The end of free Hamachi

[Alchemister]

Yes, it's true, Hamachi are ending free subscription. I'm aware that a number of us use Hamachi as a workaround, and am interested to know if anyone can recommend viable alternatives. Currently I'm looking at 'Remote Utilities' which has just started offering its services for free for up to ten PCs. Will post further on this once its been piloted by my gaming group. Other suggestions welcome.

[HoloGnome]

As an alternative in what networking scenario? Is port-forwarding a viable alternative?

[Alchemister]

Port forwarding proved to be a bit of a nightmare for us for various reasons, so we went the VPN (LAN) route which has so far ensured a good year of trouble free gaming. Hamachi did an excellent job, and was very easy to use.

The 'Remote Utilities' is a no go, more for IT remote. Now looking at 'Evolve' and 'Tungle.'

[HoloGnome]

There are a few little tricks in setting up port forwarding, but as long as you have router admin access, know the localhost ip (usually a 10. or 192. address) and set up the firewall access (pc side), FG/Mumble combos work pretty well. It might be worth another look, depending on your configuration and access. Also, there is a port forward FAQ sticky in this forum, if that helps.

Good luck either way.

[Moon Wizard]

For some configurations where the modem/router is locked down (i.e. through hotel routers, community routers, ISP locked down modems/routers, corporate firewalls), a VPN is the only way to allow peer-to-peer connectivity.

Regards,
JPG

[damned]

this direct link still seems to support the free hamchi client?
Unmanaged (https://secure.logmein.com/products/hamachi/download.aspx)

[HoloGnome]

Yes - I understand constraints of port forwarding vs. VPNs. Not too many details about the config in this case. If a VPN is required, forget Hamachi and use a secure tool like Putty.

[HoloGnome]

Yes...of course there had to be an article about it somewhere. Thanks, Google.

Using Putty to set up Fantasy Grounds via SSH (https://tarsis.org/?p=5)

[Alchemister]

Just finished setting up and piloting Tunngle. Works like a dream and extremely easy to set up. If anyone is looking to switch from Hamachi, I advise Tunngle. You can PM me if you run into any issues with setting it up.

[cheechako]

Yes...of course there had to be an article about it somewhere. Thanks, Google.

Using Putty to set up Fantasy Grounds via SSH (https://tarsis.org/?p=5)

That article should be titled "Using Putty and an external server to set up FG". From what I read, the author used Putty combined with a virtual Linux server he rents that is outside of his firewall. I don't think Putty by itself can replace Hamachi.

[damned]

That article should be titled "Using Putty and an external server to set up FG". From what I read, the author used Putty combined with a virtual Linux server he rents that is outside of his firewall. I don't think Putty by itself can replace Hamachi.

yeah the title is somewhat misleading...
without the external server it cant be done.
however you can rent servers capable of this from as little as $10/year.
while this requires a little more setup for the GM - the article doesnt talk at all about securing your linux server - it requires no additional setup for the players which is a big plus.

[cheechako]

Yes, you can find cheap virtual servers to rent. However, since this thread is about the end of a free service, I just thought it best to clarify that free Putty by itself is not enough.

[Trenloe]

Just finished setting up and piloting Tunngle. Works like a dream and extremely easy to set up. If anyone is looking to switch from Hamachi, I advise Tunngle.
This looks very promising - and they say "free forever".

It would be great it you wouldn't mind doing a brief "Steps to get this working with Fantasy Grounds - GM and player guide" post similar to what damned did for Hamachi: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20309-GM-Connection-Issues-Tried-Everything-Try-Hamachi

[damned]

ummm - i just retried Hamachi using the direct link i posted earlier and it still works. I cant find any confirmation anywhere that Hamachi Free is no longer available.

[HoloGnome]

I use Putty all the time for various things - email over VPN, especially - also works globally and is a great tool. It doesn't require an "external server" (meaning additional machine) - all it requires is an instance of an SSH server, which can be anywhere. That just happened to be the configuration in the article.

There are free SSH servers for Windows, and Mac clients are BSD-related and remote login is implemented via activation of an ssh server instance (I think).

I assumed the ssh piece would be understood. While I haven't specifically tried it with FG as a peer-to-peer setup with one computer running an instance of ssh, I'm sure it would probably work just fine. Putty is awesome.

As for Hamachi, I can't say I would be comfortable with exposing the local LAN to relay traffic through a 3rd party, so it might not be a bad idea to search for other solutions. I don't think Tunngle does that and is truly peer-to-peer VPN, but they are also a freemium model, although the up-sell seems to be in the larger MMORPG domain vs. the few people that would connect for FG (+ the addition of other conveniences and automation).

Does Tunngle have ad delivery embedded in the free client?

[Trenloe]

ummm - i just retried Hamachi using the direct link i posted earlier and it still works. I cant find any confirmation anywhere that Hamachi Free is no longer available.
I wonder if it is the usual confusion that "LogMeIn Free" is no longer available - the remote access/support tool they did and made available for free. But LogMeIn Hamachi is still available with the unmanaged 5 user limit (which is without cost)?

[HoloGnome]

Also - if you want a free webhost with SSH support, they are out there, typically with bandwidth caps.

For example:
https://freehostingnoads.net/webhosting.php

Or $1/month if you use more than 200GB for FG (seems like that would be difficult)

Putty may prove to be a viable alternative, whether hosted on a local machine or a remote server.

[damned]

I use Putty all the time for various things - email over VPN, especially - also works globally and is a great tool. It doesn't require an "external server" (meaning additional machine) - all it requires is an instance of an SSH server, which can be anywhere. That just happened to be the configuration in the article.


Putty is a client side tool. Putty isnt a server or a service. Putty is a tool usually used for establishing SSH or Telnet sessions with remote hosts. You can do "things" with and within these sessions but that is not a feature of Putty as such.


There are free SSH servers for Windows, and Mac clients are BSD-related and remote login is implemented via activation of an ssh server instance (I think).

Free/Paid - it doesnt matter. You *need* an end point for your SSH tunnel. What this is doing is creating a tunnel between your computer (running Putty) and your server running an SSH daemon. You then tell the end point to listen on tcp1802 and direct/tunnel the traffic to your computer running the SSH Client (putty).


I assumed the ssh piece would be understood. While I haven't specifically tried it with FG as a peer-to-peer setup with one computer running an instance of ssh, I'm sure it would probably work just fine. Putty is awesome.

Cant speak for anyone else - but I understand what SSH is and what Putty is... Im not sure you have understood the content of the article you linked to (a very good article too I might add).

[damned]

Also - if you want a free webhost with SSH support, they are out there, typically with bandwidth caps.

For example:
https://freehostingnoads.net/webhosting.php

Or $1/month if you use more than 200GB for FG (seems like that would be difficult)

Putty may prove to be a viable alternative, whether hosted on a local machine or a remote server.

the point is - you *need* an external end point. you need to configure this external end point. you need to manage this external end point. you need to secure this external endpoint.
its still a good solution.
its also not really putty that is enabling this solution - putty is just one of many ssh clients that can do this. you cant however do this without an SSH server with a public IP address....

[HoloGnome]

Cant speak for anyone else - but I understand what SSH is and what Putty is... Im not sure you have understood the content of the article you linked to (a very good article too I might add).

Yes. Putty is a client-side tool. Never said/implied anything else. That being said, it has the ability to virtualize local ports and make them appear as other ports/proxies. For example, you can remap browser access to redirect over a Putty ssh connection. You can also remap Outlook pop/smtp accesses so that they are transacted across ssh, etc.

Further, the endpoint is the installed or activated SSH server instance on either the host Mac or PC (or an external server, if you prefer, as in the article, which I do actually understand). Further, if there is an ssh server running on the host computer, Putty obviously has the ability to localhost connect.

Not sure you have understood my previous comments, damned. ;-) Suggest you research further. Happy to work with you to create an FAQ on Putty options at some point.

[damned]

Ahh @Holo - re-read what you just wrote and think about it in the context of this thread....
Beer time I think and its only 945am here.... :)
Better not - Im about to do some interviews for a new junior networking engineer.

[HoloGnome]

Are you referring to the port-forwarding issue? Yes - I realize, but that doesn't mean that Putty and SSH aren't worthy topics for discussion, either in a Peer-to-Peer or externalized context. You should offer the beer to the junior networking engineer during the interview as a drinking-on-the-job integrity check. But...hang on a sec...that may not be an effective test, because it's basically always beer time in kangaroo land, right? ;-)

Who knows what goes on over there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZvT3MHpffk

[damned]

ahhh - i apologise if that last line came out rudely - it wasnt intended to be as such - but reading it now it could... yes... its friday here - the applicants might have started drinking without me already.
gotta run.

[HoloGnome]

What? No worries. https://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/34700000/simpson-the-simpsons-34736140-333-500.jpg

[cheechako]

I know a bit about Putty, but I am not a network expert and I am just getting more confused:


It doesn't require an "external server" (meaning additional machine) - all it requires is an instance of an SSH server, which can be anywhere.

What's the difference between a server (additional machine) and an instance of a server? Can this thing (whatever it is) be inside the firewall that cannot open port 1802?

I thought the article said: port 1802 needs to be open to the Internet. You can do that via SSH, which runs on a "server" (virtual or real machine) somewhere outside of your firewall, and then tunnel (using Putty) through the firewall between that external SSH server and the internal FG computer.

I thought I did understand the SSH piece, but now I feel like maybe I am missing something obvious and misunderstood the article. What am I missing?

[damned]

ok you need a server (server being a computer operating system running on a physical or virtual machine) that is accessible on the internet (eg has a public IPv4 address) on at least TCP 22 (SSH) and TCP 1802 (for FG).
you run an instance of a SSH server/daemon/service on this host
on your computer, that is behind one or more firewalls that you have no control of the inbound rules, but does allow you to do an outbound SSH session, you create a SSH session to your server host.
you can then configure the external host to a) listen on tcp 1802 and b) pass that traffic to your computer inside the SSH session.
i think there is almost 0% chance of doing this on a free webhost account. you need an actual operating system that you have access to run services 9and configure firewalls etc) on.
you can get a very low spec linux VPS server for very little money (as low as $10/year) with which you can do this.
it is a very elegant solution for those stuck behind firewalls but it does require you to be willing to learn a bit about how all this works and how to install and update and secure linux.

for example what i would do is:
visit lowendbox.com or lowendtalk.com and find a low cost but reliable vps provider.
install a mainstream linux distro like centos (the actual install is done for you)
if not familiar with linux install webmin
configure iptables and lock down access to the server on all ports bar webmin (10000), 1802 and ssh (22) via iptables
restrict ssh and webmin access to a limited range of ip addresses (1 or 2 is best!) via iptables
read that article holo linked to for instructions on setting your server to listen on 1802
read lots more links on doing all of the above
if you have a domain name and dns that you can use give your host an easy name to remember like: web.cheechako.com

when you are gming a session you create your SSH tunnel
launch fantasy grounds
your players would connect to web.cheechako.com and away you go...

btw - i tested hamachi today and it still works...

whilst the author used his website address in that article he could do that because his website is running on a vps or dedi server - it doesnt work if you just have shared/cpanel hosting etc.

[damned]

@cheechako

for your info - i tested the below out and it worked just nicely - i missed a couple of steps in my directions though - simple steps - after editing sshd and iptables configs you have to restart the services (onvious to those who use linux but nice to be reminded for those of us who dont use it or dont use it regularly) and the other point to note is that when you click External IP in FG it appears to use http to grab that as it still reports the public ip of your local router and not the ip of the external host you are listening on...

i might write up a tutorial on this with full steps as it is actually very elegant - but it does require an externally hosted server and some linux knowlege...



ok you need a server (server being a computer operating system running on a physical or virtual machine) that is accessible on the internet (eg has a public IPv4 address) on at least TCP 22 (SSH) and TCP 1802 (for FG).
you run an instance of a SSH server/daemon/service on this host
on your computer, that is behind one or more firewalls that you have no control of the inbound rules, but does allow you to do an outbound SSH session, you create a SSH session to your server host.
you can then configure the external host to a) listen on tcp 1802 and b) pass that traffic to your computer inside the SSH session.
i think there is almost 0% chance of doing this on a free webhost account. you need an actual operating system that you have access to run services (and configure firewalls etc) on.
you can get a very low spec linux VPS server for very little money (as low as $10/year) with which you can do this.
it is a very elegant solution for those stuck behind firewalls but it does require you to be willing to learn a bit about how all this works and how to install and update and secure linux.

for example what i would do is:
visit lowendbox.com or lowendtalk.com and find a low cost but reliable vps provider.
install a mainstream linux distro like centos (the actual install is done for you)
if not familiar with linux install webmin
configure iptables and lock down access to the server on all ports bar webmin (10000), 1802 and ssh (22) via iptables
restrict ssh and webmin access to a limited range of ip addresses (1 or 2 is best!) via iptables
read that article holo linked to for instructions on setting your server to listen on 1802
read lots more links on doing all of the above
if you have a domain name and dns that you can use give your host an easy name to remember like: web.cheechako.com

when you are gming a session you create your SSH tunnel
launch fantasy grounds
your players would connect to web.cheechako.com and away you go...

btw - i tested hamachi today and it still works...

whilst the author used his website address in that article he could do that because his website is running on a vps or dedi server - it doesnt work if you just have shared/cpanel hosting etc.

[HoloGnome]

damned - glad to see you understand the elegance of using Putty. Note that your write-up misses one of the points in my original message about using Putty, which may not have been absolutely clear.

Anyone can run an ssh server on their computer - either because sshd is present as a service that can be activated (mac) or because they download and install an ssh server (pc, https://www.freesshd.com/).

You can use Putty to set up a VPN network with port-remapping/intercepting with any machine acting as the server, whether or not it is an FG client or host. So, if 1 person has router/port-forwarding issues, maybe one of the other people playing in the campaign doesn't (very likely). All that matters is that the VPN exists as a common network and that all the ports are mapped correctly.

Alternately, it should not be that difficult to find an external host as we have discussed rather than going through the hassle of installing an entire linux distro in the model where everyone attaches to the external box to establish the VPN. But...there are lots of VPS services out there, including google, if people prefer to build/store an image.

[damned]

hmmm... putty is almost the least important part of this. other ssh clients can also do this.
still the most important part of this equation is having a ssh host with a public ip who you can manage/control so as you can map/control the incoming ports thru that hosts firewall.
you could do it to another computer on a another network behind a separate firewall and then you would still need to manage that remote firewall and any sw firewall on that remote host...

[HoloGnome]

Yes - as I said in my earlier posts...and Putty is the preferred ssh client, especially because of its ability to manage port virtualization. The point is to recognize that an additional external (linux, etc.) server is not required, as you now have done.