I have a mac and want to run this program. Is it worth the trouble?

[David M]

Hi everybody.
I"m a bit frustrated. I downloaded this program and got it functioning on my Mac. I have been spending HOURS trying to understand pot forwarding and messing about with my router. Nothing, no connection. I run the test feature on FG - nothing. I check the port forwarding test site - connection timed out. I feel like I am just doing random things to try to get this to work.

At this point I'm pretty irritated that I bought this program. I'm not bad with computers, but the number of moving parts that have to be aligned to get this to work is unbelievable. Can anyone offer me a suggestion? I'd appreciate the assistance. I do like the idea of this program...
Thanks
David

[David M]

Should be able to enter an internal address in the FG load in screen?

[Blacky]

First, you should know that most program that works as a online server would need NAT (port forwarding) if FG needs it. It's not FG specifics.

Second, yes you can input any IPv4 (aaa.bbb.ccc.ddd) address or NS (my.domain.com) in FG. For a local internal IP, you can try it on your computer. First launch FG as a GM, then launch a second instance and connect to 127.0.0.1, it should work.

As for your setup, your router manual should explain it best. It's fairly simple, a packet come from the internet and needs to know where to go. Will it go on your Mac, on your PC, on your iPhone, on your TV? It can't magically knows, because once it hit your router's IP (your public IP), it doesn't have more info. So to guide to toward the proper computer, your router needs to route (hence the name) it. The way it's usually done is by using a port (1802 TCP for FG). You needs to tell your router that any TCP packet coming knocking at the 1802 door will be router toward your Mac (meaning, your Mac internal IP in your network).

Another thing to check, firewalls. You need to check that your Mac (sometimes maybe also your router) doesn't block the 1802 port, or it won't work. Some (good) firewall blocks it all unless specifically allowed, if that's the case you need to tell your firewall that Fantasy Grounds is allow to send and receive TCP data from the 1802 port.

[VenomousFiligree]

I have a Mac and have had it running over a number of different routers. I always go to portforward.com any time I need to setup on a new router.

[David M]

Thanks for the suggestions. The program isn't allowing me to input anything under internal address. Is that normal? And I can't run another instance of the program. I have no idea how to do that on a mac. And how do you start as gm? Just Load Campaign?

[Blacky]

Thanks for the suggestions. The program isn't allowing me to input anything under internal address.
What program? Fantasy Grounds?

Yes, in the Join Game window, you're asked the host address. Here you can enter an IP (internal or not, FG doesn't care as long as it's IPv4), a NS, or a server alias (FG specific, more complicated, let's stick with basics).


And I can't run another instance of the program. I have no idea how to do that on a mac.
As for launching another instance of FG, I don't know my last Mac was a MacPlus :rolleyes: I'm guessing, switch back to finder and launch it again? If not, Google probably has the answer, or the manual of your Mac.


And how do you start as gm? Just Load Campaign?
Load campaign or Create new campaign to start as a GM, yes.

[Trenloe]

Just to clarify - the GM cannot change the "internal" address for the GM (load or new campaign). This is the internal IP address (LAN) that FG has detected and will try to use to do port forwarding automatically via UPnP on your router. Check that this internal address is actually what your LAN IP address is.

If you are doing a check via canyouseeme.org or another port forwarding testing site, you have to have a FG campaign fully loaded as this is when FG opens port 1802 ready for player connections.

[David M]

Hmmm I went into my router and made my Lan 192.168.0.1 , my actual WAN IP is 173.34.220.70. Is that the source of the confusion?

[David M]

So then I changed my firewall to make this a DMZ and it says illegal DMZ host.

[Trenloe]

Hmmm I went into my router and made my Lan 192.168.0.1 , my actual WAN IP is 173.34.220.70. Is that the source of the confusion?
If you cannot use UPnP on your router, then the router will need port forwarding setup - this is so that inbound requests on your WAN IP on port 1802 will be forwarded to your Fantasy Grounds internal IP. You will need to setup this port forwarding on port 1802 to the FG internal IP (it will be something like 192.168.0.XX) on your router - make sure your internal IP doesn't change if you are using this approach (rather than relying in the router UPnP to do it automatically).

[Zeus]

First things first, before checking your router/Firewall setup, lets confirm you also don't have OSX's internal firewall also running. Goto System Preferences -> Security and then the Firewall tab. If the Firewall is On, check to ensure FG is listed in the approved apps list. If not, that's problem number 1. If its off, you should be able to start a 2nd instance of FG and have it connect to the first by using localhost/127.0.0.1 address.

If you can connect the 2nd instance of FG but the 1st instance of FG still reports a failure for a Test connection, the problem is most undoubtedly NAT/Portforwarding related. You will need to check your router/NAT servings. If you can't connect the 2nd instance to localhost, there is something else running on you OSX system which is blocking the connection.

[damned]

Also - you only need to use prt forwarding if you are planning to be the GM. If you are planning to be a player you dont need to make any changes to your router in 99% of cases.

[krag]

I use a mac when I GM, but a PC when I'm a player, mainly because I can't take my desktop easily to someone's house.

One thing I found that help tremendously is using Steam when using Fantasy Grounds when on a Mac. It makes the install a lot easier.

The second thing I found to make my life a lot easier, is instead of making my IP static, I just change my port forwarding IP to whatever my computer is running naturally.

Those two things solved 99% of my issues off the bat.

[dulux-oz]

Hi David,

First of all, Welcome to FG - you WILL have a lot of fun with this app and a whole lot of fun with the people here on the boards and in the wider community.

Let me summarise, expand and clarify the excellent information provided by my fellow posters. This is quite lengthy, but its trying to explain things as simply as possible, so bare with it.

Not knowing how IT-literate you are (and because this thread will be read by all sorts of people) let me start/include a little bit of data comms theory. If you already know this stuff then bare with me :)

When we run FG as the GM we are running in "Host Mode", and when we run FG as a Player we run in "Client Mode". We can run two instances of FG on the same computer at the same time: one in Host Mode and one in Client Mode (actually, we can run several instances in Client Mode, but more than one and the computer gets bogged down).

OK, why would we want to run two instances on the same computer? Well, from a gaming point of view I do it so that I can run "Player-like NPCs" (sometimes called GMCs) without having to have two physical computers. But from an IT Point-Of-View it means that any communication that occurs between the two instances does not leave the one physical computer, thus eliminating several Points-Of-Failure. Let me explain.

A Host Mode copy of FG sends information back and forth to all the Client-Mode copies of FG connected to it. This information is sent and received via a set of mutually agreed upon rules known as the TCP/IP Protocol (there are other set of rules, or Protocols, but TCP/IP has become the most popular worldwide). The information is electronically put into a TCP/IP Packet, sort of like putting a letter into an envelope, and then sent off down the wires of the network to the Internet at large. So that the envelope/packet gets to the correct place (the correct computer) it has an address on it, and all of the computers AND programs running on those computers (that need to talk to other programs on other computers) have a unique address combination. This address combination consists of an IP Address number and a TCP Port number. The IP Address number is unique to the computer and the TCP Port number is (or should be) unique to the program. The TCP Port number for FG is 1802.

So, what happens when the Host Mode copy of FG want to send information to a Client Mode copy of FG is that it packages the information up into one or more "envelopes" or TCP/IP Packets (the exact number is immaterial to this discussion), puts the IP Address of the Client and the TCP Port number 1802 on the "envelope", and send it out the Network Interface Card (NIC for short) installed into the computer. The Host Mode computer knows the IP Address of the Client Mode computers because they tell the Host Mode computer their IP Addresses when they connect - the Client Mode computers know the IP Address of the Host Mode computer because we tell them when we want to connect.

Just to clarify, the NIC could be part of the computer's motherboard, it could be a daughterboard, it could be a USB device, it could be a Mobile Phone attached to the computer, it could be wired, fibre optic or wireless - it doesn't matter which form it takes, it does exist in some manner and they all do the same job.

The exact details aren't important but all computers and devices connected to our Local Area Network (LAN) will see the envelope/packet as it arrives at their NICs. Most will discard it, but the computer that "owns" the IP Address will look further at the envelope/packet and see the TCP Port number for FG and so pass the information along to the program (FG) to be processed.

This is why running two instances of FG on the same computer is a good trouble-shooting technique, because the envelope/packet never leaves the computer in this case (well, it does, but all other computers on our LAN ignore it, so it makes no difference). In this case only programs that are running on our computer can have any effect on the communication between the Host Mode copy of FG and the Client Mode copy of FG - which programs? Our computer's Firewall.

A Firewall such as the ones that normally run on our computers is designed to look at the TCP/IP Address combination of all outgoing and incoming envelopes/packets and determine whether to let them through or not. Most of the modern (good) Firewall software are designed to prevent most envelopes/packets from being processed. So, often we need to tell out Firewall Software on our computer to explicitly allow FG envelopes/packets to pass. We do this by creating a Rule in the Firewall Software that allows TCP Port number 1802 in and/or out. How to do this is different for all Firewall Software, so you'll have to Google how to do this for YOUR Firewall Software.

OK, so here's what you do to start:

Start FG on your computer and Click on either Load Campaign or Create New Campaign. In either case in the Right-Hand Pane there will be some IP Address information for your Internal IP Address and perhaps your External IP Address, plus perhaps four words that make up an Alias. For the moment we're interested in NONE of these, but note down the Internal IP Address - we'll use it later. Click on the Start Button to actually Start FG in Host Mode.

Start a second copy of FG and Click on Join Game. In the resulting window enter a username (it doesn't matter what) and the word "localhost" (without the quotation marks) into the Host Address Entryfield, then click the Start Button to actually start FG in Client Mode. If everything is working properly the Client Mode copy should connect to the Host Mode copy and everything will be AOK.

If you couldn't get a connection then the probable cause is your computer's Firewall Software - you need to create the Firewall Rule we talked about above. Create the Rule and try connecting again. If it still doesn't work come back here and ask for more help :)

If you connect properly exit the Client Mode copy and re-connect, but this time instead of using "localhost" as the Host Address when you pull up the Join Game Pane, type in the Internal IP Address from the Host Mode copy of FG you noted down earlier. Again, if you can't connect then check your computer's Firewall Software for the FG Rule.

If all that works well the next test is to start a Client Mode copy of FG on a second computer connected to your LAN. You'll have to use the Host Mode computer's Internal IP Address in Client Mode computer's Join Game Pane, and if it doesn't work then you'll need to check both computer's Firewall Software.

Because there are more computers in the world than there are unique IP Address numbers, the IT boffins have come up with a way to use a single IP Address to represent to the rest of the world all of the computers on a LAN. It does this by a system known as Network Address Translation/Port Address Translation (also known as NAT, PAT, and/or Port Forwarding - they aren't exactly the same, but all do related things). The exact way this works isn't relevant, but what happens is that the device that connects your LAN to the Internet - commonly called your Router - keeps a list of the IP Addresses of the computers on the LAN and does the Translation for us. What translation? Let me explain.

A Router has two or more NICs in it (remember, the wireless antenna is a NIC as well) and so connects to two or more computer networks. Usually, in our homes the Router connects to our LAN on one side and the Internet (via our ISP) on the other. Each connection to a different network needs its own IP Address (an Internal IP Address and an External IP Address). When a TCP/IP envelope/packet arrives at one of our Router's NICs the Router looks at the combined TCP/IP Address and, if the envelope/packet is for a computer not on the same network as the NIC it arrived on, sends it out the other NIC (or whichever NIC is most appropriate) - this is why Routers are called Routers: they route the envelopes/packets to the correct destination.

Some Routers also do some Firewall "stuff", but luckily we don't generally have to worry about that with our home Routers.

Most Routers these days will work AOK without us having to do anything, because most of the time we are only using the software on our computers in "Client Mode", whether that's FG, our Web Browser, our eMail Client, etc. However, if we want to set up a computer that other computers connect to, such as an email Server, a Web Server, of an FG Server (FG running in Host Mode), then we need to tell the Router how to route TCP/IP envelopes/packets to the computer running the software in Server or Host Mode - we set up a NAT or Port Forwarding Rule on our Router. Each make and model of Router does this differently, but there is a great resource on the Internet that shows us step by step how to do this for each Make/Model of Router and each piece of Software, including FG - its called PortForward.com.

What is also needed to get the Port Forwarding Rule working correctly is a Static IP Address on the computer - an IP Address that doesn't change. If the IP Address changes, the Port Forwarding Rule will be broken - it will forward envelope/packets to the wrong IP Address. Most computers when they are powered on don't have an IP Address so they contact a IP Address "Hander-Outer" (usually our Router on our home LANs) to get one - this is known as a Dynamic IP Address. We need to set a permanent IP Address on our computers if we are going to be using FG in Host Mode. Google how to do this on your own computer if you don't know how (PortForward.com also has articles on how to do this).

OK, so now we know about Routers, Static and Dynamic IP Addresses, lets continue getting FG working.

[dulux-oz]

Start FG in Host Mode and note the External IP Address in the Right-Hand Pane. This is the External IP Address of the Router.

Go to www.portforward.com, look up the Make and Model of your Router, go to the relevant page describing FG and follow the instructions to set up your Port Forwarding Rule.

Once you've done that you can Click on the Run Test Button in the Right-Hand Pane of you Host Mode copy of FG to see if things are working properly. If not, just ask for help here.

If everything is working properly give one of your friends the External IP Address reported by your Host Mode copy of FG and get them to connect (once you have started FG by clicking on the Start Button). They may have to troubleshoot their Firewall Software on their computer but should not have to set up a NAT Rule - mind you, if all else fails it can't hurt to follow the instructions on Port Forward for their Router, etc.

Alternately, if you don't want to give your Players your External IP Address, or if your External IP Address changes (as some ISPs force you to do - thankfully automatically), you can enable the Alias (which works as a pseudo IP Address) and give your Players that. Note that the SmiteWork Servers MUST be working (they usually are) for the Alias to work. Note also that if anyone is connecting to an Ultimate License Host Mode copy of FG from a Free License Client Mode copy then the SmiteWorks Servers must also be up - in either case, if the SW Servers are down, no connection.

OK, a long set of instruction/explanations, so I'll summarise here:


Start FG in Host Mode.
Start a 2nd copy of FG in Client Mode on the same computer.
Use "localhost" on the Client Mode copy to connect to the Host Mode copy.
If you can't connect check your computer's Firewall Software.
Exit the Client Mode and reconnect using the Host Mode computer's Internal IP Address.
If you can't connect check your computer's Firewall Software.
Start a copy of FG in Client Mode on a different computer on the same LAN, using the Host Mode computer's Internal IP Address.
If you can't connect check both computers' Firewall Software.
Restart the Host Mode copy of FG and Click on the Run Test Button.
If the test fails go to www.portforward.com and set up a Port Forwarding Rule on you Router and a Static IP Address on the computer you will be running FG in Host Mode on.
Restart the Host Mode copy of FG and Click on the Run Test Button.
If all tests successful give the Host Mode computer's reported External IP Address to a friend and have them run FG in Client Mode and connect to you running FG in Host Mode.
Alternately, enable the Alias and give your friend that to connect to you.
If all else fails, come back here and ask for help - we really don't mind :)






Have fun, welcome again, and don't be afraid of asking for help.

(And check out my FG Tutorial Videos - the links in my sig) :p

Cheers

[ianmward]

Nice explanation dulux-oz, I'll just throw one spanner in... I think that on the Mac you cannot (easily) run a second instance of FG as it runs under Wine and when you try to start a second instance it just reopens the first one... You could of course use something like parallels, VMWare Fusion or even Bootcamp to run in a more native Windows environment.

Having said that, I use a mac generally and have no problems with FG as executed from Steam so if the OP wants to jump on a TeamSpeak session I could try to talk you through it. I can even run up a WebEx and share desktops if that helps.
Cheers
Ian

[dulux-oz]

Nice explanation dulux-oz

Thankyou


I think that on the Mac you cannot (easily) run a second instance of FG as it runs under Wine and when you try to start a second instance it just reopens the first one... You could of course use something like parallels, VMWare Fusion or even Bootcamp to run in a more native Windows environment.

And that's why I use a real PC Operating system!

<ducks for cover as he pulls on his asbestos suit>

Let the Holy Wars begin!

:p

[Zeus]

Nice explanation dulux-oz, I'll just throw one spanner in... I think that on the Mac you cannot (easily) run a second instance of FG as it runs under Wine and when you try to start a second instance it just reopens the first one... You could of course use something like parallels, VMWare Fusion or even Bootcamp to run in a more native Windows environment.

Having said that, I use a mac generally and have no problems with FG as executed from Steam so if the OP wants to jump on a TeamSpeak session I could try to talk you through it. I can even run up a WebEx and share desktops if that helps.
Cheers
Ian

I use Mac platforms exclusively for FG, both for playing and developing on. Have done for about 4 years now.

To run a second instance of FG (for local testing etc.), simply copy the wineskin wrapped Fantasy Grounds.app file in Applications to something like Fantasy Grounds (2nd).app. You should be able to now run two instances at the same time but you will be limited to running one as host on one and the other as a client. To connect the 2nd to the 1st you can use either localhost or 127.0.0.1 for the connection. The exception to this is the Steam wrapped version, in this case Steam I believe will only allow for one running instance o FG at any one time, to overcome this create a non-Steam wrapper (using my Wineskin tutorial in the House of Healing as an example) version and use that for the 2nd instance.


And that's why I use a real PC Operating system!

<ducks for cover as he pulls on his asbestos suit>

Let the Holy Wars begin!

:p

I won't bite. :p

[David M]

First off, Thank you for your time! I really appreciate the assistance. So I managed to start two instances as was recommended and when they try to connect I get a license key conflict. How do I get around that? Does that mean they are at least talking to each other on my computer?

[damned]

You must connect to localhost or 127.0.0.1 - if you connect to alias or to LAN or WAN IP address you will get a license conflict. The localhost mode is a special mode and avoids the license conflict.
It does indeed mean they are talking to each other.
Next step - what was that address you used? Log in to your router and add a NAT or PORT Forward with (approximately) the following settings:

start port: 1802
end port: 1802
protocol: tcp
host or local ip address: your computer name or your computer IP address or that address from above that you used...

[dulux-oz]

You must connect to localhost or 127.0.0.1 - if you connect to alias or to LAN or WAN IP address you will get a license conflict. The localhost mode is a special mode and avoids the license conflict.

Never had that happen - guess I've been lucky :)

[David M]

Hi! I have tried both 127.0.0.1 and localhost and I keep getting the license error.

[Trenloe]

Hi! I have tried both 127.0.0.1 and localhost and I keep getting the license error.
Very strange.. You're using "Join Game" from the second instance and then use something like the following?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39085830/Screenshots/Fantasy%20Grounds/Localhost%20Join%20Game.JPG

[David M]

Yes thats exactly what I'm doing. No Luck so far. Should I find some other way to install the programs besides Wineskin?
Regards
D

[Zeus]

Yes thats exactly what I'm doing. No Luck so far. Should I find some other way to install the programs besides Wineskin?
Regards
D

Thats really odd, as I do exactly this when I need to test dev builds on a client thats connected to a campaign. I use a cloned copy of my wineskin wrapped FG.app.

Can you double check and make sure you have no other instances of FantasyGrounds running in the background, you can check this using the Activity Monitor in Applications/Utilities. Make absolutely sure and then fire up one instance of each FantasyGrounds.app you have created.

[David M]

7232

So that is what I'm getting.

[Trenloe]

So that is what I'm getting.
That usually only appears in FG when connecting on a physical network IP address, not the localhost loopback address. Maybe something is making localhost use the network adapter rather than the loopback device - weird. Sorry, I don't know about Mac so can't comment as to why this might be happening.

[damned]

If you are launching FG from a second install of Wineskin - could you please try removing your license key from this instance?
AFAIK you shouldnt have to do this but could you try it please?

[David M]

If you are launching FG from a second install of Wineskin - could you please try removing your license key from this instance?
AFAIK you shouldnt have to do this but could you try it please?

Any idea of where to find this file?

[damned]

Any idea of where to find this file?

Im assuming you are referring to "removing your license key from this instance"...?

If you used Zeus's suggesting here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21829-I-have-a-mac-and-want-to-run-this-program-Is-it-worth-the-trouble&p=183681&viewfull=1#post183681
to create a copy of the Wineskin - in the second wineskin try clicking settings from the splash screen and removing the license key. do this only in teh second instance. use the second instance to connect to your first GM/host session only.

[David M]

Im assuming you are referring to "removing your license key from this instance"...?

If you used Zeus's suggesting here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21829-I-have-a-mac-and-want-to-run-this-program-Is-it-worth-the-trouble&p=183681&viewfull=1#post183681
to create a copy of the Wineskin - in the second wineskin try clicking settings from the splash screen and removing the license key. do this only in teh second instance. use the second instance to connect to your first GM/host session only.

WOOT! Finally! Yes that worked, they are connected.

[Andraax]

So that is what I'm getting.

Are you sure you don't have "localhost" defined in your hosts file to another address than the loopback address?

[David M]

No I'm not sure! How would I check?

[David M]

and I just tried the same thing but instead of doing local host I tried the ip address and it couldn't connect.

[damned]

oK... so next thing is are you planning on running games for others or playing only?
if you are planning on playing games you will need to get your router configured.
what is your internal ip address?
what does FG say your external ip address is?
if you log into your router what does it say your external address is?

[Andraax]

No I'm not sure! How would I check?

Well, on FreeBSD (which is what OS/X is based on) you would edit /etc/hosts - but I'm not sure if that's something that Apple changed.

[ianmward]

Zeus: when you copy the Wineskin app, do you have both copies pointing to the same data folder somewhere shared? Would having 2 different data folders cause the conflict?

[damned]

Well, on FreeBSD (which is what OS/X is based on) you would edit /etc/hosts - but I'm not sure if that's something that Apple changed.

if you dont know where this is you prbably havent changed it... but something else could have. easy test. open a console and ping localhost. it should get replies from 127.0.0.1 - if its anotehr number then something may have altered your hosts file.

[Zeus]

if you dont know where this is you prbably havent changed it... but something else could have. easy test. open a console and ping localhost. it should get replies from 127.0.0.1 - if its anotehr number then something may have altered your hosts file.
damned is right, open a Terminal.app from Applications/Utilities and enter the following command:

ping 127.0.0.1
If all works, you should see something similar to:

gandalf:input zeph$ ping 127.0.0.1
PING 127.0.0.1 (127.0.0.1): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 127.0.0.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=0.077 ms
64 bytes from 127.0.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.071 ms
64 bytes from 127.0.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.071 ms
64 bytes from 127.0.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.070 ms
^C
--- 127.0.0.1 ping statistics ---
4 packets transmitted, 4 packets received, 0.0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 0.070/0.072/0.077/0.003 ms
If it doesn't work, then something is interfering with the local network setup. In console you can list the /etc/hosts file using the command cat

cat /etc/hosts
You should see the following (note: yours will be longer, I have truncated mine for security reasons):

gandalf:input zeph$ cat /etc/hosts
##
# Host Database
#
# localhost is used to configure the loopback interface
# when the system is booting. Do not change this entry.
##
255.255.255.255 broadcasthost
#::1 localhost
#fe80::1%lo0 localhost
127.0.0.1 localhost

You can ignore the first entry (broadcasthost) as well as entries 2 and 3 (which I have commented out), these relate to new IPv6 address schemas. The last entry in my example above is the one you want to confirm is also in your /etc/hosts file i.e. 127.0.0.1 localhost

[David M]

Hi! I've found the console app but I think you mean the terminal program. It is exactly as you said, an endless series of:

64 bytes from 127.0.0.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=0.066 ms
64 bytes from 127.0.0.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.083 ms
64 bytes from 127.0.0.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0.064 ms
64 bytes from 127.0.0.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=64 time=0.091 ms

[David M]

I would like to host a game for my friends. so I need to run it as a GM. If the software ever starts to work I will be upgrading to the full license.

We start tonight, and if I can't get this working I may have to try a different Virtual Tabletop system. Although I like this one in theory. I shudder to think of having to go through all of this with each of my friends, most of whom own macs :(

[damned]

I would like to host a game for my friends. so I need to run it as a GM. If the software ever starts to work I will be upgrading to the full license.

We start tonight, and if I can't get this working I may have to try a different Virtual Tabletop system. Although I like this one in theory. I shudder to think of having to go through all of this with each of my friends, most of whom own macs :(

Im confused. In your first post you said
I bought this program.
What did you buy? If you only bought a Lite then you cant host a session.
If you bought a Full each of your players will need at least a Lite.
If you are thinking of buying the Ultimate then your players wont need to buy anything.
I would recommend that if you have the Ultimate you get your players to download the Steam Demo version - its Mac installer may be more robust for your group.

So... back to the first question - what version did you buy?
And are you online right now?

[David M]

Im confused. In your first post you said .
What did you buy? If you only bought a Lite then you cant host a session.
If you bought a Full each of your players will need at least a Lite.
If you are thinking of buying the Ultimate then your players wont need to buy anything.
I would recommend that if you have the Ultimate you get your players to download the Steam Demo version - its Mac installer may be more robust for your group.

So... back to the first question - what version did you buy?
And are you online right now?

Hi! Yes I bought the GMs license, and the Call of Cthulhu ruleset. I was going to upgrade to the Ultimate if I liked it. And yes I am online at the moment. I haven't had the time this week to spend more than an hour or so at a time on this so unfortunately this has gone on longer than I wanted it to!

[damned]

send me an email - removed please.

[David M]

Thanks everyone for all of your help. I think I'm just going to give up on this. I just went through everything again and nothing works. The last straw is that I have no idea what to do with the router. I set up port forwarding and it still doesn't work. I'm not bad with computers but this is all a bridge to far for me. Having spent at least 10 hours on it I'm going to cut my losses and move on. I appreciate the community though and all the time that you have taken to try to make it work. Take care.

[ddavison]

We were able to get David up and running. We did two things - 1: Installed through Steam for simplicity., 2: Configured the router.

For anyone else reading the thread and experiencing issues, here is the basic setup required for your router.

1. Your router has a WAN IP address which is how your home network is viewed by the outside world (example using Google's IP address would be 74.125.198.147)
2. Your router has a LAN IP and/or DHCP Server IP address which is the internal address used by computers and devices inside your network to reach your router. For simplicity, I'll say that this is normally set to something like 192.168.0.1. It may also be called a Gateway IP address.
3. Your router's DHCP gives out local IP addresses that share the same first 3 numbers of your Gateway IP address. For instance, 192.168.1.11. This only means something to your local network and people all over the world may have that same number within their networks.
4. Your router then needs to be configured to port forward incoming connections to your external IP for port 1802 to your local IP address of your computer running FG. Set a port forward for port 1802 to route to 192.168.1.11 for port 1802. If there is a beginning and ending range, set them both to 1802.
5. Inside Fantasy Grounds, do another Test Connection. Restart FG after making any network changes to ensure it picks up the right local IP address first.

-Doug

[David M]

Thanks again Doug! I really appreciate the assistance. Thanks everybody who reached out and helped as well! The program is up and running and everything works great!!!
Cheers
David

[Blacky]

Meaning it was not some voodoo things, just a regular NAT set up :mad:

[f.marcel]

Hi there,

I'm happy that the problem with NAT setup has been solved. But David was talking about another problem, which I have too: When I connect locally (localhost), I get the license key conflict.
Do you by now have any idea, how this is solved?
I want to use FGII for local play, setting the player's screen up on a second screen to use while playing at the table. For now I have temporarily solved this by using the second Wineskin FGII installation without a license key. This way the (licensed) host-program switches to Demo-Mode as soon as the player is connected. Does it mean that the program does not save any changes anymore?

[damned]

yes - when it switches to Demo mode no changes will be recorded.
i believe it is possible to launch the second instance and connect on the mac but you do have to have an understanding of how the networking works in Wine.

[f.marcel]

yes - when it switches to Demo mode no changes will be recorded.
i believe it is possible to launch the second instance and connect on the mac but you do have to have an understanding of how the networking works in Wine.

Unfortunately I don't :-(

[damned]

if I had a Mac I would have a look with you but unfortunately I dont... sorry.
Zeus or Doug may be able to help....

[Trenloe]

yes - when it switches to Demo mode no changes will be recorded.
If the GM is running a full license then changes to the campaign will be saved when switching to demo mode when an unlicensed client connects. The limit is that just one client can connect in demo mode, if a licensed client tries to connect the campaign will switch to normal (non-demo) mode and the demo client will be kicked off.

[Golgorosh]

Hello there. This post is gonna be long because there's many things to say to get the full picture.

Beforehand, please note that i've completely reinitialized my ISP router (Orange in France) before writing this post.

I have a PC. This machine has FG2 Ultimate on it. When doing a Connection test, i have a Success.

I've just acquired a Mac Book Pro. I have installed Parallels X (Test version right now). I've added a Windows 7 Virtual Machine. I've installed on it FG2. All is fine on this side. When i run a Connection test, it fails.
I have installed Steam on this Mac (OS X, not PC Steam on the Win7). On it, i've installed FG2. It opens Winbottler. When i run a Connection test, it fails too.

I have recreated a NAT PAT rule on my router to open the 1802 port for my Mac. Still fails.
Please note i have try connecting through Steam and FG2 Win7 mode. Always fail.

I had (before the reset of my router) to create a rule for the 1802 on my PC. I didnt do it this time. I launch FG2 on my PC and run a Connection Test, it succeed, without any NAT PAT rule. BUT NOT ALWAYS !!!! So i create a NAT PAT rule. In this case, it works. FUNNY STORY? I remove the rule. It works. I reboot the PC => doesnt work anymore. Recreate the rule => works.

Some nice persons have tried to help me on forums (namely the french virtual community JdR Virtuel). I have make sure my Mac firewall is off. I have learnt that you cannot create two NAT PAT rule for the same port for 2 different machines. We even tried to deactivate a rule so you could create another one but all the ISP routers block this : one port, one machine.

Right now i'm completely out of clue. I decided to be able to GM either on a laptop or a regular PC in the same building with the same router. I just cant and it's very frustrating, all this because of this damn port :(

Can anyone help?

[damned]

Hello and welcome Golgorosh - Ive sent you a PM - check your Fantasy Grounds Inbox and Ill try and get you sorted.

[dulux-oz]

I decided to be able to GM either on a laptop or a regular PC in the same building with the same router. I just cant and it's very frustrating, all this because of this damn port :(

Can anyone help?

Someone else can correct me, but I don't think what you want to do is possible (not without a load-balancer, at any rate - and believe me, that's overkill and commercial hosting level stuff).

This is not an issue with FG, with PCs or with Macs, its to do with how the TCP/IP Protocol Stack works (ie how the Internet works) - you can't have two (eg) webservers on an inbound PAT rule on the same port either - not without a load-balancer.

You'll have to choose one-or-the-other.

Sorry

Of course, if I've missed the point then all bets are off :p

Cheers

[ianmward]

Hi Golgorosh,
Firstly welcome and sorry you're having problems. Next, don't worry, I'm sure we'll sort it out as I also have a Mac and have used Parallels.

What Dulux-Oz says is correct, you can only forward to one or the other of your machines behind the Internet facing router. But you can select one or the other.
Only the host (GM) needs the port forwarded. The other machine will not need it, so unless you are intending to GM on both machines at the same time (with 2 different groups) you should be ok.

Which networking option have you selected for the Parallels VM? You must select bridged as otherwise it will have an IP address local to the VM & Mac. Once you have selected bridged, check th ip address inside the Windows VM and make sure that the router is forwarding to that IP address.

Let me know if this works.

Ian

[dulux-oz]

Hello and welcome Golgorosh - Ive sent you a PM - check your Fantasy Grounds Inbox and Ill try and get you sorted.

Good-luck (see me previous post) - mind you, if you do, let me know please how you did it :)

Cheers

[dulux-oz]

Hi Golgorosh,
Firstly welcome and sorry you're having problems. Next, don't worry, I'm sure we'll sort it out as I also have a Mac and have used Parallels.

Which networking option have you selected for the Parallels VM? You must select bridged as otherwise it will have an IP address local to the VM & Mac. Once you have selected bridged, check th ip address inside the Windows VM and make sure that the router is forwarding to that IP address.

Let me know if this works.

Ian

I don't think that'll work Ian - if I'm reading the post right the issu is with the PAT rules ie one PAT rule pointing to two hosts for serving purposes - I don't think it can be done :(

[damned]

I read it as he wants to use the Mac as the GM instead of the PC. I think Ian is on the right track. Of course if he wants 2 GMs in the same house he will have issues unless he uses a custom port on the second GM machine.

[Golgorosh]

I confirm : i want to be able to GM on the Mac and no longer on the PC.

[dulux-oz]

I read it as he wants to be able to GM from either, depending upon whim - and yes, you are right, he's gonna have issues :(

[damned]

Great - so try Ians method first.
Get your IP Setup right on the Parallels and check your Windows IP.
Then set your router up to point TCP1802 to that IP.
And *some* routers just need to be rebooted after changing a PAT/NAT assignment.

[dulux-oz]

I confirm : i want to be able to GM on the Mac and no longer on the PC.

Ahh, in that case then you can safely ignore my ramblings :)

Yes, Ian's on the right track in that case.

Cheers

[damned]

I read it as he wants to be able to GM from either, depending upon whim - and yes, you are right, he's gonna have issues :(

Man - this is what you call *crosstalk*.
Anyways - it is actually possible without any additional router config to do what you want using Port Triggering or UPNP - but only to one machine at a time. Using UPNP you can swap between machines - but a router reboot in between is often needed.

[ianmward]

Can you make clients connect to a server on a different port? I couldn't find the way to do that...

[Golgorosh]

I read it as he wants to be able to GM from either, depending upon whim - and yes, you are right, he's gonna have issues :(

You are right Dulux. That was my first intent but it seems it is merely impossible.

So let's get back to plan B : Win 7 on Parallels running FG2.

Damned, i'm not that proficient with IT. Can you help me on this : Get your IP Setup right on the Parallels and check your Windows IP

[damned]

Yep - please respond to new PM.

[damned]

Can you make clients connect to a server on a different port? I couldn't find the way to do that...

Steps to set port (Need to be performed on all machines in game session)
* Find icon or menu that you use to start FG.
* Right-click on it.
* Select Properties in the drop-down menu.
* Find the Target field
* At the very end of the target field add -pXXXX, where XXXX is the new port number you want to try.

Here's an example of the target field on my machine with a port option:

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Fantasy Grounds II\FantasyGrounds.exe" -p8001"
or
"C:\Program Files\Fantasy Grounds II\FantasyGrounds.exe" -p8001"
or
"C:\Program Files (x86)\Fantasy Grounds\FantasyGrounds.exe" -p8001"
or
"C:\Program Files\Fantasy Grounds\FantasyGrounds.exe" -p8001"

Please note Test Connection wont work if using a non standard port.

[damned]

and the easier way is to use Hamachi or other VPN software :)

[Golgorosh]

LOL, lot of crosstalk :)

OK.

I'm very much newbie on some parts of the discussion.

You seems to say that i need to do something in Parallels. The main app or in the Win 7 micro launcher on Parallels (there's a gear symbol for options) ?

Now Hamachi has bene also pointed by a french mate on the french community. If it's safe and sound, i'd love to know more :)

Tell me what's the easiest option for me without hassling the other players and i'll shoot this way :)

[damned]

Here is a link for Hamachi instructions.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20309-GM-Connection-Issues-Tried-Everything-Try-Hamachi

However with Hamachi all players will need it.
Free version is also limited to 4 or 5 computers?
You can actually create 2 networks on GM machine and put 3 players on each connection to have more players :)

Hamachi is owned by Logmein. They are safe and reputable. Sometimes Hamachi has messed up someones network settings though.

[damned]

I have to say - the Aussies are on fire tonight :)

[Golgorosh]

I have to say - the Aussies are on fire tonight :)

Indeed :)

Ok, i didnt know that the Hamachi solution needed everyone having it.
Therefore, it doesnt suit my need.

At one moment you told me something about the Paralled VM connection.
Because the issue i have is for both Steam FG2 and Win7 FG2 on Parallels, both on the Mac. So the bridge thingie wouldnt apply to Steam right?

[damned]

Steam on MAC?
You should check your MAC IP and point incoming TCP1802 (via PAT/NAT/PortForwarding) on your router to the MACs IP ADdress.
As pointed out before sometimes this will require a router reboot when you change where this is pointing.

On Parallels you have to do what Ian said and then do the above but use the PC IP.

[Golgorosh]

On Parallels you have to do what Ian said and then do the above but use the PC IP.

Get your IP Setup right on the Parallels and check your Windows IP.
Then set your router up to point TCP1802 to that IP.


And this is where i'm getting lost. I've just installed Parallels yesterday and i just dont know where to look or where to begin with. Sorry guys :(

[Golgorosh]

IT WORKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was in the Parallels options (just had to figure out ywhat you were telling me :))
I went on the Options - Material - picked Thunderbolt Ethernet.
Then went to the NAT PAT rules, created a rule for this completely new machine detected by the router and opened there the 1802 port.

So it seems to be working. I love you Aussies :) Thanx so much :)
(well let's see if it still works after 10 reboots to be completely sure :D)

[ddavison]

You guys *were* on fire. Thanks for helping him out. Golgorosh, I'm glad you got it sorted out. I think the easier setup for most Mac users is to install Steam natively on Mac and then install FG from there instead of installing Parallels and then Steam and then FG. Then you just port forward to your Mac ip address instead of having to configure the bridge between Parallels and the Mac.

[Golgorosh]

Two things Doug :
- on Steam, my FG2 was taking 2/3rd of my screen and i was unable to make it bigger.
- I was also unable to access the folders we use to have on PC (the Application folder).

Maybe i didnt read right in the manual but i couldnt find :(

[Blacky]

If it's safe and sound, i'd love to know more :)
It's not. I installed it once, it screwed my network stack beyond repair.

The safest and sound way to go is to have a (very) basic understanding of network (already explained here on the forums), and read your modem/router documentation. If you have an Orange Livebox, there's plenty of manuals, and help, and tutorial about it.

Really it's not difficult. Handling a model train toy is harder to understand ;) It's just packets (trains, wagons) going from A to Z, you need to help guide them through B, C, D, etc.

[ddavison]

Two things Doug :
- on Steam, my FG2 was taking 2/3rd of my screen and i was unable to make it bigger.
- I was also unable to access the folders we use to have on PC (the Application folder).

Maybe i didnt read right in the manual but i couldnt find :(

1. You should be able to drag from the corner or window edges to expand the size of the screen of FG when launched from Steam. It is important to turn off the Steam Overlay by first right-clicking on the FG listing in your Steam Library, choosing properties and uncheck the box for the Steam overlay.
2. The folder path is very long. There are two options to get you there.
a. Launch a campaign and go to Images & Maps and then click the Folder icon. That will place you in the campaign's image folder. You can navigate up from there to reach the root data folder from FG
b. Right-click in Steam and go to Properties | Local Files > Browse local files. You should see FantasyGrounds.app. Right click on it and choose Show Package Contents. There is a drive_C folder inside the app that you can drill into to reach your files like you would on a Windows PC.

[Golgorosh]

Hey there,
i have succeeded by installing FG2 on the Parallel Win7.

Now i want to install there the tokens i've bought and that i use when preparing my adventures.
The mini software of each Token package i've bought on the FG2 install each time, no issue.
However, when i open the token module in any campaign, i do not see them. It's like they're installed but i cant find them (and i see them in my FG2 PC).

Is it again linked to a virtual machine issue or are the token locked to a specific machine?
Thanks :)

[ddavison]

Look for them in the following order:

1. Tokens | Modules, and then activate the module to display the token bag
2. Library | Modules, activate the module and then open and close the token bag.

[Golgorosh]

That's my problem. I cannot even activate them in the Token Module as i do not see them. I see the pogs and other FG2 native token modules, not the one i've installed afterwards (the Devin tokens sold on the FG2 store).
Very strange :/

[ddavison]

Can you link me to the URL of the product on RPGNow for the product you are referencing?

It's possible that it installed the .mod files to the default path's module folder within your parrallels setup. Those are normally located here;
C:\Users\[Your Username]\AppData\Roaming\Fantasy Grounds II\modules

In your settings for FG, is this the path listed for your data path (less the "modules" portion)?

[Golgorosh]

You were right Doug : they were installed on this path C:\Users\Golgorosh\AppData\Roaming\Fantasy Grounds\modules.

I have copied them all to C:\Users\Golgorosh\AppData\Roaming\Fantasy Grounds II\modules and it works like a charm.

I was referencing to tokens packs like this one : https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.xcp?id=DNTP50FG2

I just found them by making a very specific search with the exact name : TP41_TwoLeggedFiends
Thanks again :) Quality of support is top notch !

[ddavison]

Good deal. We're glad that it is resolved for you.