How do I unset the delete confirm flag?

[HoloGnome]

See attached image. If you accidentally rotate the delete flag to horizontal delete-confirm mode, how do you reset it back to normal mode again. I haven't been able to find a way - left click, right click, control key modifiers, close window - nothing works - only options seems to be to complete the delete process or leave it rotated. It should cntrl-click unrotate or automatically revert when the context changes (window close, tab change, etc.). In addition, a cancel delete menu item would be nice.

[JohnD]

I don't think that there is a way, but I'm no guru.

[Moon Wizard]

If you turn off edit mode, it resets all the delete buttons.

JPG

[HoloGnome]

Moon Wizard - sorry - but that doesn't work. :) Bug?

Also - attachment is still pending approval.

[HoloGnome]

delete this - sorry - double-posted...

[Moon Wizard]

Which ruleset are you using? And which window are you looking at when you see the problem?

Regards,
JPG

[HoloGnome]

Hi MW - 3.5E ruleset - all windows, from what I can tell - checked Notes, Story, various ones on character sheet.

I would suggest adding something like Ctrl+Click to untoggle the delete flag. Having to exit edit mode and then go back into edit mode is a context change for the user, sets lists to default scroll pos. etc. However, while Edit Exit is obviously needed as a global untoggle, there also needs to be a specific untoggle while working on lists of content.

[Moon Wizard]

Thanks for the suggestion. In general, I dislike hidden key combinations as a solution to embedding functionality.

The edit/add/delete buttons are actually relatively new to make it easier for the average user to manage records. All the features were buried in the right click radial menus in the last version.

It appears that the edit toggle to reset the delete buttons is in the next release, v3.0.4, currently in beta testing. See the Lab forum for more details on the beta test.

JPG

[HoloGnome]

Haha! I understand. But...welllll...you guys better start over then, because Fantasy Grounds is awash in a sea of embedded key/mouse functionality for all kinds of things. :D Targeting, crit rolls, opportunity rolls, token resizing or not resizing and facing instead, etc. Adding a mod key + click to untoggle makes perfect sense, or you could support control-z for undo, but in the latter case, the targeted context gets lost very quickly. Mod key + click is probably the right choice + a top-level radial menu command and global untoggle on end edit or window close. Failing that, you could just get rid of them altogether and put a red X there instead with a delete/confirm dialog, which is standard user interface, perhaps with a control+click to skip the confirm dialog and just delete in 1 click.

Resetting the flags when you exit edit mode as the only way to change them is not the right choice for active editing, since it changes the context (which also happens when editing various lists - weapons, inventory, etc. just trying to do basic editing - extremely frustrating UI - needs to be fixed).

But, glad to know this issue is going to be addressed in 3.0.4. I will look for the thread - thanks!

[Moon Wizard]

The other standard alternatives to delete confirmation are pop-up windows and recycle bins. Pop-up windows are a last ditch UI choice in my mind, especially for something like this. As for recycle bin, that's a another very large project.

Yes, FG is awash in control key modifiers. I have been systemically adding alternate methods to bypass modifier keys by using radial menus or controls on the screen, or removing the necessity for them.

Cheers,
JPG

[HoloGnome]

Sounds good. Be careful with the opposite problem of burying functionality in radial menus. In some cases a mod key is actually much easier to use. One thing that would help with mod keys is context-sensitive help to show them, but we've already scorched that rabbit. :)

[Trenloe]

Be careful with the opposite problem of burying functionality in radial menus. In some cases a mod key is actually much easier to use. One thing that would help with mod keys is context-sensitive help to show them, but we've already scorched that rabbit. :)
Yes a mod key would be easier to use, but people have to know about the keys! And it has been proven time and time again on these forums that people don't read the user guides, or only skim through them and miss a lot of information. A radial menu option is at least there if people right click and can see it as an option without having to refer to the user guide for "buried ... functions" (yes, that is a quote from one of your posts). ;)

[Moon Wizard]

Two different user models supported: the explorers and the readers. ;)

JPG

[HoloGnome]

Trenloe - haha! :D True - and that is where context-sensitive help would come in. Users could hover over a feature in help mode and see what it supports, etc. Maybe it's the hybrid execution of "exploring and reading" as MW says and is mitigated by overall ease-of-use, where the easiest features need no additional explanation. [You see a rabbit limping along with burned fur, squeaking "I'm feeling bet-terrr...I don't want to go on the cart..." ]

Admittedly, the /save one caught me off guard - that is a great candidate for the radial menu. And, I am not rabidly (rabbitly?) against mod keys - every app has them and I really like them for speed as long as they are well-documented and intuitive - photoshop, ms office, CAD/EDA software, gaming software, even facebook has them (shift+return for newlines in posts), etc.

I see FG2 as an RPG IDE on the adventure engineering side, albeit without full map creation tools. I suppose you could also call it "Visual XML", given the file storage archetype. It's OK if it has some learning curve, as long as the learning curve is really necessary. Some of it seems to be the result of additive, organic growth, which is a good problem to have - it means you're growing and features have morphed and expanded over time - as long as you can look at those features and bring them into full focus from an ease-of-use/intuitive design standpoint.

Anyway - I love the RPG IDE-esque potential and openness of FG2, and I think some of my new user frustration is on the engagement side of wanting more from FG2 - both in terms of features and ease-of-use, if that makes sense. :) Thanks for being open to my feedback - I appreciate it and hope the comments are useful.

[HoloGnome]

3.0.4 Regression: Fixed/Verified - you can now unset the delete flag be exiting edit mode - works in Notes and on character sheets. In the NPC window, the delete flags are also set when you close the window. Closing and opening the Notes and Character sheet does not reset them, you must use the edit toggle.