So when Unity does finally hit the ether everything that currently works will work in exactly the same way that it works now. So you can be confident that anything you have built in par5e will not be affected. All that par5e does after all is produce a bunch of XML which is read into FG. The real challenge with unity is not things like that but the under the hood stuff like rulesets and the interface and how stuff is displayed on screen.

[Trenloe]

Smiteworks could redo the format of official DLC and just push down an update for official products so the format change would be invisible to DLC owners. We shouldn't hold back progress to save end users a few hours of reparsing of custom content.
Err... there are hundreds of commercial DLC offerings out there so it would be a significant process to "just push down an update for official products". Plus, who knows how many community and personal PAR5E/manually created modules/extensions would suddenly cease to work or completely break. Are you seriously suggesting these get deliberately broken to not "hold back process"? I'm sure you'd be one of the people included in complaining (rightly so) if this were actually the case as changing format would also invalidate your currently running campaign data. For many it would not be a case of a few hours repairing their content - especially as many using said content might not have the skills necessary to do so and the original developer might not be around, or willing, to assist. Luckily Smiteworks don't hold this opinion and have stated many times that one of their main goals in moving to Unity is maintain backwards compatibility with all of the current FG rulesets, modules, extensions, etc..

[Qoff]

Where can I find pictures of the unity version?

[Trenloe]

Where can I find pictures of the unity version?
Do a search for "unity" on the Fantasy Grounds Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/fantasygrounds/

There's not many, and most are from quite a while ago.

[Qoff]

Do a search for "unity" on the Fantasy Grounds Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/fantasygrounds/

There's not many, and most are from quite a while ago.

Just saw the LoS video, this is freaking awesome, can't wait for the unity version.

[Qoff]

Btw: What will happen with our current licenses when the unity version arrives? We'll have to buy anything new?

[LordEntrails]

Btw: What will happen with our current licenses when the unity version arrives? We'll have to buy anything new?
It has not been officially announced. It is expected there will be an upgrade fee and it may be tiered based upon how long ago you bought your license.

But, all said, nothing officially announced.

[Beerbelly]

With the Unity upgrade, and the great options for character vision and such, will there be the possiblilty in the future or in current plans to have effects such as a Paladins 5e Aura of protection, where it affects characters being in a certain range, to auto effect? so when the character moves into that range, they bonus to save is automatically added to the character and drops when he moves out of range? It would be a cool feature, if it could happen.

[Qoff]

With the Unity upgrade, and the great options for character vision and such, will there be the possiblilty in the future or in current plans to have effects such as a Paladins 5e Aura of protection, where it affects characters being in a certain range, to auto effect? so when the character moves into that range, they bonus to save is automatically added to the character and drops when he moves out of range? It would be a cool feature, if it could happen.

Amem to that.

[ddavison]

With the Unity upgrade, and the great options for character vision and such, will there be the possiblilty in the future or in current plans to have effects such as a Paladins 5e Aura of protection, where it affects characters being in a certain range, to auto effect? so when the character moves into that range, they bonus to save is automatically added to the character and drops when he moves out of range? It would be a cool feature, if it could happen.

That's a cool idea. I'm not sure how easy it would be to add in, but I like the thought.

[LordEntrails]

With the Unity upgrade, and the great options for character vision and such, will there be the possiblilty in the future or in current plans to have effects such as a Paladins 5e Aura of protection, where it affects characters being in a certain range, to auto effect? so when the character moves into that range, they bonus to save is automatically added to the character and drops when he moves out of range? It would be a cool feature, if it could happen.
I suggest you add it to the official wish list (https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/). Then the devs can track it etc.

[Qoff]

I suggest you add it to the official wish list (https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/). Then the devs can track it etc.

Please post it in the list and I'll post in some FG facebook groups.

[LordEntrails]

Please post it in the list and I'll post in some FG facebook groups.
??? Note sure I understand what your asking/stating. You can add it to the list yourself, that way you can track it as well as explain it best.

[Qoff]

??? Note sure I understand what your asking/stating. You can add it to the list yourself, that way you can track it as well as explain it best.

Well, isn't my idea, it wouldn't be fair to me to post.

[Zacchaeus]

I added it (https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=106208) for you

[Qoff]

I'll share, thank you!

[Kyuss11]

I know about LOS or line of sight feature coming with Unity but I can't find anything else.I'm hoping that one of the new features is the ability to have multiple layers to the map.It would be nice to have a background layer,object layer,hidden and token layer.If anyone has ever used Maptools then they know what I'm talking about.These layers will allow Gms to be able to build maps on the fly or have things change in the background to make things more dynamic.Players will be able to have multiple token images like a character standing,crouching,mounted etc.The hidden layer would show Gms where there traps are and possibly if coded right could be triggered when a token moves over the square that's trapped.

[LordEntrails]

I know about LOS or line of sight feature coming with Unity but I can't find anything else.I'm hoping that one of the new features is the ability to have multiple layers to the map.It would be nice to have a background layer,object layer,hidden and token layer.If anyone has ever used Maptools then they know what I'm talking about.These layers will allow Gms to be able to build maps on the fly or have things change in the background to make things more dynamic.Players will be able to have multiple token images like a character standing,crouching,mounted etc.The hidden layer would show Gms where there traps are and possibly if coded right could be triggered when a token moves over the square that's trapped.
I believe that functionality is already on the wishlist. See post #110 of this thread for the link.

[Trenloe]

It would be nice to have a background layer,object layer,hidden and token layer.
Try this extension, it introduces three layers: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20231-Enhanced-Images-(layers)-for-FG-3-0-CoreRPG-(and-rulesets-based-on-CoreRPG)

[SpiritofFire]

What'd be great is if all the adventure modules had the DM map info consolidated with the normal map in a different layer.

[Trenloe]

What'd be great is if all the adventure modules had the DM map info consolidated with the normal map in a different layer.
Interesting... I think this would lose the flexibility of a separate (smaller) GM map used just for the GM to have a quick look at "secret" things they should know about. Or, do you want it as an addition?

How would you see this additional "GM info" layer working? The GM can already put pushpins and invisible tokens on the map to remind them of things and link to them.

[Kyuss11]

I'm not sure if this has been suggested some where else so sorry for double post.
I was wondering if there was a way to change the mask color from white to black for better contrast on light colors? It's hard to see where you have uncovered if the colors are the same.
Another problem that I found is that tokens don't seem to have any properties to have things attached to them and I hope this is a new Unity design.The problem is a character token has a torch with light and if you make a radius to show the lighted area,the lighted area doesn't move with the token and it would be nice to attach the light property or radius to a token.

[damned]

You cannot change the mask on a case by case basis. There is a Black Mask extension (check CoreRPG extension thread) which may suit but its a one or the other thing...



https://www.fg-con.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/fgcon9-sig8.jpg (https://www.fg-con.com/events/)
FG Con 9 – Fantasy Grounds Online RPG Convention - October 14-16 2016
Register at www.fg-con.com (https://www.fg-con.com/) for all the latest info.

[SpiritofFire]

Interesting... I think this would lose the flexibility of a separate (smaller) GM map used just for the GM to have a quick look at "secret" things they should know about. Or, do you want it as an addition?

How would you see this additional "GM info" layer working? The GM can already put pushpins and invisible tokens on the map to remind them of things and link to them.

I imagined this to be just one map, with the secret gm info only visible to the GM. I dont have a lot of screen real estate, so i cant afford to have two maps up at one time.

ATM, i bought the CoS hardcopy so i dont miss those secret doors. I just keep it on my lap for reference. On FG theyre not marked on the normal map with a pin, so theyre easy to miss. But even if they were, just being able to see a visual map element would be a huge plus. The sea of red pins is sometimes overwhelming.

[LordEntrails]

But even if they were, just being able to see a visual map element would be a huge plus. The sea of red pins is sometimes overwhelming.

Two related ideas that would help;
- https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=81597
- https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=95803

But I do like the idea of being able to have elements/objects added to a map that might have unique visibility controls. Maybe you can flesh out and add the idea on the wishlist?

[Ken L]

so.. any word on that kickstarter?

[Zacchaeus]

Nope

[lasmela]

One thing comes after another. Let them release 3.2 first

[whiteTiki]

Hi. I'll keep it short.

I usually write about how I like FG and the good work the Devs have been doing, and just to be clear, I still think that way, but I want to mention 1 thing I really really really don't like:

1.- I have since 2015 hearing about this new version of FG coming up. I've read posts were the first release was supposed to be a year ago, and each time the deadline comes, the deadline itself is moved forward 3-4 months. Don't get me wrong, I'm completely fine with you guys wanting to make a really good release and the "waiting" is not a big deal for me. My real problem here is that I made a plan to pay a monthly subscription instead of buying full license because the "release date" was just a few months away. Now there's been more than a year of that I think, and I just happen to read that its going to be 2017 now? Not cool guys. I love the commitment all the Dev team has to create an excellent version of FG, but I really hate the lack of "sticking to the plan" thing. If you guys want to make your own internal plans and then not sticking to them at all thats ok with me, but when communicating your "supposed deadline" to the public and failing to accomplish your goals.... I don't know, just saying.

Note 1: Not asking for refund or any kind of stuff related to that, I really just meant to say what's exactly written up here. I'm completely aware that paying the monthly subscription was my decision and sometimes there are this "risks" that come along with it.

Note 2: I'm not angry or anything, because I understand the context surrounding this release, it's just a little disappointing to realize it's been moved to 2017.

Cheers everyone!

[Moon Wizard]

I understand your frustration, as we would really like the Unity version to be further along as well. However, this is one of the reasons why I personally don't like to talk about things that are happening behind the scenes, especially in terms of timelines. I prefer to wait until something is almost done, and avoid showing prototypes. However, the rest of the team is excited as we make progress, so bits and pieces get shown and talked about.

One of the reasons for the Unity delay is due to the success of getting more content for the FG platform. Between the 5E license and the continuing expansion of the content catalog, it has heavily delayed work on the Unity version. Also, I've been pulled off almost exclusively to deal with ongoing maintenance and helping with feature and content releases for the current version (always with an eye to make sure it works in future versions too). That is the reason that we brought both Carl and James on board to help us, and it does show in the progress of the internal builds.

However, as we already knew and how development is ending up, Fantasy Grounds is a very complex piece of software with literally hundreds of DLC that need to be maintained for backward compatibility. While there has been slow but steady progress on the internal builds, we want to make sure that the experience of moving to a new platform is a good one and that you are able to use all the content you already purchased.

So, as I always tell people when they ask me about the schedule for the Unity version. Buy the software because you like it today, not for some unscheduled future version. (Good advice for any product purchase.)

Regards,
JPG

[ddavison]

I would like to mirror what John has said and to reply with the very cliche response that good software takes time. When I owned a software consulting company for 8 years, I was very good at setting deadlines and meeting those with my team. That sort of thing comes from experience and doing similar jobs to things you have done many, many times before. When you are in brand new waters, that all goes out the window. When John, Zeph and I first started looking at Unity, Unity was a brand new thing for us. The development environment is different from what we have with the current version of FG and we debated about a few different approaches to tackling the problem of porting everything over but maintaining compatibility with all the existing content. As John said, we then picked up the D&D license and this took over almost completely for the team. Eventually, we brought Carl on board and he has a lot of experience with Unity and his own VTT but had absolutely no experience with Fantasy Grounds. The 3.2 stuff are things that we were going to hold until the Unity launch, but we decided to go ahead and push that out on the current platform. The thinking is that it moves things forward and helps better prepare for how we want things to start running on Unity. Since the Unity port is going to be compatible (via 1-way conversion possibly), then this would not be "wasted effort."

As for deadlines, people always want to know when it will be released. They also want more communication and information about it. Just know that things are moving along in the background and constant, steady work is getting applied to it. We have 1 full-time, high quality dev devoted to nothing but that and he has been working for over a year now on it solidly. Zeph (aka Zeus) is now available more than he has been over the last year as well and John is finally getting freed up again after the major 3.2 stuff is settling down. That said, we won't start taking any money for it or launching a Kickstarter until we know with absolute certainty when we will be able to release. There are still too many unknowns and too many bigger obstacles to solve. We won't start planning a launch date until we have a fully functioning VTT that is a worthy successor and upgrade to the Fantasy Grounds name.

[dulux-oz]

I'd like to add my $0.02 worth if I may - as a Professional ICT Consultant, Project/Program Manager and one of the Community Devs, I can understand both side of the coin (Developer and Customer). Yes, it can be frustrating when deadlines are pushed back (for both the devs and the customers) but the alternative is releasing a product that has so many bugs and broken features that it just doesn't work - some commercial pieces of software and some games from the past come to mind!

Personally, if I've got to be frustrated then I'd rather be frustrated with a working product being delayed then have a product now that doesn't work - neither situation is desirable, but as I said I know which one I'd prefer.

So to the boys at SmiteWorks: keep it up, don't slow down, but get it right!

To everyone who uses FG: let's give the SmiteWorks boys (and the Community Devs) a break; it not easy being a coder and when we pester them for enhancements, updates, fixes and other things it can come across as being a tad ungrateful (even when we don't mean it to sound that way because we are grateful), and believe me, these boys are some of the most customer-focused people I've ever seen or worked with the in the ICT-space.

Cheers

[viresanimi]

Well said good sir. I wholeheartedly agree and just look forward to it. It will come when it comes.

Vires Animi

[damned]

I dont ever recall seeing any firm dates. The closest thing I recall to something getting close to firm is... 2017...

[spite]

I dont ever recall seeing any firm dates. The closest thing I recall to something getting close to firm is... 2017...

Same here, now I may not back as active in some areas of the forums as others, but I always got the idea that it was soon™ rather than any particular date.

That being said, it'll never be soon enough to get dynamic lighting. :)

Keep doing what you're doing. The amount of feedback that gets taken on board by the devs and new functionality that's added with every update is astounding and the absolute best thing about this program and it's developers (and community, big shout out to Trenloe, Zachh, Dulux-Oz to name but a few).

[Torgaard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3dXBoN1lFE

[whiteTiki]

Thanks to everyone for your quick responses, I always appreciate that.

To start, I just want to clarify that in my previous post, in any way I was trying to say that I'm against moving the release date of the unity version forward. I'm perfectly ok with the decision the Dev team made and I know and understand the reasons which basically are: "We want to make sure we deliver a good quality product."

Now, having that said, I just wanted to answer to some posts:


I dont ever recall seeing any firm dates. The closest thing I recall to something getting close to firm is... 2017...

dammed and spite:

You are absolutely right. There hasn't been any firm date I can recall either, but I can perfectly trace back memories to posts I read Q2 2015 saying "probably this summer". Then later that year, moving it to "maybe October (2015)", then moving it to 2016, and so on. As you said, there have been no firm dates; if by firm you mean some "official / public announcement" or something like that.

And that may be the reason why Moon Wizard said, and I completely agree with him:


(...) However, this is one of the reasons why I personally don't like to talk about things that are happening behind the scenes, especially in terms of timelines. I prefer to wait until something is almost done, and avoid showing prototypes. However, the rest of the team is excited as we make progress, so bits and pieces get shown and talked about. (...)

I'm definitely following your excellent advise Moon Wizard, and I thank you for that one;
(...) So, as I always tell people when they ask me about the schedule for the Unity version. Buy the software because you like it today, not for some unscheduled future version. (Good advice for any product purchase).

Now, the thing ddavison said to me which I considered one of the most important ones was:


(...) When I owned a software consulting company for 8 years, I was very good at setting deadlines and meeting those with my team. That sort of thing comes from experience and doing similar jobs to things you have done many, many times before. When you are in brand new waters, that all goes out the window. (...)

I was really unaware this were "brand new waters" for the company itself. Which of course, makes it understandable. I'm pretty aware that you guys hadn't used unity before in FG, but until I read ddavison's comment and because I know so little about coding and stuff, I thought every "coding" and "programming" was the same thing and that it didn't matter if it was unity or other platform.

And least but not last:


(...) and believe me, these boys are some of the most customer-focused people I've ever seen or worked with the in the ICT-space. (...)

I can't agree more with dulux-oz on this one; this is definitely one of the things I admire the most. Writing an e-mail to Fantasy Grounds support or writing a post and having Doug himself and other senior developers respond to each one of them in less than 4 hours (most of the time is just 1 hour for me) is definitely some awesome customer service you guys have here. Also, I must add, the answers I get are always what I need to read and in a very polite manner.

In the end, I personally believe Moon Wizard's idea on how to "handle information" is the way to go. I prefer not knowing from any source (official, "firm dates", or other) whats "behind the scenes" until there's really some concrete information with some specific and achievable plan going on and that this information will stay "firm" until the end.
But of course, this is just my opinion. Maybe a lot of people love to feed frequently on small pieces of information here and there and that motivates them and makes them happy; kind of like the people who love to watch "the apple's iphone or samsung's galaxy rumors" for the next generation phones coming in the year 2056. Personally, not my style.

That's all, thanks for reading. Cheers!

[Patou]

Can't wait to see the outcome. It's going to be awesome!!!!!

[Ulundill]

Hi, as someone who is new to FG and VTTs in general I just decided top go all out and bought the complete 5e set and the ultimate licence, only while looking at tutorials to learn the ins and outs of the program I see people talking about this unity version. Now I can't seem to find any clear answers on this. What will the pricing be for the unity version? How much of a discount, if any, will holders of things like the ultimate license get? Honestly I will feel incredibly ripped off I just dropped almost $600 for this program only to have a better version come out a few months later just to charge me another $100 or something. I could have just waited for it at that point, but they don't exactly make is super obvious a new version is coming out. I only stumbled upon it from forum posts while looking up tutorials.

I'd love to support FG as its the only option I have to play d&d at this stage in my life(friends all live in different cities and such) but for those of us who buy a product only to have it become obsolete in less than a year that feels pretty shitty. So I hope that is not the case and that the devs offer a decent discount to people in those circumstances.

I'm sorry if this has been addressed before but I was unable to find a clear answer, just speculation and the devs saying they were unsure.

[ddavison]

We don't yet have a release date or even an Alpha or Beta build available. There will likely be an upgrade fee but it will most likely be presented in a Pay-what-you-want fashion with a very low minimum ($5-$15). The plan is for all of the DLC to be backward compatible, meaning that all your existing purchases will work with the new version and will probably receive some form of upgrade as part of the conversion to the new version of Fantasy Grounds.

[7H3LaughingMan]

Hi, as someone who is new to FG and VTTs in general I just decided top go all out and bought the complete 5e set and the ultimate licence, only while looking at tutorials to learn the ins and outs of the program I see people talking about this unity version. Now I can't seem to find any clear answers on this. What will the pricing be for the unity version? How much of a discount, if any, will holders of things like the ultimate license get? Honestly I will feel incredibly ripped off I just dropped almost $600 for this program only to have a better version come out a few months later just to charge me another $100 or something. I could have just waited for it at that point, but they don't exactly make is super obvious a new version is coming out. I only stumbled upon it from forum posts while looking up tutorials.

I'd love to support FG as its the only option I have to play d&d at this stage in my life(friends all live in different cities and such) but for those of us who buy a product only to have it become obsolete in less than a year that feels pretty shitty. So I hope that is not the case and that the devs offer a decent discount to people in those circumstances.

I'm sorry if this has been addressed before but I was unable to find a clear answer, just speculation and the devs saying they were unsure.

They haven't released any information about the actual costs yet. But they have mentioned that they are going to be giving discounts to players with licenses. How much of a discount also depends on when you purchased it compared to when the update is released. From what it sounds like if you purchased it almost directly before the update it would be free or even something like 90% off. While if you purchase it like 2-3 years ago you would have to pay a bit more.

Now, this can change at any time but it does seem like they developers are willing to work with license holders to ensure that they don't feel ripped off for having to pay for the update.

Edit: Drat, beaten by a Developer.

[LordEntrails]

@Ulundill (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/member.php?51951-Ulundill)
ddavidson is Doug and the primary (?) owner of SmiteWorks, which owns Fantasy Grounds. I've had FG for about a year now, and everything I've seen and the few interactions I've had with the company outside of the forums (and the many within) show that you really shouldn't be concerned about how you will be treated as a customer. One of the most recent examples you may have noticed is the recent satisfaction guarantee (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?34624-30-day-trial-for-subscriptions-replaced-with-30-day-money-back-guarantee) Doug announced.

Oh, and I noticed no one had welcomed you yet, so belated welcome, glad to have you! Hope you find the community as helpful and friendly as I have.

[Minty23185Fresh]

I didn't see this elsewhere in this thread. I find myself in need of a new laptop. Preparing for the future..
Do you anticipate the system requirements for running Unity built FG to be substantially different than the current system requirements?
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/features/systemreqs.xcp

[damned]

This is purely a guess. Just like there are no definitive answers on Unity release dates or Unity features I suspect that it will be unlikely for definitive specs to be published.
In many ways the Unity engine could be more efficient at things like memory management, multi core capable, able to address more RAM etc.
On the other hand some of the future features of FG - 3d mapping and tokens - will likely require some beefier specs - bearing in mind this is not a FPS required 1080p and 60fps....

I would hazard the minimum specs at an Intel M3 or i3 CPU and 4GB RAM but would always recommend an i5 and 8GB of RAM. If you do other gaming then the i5/8gb would be your minimum and you would also be paying a lot of attention to your graphics card/chip/memory.

[Ulundill]

Thanks LordEntrails, 7H3LaughingMan and ddavison
Thanks for answering my questions, from the sounds of it the Devs have a pretty fair plan in mind. All of those solutions seems pretty good to me. Time to start getting used to the program so I can be proficient with it by the time the unity version comes out.

[dulux-oz]

Time to start getting used to the program so I can be proficient with it by the time the unity version comes out.

Hi Ulundill,

If you haven't done so already, let me encourage you to take a look at some of the great Tutorial Videos available on the Fantasy Grounds Wiki (and on YouTube). Damn's are good, as are Xorn's, and people seem to like mine as well (mine are also available from the links in my sig, below).

Start with the ones on the CoreRPG, because the CoreRPG forms the foundation of just about all the RPGs we play with Fantasy Grounds - so by learning how to use FG with the CoreRPG you'll learn about 80% of what you'll need to know to play any RPG with Fantasy Grounds. Once you've gone through the CoreRPG Videos you can then go on to Videos about your chosen RPG.

When you get familiar with the basic Fantasy Grounds product the next step is to check out some of the Extensions (Plug-Ins) for FG, such as the DOE: Sound, DOE: Locations, DOE: Weather and DOE: Organisations Extensions (to name a but a few).

And keep on asking questions - we're a pretty friendly lot here, and we love answering questions.

Cheers

[ddavison]

I didn't see this elsewhere in this thread. I find myself in need of a new laptop. Preparing for the future..
Do you anticipate the system requirements for running Unity built FG to be substantially different than the current system requirements?
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/features/systemreqs.xcp

We don't have the exact specs planned out yet, but since this will have support in the future for 3D environments featuring multiple light sources, you will probably want significantly better specs than what you would normally use to run FG. That said, we are rewriting the way FG interacts with and loads resources into memory so that we don't bounce up against RAM limitations as quickly as we do in the current environment.

[Nylanfs]

But will it need more than 64k of RAM? :-)

[Mortar]

But will it need more than 64k of RAM? :-)

You'll be fine ��

[damned]

But will it need more than 64k of RAM? :-)

I think that infamous quote was for 640k as opposed to 64k...

[LordEntrails]

I think that infamous quote was for 640k as opposed to 64k...
My Vic20 had the RAM upgrade, 4K.

[Minty23185Fresh]

Oh-oh! Age is starting to bleed through. 64k was Apple ][+ and Commodor 64. 640k was original 8080 IBM PC. I can't remember what Radio Shack's micro had. My RCA COSMAC ELF had 256 bytes out of the box (kit). I think IMSAI and Altair came with 4K.

[Trenloe]

You lucky, lucky people! I had a ZX-81 - came with 1KB of RAM. You could upgrade it to 16KB with a nice looking RAM pack on the back - that wobbled and caused system crashes all the time...

Look at the sleek beast!

https://primrosebank.net/computers/zx81/ZX81.jpg

[Zacchaeus]

Luxury! When I were t'lad we didn't have computers ..... :D

[Patou]

Lol.. who remembers the TRS-80 Color Computer.... hehe.

I really can't wait to see and be tantalized by what you guys are doing with the upcoming FG. I find that the most awesome thing about this software is the ability to setup easy encounters all within your story line. Now to see future cool graphic stuff will enhance the visual aspect of the game for sure but opening a module and having everything there at your fingertips is a real treat. As a 5E DM since 1987 I can tell you it's awesome. The only thing left to speed up my games would be the FoW since that is where I loose time when the maps are tricky and my players begin to split up.

Ooooo it's going to be good stuff!

[DrakosDJ]

Lol.. who remembers the TRS-80 Color Computer.... hehe.

I really can't wait to see and be tantalized by what you guys are doing with the upcoming FG. I find that the most awesome thing about this software is the ability to setup easy encounters all within your story line. Now to see future cool graphic stuff will enhance the visual aspect of the game for sure but opening a module and having everything there at your fingertips is a real treat. As a 5E DM since 1987 I can tell you it's awesome. The only thing left to speed up my games would be the FoW since that is where I loose time when the maps are tricky and my players begin to split up.

Ooooo it's going to be good stuff!

I remember the TRS-80, I still have my CoCo II and CoCo 3. But my first one was the TRS Micro-10. It had 4k ram (upgradable to add 16k via big packl plugged in the back). Used a casset tape for storage :). I even have some nice TRS-80 Color Computer emulators for my PC. I have some books that list the Assembly code for the operating system too. It's funny when you boot the CoCo's and displays that the operating system was by Microsoft.

[kalmarjan]

Lol.. who remembers the TRS-80 Color Computer.... hehe.

I really can't wait to see and be tantalized by what you guys are doing with the upcoming FG. I find that the most awesome thing about this software is the ability to setup easy encounters all within your story line. Now to see future cool graphic stuff will enhance the visual aspect of the game for sure but opening a module and having everything there at your fingertips is a real treat. As a 5E DM since 1987 I can tell you it's awesome. The only thing left to speed up my games would be the FoW since that is where I loose time when the maps are tricky and my players begin to split up.

Ooooo it's going to be good stuff!

I had one of those beasts, complete with a tape drive!

[wbcreighton]

You lucky, lucky people! I had a ZX-81 - came with 1KB of RAM. You could upgrade it to 16KB with a nice looking RAM pack on the back - that wobbled and caused system crashes all the time...

Look at the sleek beast!

https://primrosebank.net/computers/zx81/ZX81.jpg


I still have mine tucked away in the closet, and I have the printer too.

[Trenloe]

I still have mine tucked away in the closet, and I have the printer too.
Oh wow, amazing! I saved forever to get one of those printers, and then hardly used it - nice aroma when printing (not!).

[Callum]

I still have mine tucked away in the closet, and I have the printer too.

The one with the roll of silver paper?

[Oberoten]

My first was a zx-80. Black & white graphics,4k memory. And had to shut down the screen to run processes...

[dulux-oz]

The first I ever used was an Apple IIe we had at school, plus an Apricot that dad's work had (I think I got to the Aplle first, but it was a close thing).

The first I ever actually owned was an Amiga 500 with an external FDD and the 1Mb RAM Upgrade - good times (curse you Bard's Tale I, II & III).

[Patou]

The first I ever used was an Apple IIe we had at school, plus an Apricot that dad's work had (I think I got to the Aplle first, but it was a close thing).

The first I ever actually owned was an Amiga 500 with an external FDD and the 1Mb RAM Upgrade - good times (curse you Bard's Tale I, II & III).

Ahhhh Bard's Tale:)

[HavocSmurf]

Awesome. I've actually created the Bards Tale I as a home brew module (still in development, just finished off Kylearns Tower and moving onto Mangers). I have a group going through it now, with a second to start shortly. I'm getting good feedback on it so far. It stays true to bones of the story, but I've added so much more! What a labor of love it is :o

[Patou]

Back to the future of FG... with the new release of V3.2 and what we are seeing in the cool improvements with layout and sorting; are these things that we will be seeing with the new upcoming FG Unity version. Will all this layout change again? Are we getting little bits of things to come?

David's video on Volo's guide is pretty awesome. All this cool stuff has me pretty hyped. I'm even more eager to make my own modules with such a layout....if it is user friendly.

Thank you

[LordEntrails]

Personally I would expect the FGU interface to be significantly different.

Now, from what I recall Moon and Doug have said publicly, is that all the changes we've seen so far (i.e. 3.2) are ones that are also being made in FGU and/or are ones that take us in the direction of what they envision for FGU. So, I guess it's a taste of things to come. And though change is scary, I trust they will give us a better VTT in the end :)

[ddavison]

Back to the future of FG... with the new release of V3.2 and what we are seeing in the cool improvements with layout and sorting; are these things that we will be seeing with the new upcoming FG Unity version. Will all this layout change again? Are we getting little bits of things to come?

David's video on Volo's guide is pretty awesome. All this cool stuff has me pretty hyped. I'm even more eager to make my own modules with such a layout....if it is user friendly.

Thank you

These were changes that we considered holding for FGU but since the plan all along is for FGU to be backward compatible with our extensive library of stuff, these changes will come forward directly into FGU when it launches. For FGU, you are going to see lots of changes in networking, images and support for many things that are not possible at all with FG classic. I won't go into too much detail just yet because I don't want to start the hype train too early. We are looking into a lot of cool stuff but most of that cool stuff hasn't been built or integrated yet.

[Patou]

These were changes that we considered holding for FGU but since the plan all along is for FGU to be backward compatible with our extensive library of stuff, these changes will come forward directly into FGU when it launches. For FGU, you are going to see lots of changes in networking, images and support for many things that are not possible at all with FG classic. I won't go into too much detail just yet because I don't want to start the hype train too early. We are looking into a lot of cool stuff but most of that cool stuff hasn't been built or integrated yet.

Oh boy Oh boy.. Oh boy!.. Sounds good Doug! Thanks for the follow-up sir:)

[pindercarl]

To piggyback on what Doug said, John is keeping the FGU codebase up-to-date with the FG codebase. As new features, like the masterlist, are added, both versions are updated. Things like the new shortcut bar just magically worked when John integrated the changes. No one was more surprised that I was.

[damned]

Hey pindercarl what is this shortcut bar you talk of?

[pindercarl]

That's panel on the left hand side with all the buttons, NPC, PC, Maps, etc. The windowclass in the CoreRPG refers to this as the shortcutbar, so that's what I'm used to calling it.

[damned]

That's panel on the left hand side with all the buttons, NPC, PC, Maps, etc. The windowclass in the CoreRPG refers to this as the shortcutbar, so that's what I'm used to calling it.

Gotcha - understood. I have been playing with that :)

[dulux-oz]

That's panel on the left hand side with all the buttons, NPC, PC, Maps, etc. The windowclass in the CoreRPG refers to this as the shortcutbar, so that's what I'm used to calling it.

Do you mean the right-hand side? If so most people I know call it the Menubar or the Sidebar (and yes, the xml code calls it "shortcutbar") :)

[pindercarl]

Sorry, yes, the right hand side.

[LordEntrails]

Do you mean the right-hand side? If so most people I know call it the Menubar or the Sidebar (and yes, the xml code calls it "shortcutbar") :)
Don't scare him away! Carl doesn't visit us often.

I would say it's because he's shy, but I think its really because Doug has him in a cave slaving away on FGU!

[ddavison]

Don't scare him away! Carl doesn't visit us often.

I would say it's because he's shy, but I think its really because Doug has him in a cave slaving away on FGU!

It's a cave surrounded by smog -- and pretty people.

[dulux-oz]

Don't scare him away! Carl doesn't visit us often.

No, you're right! You need to visit us more often Carl - I can send you a hand drill via UPS (that's the Unity Parcel Service) so you can dig your way out of the cave Doug's got you in, if you like :)

Cheers

[kaeln]

Hi everyone,

I am new on this forum. I am planning to purchase an ultimate license soon, but am waiting for the release of Unity.

Does anyone know when this is expected? Somehow I could not find a precise info on it (which may be due to my poor search skills).

Also, can a player with the ultimate license allow someone with a demo license to be the GM?

[dulux-oz]

Hi kaeln, and Welcome! to the Community,

The boys at SmiteWorks have not given us a release date for FG-Unity, and won't until its closer to being ready. The best we've gotten is maybe sometime in late 2017, maybe.

My advice is don't wait, join us now! I got my Ultimate License back in v2.7 (I think it was) in 2011-12, and I've enjoyed free upgrades since then. The upgrade price to FG-Unity is also something that is unknown at this stage, but SmiteWorks have indicated that it might depend upon how long you've held your existing license.

So jump on board - you won't regret doing so.

In relation to your 2nd question - no, the GM needs to have a Full or an Ultimate License. A Demo License GM can only have one player, who must be a demo as License as well (unless things have changed recently) :)

Also, if you haven't done so already, let me encourage you to take a look at some of the great Tutorial Videos available on the Fantasy Grounds Wiki (and on YouTube). Damn's are good, as are Xorn's, and people seem to like mine as well (mine are also available from the links in my sig, below).

Start with the ones on the CoreRPG, because the CoreRPG forms the foundation of just about all the RPGs we play with Fantasy Grounds - so by learning how to use FG with the CoreRPG you'll learn about 80% of what you'll need to know to play any RPG with Fantasy Grounds. Once you've gone through the CoreRPG Videos you can then go on to Videos about your chosen RPG.

When you get familiar with the basic Fantasy Grounds product the next step is to check out some of the Extensions (Plug-Ins) for FG, such as the DOE: Sound, DOE: Locations, DOE: Weather and DOE: Organisations Extensions (to name a but a few).

And keep on asking questions - we're a pretty friendly lot here, and we love answering questions.

Cheers

[damned]

Buy FG for what it is today.
What FG will be like in the future will only be better.
You wont have to rebuy it but you will have to pay some small upgrade fee.

[kaeln]

Thanks for your fast responses & for the videos, I will check them out.

I did not realize Unity was so far away; I assumed it would come out early 2017 or something. Is there any periodic sales on ultimate licenses?

Also just to be clear regarding GM arrangements: if A has ultimate license, B has a full license and the rest of the players C, D & E have demo licenses. Can both A & B be GM for the whole group? In otherword, would B full license allow him to GM for the group since A is making the demo license benefit form his ultimate? Or are the rules of B license the only ones applied in that situation?

[damned]

Hi kaeln it will be ready when its ready...
Im thinking it could be end Q2 2017 but Im pulling that number out of some mystically charged ether...
Its a massive port and rebuild and they want it to be right.

No the Ultimate license holder has to be the GM when there are Demos involved.
If you have a group that swaps GMs have a look at the 4pack on steam - 4full for the price of 3.
These do go on sale but you will need to keep an eye on the store to see when they go on sale.
Otherwise at Steams 2 big sales FG seems to usually also go on sale.

[ddavison]

We are not allowed to announce any sales in advance; however, historically we have participated in a few big sales each year that coincides with big sales on Steam.

[Lonewolf]

Hi kaeln it will be ready when its ready...I'm thinking it could be end Q2 2017 but Im pulling that number out of some mystically charged ether... Oh i *love* that answer.... Reminded of another I recently used this week...

A better answer is.. this is hard. It is backward compatible because we love our customers. However we need time to get the best possible design. For muggles the process can be explained as: https://twitter.com/pjf/status/799328354570682368 :p

The time to do this is a guess based on how long a small matter of programming (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_matter_of_programming) can take. :confused:

So lots more coding, crying and coffee and it will be awesome.:D

We can all wait. It will be ready when it is ready.

[kaeln]

Thanks to all, very friendly forum indeed!

I will be on the lookout for the next steam sale :)

[Bidmaron]

Personally, I love how the devs keep improving what we have while programming the Unity version. What we have is so awesome, I am willing to let Unity come when it will, and I know I'll wonder how we ever got along without it.

One aspect I haven't seen addressed though is what I am most interested in. Can SW address how the scripting will work in Unity? The ability to program FG is probably its best feature, and I know it will be retained. Just curious if folks can address whether we retain LUA or will there be an additional scripting language available?

[ddavison]

The biggest challenge we have with the Unity port is due to our decision to keep all the current functionality and then enhance it. The Unity version will be able to use the existing LUA scripts, with possibly some modifications, but generally intact.

[Full Bleed]

Here is a feature I haven't heard mentioned, but hope to see in FGU: Custom Key Bindings.

Is that on the FGU feature list?

[Minty23185Fresh]

Blah, blah, blah, Unity, blah,blah!
I know that sounds negative. But the point is why wait? One can sit on the side lines and wait, and wait, and wait. I could too. Hold my breath until my face was purple and miss a lot of great RPG in the meantime. There's always going to be something great around the corner, I too am looking forward to Unity, but I am not going to put my life on hold waiting for it. Jump in. The water's great, you won't be sorry.

[LordEntrails]

Here is a feature I haven't heard mentioned, but hope to see in FGU: Custom Key Bindings.

Is that on the FGU feature list?

The only things SW has said is on the FGU feature list is current functionality (including compatibility with current content). Everything outside of that is out of scope for initial implementation. There are things we (non-SW) can speculate they will include initially or soon after, but they have not (and I suspect will not) promise anything beyond that.

Anything you would like them to consider should be added to the wishlist; https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/

[kaeln]

Blah, blah, blah, Unity, blah,blah!
I know that sounds negative. But the point is why wait? One can sit on the side lines and wait, and wait, and wait. I could too. Hold my breath until my face was purple and miss a lot of great RPG in the meantime. There's always going to be something great around the corner, I too am looking forward to Unity, but I am not going to put my life on hold waiting for it. Jump in. The water's great, you won't be sorry.

My concern was mostly to potential buy the 'current' version and have to repay for the next iteration. But I see that's not the plan so the concern is null and void :)

[Bidmaron]

I understood LUA would be retained (otherwise existing stuff would break). I just wondered if you folks are contemplating some additional scripting capability.

[kaeln]

25% on the autumn sale seemed good enough for me to jump on board... Here I am!

[damned]

Welcome again kaeln!

[jajen2003]

I've had my first license since 23 July 2006, and my second license since 28 Aug 2008.

How much do you estimate the FGU upgrade will be for someone in my position?

[damned]

I've had my first license since 23 July 2006, and my second license since 28 Aug 2008.

How much do you estimate the FGU upgrade will be for someone in my position?

Full price. You have gotten many years of service from your license.
At this stage the only indication has been that it might be pay what you want with a minimum of $5 and $15 for Full and Standard....

[jajen2003]

Full price. You have gotten many years of service from your license.
At this stage the only indication has been that it might be pay what you want with a minimum of $5 and $15 for Full and Standard....

Doug knows I'm not a cheap skate. I was just curious! :D

I'll gladly keep supporting what Doug and Co. are doing until I fail my last Intelligence saving throw.

[damned]

Doug knows I'm not a cheap skate. I was just curious! :D

I'll gladly keep supporting what Doug and Co. are doing until I fail my last Intelligence saving throw.

Im just messing with you. I think the only people that are likely to be offered lower than this very reasonable upgrade are the people who have just bought it very recently.

[jajen2003]

We've waited this long. What's a little longer for good quality content.

It's been cool to see the changes that this software has went through in 10 years. It was a little shaky at first. I'm glad you guys have gotten a pretty good wrangle on it. My exclusive DM tool.

[ddavison]

We haven't settled on a final price and recommended discount levels yet .

[gqwebb]

Agreed! I can not wait for this.

https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/nodding_clint_eastwood.gif

[Full Bleed]

The only things SW has said is on the FGU feature list is current functionality (including compatibility with current content). Everything outside of that is out of scope for initial implementation. There are things we (non-SW) can speculate they will include initially or soon after, but they have not (and I suspect will not) promise anything beyond that.

Anything you would like them to consider should be added to the wishlist; https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/
Not a particularly useful response.

None of us knows what default tools/plugins FGU currently has or what the devs are working with while building it. As such, there are certainly things that they could note besides, "We can only promise it will have Fantasy Grounds functionality as you know it." It could, for example, already have key-binding functionality (especially considering how common it is in modern software interfaces... and how essential it would be to properly support more platforms... something FGU is supposed to do.) If they don't want to comment on it, that's one thing. But if we're really to believe that all FGU will offer out of the gate is a virtual clone of the UI we have now, without any improvements... *smh*

I get that the only real "promise" they've made so far is to support current content... but if the UI is *exactly* the same as what we have right now... and they've made zero changes/improvements thus far... I'd be shocked.

For example here's a Unity plugin from 2012 that only took me a couple minutes to look up: https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/rebind-bindable-keys-for-your-games-released.156355/

[damned]

Not a particularly useful response.

None of us knows what default tools/plugins FGU currently has or what the devs are working with while building it. As such, there are certainly things that they could note besides, "We can only promise it will have Fantasy Grounds functionality as you know it." It could, for example, already have key-binding functionality (especially considering how common it is in modern software interfaces... and how essential it would be to properly support more platforms... something FGU is supposed to do.) If they don't want to comment on it, that's one thing. But if we're really to believe that all FGU will offer out of the gate is a virtual clone of the UI we have now, without any improvements... *smh*

I get that the only real "promise" they've made so far is to support current content... but if the UI is *exactly* the same as what we have right now... and they've made zero changes/improvements thus far... I'd be shocked.

For example here's a Unity plugin from 2012 that only took me a couple minutes to look up: https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/rebind-bindable-keys-for-your-games-released.156355/

how to respond to this post?
dont take this the wrong way - as far as i can tell you *might* be the *only* person that has requested custom key-binding since 2006. as important as it might be to you, as crucial a feature as you might think it is - its quite possible that very few others share your opinion. its not like remapping wasd to okl; there are few key bindings in use and those that are (f1-12 x 8) are very customisable.
but ultimately, as lord entrails says - the only thing they have stated publicly is to keeping compatibility with as much dlc as possible.
i know as much - or as little - as anyone else who frequents the forums.
if you want it, vote for it on the wishlist - that is the one in the lead developers signature. if its not on the wishlist - add it.
there are lots of things on lots of peoples wishlists. maybe we will all get lucky.

[Varsuuk]

Hey, did anyone over at SW ever show Apple how neat it would be to have FG running on the iPad? If not, they might be persuaded to toss a few bucks into development - I know >I'd< use it as an excuse to upgrade my iPad Pro 9.7 to the next full sized iPad...imajussayin... :)

[Bidmaron]

Varsuuk this has come up over and over as a cursory search would reveal. It is virtually guaranteed not to happen until unity implemented. Plus I don't think it will be as useful as folks are thinking. Trying to do chat on virtual key board would blow large chunks. And if you use a keyboard why not just use a laptop and have more real estate.
Personally, I hope they never do it and focus on the vastly more important useability issues.

[epithet]

I'd enjoy the iPad functionality, personally. I don't "chat" other than to send a rare secret message, my group uses Discord for voice communication. Also, his post wasn't so much about iDevice apps as about approaching Apple for development support.

More important than an iPad app, I think, would be a native version for Mac OS.

[Varsuuk]

Varsuuk this has come up over and over as a cursory search would reveal. It is virtually guaranteed not to happen until unity implemented. Plus I don't think it will be as useful as folks are thinking. Trying to do chat on virtual key board would blow large chunks. And if you use a keyboard why not just use a laptop and have more real estate.
Personally, I hope they never do it and focus on the vastly more important useability issues.

A. I'm not hung up on it. I have 4 laptops at home (granted one of the 3 macbooks is old and only runs on AC) My little guy is getting his first laptop this Xmas, a light-ish ~3lb Dell 13").
B. Being able to run on an ipad is totally not about remote play. It is (for me, as why WOULDNT we use a desktop for remote play?) to expand use of FG to tabletop in a simpler than constructing a table (not an option for most with wives and families in a NY suburb that can't afford over 1mm houses, likely good deal over. I've only got a small den, we play in the dining room..

All my players have some sort of tablet. Even if didn't, at home alone we have 3 ipads and 2 large kindle tablets. The really really useful thing for me, would be if could use them as r one map screens for ppl to move characters, target etc. Some typing is fine. As for "ease", people spend waaaaay too much time a day typing texts on their iphones. I don't think the occasional secret note to or from dm will cripple anyone. Keyboard on your tablet case is also a simple solution that is smaller and cheaper than any laptop worth it's salt (silicon?) I don't bother, because I would need the macbook pro as DM. But if we all pulled out even wife's air and like sized laptops on my regular 6 seater table...fahgeddaboudit.

Remote screening to a tablet would rock. hell, if it was easier just allowing a dm to transmit the map to a single tablet would be useful to the fro and to each tablet all the better.


Not asking them to prioritize any such, AM saying if they could come up with a usable workflow for FG at game table where most folks have tablets...it could expand regular use of FG to in-person use as well.

[Varsuuk]

NATIVE Mac is definitely something that. just happen (from my point of view, I'm aware that mac is not the widest of OSes ;) and I only ever used mac on laptop cos wanted to learn ios developement, but then their light/design/purdyness caught on in my household)

I didn't ask about that though because, if i recall, Unity was supposed to allow for native MacOS and Linux builds too.

Yes, I was wondering if it was possible for them to get some sort of sponsorship from Apple so they could tweak Microsoft a bit with "can run on ios too" thing from apple ;)

[LordEntrails]

Not a particularly useful response.

None of us knows what default tools/plugins FGU currently has or what the devs are working with while building it. As such, there are certainly things that they could note besides, "We can only promise it will have Fantasy Grounds functionality as you know it." It could, for example, already have key-binding functionality (especially considering how common it is in modern software interfaces... and how essential it would be to properly support more platforms... something FGU is supposed to do.) If they don't want to comment on it, that's one thing. But if we're really to believe that all FGU will offer out of the gate is a virtual clone of the UI we have now, without any improvements... *smh*

I get that the only real "promise" they've made so far is to support current content... but if the UI is *exactly* the same as what we have right now... and they've made zero changes/improvements thus far... I'd be shocked.

For example here's a Unity plugin from 2012 that only took me a couple minutes to look up: https://forum.unity3d.com/threads/rebind-bindable-keys-for-your-games-released.156355/
I'm sorry you didn't find this useful. I too don't really know what else to say or how to respond.

I guess I could have replied with speculation. But I don't see how that would even remotely be useful.

[Full Bleed]

dont take this the wrong way -
I won't take it the wrong way if you won't take my response the wrong way... ;)


as far as i can tell you *might* be the *only* person that has requested custom key-binding since 2006.
Which is why I'd never waste the time to go to the request site to put it in. I'm not delusional. It's not a glamorous feature that would get any voter support. But it is "key" to supporting more devices and OSs (which, again, has been mentioned numerous times as a reason for moving to Unity). So key that I hesitated to ask whether or not it was going to be a part of FGU at all... (as it might just be too obvious to a developer).

It's also key to supporting usage for certain handicaps... but I know there would not be enough handicapped people to create a demand for that use-case (and most have custom programs and devices for certain workarounds that key-mapping would assist with.)

Oh... and while I'm pointing out things that seem somewhat obvious to me... other possible benefits for key-mapping: "Intuitiveness" and "Ease of Cross-VTT Adoption". One of the biggest knocks I've seen against FG (and not necessarily a viewpoint I share) is that the interface isn't "intuitive". Give people the ability to keymap principal UI action and that will address some of those concerns. And as far as ease of cross-vtt adoption goes, FG is a commercial piece of software that is always looking to pull users from competing products. And when they do get their eyes/fingers onboard, it would be nice if users could setup things to react in a way that is more familiar to them... so they aren't distracted by FG's "weird way" of doing something just because it is different from what they're used to. I've run into this a lot lately as a group of Maptool and Roll20 users I game with have begun dipping their toes into the FG waters for their 5e games.


And, finally, I really wasn't looking to be pointed to the request site (yet again) or become the champion for the feature. I was, principally, inquiring if it was something that might be a part of their current road map or, more interestingly, whether it was already a part of their development toolset (which, as noted, it may very well be--thus, forgoing the need to "request" it in the first place.) This is a thread specifically about the "Fantasy Ground Unity Engine". I understand that there are going to be questions only the devs can answer.

[Zacchaeus]

I think you should add this to the wish list if it's not there already. The developers do actually look at that list and they do use it to road map the future development.

You make a very good case - the fact that, for example, I wouldn't use the keyboard for anything and would therefore not see key mapping as essential or even desirable is neither here nor there - and so adding it to the wish list with the kind of arguement you have used above would certainly be food for thought if nothing else. Also, as you have pointed out, it may be an easy thing to implement.

Whatever, it is better that it is on the list than not on it at all, so I would ask that you do add it.

[Nickademus]

I would vote for key-mapping. It is one of the first things I always look for when using new software or playing a new game. It is one of the first things I did when I got Notepad++ to use for FG. I doubt I would have bothered to make modules for the community without the shortcuts I assigned.

[Zacchaeus]

I would vote for key-mapping. It is one of the first things I always look for when using new software or playing a new game. It is one of the first things I did when I got Notepad++ to use for FG. I doubt I would have bothered to make modules for the community without the shortcuts I assigned.

I'd be interested in what you use keyboard shortcuts for in Notepad++. It's always interesting to me what people use keyboard shortcuts for, since I will exclusively use the mouse for everything apart from cutting and pasting. The trouble I always have with keyboard shortcuts is remembering them in the first place. I also wonder if it's an exclusively programmer thing, since many programmers seem to use keyboard shortcuts. Possibly this might be becasue they use them on a daily basis.

[dulux-oz]

Generally we use keyboard shortcuts when we code because we can do it quicker then with a mouse. Yes, it takes time to learn a shortcut, but if you use the same ones over and over again in different applications (to do the same or similar tasks, of course) they quickly become embedded in your brain.

Also, a lot of us (especially the old-timers) use nothing but the command line to do all of our configuration and administration of servers, routers, etc.

[Ken L]

I wonder why there's been such a media blackout here. Newer up coming VTTs are showing their capabilities and what we've seen so far is just a small gif of dynamic lighting.

[Zacchaeus]

I wonder why there's been such a media blackout here. Newer up coming VTTs are showing their capabilities and what we've seen so far is just a small gif of dynamic lighting.

I think the reasons have been well laid out by both ddavison and Moon Wizard in various posts in this and in other threads.

[Ken L]

I think the reasons have been well laid out by both ddavison and Moon Wizard in various posts in this and in other threads.

I've read, yes. Even showing some WIP is better than nothing. And I understand their takes on 'purchasing the software as it is now' compared to what it could be (vapor ware). That still doesn't settle that there's quite a bit of interest in the Unity re-build given the rise of other VTTs which put highlights on the wrinkles and age FG has. It's more many are interested in what the future holds, and looks like, with a kind of assurance that it can hold its ground vs the competition going forward.

[Nickademus]

I'd be interested in what you use keyboard shortcuts for in Notepad++. It's always interesting to me what people use keyboard shortcuts for, since I will exclusively use the mouse for everything apart from cutting and pasting. The trouble I always have with keyboard shortcuts is remembering them in the first place. I also wonder if it's an exclusively programmer thing, since many programmers seem to use keyboard shortcuts. Possibly this might be becasue they use them on a daily basis.

I'm not sure how many of these are default and how many I changed, but when I'm working on modules I use the follow shortcuts regularly:

Ctrl+Q to close a file
Ctrl+W to join lines (remove page breaks)
Ctrl+E to check XML syntax (from plugin)
Ctrl+D to duplicate a line or selection
Ctrl+Shift+F to find-in-files
Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V for the obvious movement of data
Ctrl+S to save
Ctrl+Z because...


Notice all these are mapped to my left hand. This is because I use my mouse in my right in tandem with the short cuts. For instance, I'll select some text from a pdf (which always has line breaks), Ctrl+C, click on Notepad++, Ctrl+V, hold Shift, click on the top of line of the pasted text, Ctrl+W to join the lines. By doing this I can insert a single line of text from a multi-line pdf entry in under two seconds. Much preferable to using just the mouse.

I know a lot of artist that have keyboard shortcuts. I use a lot more when I'm working in PhotoShop, but each not as often.

[leozelig]

I've read, yes. Even showing some WIP is better than nothing. And I understand their takes on 'purchasing the software as it is now' compared to what it could be (vapor ware). That still doesn't settle that there's quite a bit of interest in the Unity re-build given the rise of other VTTs which put highlights on the wrinkles and age FG has. It's more many are interested in what the future holds, and looks like, with a kind of assurance that it can hold its ground vs the competition going forward.

It's a fair point - I wouldn't mind seeing a screenshot or two at some point. Actually, I have wondered why new features are still being added to FG 3.2 instead of going full steam ahead with Unity. Don't get me wrong, the new stuff is cool, and I'm sure they're working hard on FG Unity, but other than bug fixes, I don't have much interest in seeing new features for the current version.

[LordEntrails]

It's a fair point - I wouldn't mind seeing a screenshot or two at some point. Actually, I have wondered why new features are still being added to FG 3.2 instead of going full steam ahead with Unity. Don't get me wrong, the new stuff is cool, and I'm sure they're working hard on FG Unity, but other than bug fixes, I don't have much interest in seeing new features for the current version.
On this, the Devs have said that significant improvements that they are making in 3.x are either changes or improvements that they can code once and (mostly) implement in both the 3.x build series and in the Unity build, or are changes made as part of base improvement in architecture for Unity leveraging. Or to say it this way; they are changes/functions they want to put in place in Unity and their is minimal extra work to implement in 3.x.

As for glimpses of things to come. Yes it is exciting as a user. As an applications engineer and pre-sales engineer, it's almost always a horrible idea to show customers proof of concept or feasibility level things. Not because you don't want to provide the functions, but because they are rough, the behavior and UI is approximate, and when you finally work through the details some aspect works differently than what you showed. And customers will then get upset.

I know you say you won't. That you understand that it's just an alpha test. That you won't hold the developers to it. But someone will. And they will do so vocally, aggressively and like a wounded animal.

How many VTT demo's have you seen out there that show some REALLY cool possibilities? Yet, how many of them actually have production ready software? I don't know of a single one that has viable entered the market with production ready software in several years.

It's easy to make a proof of concept that demos impressively. It's hard to produce a piece of software that will work for 99.9% of your customers 99.9% of the time. And until you can be sure you can deliver what you show in a time frame that your customer expects (not a time frame you tell them to expect), then to show them possibilities is a dangerous.

[Bidmaron]

People who want flash and 'cool' features need to step back and remember the disaster that WotC tried to do. Even with the resources the huge parent company could bring to bear, their attempt at a 3d D&D engine catastrophically failed, but only after the investment of millions. Remember, it was so bad that they would not let anyone (including FG) attempt to automate D&D 4E. They got so desperate, that, at one point, they stole the FG code that did 3d dice rolls -- to the point that SW had to send them a cease and desist order, if I remember correctly.

I want to see Unity for the memory improvements and the graphics support. But not for 3d and lighting and true line of sight. Those are wow things that don't help you create a more engaging story. There are plenty of video RPGs out there if 3d is what you want.

People are just not thinking this through very well. Look how hard it is to do your own maps today and the debate on mapping tools. Just imagine how much more difficult it will be in 3d.

[Zacchaeus]

Yeah but look what Carl was doing with Tabletop Connect before he joined SW. :D

[Varsuuk]

I don't care about lighting (I think it's a really good thing, don't get me wrong - it's not on my "My gaming would change if" list), I DO think that Line of sight "auto-unmasking" WOULD make my gaming better (as option, of course) and I KNOW the first thing I'd be excited about is better performance (not that it is ill-performing, but better perf gives you leeway to ADD hoggy features) and native platform versions and presumably 64bit version to make use of our 32GB or whatever :)

I'm not clamoring for features because I am a developer and if I had a smart boss (I do really, but upper upper bosses... not always) he would let me redo all of the FIX adapter all at once with no new (other than emergent ones) features and QA against prior functionality. AFTER that, I'd go to town planning regular feature releases/testing.

BUT... just the damn new engine that allows nativeness (?not a word huh...) and stuff gets me pumped.


I never talk about it, but I AM super excited about the future build. Hell, I wish I could be contributing code to it :( hehehe

[damned]

I'm not sure how many of these are default and how many I changed, but when I'm working on modules I use the follow shortcuts regularly:

Ctrl+Q to close a file
Ctrl+W to join lines (remove page breaks)
Ctrl+E to check XML syntax (from plugin)
Ctrl+D to duplicate a line or selection
Ctrl+Shift+F to find-in-files
Ctrl+A, Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V for the obvious movement of data
Ctrl+S to save
Ctrl+Z because...


Notice all these are mapped to my left hand. This is because I use my mouse in my right in tandem with the short cuts. For instance, I'll select some text from a pdf (which always has line breaks), Ctrl+C, click on Notepad++, Ctrl+V, hold Shift, click on the top of line of the pasted text, Ctrl+W to join the lines. By doing this I can insert a single line of text from a multi-line pdf entry in under two seconds. Much preferable to using just the mouse.

I know a lot of artist that have keyboard shortcuts. I use a lot more when I'm working in PhotoShop, but each not as often.

I use a bunch of custom keys in notepad++ for use with par5e.
What key-remapping do you see as useful for use within Fantasy Grounds?

[damned]

It's a fair point - I wouldn't mind seeing a screenshot or two at some point. Actually, I have wondered why new features are still being added to FG 3.2 instead of going full steam ahead with Unity. Don't get me wrong, the new stuff is cool, and I'm sure they're working hard on FG Unity, but other than bug fixes, I don't have much interest in seeing new features for the current version.

FGU is at least 3years into its development already. If the current FG had stood still during this time there wouldnt have been a 5e license and there wouldnt be the cash flow that has generated which helps fund the next version.
A lot of the changes implemented in FG3 have been implemented to assist with moving rulesets and content towards formats that will work better with FGU as well.
Im also happy with the current feature set but a lot of the changes we see are changes to assist with long term (FGU) goals.

[Bidmaron]

Well, I guess overall I trust that SW will make good decisions on resource application and bring things to Unity when it makes the most sense. I just appreciate that they have kept the new features coming, and I believe they have earned our trust. I look forward to not having to take things out to make room all the time, and the ability to include images wherever we want instead of the images list and reference documents.

[Nickademus]

I use a bunch of custom keys in notepad++ for use with par5e.
What key-remapping do you see as useful for use within Fantasy Grounds?

I'd have to think about it or play around in FG with the ability active to really know (as that is what I normally do when using a new program). But from memory, I know I would remap the 'Shift crit damage' and 'Shift ASSIST skill roll' so they didn't interfere with hotbars. I'd want to key map something to set the keyboard focus to the chat window as well if I could. Sometimes Esc does this, but other times I have to use my mouse to get the keyboard focus out of some field on a control in some window (that I may not have touched in over five minutes).

EDIT: Oh, I would definitely want to map a key to center the combat tracker on the currently selected token (though I doubt there is currently code to do this in FG). Double clicking opens the token's data source, but I'd rather it center in the CT (where I can use the link to open the data source if I wanted that).

[Full Bleed]

the fact that, for example, I wouldn't use the keyboard for anything and would therefore not see key mapping as essential or even desirable is neither here nor there
I'm, personally, more interested in key-mapping for devices. Like making the mouse buttons do different things (i.e. to use one of my previous examples regarding ease of cross VTT adoption, when coming from Maptool to FG they each use different mouse buttons to move the map around... MT uses the right button, FG uses the middle mouse button. Since I use the right mouse button in MMO's I play to pan around as well, the right button for panning is more "intuitive" to me. And I think it's things like that that make some new users claim that FG isn't "intuitive"... because they each have different expectations about how some core navigation through the UI should work. It's just bothersome that as I move between programs -often- I'm constantly adjusting to the differences instead of just settling into a normal comfort zone.)

[Qoff]

We can expect the unity version this year?

[Zacchaeus]

Unknown

[ddavison]

We certainly hope so, but we will only look to release it when it is ready.

[HoratioDrank]

We certainly hope so, but we will only look to release it when it is ready.

Doug,

FG is an excellent product that I enjoy using as is. Please don't give in to pressure from a vocal minority to release FG3 before it is ready. I, for one, would much rather wait for a finished, polished product.

CNYGamer99

[ddavison]

I think people are just excited/hopeful for the release and that is a good thing. It is taking a lot of resources and effort, but it is balanced with supporting and maintaining the current version. Software is always hard to estimate for timelines when you are moving into new territory, but at least we don't have any hard and fast deadlines. This is the primary reason why I won't do any sort of Kickstarter until we know for certain with we will be finished. Once you've taken money from people, I view that as a hard deadline to get product delivered. I've personally backed Kickstarters where that wasn't observed and I was dissatisfied with the result.

[gqwebb]

Sure we couldn't see a demo ;)

https://www.auckland.ac.nz/theinsideword/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/money-gif.gif

[JohnD]

I think people are just excited/hopeful for the release and that is a good thing. It is taking a lot of resources and effort, but it is balanced with supporting and maintaining the current version. Software is always hard to estimate for timelines when you are moving into new territory, but at least we don't have any hard and fast deadlines. This is the primary reason why I won't do any sort of Kickstarter until we know for certain with we will be finished. Once you've taken money from people, I view that as a hard deadline to get product delivered. I've personally backed Kickstarters where that wasn't observed and I was dissatisfied with the result.

Amen to that.

[Ken L]

It still would be nice if there was more than a media blackout, akin to a 'heads up in unity land' blog every now and again.

[Zhern]

It still would be nice if there was more than a media blackout, akin to a 'heads up in unity land' blog every now and again.

Yeah, that would be great. Hahah, how about a demo at the end of each sprint? :)

[Moon Wizard]

The challenge is that we're still working on the rebuilding the core plumbing on Unity and prototyping different libraries for long term features at this point, so there's really nothing to talk about or show. Don't worry, Doug is constantly on us about getting Unity stuff done, when he's not on us about getting 5E, Pathfinder and other features built. We will definitely start showing more when we're closer to having something to show. It just doesn't make sense to build up hype for something we don't have a firm grasp on the schedule for. It's a constant trade-off of delivering new features and new content with building the next version.

Cheers,
JPG

[Ken L]

It's a bit worrisome that 2 years in the core plumbing is on shaky footing given SW experience on my end. Then again I work around scrum that includes HW based holds so there's a fab delay with every cycle.

Good luck.

[damned]

It's a bit worrisome that 2 years in the core plumbing is on shaky footing given SW experience on my end. Then again I work around scrum that includes HW based holds so there's a fab delay with every cycle.

Good luck.

Interesting interpretation of what was written...

[Moon Wizard]

It just reaffirms why we don't make these details public.

My message is always to buy and use FG for what it does today.

Regards,
JPG

[leozelig]

I can understand not showing it - the wave of unsolicited feedback that follows would be pretty annoying for a developer. I'm guessing Doug is steering the current version closer to Unity, but I feel like the current version should just focus on bug fixes rather than adding new features so that Unity can be the focus.

[damned]

I can understand not showing it - the wave of unsolicited feedback that follows would be pretty annoying for a developer. I'm guessing Doug is steering the current version closer to Unity, but I feel like the current version should just focus on bug fixes rather than adding new features so that Unity can be the focus.

JPG has said something along the lines that the features he is putting into FG today are ones hes just finished building into FGU.
If FGU tries to drop a tonne of changes in on your campaign files and all the DLC changes all at once so many things are going to be fubar'd all at once and very challenging to fix/troubleshoot.
This way the moulding of the current data into shape for FGU is gradual and managed.
Also I think people continue to forget that FGU promises(?) only to be FG on a better engine at launch time.
If there are new *features* at launch all the better but most of the changes are plumbing (multi-cpu, better graphics rendering, better memory management, ipv6 support, more efficient networking, multi-platform etc) and the changes we are seeing today.
Stuff like dynamic lighting, better dice rollers, 3d graphics may or may not be a part of FGU v1.

Of course all of this is only my understanding of things based on public comments and interpretation. I could be completely wrong... :)

[Varsuuk]

"Better dice rollers?"

You. Sir. Blaspheme!

I can super spin these dice...SUPER spin.
Hell twasnt until like 3rd hour after downloading that I did anything else other than roll dice and roll up character stats then roll more dice... bah I say.

All jokes aside, rolling is definitely cool.
The plumbing is EVERYTHING in what they told us they wanted to do for Unity. I am expecting they will be tweaking and even redesigning some sections as they add features. This prerelease time IS the time to relook at underpinning features because it doesn't affect compatibility with prior releases - you hate to change things one people may be depending in some implementation that now you'd like to refactor.

[damned]

"Better dice rollers?"

You. Sir. Blaspheme!

I can super spin these dice...SUPER spin.
Hell twasnt until like 3rd hour after downloading that I did anything else other than roll dice and roll up character stats then roll more dice... bah I say.

All jokes aside, rolling is definitely cool.
The plumbing is EVERYTHING in what they told us they wanted to do for Unity. I am expecting they will be tweaking and even redesigning some sections as they add features. This prerelease time IS the time to relook at underpinning features because it doesn't affect compatibility with prior releases - you hate to change things one people may be depending in some implementation that now you'd like to refactor.

More options for things like roll and keep, exploding etc.
In the meantime there is... MoreCore!

[leozelig]

JPG has said something along the lines that the features he is putting into FG today are ones hes just finished building into FGU.
If FGU tries to drop a tonne of changes in on your campaign files and all the DLC changes all at once so many things are going to be fubar'd all at once and very challenging to fix/troubleshoot.
This way the moulding of the current data into shape for FGU is gradual and managed.
Also I think people continue to forget that FGU promises(?) only to be FG on a better engine at launch time.
If there are new *features* at launch all the better but most of the changes are plumbing (multi-cpu, better graphics rendering, better memory management, ipv6 support, more efficient networking, multi-platform etc) and the changes we are seeing today.
Stuff like dynamic lighting, better dice rollers, 3d graphics may or may not be a part of FGU v1.

Of course all of this is only my understanding of things based on public comments and interpretation. I could be completely wrong... :)


That's ok with me, I am a big fan of FG just the way it is. Doug did mention a few things like dynamic lighting in a recent interview that would probably be added after the initial launch.

[Zhern]

JPG has said something along the lines that the features he is putting into FG today are ones hes just finished building into FGU.
If FGU tries to drop a tonne of changes in on your campaign files and all the DLC changes all at once so many things are going to be fubar'd all at once and very challenging to fix/troubleshoot.
This way the moulding of the current data into shape for FGU is gradual and managed.
Also I think people continue to forget that FGU promises(?) only to be FG on a better engine at launch time.
If there are new *features* at launch all the better but most of the changes are plumbing (multi-cpu, better graphics rendering, better memory management, ipv6 support, more efficient networking, multi-platform etc) and the changes we are seeing today.
Stuff like dynamic lighting, better dice rollers, 3d graphics may or may not be a part of FGU v1.

Of course all of this is only my understanding of things based on public comments and interpretation. I could be completely wrong... :)

Yep, completely fine with me too. I'm just excited about the opportunity Unity presents for FG. I'm perfectly content with the functionality of the current incarnation of FG as well. I'm a software geek by trade and choice so I'm always going to be excited for new opportunities to stretch functionality.

[Lonewolf]

JPG has said something along the lines that the features he is putting into FG today are ones hes just finished building into FGU.
If FGU tries to drop a tonne of changes in on your campaign files and all the DLC changes all at once so many things are going to be fubar'd all at once and very challenging to fix/troubleshoot.
This way the moulding of the current data into shape for FGU is gradual and managed.
Also I think people continue to forget that FGU promises(?) only to be FG on a better engine at launch time.
If there are new *features* at launch all the better but most of the changes are plumbing (multi-cpu, better graphics rendering, better memory management, ipv6 support, more efficient networking, multi-platform etc) and the changes we are seeing today.
Stuff like dynamic lighting, better dice rollers, 3d graphics may or may not be a part of FGU v1.

Of course all of this is only my understanding of things based on public comments and interpretation. I could be completely wrong... :)I fully agree with that. I don't think you are wrong here. In unity all the plumbing has to change despite that fact that it will look the same to an outside observer.

It might be worth mentioning the old features that move to unity. For example parts of the GUI might look the same but under the hood it is not going to be the the same code. Doing a basic GUI in unity is a pain backside. Even when copying an old layout. However it is totally worth it. Some people will look and see no change in some parts of FGU. Which will actually show the skill of the developer in keeping some things the same. Whilst coding in a new language from the ground up.

I think the hardest in building is it must work with the past and future library of game systems. Plus all the different game systems and yet still have any of the the new features mentioned above. That is a pretty fluid set of requirements that must be tricky to plan for. What this means is fans will have to be very patient here.

[Fjolsvith]

Hi all,

I'm jumping into the discussion of FGU late here. Interestingly, a few interests of mine have coincided to bring me here.

I am an Ultimate license holder of FG and longtime DM. However, I have of late been dabbling with the old Neverwinter Nights 2 game. I really like the NW2 system of 3D role-playing with the exception of two issues. First, is that it is too real-time-ish. Second is that it is focused mainly on 3D and doesn't evoke tabletop, which I love.

One of my other interests was with miniatures, and I stumbled onto resin casting using silicon molds. With all the dungeon tiles (example here (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:555171)) you can buy (or print) for tabletop, I got to thinking, why not have a 3D game with these tiles and miniatures? After some searching, I discovered the Tabletop Connect (TC) Kickstarter and that brought me here.

So, I have two requests for the DEV's to ponder:

First, in your implementation of the TC 3D view, please allow us to import tiles and tilesets similar to the OpenForge (https://masterwork-tools.com/openforge/) 3D initiative.

The second has to do with 3D scanners. In looking at 3D printers to use for making OpenForge tiles, I came across one (https://www.amazon.com/XYZprinting-Vinci-All-Printer-Print/dp/B00OCG91IK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487004840&sr=8-1&keywords=aio+3d+printer)that can "copy" an object. It uses lasers to scan an object you place inside, and uploads the 3D data to a file on your computer. Could you please make it possible for us to import "scans" of our personal miniatures to use in the FGU/TC 3D view.

This would be of VERY high value to me and my players.

Thanks,

Fjolsvith

[Ramtrap]

As an original investor in the Coolest Cooler, and still not having had it shipped to me, a wait for FGU is a walk in the park.

Also, I read through all the forum posts the last hour. Is there any way a sticky could be placed somewhere so that when newbies show up asking about the latest news on the update to Unity, people can point to the original post rather than restating again and again that it's not ready and to just chill out? I've only been using FG since like September (guessing) and it's amazing! Makes me want to get out of what I'm doing to learn more about how you guys do this. Everyone does a tremendous job and I don't know there's enough appreciation going around from the complainers. Ya'll failing your CON checks!

Keep up the great work, mods and devs!

[pindercarl]

17917

Since this came up frequently with Tabletop Connect, I'll jump in here in an effort to manage expectations.

I downloaded a simple floor tile from OpenForge and, as you can see in the attached image, the vertex count of the tile is 1090. Compare this with the 20 vertices in a sample floor tile from Tabletop Connect. Even if the OpenForge tiles were practical for realtime rendering, you're looking at a difference in vertex count with a factor of 54. A typical Tabletop Connect map contains hundreds of floor tiles. With OpenForge data the vertex count of the map would quickly surpass 1M vertices. Additionally, there is other data and considerations when implementing terrain data—levels of detail, texture atlases, shader and material definitions, passability, etc. It was for these reasons, among others, that the importing of 3D models into Tabletop Connect was not a planned feature.

DISCLAIMER: These comments reflect Tabletop Connect and do not, necessarily reflect any features of FGU.