Making a Ruleset based on existing RPG's, Permissions from Publishers? Q&A

[Magnatude]

Heya All.
This is a question and hopefully some discussion about making Rulesets (Modules and Extensions) and Permissions to do so.

Smiteworks has gone forth and re-created a lot of Rulesets for us to enjoy, and therefore have the most experience here in obtaining permissions. (And I would love to hear more from Doug on this as well)


The reason why I'm inquiring:

I'm currently building a few add-on Modules for CoreRPG and 3.5 (not for profit) for my own GM'ing needs.
I will no-doubtably be pestered by my friends to give them a copy of my BattleTECH (A Time of War) RPG module. (Almost nearing completion)

So if I go through the labor of creating a Module/Extension and I have no intention of selling it, but expect to be pestered to "share" it...
What do I do?

Do I need to go to the Publisher and get a formal notice of permission?
If so... how do I word it?

[Trenloe]

Game mechanics cannot be copyrighted, but "Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form."

What this means is that you can make a ruleset that covers the game mechanics only. e.g. the 4E ruleset does not have permission from WotC because it doesn't need permission as no literary, artistic or musical material is included from the 4E game.

Basically, any written text or artwork from the game can't be included in your ruleset, or a library module. if you plan to distribute it - even if you do so for free.

Of course, if the game has an OGL/SRD/Creative Commons agreement then that changes things. But for a game without these you have to stick to the mechanics of the game only.

[Trenloe]

From here: https://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html


Copyright does not protect the idea for a game, its name or title, or the method or methods for playing it. Nor does copyright protect any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in developing, merchandising, or playing a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles. Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form.

[damned]

so - you can make and distribute a ruleset for free providing it has:
* no logo
* no descriptive text copied direct from source
* no images copied direct from source
you can build all the game mechanics and character sheet
you can include your own content/source modules so long as they are your own work and words

and no permission required.

if you got permission you could do whatever the terms of your permission allow - eg you might negotiate to sell a full version (split between you and publisher and smiteworks and possibly ssteam!), to include all or some content, to include all or some logos etc.


So if I go through the labor of creating a Module/Extension and I have no intention of selling it, but expect to be pestered to "share" it...


that is your call - but the short answer is YES! olease :)

[Magnatude]

In the case of Creating a Character in "Battletech A time of War" the character is made up of "Modules" which are like Travellers "Terms" (a section of years described by a background), I guess it would be like a 3.5E "Background Trait" only it has important cosmetic info within it which cannot be rooted out (Erased) because its part of the Battletech story as well as a building block of the character.

No matter how hard I try, I cant pull this info, otherwise the "Module" makes no sense. So does this mean the Story becomes the Mechanics? Therefor becomes???

Example: How do I pull the Copy-written portions off this?

MINOR PERIPHERY MODULE
COST 75 XP
AFFILIATION
In addition to the larger realms, the Periphery includes an assortment
of minor powers. Banded together for mutual protection and trade,
some of these realms—like the Fiefdom of Randis and the Franklin
Fiefs—are as tiny as a single (but well-armed) world, while others—like
the icy mining colonies of the Mica Majority and the democratic realms
of the Niops Association and Rim Collection—encompass a handful of
worlds.

Primary
Language English

Secondary
Language Any
Fixed XPs [Traits] Equipped (–150 XP); [Skills] Perception (+15
XP), Survival/Any (+20 XP)

Sub-Affiliations (Choose one)

Fiefdom of Randis
[Attributes] BOD (+125 XP), EDG (+50 XP); [Traits]
Illiterate (–75 XP), Wealth (–50 XP); [Skills] Martial
Arts (+10 XP), Melee Weapons (+10 XP), Negotiation
(+10 XP), Streetwise/Periphery (+15 XP), Survival/Any
(+20 XP)

Franklin Fiefs
[Attributes] BOD (+150 XP), INT (–100 XP), WIL (+50
XP); [Traits] Equipped (–60 XP), Illiterate (–90 XP),
Toughness (+100 XP); [Skills] Martial Arts (+15 XP),
Medtech/Any (+10 XP); Protocol/Novo Franklin (+10
XP), Streetwise/Periphery (+10 XP), Survival/Any (+10
XP), (+10 XP to any one of the following: Archery,
Melee Weapons or Negotiation)

Mica Majority
[Attributes] BOD (+100 XP), RFL (+100 XP), EDG
(–100 XP); [Traits] Equipped (–25 XP), Toughness
(+100 XP), Wealth (–100 XP); [Skills] Career/Mining
(+10 XP), Language/Japanese (+10 XP), Negotiation
(+10 XP), Survival/Arctic (+10 XP)

Niops Association
[Attributes] INT (+125 XP), WIL (–110 XP); [Traits]
Equipped (+200 XP), Introvert (–125 XP); [Skills]
Interest/Any (+10 XP), Technician/Any (+15 XP)

Rim Collection
[Attributes] CHA (–50 XP), EDG (+100 XP); [Traits]
Fit (+75 XP), Wealth (–50 XP); [Skills] Negotiation
(+15 XP), Small Arms (+5 XP), Choose two: Animal
Handling/Any, Archery, Martial Arts, Melee Weapons,
Streetwise/Rim Collection or Survival/Any (+10 XP)
Flexible XPs +25 XP each to any three Attributes or Traits, or
combination thereof.

Notes: Unless otherwise specified, characters from any of the listed
Minor Periphery realms may not take the following Life Modules:
Preparatory School or Military School (Stage 2); University or Military
Academy (Stage 3); Postgraduate Study (Stage 4).
Characters with the Franklin Fiefs sub-affiliation that do not purchase
the Citizen Trait (reflecting membership in the gentry) may not receive
the Title or Property Trait, and may not undergo any military training other
than Basic Training, Infantry or Cavalry.
Characters from the Mica Majority and Rim Collection sub-affiliations
may not take the Nobility Life Modules in Stage 1 or 2, nor may they hold
titles within their respective realms.


Do I rename everything "Choice A", "Choice B" ?

Characters with the "Choice A" sub-affiliation that do not purchase
the Citizen Trait (reflecting membership in the gentry) may not receive
the Title or Property Trait, and may not undergo any military training other
than Basic Training, Infantry or Cavalry.
Characters from the "Choice B" and "Choice C" sub-affiliations
may not take the Nobility Life Modules in Stage 1 or 2, nor may they hold
titles within their respective realms.

[Trenloe]

Story is not mechanics, the written word is definitely seen as "literary form" and therefore covered by copyright.

You can include purely the mechanics side of the modules but no story, even if it makes no sense without the story.

[damned]

Trenloe - in the following what is your understanding of what is and isnt copyright?


Fiefdom of Randis
[Attributes] BOD (+125 XP), EDG (+50 XP); [Traits]
Illiterate (–75 XP), Wealth (–50 XP); [Skills] Martial
Arts (+10 XP), Melee Weapons (+10 XP), Negotiation
(+10 XP), Streetwise/Periphery (+15 XP), Survival/Any
(+20 XP)

I would assume that Fiefdom of Randis is copyright.
Can attribute names be copyright?
I would assume that descriptions of attributes would be copyright.

[Magnatude]

that is your call - but the short answer is YES! olease :)

So I'll have to send you the re-written version with everything renamed "Choice A", "Choice B"....

After "Choice ZY" (yes there are a lot of them) you'll be breaking out the decoder ring from a cereal box... or wishing for one?

[damned]

So I'll have to send you the re-written version with everything renamed "Choice A", "Choice B"....

After "Choice ZY" (yes there are a lot of them) you'll be breaking out the decoder ring from a cereal box... or wishing for one?

Some things are just not possible...
I also dont/wont play the ruleset - its just good to have these things out there but if its not possible its not possible.
You can always talk to Doug and see if they have spoken with the publishers at all...

[Magnatude]

Yeah I'll do that (Talk to Doug), maybe with all the work I put into it already, A thumbs up from Catalyst(Pub), and some Moon-magic to get the Character sheets 100% functional... we could have a great addition.

[Trenloe]

I would assume that Fiefdom of Randis is copyright.
Yes, that is literary form.

Can attribute names be copyright?
More than likely not as they are part of the game mechanics. But, there could be grey areas depending on how attributes are handled - if a game had lots of skills and one of them was "Knowledge - Fiefdom of Randis" then that would be a very grey area and would be using specific names that are literary form. In this example it would be best to have it in the ruleset/module as "Knowledge - <insert area name here>" and let the players/GM edit it for their game.

I would assume that descriptions of attributes would be copyright.
If copied or derived from the description in the rulebook then yes, it would be copyright protected and you couldn't distribute it. If you re-write the description yourself so that it is completely different from that published in the rulebook (and I mean *completely* different) then that is OK as you are not using the literary form of the copyright material, you are providing your own interpretation of it without plagiarising the copyright material.

[Trenloe]

Example: How do I pull the Copy-written portions off this?
I don't think you can. That is very specific to the setting of the game and is more than just game mechanics, that definitely contains "literary form" and therefore copyright protected material.


So I'll have to send you the re-written version with everything renamed "Choice A", "Choice B"....

After "Choice ZY" (yes there are a lot of them) you'll be breaking out the decoder ring from a cereal box... or wishing for one?
Yeah, if you can't do it logically without breaking copyright then I'm afraid you shouldn't be doing it for anything other than your own private game. As damned says "Some things are just not possible..."

[Magnatude]

Well, I'm just going to use it for my own game for now (almost done the players end) Still have all the weapons and Mechs... tons of books worth... It will be a while yet.

So if there is any Public interest in putting it into FG as official later down the road and they(Catalyst) give the OK, I will have the majority of the work already accomplished. ;)

[Arion]

The easy answer would be to contact the publisher and see. Even if there is no copyrighted material there and you don't strictly need their approval, them saying yes is a polite thing to do. They may even give approval for logos etc to be included. Most publishers will be happy to see something like a FG ruleset or extension as it is an additional selling point for their game.