NPC Threat Range and Critical Damage

[HoloGnome]

When defining attacks for NPCs, how do you define both an increased threat range and increased damage multiplier? After playing around with the syntax, I can do one or the other but not both.

For example:
Changing the Threat Range of an NPC Attack: Skillet of Doom +4(1d8+4/17-20) - works fine and will crit roll on a 17
Changing the Damage Multiplier for NPC weapon: Skillet of Doom +4(1d8+4/x4) - works fine on a crit roll of 20 for 4x crit damage

But...if I define the NPC weapon as: Skillet of Doom +4(1d8+4/17-20/x4) [or any other permutation/ordering, including using commas, spaces, etc.], it only defaults to whatever is after the last slash.

Subsequently, I looked around for a syntax guide in the help for NPCs and couldn't find it.

So, what's the syntax secret to creating NPC weapons that have both increased threat range and crit. damage multipliers? Or, is it a bug?

Thx.

[Trenloe]

Assuming you're talking about the 3.5e ruleset?

Skillet of Doom +4(1d8+4/17-20/x4) works fine for me.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39085830/Screenshots/Fantasy%20Grounds/Crit%20Range%20and%20Multiplier.JPG


So, what's the syntax secret to creating NPC weapons that have both increased threat range and crit. damage multipliers? Or, is it a bug?

Definitely not a bug. Syntax as per here: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20592-3-5e-How-do-you-make-NPCs-with-criticals-greater-than-x2

[HoloGnome]

Thx, Trenloe. Tried it like that - wasn't working. I will try again and reply.

[HoloGnome]

OK, I tried again and confirmed that it worked, then reproduced the problem. There is a bug here and it relates to how the text insertion point is being handled vs. changes to the attack item text that affect the critical hit syntax.

Step to Reproduce (one way it happens - saw it in both the NPC sheet and combat tracker, but maybe easier to reproduce in the combat tracker):
1. Add an NPC to the combat tracker
2. Create an Attack - say Spiked Spatula +1 (1d6/17-20)
3. Do some rolls and verify that a crit comes up on 17 - the combat tracker thinks the spatula is 17-20/x2
4. Go back and edit Spiked Spatula syntax to 1d6/17-20/x4
5. Hold the shift key down and roll crit damage --> only 2 dice are rolled

Also, at this point, the insertion point is stuck in the entry, and even if you click somewhere else, then go back and roll again, it will still be stuck. If you force the insertion point to go somewhere else (clicking, then using cursor keys, etc.), the combat tracker will finally adjust the attack attribute to the new setting and it will work as expected.

So, the problem is that unless the insertion point leaves the specific attack, it won't be updated, and the insertion point handling is buggy. In my first post above, I was in a mode where no matter what I changed, nothing updated if I had both slashes in place - one or the other would update, but not both. The other possible factor in this problem is that the smart highlighting may be interacting with the insertion point. Also, the highlighting is very problematic, because if you are trying to edit weapon specs, it gets in the way, or suddenly highlights something you didn't intend while you are backspacking and you end up completely deleting multiple entries with no undo. Kind of frustrating.

The fix for this issue should probably be that whenever there is activation of a weapon attack/damage from the combat tracker or NPC sheet, the code should make sure it has updated the text between the () to pick up any user edits, regardless of whether or not the insertion point has been changed or the entry is perceived as closed. Waiting to update based on the insertion point moving is not the right metaphor. Also, in entries with only 1 weapon, there's nowhere to go.

Hope this helps.

[HoloGnome]

Also - I would recommend that someone modify the help entries for the NPC sheet to indicate the syntax for weapon handling. I looked in multiple places in the wiki for the syntax and couldn't find it.

[Moon Wizard]

The format is the same as all of the Wizards and Paizo stat blocks, which is why it is not documented separately.

Looked into the situation described, it only happens in CT (not NPC record). It has to do with delayed update being inherited. I'll drop it in the next version.

Regards,
JPG

[HoloGnome]

OK - Sounds good.

On the wiki side, it would be helpful to add a link for clarity's sake or new users, even if it is to a global FG page explaining how the syntax works, application-wide. New users don't necessarily make the syntax leap. In my case, I actually had it right, but was confused when I couldn't make it work.

[Moon Wizard]

It's actually mentioned here in the Attacks field description.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/3.5E_Combat_Tracker#Offensive_Subsection

JPG

[Trenloe]

You know what I said a while back about people not reading the user guides! ;)

[HoloGnome]

Haha! Mention is a good way to describe it. Bury it any deeper and players will need ground-penetrating radar to find it. :D It probably deserves direct explanation in the context where it is used with a few examples (or as a global link, etc.).

One other thing I noticed about the NPC sheets and the Combat Tracker relating to DB updates is that if you change the weapon on the NPC sheet and then close the window, the Combat Tracker doesn't actually update until it comes back around again to the NPC. It should probably update when the window is closed. I thought my change wasn't being saved/propagated, but it was, just not when I wanted it to be.

[jasonisop]

You know what I said a while back about people not reading the user guides! ;)

To be fair there is very, very little in the guide
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/3.5E_NPC_Sheet

[Trenloe]

To be fair there is very, very little in the guide
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/3.5E_NPC_Sheet
More here (as referenced above): https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/3.5E_Combat_Tracker#Offensive_Subsection

[jasonisop]

See that assumes everyone uses the combat tracker, and you know what they say about assumptions. What about those that do not use the Combat Tracker and would not have thought to look at a feature that you would use after setting up an NPC. Sure it says to format it as the books do, but really a simple explanation in it would help a bunch. I have used FG since 2005 and just now found that I can do (1d6 fire plus 1d6 acid) for the damage on the NPC sheet, using a "+" did not work as I would have expected it to, this would have been easy to explain on the NPC Sheet wiki page.

[HoloGnome]

I agree - the wiki tends to be light on detail and there should be a clear explanation with examples about attack/damage syntax for NPCs in the NPC sheet section.

[darrenan]

Well, I will state the obvious and say that...it is a wiki, therefore anyone can update it right? If you want it to be better, make it better ;-)

[HoloGnome]

Hmm...Is it obvious? I assumed that it was a company-maintained resource.

[Moon Wizard]

Well, technically it is a wiki platform, but it is only editable by SmiteWorks staff. A wiki format was chosen for the ease of publishing and layout, but it does not have the granular permissions we wanted.

I generally prefer managed content over open content. You get better structure/quality, though you miss out some of the drive-by contributions.

If anyone would like to submit content for the wiki, just send me MediaWiki content in a text file, and I will import it.

Cheers,
JPG

[Moon Wizard]

We are open to user contributions to the wiki. They just need to be submitted.

Regards,
JPG

[HoloGnome]

OK - good to know. Thx.