Rectangular Grids...

[HoloGnome]

I am starting to play around with map grids. Why can't they be rectangular? Grid functionality should track computer monitors (and app window shape). Now I understand why the FG maps I see are square. Is there any plan to build in rectilinear grid functionality? Or, am I missing a control somewhere that removes the square constraint?

[HoloGnome]

Oh - single grid squares, not entire grid area. That kind of explains it. ;) OK - but it still doesn't work the way I want it to. I made a nice parchment background image against a stone wall, and I want to be able to control what part of the image has the grid. I didn't want it printed over the entire image. OK - I'll start over :-/

[HoloGnome]

OK - here's what I'm going with: I made a 1500x1000 canvas sized for FG running full-screen on a 1080p monitor. Grid size of 25 should give something bigger than a football field and not end up clipped off screen with FG's quirky image handling. (the image scaling/viewing controls need to be improved).

Maybe it will be useful to others as a map grid canvas for the layer/tile approach.

[Bidmaron]

I don't understand your beef here, Gnome.

[HoloGnome]

I misunderstood how the grid worked because I had never used it. When I defined a grid, I thought I was drawing the grid, not just 1 square. Then, I thought it didn't align, but that was because (for whatever reason) the grid does not fit itself exactly to the window even though it could - it draws misaligned and you have to use the fine alignment grid tools to align it. But, I didn't initially know there were fine alignment tools. I created a canvas sized so that the grid would match perfectly, but it seemed not to. Anyway - just my own user errors/learning curve and a reflection of my initial use of the grid as currently implemented, in case anyone wants usability feedback.

The feedback from my grid experiment is:
1. The grid could ideally align itself with a square starting in the top left corner, rather than randomly misaligned. That way, pre-calculated map sizes for a particular grid size would auto-fit without tweaking.
2. It would be nice to define the area in which the grid draws/applies, rather than having it cover the entire image.
3. It would be nice if the grid fit inside shapes objects - ie. Draw shape, apply grid with context controls (per shape), perhaps supporting multiple grid shapes per map (basic object drawing functionality). Grid moves with shape object and object is selectable (as in any ms office suite program or drawing app)
4. The grid numbers are obscured when the box size starts to go below 20 (cursor interferes) and the numbers are tiny.
5. Once you draw a grid, you don't know the size when you go back to the map at a later date. The addition of a numerical control might help and also provide user feedback as to the current grid size for the image. To set a grid of 15, I had to choose 20, then back it off 5 steps with the "-" control, and in order to set 20, I had to drag the mouse perfectly. Typing a 15 and hitting enter would have been much simpler and more user-friendly.
6. I want to be able to control the grid opacity. For example, right now, the grid is either on/active or off/inactive. However, some maps and tiles come pre-gridded and don't perfectly align. It should be possible to turn on the grid, get the alignment as close as possible (where the GM is willing to sacrifice some small amount of accuracy to use a pre-gridded map), and then make it invisible so that it doesn't interfere with underlying images. Obviously there are various work-arounds to this one (pre-define map canvas and grids as I have done in my Armory thread: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?21303-1500x1000-map-canvas - see the 1380x900, 750x525 and 525x750 grid zips; or don't use pre-gridded maps). Regardless, a basic visibility toggle for an active grid would still be very useful. Bonus points for grid color/opacity selectors.

[damned]

grid colours/opacity shoudl be on the vote list it has been mentioned a few times.
the grid will cover the whole map - i dont see a lot of times where this could cause an issue so i dont think that one will get much traction :)
the way i typically use grids on my images is that i either have a grid already drawn on images and i just pick a square at random and draw my grid to match that one and that auto tiles out across my image - or if i dont have a grid i find an object whose size is the same as the grid size - so same principle.
most of the time - grids are used at 32px or greater. i think from a previous post the most popular sizes are/were: 64px, 50px, 32px. i use 50px 90% of the time. the other 10% of the time Im just confusing myself.
i personally dont really care if my inimage grid and my fg grid dont align perfectly - its just an aid and im more interested in playing it out - ive never had a player complain to me that the grids are off! they complain about other things i do though...
:)

[gmkieran]

I think the existing grids on many map graphics may be part of the reason the grid function in FG doesn't align itself with the window - because many GMs, like damned and I are trying to align to the existing grid and then use the fine-tuning to adjust as necessary. That said, I see the point of wanting the grid aligned with the window, but I also wish it were possible to find un-gridded examples of every map I ever want to use. ;) I tend to adjust grid size to the intended scale of my map, too, since I often use high-level maps that somehow end up with my characters on them, anyway (even when it's not really appropriate, because I don't HAVE a detail map of wherever they decided they wanted to go); I've encountered the cursor interfering with the grid size in that instance and it would be nice if it didn't do that. I would love to see grid opacity added, however, because it annoys ME when FG's grid and the existing grid don't align, regardless of what my players think. :D

Cheers!
GMK

[HoloGnome]

grid colours/opacity should be on the vote list it has been mentioned a few times.

Thanks for the pointer, damned - I was able to find 1 entry in the WL, voted and left additional comments. ;) I tried to look for visibility, but the wishlist is missing a search option, and I don't have time to go through every page looking for ideas. FG may want to look for a new wishlist mechanism that supports basic searching.


re:grid size
Hmmm...I am leaning towards smaller grid size because of FG's issues with image scaling and window management/sizing. From some basic testing, it looks like smaller grids will work better for me and allow me to keep the whole map on screen. How do you manage zoom with a grid size of 50 for large maps? I noticed small player/npc token scaling at smaller grid sizes - was definitely tiny. Based on your experience, what are the other gotchas of smaller grid use - like 15x15, as I intend?


re:grid transparency
The issue for me (and gmkieran above) with visibility is that I don't want to game through double grid spaghetti when things don't align. There are numerous advanced solutions, including opacity, using grid dots or corner cross-hairs, etc., but the simplest is probably just a visibility toggle. Maybe it will be possible. I admire your double-vision grid tenacity. ;)


re:multiple grid areas per map
The intended context in my feedback is to be able put multiple levels on the same map page, where they may not necessarily align in the same manner for sizing or aesthetic reasons. Maybe one mini-map is a zoomed/detail view or the maps are shifted to make the best (or most pleasing) use of space on the page. The workarounds are: make them align, or don't do it and just use single maps/page. In this feedback point, I was also interested in the visual aesthetic of being able to create a nice map with cool borders, legends and other content and only have the grid apply in the spot where it is relevant to prevent it from spoiling the visual appeal of the rest of the work. Maybe that explanation helps add more context. Perhaps a future version of FG will be able to achieve a hybrid aesthetic solution vs. the current one which is purely functional.

Edit: Also - another implied benefit not explicitly stated above - if you can define different grids on the same page as objects, then they could also theoretically be different grid sizes (such as in a detail or combat view vs. a main view).


re:finding ungridded maps
Haha! Good one, and it's not even April Fool's Day! :D But, yeah - with you on the grid size selection and visibility.

[gmkieran]

I like the idea of a corner cross-hairs option that would allow the user to define 1 grid square by selecting its four corner points. Then, FG could generate an invisible grid of squares that size for purposes of defining token placement and snap-to, but not actually display the grid. This would be particularly helpful for pre-gridded maps in that you wouldn't have any visible overlay issues except possibly token placement and having the token's aoe square slightly offset is much less visually frustrating than having double-vision lines everywhere, at least imo.

Would something like that be possible within the coding of the game or does the code require a visible grid (for some reason) to define placement and snap-to functionality?

Just some thoughts.

[Moon Wizard]

The visible grid is more to give the GM something to align the grid, and for reference purposes during play (especially for ungridded maps).

It's not currently possible to change grid color in the client, though it is a high ranking item on the wish list.

Cheers,
JPG

[trevorgall]

Any progress on this.. most annoying thing with FG by far.. having a grid.. over a map with a grid.. which most have..make it invisible please?

[Andraax]

Yeah, that's why I prefer to make and use maps with no grid...

Plus I usually use hexes instead of squares.

[Nylanfs]

Free maps

https://www.dungeonmastering.com/tools-resources/387-free-dd-maps

https://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mwa/archive2003