XP dispersion could be better

[krag]

I love working with Fantasy Grounds, but I find that I'm constantly having to use outside sources (like d20srd.com) to do things like experience calculators.

If I am playing 3.5e ruleset, and I have 5 goblins at CR 2, shouldn't Fantasy grounds be able to automatically figure out that the overall encounter level is a 7? And If I have 4 level 4 players, shouldn't it than be able to figure out each surviving player gets 750 experience at the end of the encounter?

As it stands I am having to keep the "Encounter CR" at 0, and the "Encounter Experience" at 0 as well, than telling my players to manually add their points, which is fine, as it is how it works when I play on tabletop, but I believe Fantasy Grounds is a way to make things easier to everybody, and I am currently running a campaign with it while we all sit around a table.

If there is a legal reason as to why this can't work, I can understand that, but if not, why hasn't anyone brought this up before? (I did a quick search using the search feature; so I may be wrong)

[Trenloe]

Half of what you are asking for is there via the encounter entry & party sheet. Make sure the encounter has the correct XP and then drag the encounter to the "XP" section of the party sheet. You can then distribute XP to all PCs in the party sheet. Info on the Party Sheet here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/3.5E_Party_Sheet

Auto calculation of the encounter CR and XP based off the number and CR/XP value of the creatures in the encounter has been mentioned before and is an entry on the FG wishlist here: https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=50004 Go and vote!

I have occasionally had the thought that I might tackle this as an extension (auto calculating CR and XP of an encounter). But I have too many other FG projects on the go at the moment - perhaps someone might be willing to try?

[Zeus]

I've got auto CR and XP for Encounter sheets on my update list for 5E. In truth I'll probably add it to CoreRPG as a base capability.

[Bidmaron]

You da man Zeus!

[dulux-oz]

I've got auto CR and XP for Encounter sheets on my update list for 5E. In truth I'll probably add it to CoreRPG as a base capability.

Won't that break CoreRPG? - After all, not all Rulesets based off of CoreRPG calculate their XP in the same way as DnD (eg, I don't think Numenera does).

Should that type of functionality, being Ruleset Specific, go into a specific Ruleset?

Just my $0.02 worth. :)

Cheers

[krag]

@Trenloe
The point is that I still have to input a figure during or after the encounter, THAN drag it, there is no way for me to be sure "this # of players at this level will finish this encounter alive, therefore each player gets this # of exp." An auto-calculation would, in theory, take your party sheet, with levels for each character, and than look at the individual monsters in the encounter, and auto-calculate and distribute exp based on that feature.

I Voted.

I wish I was a programmer, but I'm an audio guy. The Game Developers I know already have programming projects and cant tackle the issue, especially since none of them have any prior experience with Fantasy Grounds.

@Zeus & @Dulux-Oz
That sounds great. But is there a way we could have (in the game settings) an option as DMs to Enable and Disable the auto CR option, much like how health is viewed by players on the Combat Tracker and other things?

I.E. Auto XP Calculation <Enabled/Disabled> (Description: Experience for each encounter is automatically calculated based on Monster CR and the Party Sheet.)

[Trenloe]

@Trenloe
The point is that I still have to input a figure during or after the encounter, THAN drag it,
I completely understand that, which is why I said "half of what you are asking for..." :) And then went on to mention it could be done in an extension.


there is no way for me to be sure "this # of players at this level will finish this encounter alive, therefore each player gets this # of exp." An auto-calculation would, in theory, take your party sheet, with levels for each character, and than look at the individual monsters in the encounter, and auto-calculate and distribute exp based on that feature.
I'm a little confused that you keep mentioning PC levels relating to XP distribution. In D&D type games the experience is always the same for a specific encounter - no matter what level the PCs are. If they kill a 400xp creature they get 400xp shared out among the PCs equally, not based off PC levels.

Or, are you referring to the average party level so you can compare that to the overall level of the encounter (EL) and work out the difficulty? Or, are you wanting FG to indicate character leveling as well?

I'm trying to understand exactly what you're asking for... :)

[krag]

I've always used this:

https://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20encountercalculator/

Players with higher levels get less Exp than those with lower levels.

Page 48 of the DMG (3.5e)
"A monster’s Challenge Rating (CR) tells you the level of the party for which that monster is a good challenge. A monster of CR 5 is an appropriate challenge for a group of four 5th-level characters. If the characters are of higher level than the monster, they get fewer XP because the monster should be easier to defeat. Likewise, if the characters are of lower level than a monster’s Challenge Rating, the PCs get a greater award.

Parties with five or more members can often take on monsters with higher CRs, and parties of three or fewer are challenged by monsters with lower CRs. The game rules account for these facts by dividing the XP earned by the number of characters in the party (see Rewards, page 36)."

So therefore, the items you need are:
# of Monsters
CR of Monsters
# of Party Members
Level of Party Members

So for example:
If you give 200 XP for killing a Goblin of a CR of 2 when your players are 2, they level up as usual.
If you still give 200 XP for killing a Goblin when the Players are level 8, you are effectively "boosting" players by having them kill low level things over and over. (I.E. Random Encounters in Campaign Settings)

A good example of this is the South Park episode where they play World of Warcraft. They stay in a low level area killing Boars to reach max level. In WoW this is impossible as a Boar gives less experience as a player gains levels until they eventually do not give anything, forcing the player to move on to more difficult locations. As such is Dungeons and Dragons, as per the DMG of 3.5e

I don't play 4e, and I haven't DM'd 5e yet (only played as a character in my Sunday Group), so I'm unaware how their exp dispersion works. I am guessing your experience with DnD is with either ADnD(2.0) or 4e? Most likely due to my lack of experience with those systems.

[jshauber]

I see where you are coming from but unless the party is repeatedly killing low level stuff (like your example of 8th lvl beating up on goblins) a few XP extra isn't going to unbalance the progression unduly. AND if they are constantly getting goblins as random encounters then I would say you need to adjust the random encounter table to account for that or have the goblins be smarter about not trying to take out a bunch of powerful characters. Unless you are attacking them with swarms of goblins which would put the CR where it should be.

I agree an extension might be nice to cover this, but not sure how many people would really need it. I just plug in the XP for the encounter and go with it. If a party member dies you can remove them from party sheet before handing out XP if they don't get any and then re-add them. OR just manually adjust the character sheets for that encounter.

The other thing you can do is use the site you linked to re-calculate the XP and then change the XP in encounter box before dragging it to party sheet on the occasions that it might be different.

[krag]

I hear you. I primarily want it for when players miss a session and are a lower level than their companions and such. Plus it'd just make things easier on me as a DM when it's time to distribute XP, no need for re-calculating things last second. It's not like the request is necessary, it's just helpful.

Thanks everyone for their input/insight on the topic. It's refreshing to see things from another perspective and I know your time is valuable.

[Trenloe]

I don't play 4e, and I haven't DM'd 5e yet (only played as a character in my Sunday Group), so I'm unaware how their exp dispersion works. I am guessing your experience with DnD is with either ADnD(2.0) or 4e? Most likely due to my lack of experience with those systems.
I do apologise, I have experience with most forms of D&D except 3.5e, plus Pathfinder and all of those don't use a scaling of XP based off PC level - it's just a direct allocation with the progressively larger number of XP per PC level allowing characters who miss sessions to close the gap over time. I had no idea 3.5e used such a scaling. Pathfinder doesn't do this either.

I don't think you'll see this implemented in the base product unless someone takes the time to develop an extension that would do this type of XP allocation, and then that might be incorporated into the final product.

[hangarflying]

I do apologise, I have experience with most forms of D&D except 3.5e, plus Pathfinder and all of those don't use a scaling of XP based off PC level - it's just a direct allocation with the progressively larger number of XP per PC level allowing characters who miss sessions to close the gap over time. I had no idea 3.5e used such a scaling. Pathfinder doesn't do this either.

Well, for what it's worth, D&D 1e and 2e did have scaling experience points, except that it wasn't hard-coded into the system. The DM was supposed to adjust the amount of XP distributed based upon the relevant difficulty of the encounter.

[JohnD]

This seems like nice functionality to have added but as with all things, I'd personally want a toggle in the settings for it.

[RTFallen]

I'm wanting to learn lua, so maybe I could play around with this to try to learn. I'll have to think about it though because i have quite a few open projects already.

Resire

[Trenloe]

This seems like nice functionality to have added but as with all things, I'd personally want a toggle in the settings for it.
On top of this I think a check box in the encounter window itself would be good. Auto CR/XP calculation would be something you'd want to use most of the time I would imagine, but sometimes you'd want to quickly add an encounter entry with just XP (no creature records) so that you could add XP to the party sheet with the minimum of fuss. The default state of the check-box could be set by the campaign option.

[RTFallen]

This may take me a little while to accomplish, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I can't learn anything if I just sit back doing nothing. :)

Resire

[Trenloe]

This may take me a little while to accomplish, but I'm willing to give it a shot. I can't learn anything if I just sit back doing nothing. :)
Cool. :-)

I'd recommend tackling it one step at a time. i.e. Initially code for calculating the total XP (and therefore encounter CR/EL) within an encounter entry. The main code will be operating on an update to the encounter record and then iterating though each creature entry in the list to get the CR of the creature and the number of them to work out the XP for each line. Then totaling up and writing the encounter XP value and CR.

Some of the code/ discussion here might help: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21701-updating-a-total-based-off-a-list-getting-deleted

You'll be getting to know the campaign encounter database structure - which is actually the <battle> node in the database, not the <encounter> node (that is the historical name for story entries in the database).

[krag]

@RTFallen

You are a more brave soul than I, good sir. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

[RTFallen]

@RTFallen

You are a more brave soul than I, good sir. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

Thanks krag. I'll let you know if I need anything. :)

Resire

[RTFallen]

I have a basic working platform for PFRPG (I started with it because I know the exp system better). There are still some bugs to iron out, but once I do it shouldn't be hard to convert it for 3.5E (I hope.). :)

Resire

[Dakadin]

Great job so far. Keep up the good work! :D

[JohnD]

Can you include a multiplier box? For example, someone might want to do 1.25x normal XP for some reason, while someone (i.e. me) else might want just .75 for slower progression.

[RTFallen]

Great job so far. Keep up the good work! :D

Thanks!


Can you include a multiplier box? For example, someone might want to do 1.25x normal XP for some reason, while someone (i.e. me) else might want just .75 for slower progression.

I can try to add it in. I will have to do some research on how to do it before I do though.

Resire

[RTFallen]

Created a thread under PFRPG/3.5E board.
Auto XP Calculator (Extension) (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21823-Auto-XP-Calculator-(Extension))

Resire

[Trenloe]

I have a basic working platform for PFRPG (I started with it because I know the exp system better).
Awesome! I'll look forward to seeing it sometime. :)

[RTFallen]

Awesome! I'll look forward to seeing it sometime. :)

May have something basic for PFRPG up tonight/morning.

Resire

[RTFallen]

I have a basic PFRPG version up here (https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21823-Auto-XP-Calculator-(Extension)).

Resire