Content Categories

[Moon Wizard]

I have been thinking about the concept of content grouping within campaign data for a bit now. At this point, content grouping is a GM-only feature known as Categories, and must be enabled by the ruleset.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Campaign_Data#Categories

The main alternative suggested for this feature is to make content grouping like "folders" in your favorite OS. From a rough first take perspective, the idea is that a folders feature would:
* Replace categories
* Be listed in the campaign data lists above individual records
* When searching within list, folder names would be included in the search
* When folder clicked on, a separate window would open showing the folder path of the new window.
* Each module would become a folder, instead of a tab (if it contained the appropriate record type).

This also presents some new UI challenges (how should drag and drop work, multiple windows for each campaign list, how to create links for nested campaign lists, supporting multi-level nesting, etc.). While all these things could be viewed as positive improvements, they would also take away from other items that could be worked on, since this would be a major project.

The main reason I bring this up as a poll as opposed to a wish list item is that one of FG's strengths is in campaign management, and this directly impacts data management for GMs.

Regards,
JPG

[Griogre]

I don't use more than one category in each campaign or module. There are several reasons. The first is if you use them with abandon in your "main" campaign holding the characters and in an adventure module you run out of space for the tabs. The second is that many things I would put on separate tabs I find I put in separate modules so they already group naturally. Third, I've found that good ordering of the lists pretty much negates the need for separate tabs. In very large adventures like Rappan Atuk I found that there weren't enough tabs for the different areas, but if I input things on the list by level and area I could easily set search and "lock-in" a level or areas' worth of encounters and hide the other ones. Finally, I've found it a bit harder/slower to use list search to find something if you have to keep clicking on a bunch of different tabs

https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/Griogre/books2.png

https://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m222/Griogre/books2S.png

Personally I'd rather be able to use "and" or "or" in searching lists rather than new category functionality, ie 02- && Ogre.

[viresanimi]

Just so I understand this.

The proposal is that the campaign starts in a folder, in which you can have files and folders, just like in a filebrowser?

If that is the case I am sort of in two minds about it. Taps functions quite well, but when you make a lot of modules with data (my vampire campaign has 11 taps) to keep order in all your stuff, it gets harder to keep an eye on. The way I do it, is to simply have a single story that has links to what I need to find. Essentially I build up a website of my campaign using links.

So while it works, it may not be the best way to do them. On the other hand, if it takes a lot of time to do - what will lose development time then?

I guess my point is, that I would like to know what other upgrade were on the horizon and then make an informed opinion on what I felt was more valuable for me in the long run. This or something else.


Vires Animi

[Moon Wizard]

We haven't gone through the planning stages for the next version yet, so there's no specific trade off to reference.

I'm constantly gathering information on FG to determine next features to work on. (Forums, wish list voting, market trends, developer improvements, back end vs visible improvements, backward compatibility, maintainability and more.) This poll is more to get a sense of where GMs stand on campaign organization currently, and the most common alternative.

Luckily, most of this is hidden from the general FG user. Maybe a little less so for FG community developers. :)

Cheers ,
JPG

[damned]

How will it impact existing data that is in Categories format?
Will it break all your existing commercial modules for example? Because that brings all sorts of other challenges!

I didnt know about search but I do most of what Griogre and viresanimi do. I try and build the next "adventure" in a separate campaign and export/import so everything for that adventure is in a new set of tabs and I number everything to keep them in the order I want and I have an Introduction story which links to everything else - although sometimes I have been skipping that and just using Shortcut Pins...

[JohnD]

I take the same approach as damned.

[Callum]

I use several category tabs for each data area in my "adventure" modules - a typical example is shown below.

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For Story, I create a green tab to hold the entries for each named section in the main tab - so there'd be a green tab named "2: Island of Storms" that has the Story entries for M1 to M6 stored in it.

Images & Maps are sorted by type - in the example: NPC portraits, documents, DM maps, player maps.

NPCs are sorted into two types - named NPCs, and variant (or new) monsters.

Although the list of tabs can occasionally get a bit long in the Story area, I don't find this to be a problem, as the window is resizeable. I'm very happy with this system, and don't feel the need to introduce folders.

I also use pins on maps - so the players' Shore map would also have pin links to the M1 to M6 Story entries.

[dr_venture]

I'm still not sure I understand what you're describing, Moon. Where would the folders reside in the UI - inside the content windows along with the current content links? Would the folders be listed alphabetically, or always at the top? Also, would the folders allow you to organize the content of your FG "documents" without modules being involved at all? For instance, could I organize a typical module's Story entries so that I had only the overview entries on the top level, and all of the room descriptions inside a folder (as thise are usually only opened for viewing by clicking on a pin on a map)?

If so, I REALLY, REALLY LIKE IT! That would make organizing data far more intuitive, and would declutter the bottom of the FG windows from having a whole bunch of colored tabs that aren't readily identifiable without mousing over each one. Since I like to modularize as much of my content as possible, it seems like having a number of modules open at once would be a simpler prospect with folders instead of tabs.

I'll vote in teh poll when I'm sure of what I'm voting for :)

[dr_venture]

Moon, I suspect that, if folders work like I described above, having a mockup graphic at the top of this thread might affect the results of the poll *a lot*. One of FG's "elephant in the room" shortcomings is the ease of content management, especially for new users. As long as you're comfortable working with longs lists of files, it's functional and simple. The tab thing is certainly workable, but if I understand the folder concept you proposed, folders seem like a brilliant way to allow a much greater ease of organizing info in a fairly complex way (if the user chooses to) without having a window that looks like the Story window in Callum's example above (i.e., a ton of identical-looking tabs until you mouse over them).

[Moon Wizard]

Yes, the folders would appear inline with records at the same nesting level. It definitely adds more organization options, since it is nested.

However, complexity-wise, you just end up with a different kind of complexity (similar to finding a specific windows file when looking at C drive).

I guess it's more of a trade-off between a tabbed vs folder interface.

As I mentioned previously, it's a rather large project, especially considering backward compatibility for all existing campaigns, modules and store items.

It would require months of dev and testing.

I just wanted to gather some community thoughts on the subject before next round of product planning.

Regards,
JPG

[GunnarGreybeard]

I think I would prefer the color tabs but maybe I'm just used to them now. What about just adding more tab color/graphics to the existing ones for those who use more than most and might need the extra variety to choose from. They would still have wide windows but the extra colors may offset the need for multiple same color tabs. Just my 2 Pfennigs.

[damned]

As I mentioned previously, it's a rather large project, especially considering backward compatibility for all existing campaigns, modules and store items.

It would require months of dev and testing.

for me I would think that this says it all...

[Trenloe]

for me I would think that this says it all...
Yup.

[JohnD]

Months of work and then you'll find find a different segment of the community doesn't like the new way.

[dr_venture]

Well, I know enough to vote now. I definitely love the idea of folders, in that I get tired of having to mouse over everything to tell what the heck I'm looking at, and it eliminates the issue of having too many tabs across the bottom of a window (I like to really segment mile content, and I've already run into this). But that said, there are bigger fish to fry in FG... for me #1 of the top of my head is the bandwidth usage limitations, as that's the whole usability of the program. The long dev time seals the deal for me: I'd rather you work on more pressing items, Moon. Thanks for airing the issue, tho.

[Moon Wizard]

Closing the poll now. I have the gist of the community response.

Thanks,
JPG