Looking for a developer

[hueffmea]

I know many people interested in the development of the 7th Sea ruleset. Several have suggested coming up with a kickstarter campaign to fund a developer to do it.
I'm looking to contact a developer who could produce the ruleset and provide me with an estimate regarding how much it would cost to do so.

[Arion]

With the failure of the ruleset creator to reach its crowdfunding target, i think it would be in everyones interests to have a freelancer/developer wanted subforum. I would probably like to find someone to do a full (commercial) Maelstrom Domesday ruleset including library etc.

[damned]

try S Ferguson for module conversion and there is still some hope on RWfFG...

[dulux-oz]

I might be interested in doing this (or any other Ruleset, for that matter) - provided the price was right.

[Girl-of-Dust]

I'm actually already interested in creating an L5R ruleset which also uses R&K. I'd certainly like to be involved somewhat, as we would be working towards similar projects.

[damned]

I might be interested in doing this (or any other Ruleset, for that matter) - provided the price was right.

ahah! but that is the question isnt it... how much is the right price?

[dulux-oz]

OK everyone (those who PM'd me and everyone else as well), so let's talk.

Anyone undertaking this work or contemplating paying someone to do this work needs to consider the following points - AND needs to have answers for them BEFORE starting.

1) A Ruleset takes several 100 Man-hours to write AND TEST - my Locations Database Extension, for example, has already clocked-up over 200 Man-hours and I'm still not quite complete on Version 2. Thus, it means that the Developer must either take time off work or spend their precious "free time" on the job. In other words, the Developer need to be compensated fairly.

2) Who will own the Copyright to the completed work? - If the Developer is expected to hand over the Copyright then there is a premium for this - this is the price the Client has for the right to on-sell the work for which the Developer will get NO compensation. On the other hand, if the Developer retains the Copyright then the Developer takes the risk of the work not selling, and is compensated at a lower rate for the initial effort.

3) Copyright of Source Material - I don't know how it is in the UK, EU or USA but I suspect it is very similar, if not the same as the situation in Australia: if money changes hands around a Copyrighted piece of work than the owner of the Copyright wants, is entitled to and gets a slice of the action - this includes the type of deal we are talking about here, no matter who ends up "owning" the Ruleset - and no, there is NO excuse acceptable by the courts (or at least, none found so far) that will prevent this from happening. So...

4) Does anyone have a License to the Source Material, or is the Developer expected to "jump through the hoops" to obtain one? - If the Developer does the jumping, then the Developer is entitled to compensation for this.

5) Quality - This is something that the Client needs to consider - do they go for the cheap option of the kid with a couple of years to no experience or do they do the sensible thing (that will ultimately cost them less in the long-run) of going for someone who is experienced, who has the "runs on the board" and is a professional about their work. I'm going to toot my own horn here - 25+ years in the ICT Industry (10 years as an amateur before that), Masters of IT, MBA, Cisco Certification, Microsoft Certification, knowledge and practical experience in 17 different Programming Languages (& give me 4 hours and the appropriate manual and we'll make it 18), Program Manager/Senior IT Project Manager, clients such as the Australian Federal and Queensland and New South Wales State Governments, international experience in South-East Asia, Private and NGO Industry Experience, Extensions and Toolkits on the FG Wiki, etc, etc, etc.

6) Ongoing Maintenance - will the Developer be expected to maintain the Ruleset? If so, for how long, and under what conditions? Will they be compensated for this extra work?

7) Timeframe - this one ties into point (1): how soon does the Client want the Ruleset - the faster, the more expensive.

8) Payment Method - how will the Developer get paid? In instalments, in a lump sum at the start of the Project or at the end, via Cash Deposit, PayPal, Cheque, "favours", etc.

There are probably many other questions to be asked and points to be raised, but I think you get the point.

So, as an example and as a rough (very rough) rule-of-thumb I get compensated at the rate of around $100/hour - depending upon exactly what job I am doing and for whom. So a Ruleset is going to cost around $25,000, depending upon the exact details above - of course, that would include signing over Copyright - but it gives you an idea of what you're looking at - depending upon who does the work and how good they are, and who makes the profits from any sales.

Now, you might find someone who is willing to do things cheaper - but keep in mind the above. Also keep in mind this saying from the building industry: "You can have it cheap, good or quick - pick two."

You get what you pay for.

So have you ever wondered why there are so few Rulesets of the FG Site? Well, if you look at the above you might get an idea, because as Doug has mentioned elsewhere on these forums, the Source Owner gets a slice, SW gets a slice, and the Developer gets very little as a percentage per item - people in the Software Industry make their money by selling lots and lots of items, each one with a very small profit, but it builds up.

So... let's talk. :)

Cheers

[damned]

3) Copyright of Source Material - I don't know how it is in the UK, EU or USA but I suspect it is very similar, if not the same as the situation in Australia: if money changes hands around a Copyrighted piece of work than the owner of the Copyright wants, is entitled to and gets a slice of the action - this includes the type of deal we are talking about here, no matter who ends up "owning" the Ruleset - and no, there is NO excuse acceptable by the courts (or at least, none found so far) that will prevent this from happening. So...


In terms of a ruleset - you cannot copyright the Game Mechanics.. this seems stupid to me but it is true. you can make a ruleset, a fully functioning ruleset, with all the intricate rules etc but you cannot incorporate the fluff that gives the rules life. no background, no setting, no descriptions.


So, as an example and as a rough (very rough) rule-of-thumb I get compensated at the rate of around $100/hour - depending upon exactly what job I am doing and for whom. So a Ruleset is going to cost around $25,000, depending upon the exact details above - of course, that would include signing over Copyright - but it gives you an idea of what you're looking at - depending upon who does the work and how good they are, and who makes the profits from any sales.

so not taking anything away from our esteemed colleague dulux-oz...
lets get serious about funding a RWfFG.
although it must be remembered that the RWfFG will not do all the things that are being discussed in this thread - these dice mechanics also involve some lua magic etc but a good RWfFG would get you the Character Sheet and frame elements etc and then you could get the LUA parts coded as part of a much smaller project.

this is a hobby and most of what happens here happens because of a passion for the hobby. most of the rulesets that are for sale here deliver cents/hour to the programmer. even a project that was to pay the dev $10/hour is going to cost you upwards of $2000. couple that with the fact that fantasy grounds is ever evolving and the developer would need to maintain the ruleset for some period of time at least....

[VenomousFiligree]

I am someone who wants a ruleset produced, however $100/hour in the RPG industry is not acceptable for me to pay. Thanks for your in-depth post.

[damned]

I am someone who want's a ruleset produced, however $100/hour in the RPG industry is not acceptable for me to pay. Thanks for your in-depth post.

I dont expect he will get many nibbles at that rate either but it is a good starting point for some serious haggling!
Out of curiosity - did you have a number in mind?
Do you know what your core requirements are? There are so many different RPGs out there that no one can possibly know them all. I have an entire book case and a large rpgnow account totally full of RPGs and accessories - most of which I have never read (we all have problems!) and some I havent even opened (sorry Arion - my copy of the original Maelstrom is very well worn but I dont think I have ever even opened my new one!)
Do you have mechanics and automation that are a must have? Optional? Nice to haves?

[damned]

another related question....

if there was a second kickstarter for the RWfFG would the OP's be interested in higher backer levels that included some one on one coding time, some hours of coding towards your project, a basic ruleset implementation (very strict deliverables), a more advanced ruleset implementation (very strict deliverables) etc?

[RTFallen]

another related question....

if there was a second kickstarter for the RWfFG would the OP's be interested in higher backer levels that included some one on one coding time, some hours of coding towards your project, a basic ruleset implementation (very strict deliverables), a more advanced ruleset implementation (very strict deliverables) etc?

Even though I have no plans on delving into rulesets yet. That would interest me, and may get me to pledge more money to the project (depending on spare money).

Resire

[VenomousFiligree]

I dont expect he will get many nibbles at that rate either but it is a good starting point for some serious haggling!
Out of curiosity - did you have a number in mind?
Do you know what your core requirements are? There are so many different RPGs out there that no one can possibly know them all. I have an entire book case and a large rpgnow account totally full of RPGs and accessories - most of which I have never read (we all have problems!) and some I havent even opened (sorry Arion - my copy of the original Maelstrom is very well worn but I dont think I have ever even opened my new one!)
Do you have mechanics and automation that are a must have? Optional? Nice to haves?
I don't have a number in mind at the moment. I'm now thinking to pay for certain parts of the ruleset. I can do most XML, I struggle with Lua.

The system is Barbarians of Lemuria and uses a 2d6 v difficulty number approach. In some situations you roll more dice and take highest / lowest, much like advantage and disadvantage in D&D Next. This would be my main stumbling block.

[dulux-oz]

In terms of a ruleset - you cannot copyright the Game Mechanics..

Yeah, I was aware of this - I just "glossed over it" so as not to overly complicate the point I was trying to make. :)


so not taking anything away from our esteemed colleague dulux-oz...

No offence implied or taken :)


this is a hobby and most of what happens here happens because of a passion for the hobby. most of the rulesets that are for sale here deliver cents/hour to the programmer. even a project that was to pay the dev $10/hour is going to cost you upwards of $2000. couple that with the fact that fantasy grounds is ever evolving and the developer would need to maintain the ruleset for some period of time at least....

Thanks for making that point clear - that's pretty much what I was trying to get across but I wanted to put it in the way I did so that people would know the reasons/background behind why the Developer Community here says "Its not as easy as people first think, it takes time, etc".


I am someone who wants a ruleset produced, however $100/hour in the RPG industry is not acceptable for me to pay. Thanks for your in-depth post.

You're welcome, and, to be honest, I didn't expect anyone who's not a Company (or something like that) to be able to afford these rates - I Consult to State & National Governments and National & International Companies after all. :)


I dont expect he will get many nibbles at that rate either but it is a good starting point for some serious haggling!

As I said, I don't really expect to get that type of money out of hobbyists (unless they happen to represent a Company - like I run) - what I wanted to do was point out to everyone the types of things that need to be considered and also the timeframes/costs/etc that apply.

Having said that, it is a serious offer if someone - or, more likely, a group of someones - wants to take me up on it. As I said, the example rate quoted above would be if I was required to sign away my Copyright - if people want to get together and "crowd fund" a Ruleset then I'm sure we can come up with something - it all depends on how many want it and how badly (ie how much $$$) they want it.

Cheers

[hueffmea]

Thanks,
Let me address a few of these specific to 7th Sea.
7th Sea is owned by Alderac entertainment, and therefore the copyright will be held by them. According to this, https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?11156-Want-to-produce-official-FG-products-adventures-rulesets SmiteWorks has an agreement with them to create the ruleset it just hasn’t been picked up for development. The system worked out by them is that 15% of each sale would go to the developer, and the rest would be divided between FG and Alderac.

If I’m not mistaken that would take us down to #6. I would suggest that the ongoing maintenance wouldn’t be an issue. No new material is being made for the game and I’m assuming that since the developer would be getting funds for every copy sold, they would be interested in keeping out any major bugs that would cause critical failures.

#7 Timeframe although it would be amazing to have this right now, 7th Sea players are a patient people. They never actually stopped making material it was shelved in 2006 and there were promises that new material would come out. Even the line editor was told that something would eventually come down the pipe until 2010. Thus if this project gets completed in a year I’d call it a win. If I’m not mistaken that would be about 4 hours of work per week.

#8 Seems the easiest. We would simply set standard milestones and schedule regular payments based on the attainment of those milestones.
As for the example given, unfortunately John Wick didn’t even get paid that much and he was one of the lead writers. After looking at your background you seem overqualified for the job. I also wouldn’t think that we could raise much more than 6 to 8 thousand even using Kickstarter.

[dulux-oz]

If I’m not mistaken that would take us down to #6. I would suggest that the ongoing maintenance wouldn’t be an issue. No new material is being made for the game and I’m assuming that since the developer would be getting funds for every copy sold, they would be interested in keeping out any major bugs that would cause critical failures.

I was refering to ongoing maintence because FG keeps on being developed. :)

Maybe not - when FG went from 2.x to 3.x a fairly large number of Rulesets didn't come across too well - some of those Ruleserts are, of course, being upgraded, but some are not. I seem to recall someone explicitly stating that they would not be maintaining an "old" Ruleset they developed because it wasn't economically viable to do so.


As for the example given, unfortunately John Wick didn’t even get paid that much and he was one of the lead writers. After looking at your background you seem overqualified for the job.

Yes, you are perfectly correct - John didn't get that much. I would put it to you, however, that Computer Programming is a more highly skilled and thus highly paid profession than writing, let alone game design writing - I mean, just look at the industry average earnings for both industries.

As for being over qualified - that's a judgment call on your part - and one I believe that you are under-qualified to make - unless you are a Brain Surgeon or an Astronaut then you can't tell if another Brain Surgeon or Astronaut is over- or under-qualified (respectively). :) No offence implied or taken. :) What I think you mean is that I'm too expensive for you - and, again, you are probably right.

As I said, in Post #14 while it was/is a genuine offer, I don't really expect to be taken up on it - I was attempting to point out a few relevant concerns for both those contemplating hiring someone and those contemplating being hired.

Cheers

[VenomousFiligree]

If you hire Balfour Beatty (https://www.balfourbeatty.com/) to pave your drive, you pay Balfour Beatty prices.... ;)

[Arion]

I think this is the major issue behind FG (as has been discussed before)

Without specialist knowledge it is difficult to create a specific ruleset. Without a ruleset (or at least character sheet) it is very difficult to play any given game. But the specialist knowledge comes at a high price and games don't generate huge income....

Unless FG becomes very widely spread amongst online gamers. Which it won't until it has rulesets for many of the games.

Catch 22!

[Valarian]

There are so many different RPGs out there that no one can possibly know them all. I have an entire book case and a large rpgnow account totally full of RPGs and accessories
I knew I wasn't the only one! Roleplayers Anonymous beckons.

[Paul Pratt]

I had a working rule set for 7th Seas in FG 2.0. In 3.0 most of it is broken, however the most important script, Roll/Keep still works, with exploding d10's. Huffmea, PM an e-mail address and I will gladly share what I have so far. See if it begins to meet an expectation.

To develop rule sets from scratch with original graphics is incredibly high. I have 200+ hours just in the changes I made to the working 40k rule set Sciencephile made. I would think if someone wants to commission a set of rules, they would need to at least provide a guideline of the expectations of automation, graphics and inclusions to even begin to negotiate a price.

Library modules are an entirely different matter and are time consuming on their own. Plus these can't be distributed without Licensing issues. Who tries to obtain those in a commissioned effort?

I have done Mongoose's Conan, 7th Seas, work on 40k, and really couldn't begin to put a price tag on the efforts. So much of it is based on other peoples work, I mean if its layered off CoreRPG wouldn't someone feel compelled to pay SmiteWorks for that effort to begin with? Borrowing 3.5 code and getting paid for Moon's efforts? To me a lot of this is driven like MMO add-on's. WoW is a great example. Sure it is specialist knowledge, people do it as a labor of love and then open it to the community. If something doesn't exist, sure ask for it, but I think if people sat down and tried they would find it isn't that hard.

I had zero coding knowledge or xml knowledge, between the guides in the Wiki, the forums, and looking at LUA websites, I can get things done. I also think this is a fantastic community for help. The Roll/Keep script is something "Shin" from these forums actually wrote helping me along.

*Rambling done*
The cost as I see it would be well into the $1000's for the developers efforts and time, and maintenance. The Libraries would be additional, and the official rule books and supplements provided to the developer.

My 2 cents
-Paul

[Trenloe]

The way a lot of development is handled is via a royalty payment to the developer/converter - this obviously has the potential for very little return if the ruleset doesn't get taken up by the community.

The bottom line is that for software development of niche products, in the RPG industry "normal" IT/software development rates are just not feasible for the publisher. It is similar for authors who write RPG material or artists who create RPG artwork - their rates are way, way less than they would get for similar work on a commercial project outside of the RPG "industry". Basically, there are very few RPG publishers who can live off money they make from their products - in fact, I'd guess that most will be lucky to break even. It's a hobby that people are passionate about - bringing their, and other author's, creations into the world for us to enjoy.

As a result, $100/hour is never going to be paid - even Paizo and WotC don't pay that much for software development. In this hobby, niche publishers are even going to struggle to pay $10/hour to be perfectly honest. To the best of my knowledge Smiteworks don't pay a flat fee, they pay royalties - this is the least risk for them, but is quite a risk for the developer who might end up with very little payment in the end.

Any ruleset developer has to look at this as "work" within a hobby they enjoy - how many people spend 100's of hours creating rulesets, modules and extensions for the community without getting paid a cent? If a ruleset developer can get some form of royalty payment and/or quite a low level of a fixed payment then they should go for that. As a recommendation - develop something for a game you are interested in/enjoy/play - so you'll get some use out of it, even if the only person who buys the end result is your mum!

Is it right/fair that spending 100s of hours work returns very little? Of course not, but that is the nature of the "hobby" we are in... I'd love to get paid even 1/10th of my "day job" rate for the "work" I do within the hobby - but that is never, ever, going to happen - I know a lot of publishers, their financial constraints, how much effort they put in for a few $$ return (if any) and so know exactly where they are coming from. I also know a lot of freelance RPG developers who have very well paid day jobs but get paid very little for their many hours of RPG writing - they know and understand that. I know you can look at coding differently to writing - but in the end it is the same thing for the publisher, they're paying for development of a product that they'll get very little return on themselves and may even make a loss if they pay an up-front fee and the ruleset either isn't popular or turns out to have problems down the line.

The best anyone should hope for is a bit of a retainer and then a small royalty from sales - the norm being just the royalty. If you can get more then good on ya, but don't expect it - if you are expecting it then I think Fantasy Grounds development is going to be extremely disappointing for you and I'd recommend looking elsewhere to make a few extra $$$.

[damned]

I knew I wasn't the only one! Roleplayers Anonymous beckons.

we could have a few long cold beverages and wax lyrical about all the great games we have yet to try :)

[lokiare]

As someone said elsewhere your best bet is to do a kickstarter. Start with a low amount of money and do the extensions or whatever they are called if you go over. This way you can say I have X amount of money to spend on this project and then you can start talking to developers to see what they are willing to do.

To the poster above with the impressive resume. I'm a software developer myself and you really are overqualified. The only thing needed to program a ruleset for FG is knowledge of XML, LUA and the ability to reverse engineer LUA and XML code (mostly because the documentation is not very helpful in some cases). Other than that most of your experience won't apply. It really is a very simple system to use to create a rule set.

[dulux-oz]

To the poster above with the impressive resume. I'm a software developer myself and you really are overqualified. The only thing needed to program a ruleset for FG is knowledge of XML, LUA and the ability to reverse engineer LUA and XML code (mostly because the documentation is not very helpful in some cases). Other than that most of your experience won't apply. It really is a very simple system to use to create a rule set.

Yes, I'm well aware of that - the point I was trying to make was that for someone to engage a professional to do the work requires that professional to either (a) take time out of their actual work (hence having to pay the equivalent rate to what that person would get for their job), or (b) take time away from their personal life - and for me, if I'm giving up my personal life then I want to get paid at my "regular job" rate :)

As far as knowledge, skills, etc, are concerned, I would put it to you that, while you are certainly correct, what is also required is knowledge of the business, tax, legal implications, etc, that a "worker bee coder" (and I have no idea if that description applies to you, personally, or not) doesn't generally have too the level required for this type of thing, whereas a "freelance coder", who has to know and be experienced in that extra "stuff" to be effective, does have the required extra- (or meta-) knowledge.

Q: What does McDonalds Corp. sell?

If you answered hamburgers than I'm afraid you're incorrect - McDonalds Corp. sells hamburger restaurants. My point: there's a difference between what is seen by the majority of people and the actual reality - unless you have experience in the extra "stuff" then you wont see the reality, only the (incomplete) perception of the reality.

So, I may be over-qualified if you only consider the coding (no, I am over-qualified if you only consider the coding), but this isn't about coding - its about being engaged as a coder in a freelance capacity, which requires the extra knowledge and experience (if you want to do things properly) - and, while I may be over-qualified in those areas as well I suspect that there are very, very few on these boards who have any qualifications and/or experience in these areas (coupled with the coding skills both you and I have).

That's one of the main reason that the vast majority of the coders in the world are employees - they don't know (or do know but don't want to have to handle) the extra "stuff" that the professional freelancers do. In fact, that's why approx. 75% of the population are employees, while of the remaining 20% are self-employed, 4% are business owners with others working for them and 1% are purely investors.

I don't deny that FG is a (relatively) simply system to code in- as an armature. But being a professional freelancer in this (or anything really) requires not just the direct skills but also the extra "stuff" above. For example (rhetorical Q): how many people have negotiated three or more contracts (or even 1) for professional services?

And actually, for you and I its relatively simple, but its NOT (relatively) simple for the vast majority of others - hence this thread, requests for Tutorials, and the fact that SW can make money out of this.

OK, so what does this all boil down to: IMNSHO it boils down to the following choices:

Learn how to do be a coder and do the coding yourself - very cheap in terms of money, unknown chance of something going wrong, if something goes wrong you're on your own.
Engage an armature coder who has the coding skills necessary to do the work for you - this is the same as, in effect, hiring your bodybuilder neighbour to stand guard at your 21st party - pretty cheap in terms of money, relatively high chance of something going wrong, if something goes wrong then you have no protection apart from suing your neighbour.
Engage a professional pure coder who has all of the coding skills and experience necessary to do the work for you - this is the same as, in effect, hiring a cop to stand guard at your 21st party - not cheap in terms of money, moderate chance of something going wrong, if something goes wrong then you have no protection apart from suing the cop, or
Engage a professional freelance coder who has all of the coding skills and has the necessary extra "stuff" and experience to do the work for you - this is the same as engaging a security firm (who has all the necessary insurances, business guarantees, etc) to guard your 21st party - really not cheap in terms of money, low chance of something going wrong, if something goes wrong then you are protected by the firms legal requirements etc.


Just my $0.02 worth :)

Cheers

[damned]

Just my $0.02 worth :)

Cheers

Actually probably about $27.50 worth inc GST.

[dulux-oz]

Actually probably about $27.50 worth inc GST.

Then it's value for money, isn't it :p

[Blacky]

As a result, $100/hour is never going to be paid - even Paizo and WotC don't pay that much for software development
WotC certainly did, and probably still do; and much more than that. But not for FG ruleset of course.

The fundamental issue of Fantasy Grounds on this subject is that it's a vicious circle. FG isn't very attrctive (or not at all) without a decent ruleset for the game(s) we are currently playing, but to have these ruleset FG needs a large user base (meaning more funds for SmiteWorks to invest, statiscally more coder doing community ruleset, more publishers open to license deals, and so on). It's chicken and egg.

I only see two good ways out of it: several publishers or rpg authors, probably young new ones, push for FG ruleset for their games including a few very hype ones ; or a long (as in each and every week for several years without interruption or mixed messages) and steady effort from SmiteWorks to improve things on all front.

As for the publishers, right now I see nothing.

As for SmiteWorks, they are already somwhat/mostly doing that: layering and CoreRPG to easy maintenance and development, steady presence on the forums and answering questions and providing support, selling through Steam, itty-bitty micro improvement on the documentation (wiki), somewhat keeping an eye opened for new potential blockbusters (Numenera), and exploring the future (the Unity engine project).

But again that last one is in the long haul, very very (as in welcome D&D 8th edition) long haul.

Maybe if Steam sales come through they'll be able to get a good part time 3rd person, like a good developer focusing on Unity, the overhaul engine, and technical headaches like multiplatform compatibility helping JPG focus more on rulesets, manual, code comments, etc. for example.

[Trenloe]

WotC certainly did, and probably still do; and much more than that.
Are you seriously saying that WotC pay the equivalent of an annual salary of $192,000 to a software developer? And "much more than that"?!?

Glassdoor suggests $77k - $83k: https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Wizards-of-the-Coast-Software-Developer-Salaries-E4718_D_KO21,39.htm An hourly rate of less than $45/hour.

[sciencephile]

I agree. I am a project manager and I work with a lot of developers from both public and private entities. The average private industry computer programmer salary I have seen is closer to about $58/hour.

[Blacky]

I know that WotC payed more than that for computer people, and did so late 90's early 2000's. But I'm talking about specific missions (it's not a weekly/monthly salary), and for things much more important like Y2K compatibility, getting critical internal systems back up, and such. In part (but only in part) because they tend to pay a company that send someone over, so it's not a salary but viewed as a “cost”.

[Blacky]

I agree. I am a project manager and I work with a lot of developers from both public and private entities. The average private industry computer programmer salary I have seen is closer to about $58/hour.
Because you are all talking about two different things.

If you hire a developer supposedly for several years, maybe months, you are mostly right.

If you hire a developer for 3 hours, or 10, the hourly rate is (or can be) much much higher than that. And it's quite logical because usually you don't pay for anything else (health coverage, union costs, paid holidays, whatever).

It's exactly like when you call a plumber because your house is flooding. You don't pay him minimum wages :)

[Trenloe]

Because you are all talking about two different things.
Correct, we're talking about a software developer for a roleplaying product in the year 2014 - not "Y2K compatibility" or "getting critical internal systems back up" or anything else like that 15 years ago.

I apologise if my comments about how much WotC or Paizo would pay for a software developer, while talking about the cost of a software developer for niche RPG products, in a thread talking about the cost of software development for a niche RPG product could have possibly been interpreted as talking about core IT operations for a large company.

[Arion]

Maybe there is an answer to this.

I could start a thread in general discussion (maybe made a sticky?) where people can post requests for rulesets/character sheets. I could update post 1 every time a page is filled with a running tally.

And maybe we have a rough price for an amateur to create this (say £100). For something like Maelstrom Domesday, which is my game, i would pay that myself and make it freely available. But i for example would also love to see a Harnmaster character sheet. Columbia games may pay (they would be asked) but if not, and a coder was interested in creating it, the cost could be split between multiple backers. It makes it an expensive way for those individuals to get a character sheet, but if the backers are non-coders, at least they can get it. It would then be released freely.

This way, gamers could get character sheets they want, even though they may have to pay a bit for it. We as a community increase the number of available rulesets and thus the attractiveness of the software. More users means more people to split new character sheet funding between.

There would be a few minor issues to iron out (Escrow, IP owner communication etc) and there would need to be both willing backers and amateurs willing to create a character sheet/theme for a smallish amount, but i think it could work.