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Moon Wizard
July 19th, 2014, 09:03
I just pushed a beta release for the 5E ruleset with changes for the latest rules per the Basic Rules PDF and the Starter Set box.

http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21658-Beta-release-v3-0-7

Please give it a run through, and let me know what you find.

We will be continuing to polish this ruleset, and incorporating updates from the upcoming release of the Core Books.

Cheers,
JPG

Irondrake
July 19th, 2014, 14:09
I'm really liking this so far! Going through everything now, making some corrections to my NPCs and PCs, but they are all pretty minor.

Irondrake
July 19th, 2014, 14:18
I'm not sure if critical hits were approached, but if you press shift and roll damage from a weapon, its rolling two extra damage dice instead of one on weapons that only have a single damage die, such as a spear or dagger (1d6 or 1d4, etc.)

7049

Golgorosh
July 19th, 2014, 15:12
I didnt find a box for Inspiration gained through the game.
Maybe you planned to put it later on the ruleset.

Great work otherwise, thanks a lot for letting us play with those great tools.

El Condoro
July 19th, 2014, 15:44
On the Actions tab there is a weapons meta data glass. If that is zero the crit does double damage. If the extra die is set to one or more, more are added (duh!). So zero should be the default for double damage.

Irondrake
July 19th, 2014, 16:56
They are set to zero, but what I am finding is you have to open it and close it for every character before it "understands" it. Opening a character from a previous version of the ruleset seems to cause an error to be thrown where that didn't exist before, so it automatically rolls 1 extra crit dice until you open and close Weapons meta window.

And yes, the only thing I couldn't find was a spot for inspiration, I was very happy to see a spot for Faction and DCI# in the notes!

Moon Wizard
July 19th, 2014, 18:40
Inspiration will be coming in near future. Based on the rules, it will just be a check box on the Main tab of PC sheet for tracking.

Thanks for catch on extra crit dice.

JPG

ShadeRaven
July 20th, 2014, 01:09
Main Tab: Passive perception on the front page is awesome. Having both checks and saves there, too, is a beautiful thing. Everything looks good. So much there that's perfect for quick reference and well placed.

Issue #1: The way you deal with Hit Dice available for healing is sharp has heck. Love it! However, there is a problem with them. The new rules state that on a long rest, you get up to Half your Hit Dice used. Thus, if a second level character were to use both Hit Dice during Rests before taking their Long Rest, when the next day arrives, they would only gain back 1 of the 2 they have available.

Skill Tab: Again, very well done. I don't have Skills ready in the Library to drag and drop to see if assigning descriptions work, but like the new look.

Request #1: Not sure how doable this is or whether or not it's even deemed worth the effort, but... what I'd like to see is that skills that get marked as Proficient get sorted to the top. The reason for this is that quiet often, it is only those skills you need the skill tab for (otherwise, you live off the ability checks of the main tab). Granted, players would simply could used to doing a Deception Check instead of choosing between Charisma Check or Deception depending on if it's proficient. Still, it might be nice to see the primary skills at the top. Again, though, not a high priority at all, if even worth implementing.

Abilities Tab: Looks like what we've seen before, and still rock solid.

Inventory Tab: Looks like what we've seen before, and still rock solid.

Notes Tab: Many improvements here! Love it!

Request #2: Deity field is a bit small. Often I put in something like - Tymora (Good Fortune) - so that when someone references the character's deity, the not only get the name but some extra information on their primary god. Instead of trying to figure out how to fit that in better, I'd actually love to see Deity given a Break-Out box where you can then add further details. Ideally, this might include a spell power like list of various features that can be populated or ignored as desired (things like domains, subdomains, favored weapon, titles, etc), but if it was a simple Text Box where additional information could be added, that would be more than good enough for me. :)

Actions Tab: This one was the one that took a little getting used to, but it is an improvement to have everything there. The only thing I was confused about was the use of the "Prepared" tab for spellcasting. Whether I put 1 or 100 in there, it didn't seem to have any bearing on how spells appeared below. All-in-all, though, it was good stuff and well designed.

Issue #2: Long rest did not reset spell usage. A Wizard that used any number of spells during the course of a day, when a long rest was taken, none of the "check marks" for usage went away. They had to be manually deselected.

Issue #3: Not a big deal, but I did note that when a critical was rolled on an attack, when damage was rolled, the "auto-apply" of criticals didn't happen. Holding shift, of course, allowed normal critical results to ensue.

The progress was great! Loved what I saw of the character sheets. I'll dig in deeper when we play next and combat is involved, but we sat down and toyed around with the new character sheet look and working - it was very well received indeed!

Thanks again, as always!
SR

Moon Wizard
July 20th, 2014, 01:36
Updating thread in original post with updates to the beta version. Several items you mentioned are addressed as of today.


Rest Hit Dice = Fixed.
Skills = I thought of percolating them up, but decided against it for consistency of locating skills alphabetically across characters.
Deity = A sacrifice for Faction/DCI fields for organized play. Use notes for now. May revisit later once things settle down.
Spell Slot Usage Reset of Rest = Fixed.
Critical attack roll not triggering critical on next damage roll = I need to investigate.


Cheers,
JPG

ShadeRaven
July 20th, 2014, 02:13
Awesome! I'll keep you informed of anything else we come across as we investigate, but sounds like you are almost fixing them faster than we can find them! :D

Irondrake
July 20th, 2014, 05:40
Looks like you covered what I found through tonight's session, except we didn't get a single critical rolled lol

Half the party was unconcious by the end of the night (sudden power shift in NPCs was a bit of a surprise) but they loved it regardless.

ShadeRaven
July 20th, 2014, 05:56
I know this is off-topic, but before the group had made it to the frontier town of the module (no spoilers here), we've already seen a death. A rather nasty creature that speaks of himself in the 3rd person, critted the defender fighter and literally knocked him through dying and into death.

Fortunately, the group found a trussed up dwarf that had been captured (along with at least one other who was imprisoned) and the party is back to being at five members.

Needless to say, there's some new found respect for the lethality of this new system.... and they actually seem to heartily enjoy it!

ShadeRaven
July 20th, 2014, 12:35
@Moon Wizard: I've been meaning to ask. Is there any plans to deal with the Versatile tag in 5E? I am not sure if you'd have some sort of 2H Flag check-circle or such to indicate that an item is being used two-handed, and then try to reference the damage indicated in the properties field, but is sounds like a bit of a headache from the outside.

Also:
I did note that you cannot add a Weapon Attack or a Spell to the Actions Tab until there is one already there in existence.

Request:
While magic items are not nearly as common in 5th Edition as in past editions, there will be reason enough (in my opinion at least) to have the Enhancement field added back to items, along with the Aura/Magic Type field. As it is now, a +1 Dagger is going to be added as a Dagger and it'll be up to the DM/FG Host to alter the associated action entry to reflect both the attack and damage increases.

I may be in the minority, but I still plan on using spells and knowledge checks to give information in a more "roleplay" response (such as, "the dagger gives of a minor dweomer of enchantment" as opposed to "the dagger is +1" even if it's identified name and character sheet will show it as +1 dagger). It's also one of the reasons I really loved seeing the Item: Identification toggle added to Options along with the non-identified name field. Those touches are part of what really makes me love your product.

El Condoro
July 20th, 2014, 12:50
Also:
I did note that you cannot add a Weapon Attack or a Spell to the Actions Tab until there is one already there in existence.

You click the symbol in the bottom right corner and you'll get a little blue sword (weapon) and a blue star (spell) - click those to add weapons and spells. No need for one to be there already. Unless I've completely misunderstood what you're saying! :)

El Condoro
July 20th, 2014, 13:03
Is there a rule reason why unidentified weapons can't be added (drag and drop) to the Actions tab? I set up a Dagger +1 and can drag it onto the Action tab when it's identified but can't when it's set to unidentified.

ShadeRaven
July 20th, 2014, 14:25
You click the symbol in the bottom right corner and you'll get a little blue sword (weapon) and a blue star (spell) - click those to add weapons and spells. No need for one to be there already. Unless I've completely misunderstood what you're saying! :)Ah! Well spotted! I did not notice that. I was used to the radial dial method of adding powers and weapons.

Yeah, I mentioned before that the unidentified weapons didn't go into the action tab. I expect it has something to do with the "masking" of the weapon features, thus the "PC" doesn't actually know what fills those fields. As for whether or not an unidentified version could populate the action tab in the mean time.... I am not sure if that'd cause a problem once the item does get identified. How does that affect the action entry that was filled when it wasn't? It might be a little more complicated than it seems at first glance.

Griogre
July 20th, 2014, 17:05
Is there a rule reason why unidentified weapons can't be added (drag and drop) to the Actions tab? I set up a Dagger +1 and can drag it onto the Action tab when it's identified but can't when it's set to unidentified.

There not a rule reason but a practical one. If you put any value there the player is going to know what the values of the unidentified weapon is just by watching the roll bonuses. So on the theory that *if* you are not going to tell the player the pluses of the weapon/item - neither is the program.

There isn't really a good solution to this. You can just say that unidentified weapons don't have bonuses to hit or do extra damage until they can activate them with a command word or something similar and give them a normal weapon they can use until they identify it. If they do have identify they will probably cast it as a ritual pretty fast but if they don't they may not find out what the weapon is for a while.

Irondrake
July 20th, 2014, 17:54
I've pretty much told my players they need to learn about an unidentified item before they can put it to use, that means equipping it as well. Since the rules for identification are pretty lenient (just about anyone can learn what an item does with study and concentration), this hasn't been a problem for them.

ShadeRaven
July 20th, 2014, 19:12
Although, technically speaking, as 5E exists currently, there's no enchantment/enhancement field, so adding an unidentified item to the Action Tab wouldn't have any additional bearing on the weapon's usefulness.

Still, I am with both of you when it comes to keeping the mystery as a top priority to unidentified items. It's one of the reasons I love this feature in FGs.

Moon Wizard
July 20th, 2014, 19:43
On the magic item records request, the item records have not been updated yet, mainly because there is so little information available on magic items. Just the handful in the Lost Mines adventure.

I think I might wait on this one a bit until I can get more information (i.e. PHB release?), since I don't want to add something and then totally rework it (drops, campaign/module data migration, etc.) It is definitely in the plans though.

Cheers,
JPG

chillybilly
July 20th, 2014, 20:57
Inspiration will be coming in near future. Based on the rules, it will just be a check box on the Main tab of PC sheet for tracking.

Thanks for catch on extra crit dice.

JPG

I was actually going to ask about inspiration. Thrilled to find this will be added!

ShadeRaven
July 20th, 2014, 23:43
On the magic item records request, the item records have not been updated yet, mainly because there is so little information available on magic items. Just the handful in the Lost Mines adventure.

I think I might wait on this one a bit until I can get more information (i.e. PHB release?), since I don't want to add something and then totally rework it (drops, campaign/module data migration, etc.) It is definitely in the plans though.

Cheers,
JPGFair enough. You certainly do enough as is! :)

Although, I seriously doubt we'll see any encompassing view of magic items until mid-November when the DMG comes out. The PHB is unlikely to offer much there, especially when magic creation isn't going to be featured as a player option iirc. We will get to see more examples of magic items with the release of Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it will be just that (like what we see in Phandelver but more of it as it's a bigger release).

We may be waiting a while until get a complete picture, sadly. Patience.... not one of my personal virtues :P

Irondrake
July 20th, 2014, 23:45
We're supposed to be able to run a full campaign starting in August with the release of the PHB. With Hoard of the Dragon Queen, the free monsters and some basic DM information, I'm going to bet we'll have a good idea of how magic will work then. The DMG "should" be mostly how to create additional items, how to modify the rules, how to customize the game and make it ours. :)

El Condoro
July 21st, 2014, 00:07
The 4E PHB had the magic items in it, so I wouldn't be surprised if the 5E one does, too.

Edit: The Magical Items section of the 'Lost Mine' module clearly says 'See the DMG for many more', so clearly the PHB is not where they'll be. :)

ShadeRaven
July 21st, 2014, 00:18
I would be. The magic creation and availability of magic items is going to be dramatically different in 5th Edition. Generally speaking, I don't think we are going to see "Magikus Emporium" stores in town where you can go browse shops for any number of items enchanted. I do not believe we will see much in the way of Magic Creation Feats or similar features for classes, either.

It is for that reason that I expect the magic item inclusion in the PHB to be limited to things like Potions, Spell Casting, and other more disposable items or purchasable services.

It won't be the first time I am wrong on something if the PHB does prove to have a section dedicated to magic items, giving us a well fleshed out list of what will be found out in the wide worlds. And, to be honest, I hope that will be the case this time. The more we get, the better. My gut feeling, though, is that the PHB really is going to be more about what players and their characters have available to them when it comes to class, race, options, customization, and the like. I am guessing that I will have to anxiously await for November (and that which is given in early release snippets) for the book that I am really looking forward to as a DM.

[Edit]Another possibility is that their plans on expanding the Basic D&D PDF with each release of new material might mean that we'll see more DM stuff enter into that freebie going foward and get our answers there.

Moon Wizard
July 21st, 2014, 01:38
ShadeRaven,

I just looked at the critical not triggering that you mentioned previously in this thread. I was able to target an enemy, roll a critical hit, and the damage roll was automatically a critical.

Did you have a target when the critical did not trigger, or were you expecting the critical to automatically trigger any time that a 20 is rolled on attack (regardless of targeting)?

Regards,
JPG

ShadeRaven
July 21st, 2014, 06:11
Moon Wizard: You know, can't get it to replicate now. It's very possible that the non-crit followup was against a non-targeted creature. I have a couple of players that roll their attacks and damage without selecting a foe and I tell them if they've hit or not. Might have been an instance of seeing the [CRITICAL] marker on the attack and expected the damage rolls to take into account the initial critical.

Moon Wizard
July 21st, 2014, 06:49
OK, good to know. Trying to think through how to handle criticals, especially in multi-attack situations. I just wanted to know the use case you guys were looking at.

Cheers,
JPG

ShadeRaven
July 21st, 2014, 11:52
OK, good to know. Trying to think through how to handle criticals, especially in multi-attack situations. I just wanted to know the use case you guys were looking at.

Cheers,
JPGI do not envy you that task!

I've thought long and hard about this because I wasn't sure if I was up to the task either for time management or general knowledge.... that being said...

a) Would there be any use for another set of "hands" contributing to the cause here beyond just forum activity? In other words, if I had the tools/capabilities to help with more concrete matters within FG, would there be need for it?
b) If so, where's a good place to start when it comes to understanding the nature of what's being used (code) within FG? I seriously doubt where my talents once lie would be of use anymore. It's been a while.

It may very well prove that even if there's room for another contributor, my archaic experience is outdated as my programming legacy can now only be found in C/C++ Archaeological Dig Sites where modern programmers now virtually walk through the dust covered function files with their soft-rabbit fur brushes, stopping excited to carefully sweep away the detritus that now obscures an #include file.

In other words, 11-years ago, I sold off my consulting business as a DB Management and Programming company to pursue a more sedentary career as a writer. I have no idea if I am capable of producing more than "HELLO WORLD!" in today's internet driven programming landscape. :D

Do not hesitate to suggest that I am not needed! It may come as a relief, in fact. ;)

Irondrake
July 21st, 2014, 19:17
I've basically told my players that if they roll a critical, they need to roll damage immediately after that otherwise if they make all their attacks first, the critical "gets lost" and regular damage is rolled. Its easy enough to fix (just have them roll an extra weapon die), and I've had to do that on occasion :) ShadeRaven, I think most of the coding for the rulesets is done via LUA scripts. I tried to make sense of them once...but I didn't spend a lot of time on it heh

Moon Wizard
July 21st, 2014, 20:02
You can always hold SHIFT while making damage roll to make it a critical. There is also a critical modifier button in modifiers window.

Moon Wizard
July 21st, 2014, 23:52
Check out the beta in the Laboratory forum.

http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21658-Beta-release-v3-0-7

Cheers,
JPG

Irondrake
July 22nd, 2014, 02:54
Yes, and I need to explain that to my players too, thanks Moon! I've been playing around with it...and posting ;)

lordsoth
July 27th, 2014, 00:09
Will you guys be providing optional resting options that the 5e DMG will apparently provide? I like 5e, but what I hate are the default resting rules that allow you to recover all your hit points with a single long rest.

El Condoro
July 27th, 2014, 00:33
Not sure if rules will stop that tactical approach but the suggestions in this might: http://www.roleplayingtips.com/can-sleep-theyre-dead/

I say 'might' because I haven't read through it yet. He tries to deal with just the problem you seem to be describing.

lordsoth
July 27th, 2014, 01:06
Not sure if rules will stop that tactical approach but the suggestions in this might: http://www.roleplayingtips.com/can-sleep-theyre-dead/

I say 'might' because I haven't read through it yet. He tries to deal with just the problem you seem to be describing.


No for me that is not a problem. I really don't care how many times the party rests or for how long. I'm saying that when I plan to run a 5e game I will be using the optional resting rules in the DMG that are more akin to how 2e worked. I don't want the PCs regaining hit points without the aid of divine magic or a very long rest period. This means that when I click on the "long rest" option I don't want all the damage in the party to automatically disappear. I know the community is greatly divided on the issue of healing and resting. I'm just hoping that some of the options in the 5e DMG are built into the ruleset for Fg2

Moon Wizard
July 29th, 2014, 05:49
There are no other "resting" rules options that I am aware of in officially released material at this point. (i.e. Basic Rules and Starter Set) I'm specifically focusing only on adding features in the core books for the near term.

If I missed them somehow, please let me know the page number and book.

Regards,
JPG

lordsoth
July 31st, 2014, 01:44
There are no other "resting" rules options that I am aware of in officially released material at this point. (i.e. Basic Rules and Starter Set) I'm specifically focusing only on adding features in the core books for the near term.

If I missed them somehow, please let me know the page number and book.

Regards,
JPG


Yes, you are correct. I was simply asking if you guys will include the alternative resting / healing rules that WotC said they put in the DMG.

Just to be clear I wasn't complaining or anything like that :) I think the designers have done a fantastic job of the FG2 5e ruleset thus far. I just can't wait to use it!.

Zeus
July 31st, 2014, 14:29
Once the DMG is released, we'll no doubt review the variant rules and if possible/feasible will look to introduce them as House Rule options (under Campaign Options), this will then allow for a certain level of game customisation and support for variant house rules (from the 3 core rulebooks). If thats not possible, we may be able to implement some of the changes as layered extensions. Either way we won't know until we are a little closer to DMG release date.

Irondrake
August 2nd, 2014, 04:10
While creating an effect that used DISCHK, I learned that specifying a stat required the stat to be spelled out in full and in all lowercase (just like the wiki says ;). Just in case anyone else is trying to use Disadvantage and Advantage effects, this may help ease your frustrations. strength, dexterity, etc must be spelled out in full and all lowercase.