Something happened (with port forwarding) I need some input/Help

[Magnatude]

Hey guys...

I was about to host my usual Friday night game when something BAD happened.

I'm using my old WinXP desktop, NO FIREWALL.
Using Portforward.com's PFConfig... been using this for years.

I suddenly cant get Fantasy Grounds to get through 1802.
I didn't change anything since my last sessions which were fine, no connection problems.

I've rebooted, re-installed Fantasy Grounds from scratch, rebooted, rant PFConfig endless times, rebooted...

Nothing.

I still have my Win7 Laptop with FG, and that still works fine, connects with the test (going through the same router)


So, I'm totally perplexed, did something happen with router protocols where WinXP is suddenly unable to function with routers???

Yeah its old as an OS, but this machine has a Thousand+ Dollars of 3D Modeling/Rendering software that I DONT want to spend $$$$$$ more to upgrade, so I run my older softwares on this.

Anybody have any ideas?
I'm able to send emails, use internet still on this thing (I'm typing on it) What could be blocking the ports???
Reboot the Router? (Telus Actiontec V1000H)?

[Trenloe]

Do you have static port forwarding set for your Win 7 PC or do you rely on UPnP automatically setting the port in the router?

If you have static routing set you'll need to change it to point to your Win XP machine.

If you are using UPnP make sure you don't have a campaign loaded on your Win 7 PC as this will be setting the port forwarding for that PC.

It might be worth rebooting your router if you're using UPnP and it is not working.

[Magnatude]

I believe UPnP is doing for me with the laptop, its all wireless.

My Desktop uses a lan connect to it. and yes, portforward is set for just this desktop... I have a group of games that I've created forwarding long ago... including Arma2 (you probably see me in Steam going back and forth)
Now, Arma2 NEEDs this portforwarding, and it is working, I'm able to play Arma2 and connect to a multiplayer server... this would not happen if my PFConfig was not working. (which makes this confusing) I enter the backdoor to my router and everything is set up for Fantasygrounds for my Desktop, I also double checked my laptop as well... (shruggs)
I don't know how it can suddenly change from one day to the next, lol...

Also yes I disconnected the laptop from the router/wireless as well to ensure... I'm also running Full on the laptop and Ultimate on the Desktop. (different SN's)

(I'll reboot the router after the wife gets back home, dont want to disconnect any of her TV recordings by accident)

[Trenloe]

My Desktop uses a lan connect to it. and yes, portforward is set for just this desktop...
If your Win 7 PC test works then this indicates that port forwarding is not specifically set up for your desktop anyomore, or is being overridden by UPnP.

I'd make sure your Win 7 PC is not running a Fantasy Grounds campaign and then try setting your port forwarding for your desktop again, make sure the setting is applied/save in the router config.

[Qai]

I'm a bit tired and it's late here so I apologize for not reading the walls of text. Just off the top of my head from a few keywords I picked up quickly scanning the text, it sounds like you might have static port forwarding set up in your router that routes your WAN to an exact IP on your network and when you connect one of your devices then it gets assigned that IP address on the LAN while the other computer gets a different address that is being blocked by the router. Since you say that you didn't change anything, this would be the first thing I would check, i.e., how does WAN route to LAN statically if you are not using UPnP. For example, say you have 4 wired ports on the back of the router. Let's say that these four ports route as follows from WAN: 192.168.0.11, 192.168.0.12, 192.168.0.13, and 192.168.0.14. Now, it's possible that all wireless devices get assigned 192.168.0.15 and higher. Your router might be set to port-forward to a particular address (say, 192.168.0.11) and only that IP address will open the ports, while all other addresses will remain blocked. The above numbers are arbitrary and just used for illustrative purposes to convey the general idea.

[Magnatude]

Yeah, I understand... I know I have to detach my laptop from wireless to ensure the 1802 port is clear. I've encountered that problem before, a while back when I first got my laptop and the port would get blocked if I used my laptop and didnt re-run PFConfig for my Desktop to re-open everything.

Here are some screenshots, my Desktop is Magnatude3D, and my Laptop is shown here with their lan IP's
6536

My PFConfig loaded:
6537

And showing that my FG 1802 is assigned to Magnatude3D within my router settings:
6538

Hopefully you guys might see something I'm missing... yeah its late, I'm fine with some Q&A tomorrow ;)

And thanks guys for trying to help... maybe I'm just not seeing ??? Heh

[Trenloe]

Looks OK to me.

In your router can you see the current UPnP assignments? It might be that there is your laptop stuck in there.

[Qai]

Hmmm, based on those screenshots, your router seems to be forwarding everything correctly to 192.168.1.79, which is magnatude3d. So all those ports should be opening on that computer. So, it appears like port forwarding is not the issue. Your laptop might be getting through, nonetheless, because of UPnP, which automatically handles all the port forwarding.

Uhhh... hang on. I just noticed that at the bottom of your PFConfig window the following address: 192.168.1.254. Where is that coming from and what is that associated with?

[Magnatude]

I believe that is my actual Router the Actiontec itself.


are all screenshots from my Desktop using PFConfig and direct into the Router address via firefox.



Just did another check...
Turned off the laptop (shutdown)
Rebooted the Desktop

Re-initiated the PFConfic...
Then started Fantasy Grounds... Tested... FAILED.

I'm at a loss. Maybe something will click tomorrow.

[damned]

also i think your FW rules are a bit off... just because FG listens on 1802 it doesnt mean that the remote host uses 1802 as its source port - in fact its far more likely that the source port is a number between 1024 and 65535 and each conversation increments that port so the START/END remote port *might* be supposed to look like: 1024-65535
You also only need TCP1802 - there is no UDP happening.

[Trenloe]

Damned might be onto something there - can you manually create the port forwarding with all port ranges for the remote ports?

Also, can you see in your router the currently active UPnP assignments?

[Qai]

Try going into your router settings and select the profile to be DMZ (demilitarized zone). This opens ALL ports and disables safeguards - it provides your computer a direct link to the outside world. Before you do this, close every single internet application and DO NOT use your computer to do ANYTHING on the internet except to test FG. Even if FG works in this situation, you will not stay in DMZ. This is just a fast and cutthroat way to see if port forwarding is the problem.

If things work during DMZ, then we have to narrow down the particular settings when DMZ is off, but at least you will know if it is related to ports. If it still doesn't work when DMZ is on, then the problem is elsewhere. The only things that I can think of that would produce connectivity issues are 1) ports, 2) firewalls, and/or 3) network adapters in your OS (for example, TCP/IP).

[damned]

also - have you tested your W7 computer can connect to the XP computer on the LAN address? 192.168.1.79
If this cant connect then there is an issue on XP computer.
If this can then issue is either with Router or with UPNP over-riding the static designations.

You really need to reboot the router.

[Magnatude]

I tested with DMZ enabled on my router to my Magnatude3D computer...
Fantasy Grounds test was still a FAIL...

??? I dunno...

I'll check the upnp tomorrow I just thought I'd do the quick DMZ test before hitting the hay. Thanks guys.

And yes, I can still connect to my Desktop comp from my laptop, I usually do that for transferring files to/from one of my Desktop Hard Disks set on sharing.

[Trenloe]

I'll check the upnp tomorrow I just thought I'd do the quick DMZ test before hitting the hay. Thanks guys.
Sounds like you need to test connecting on your LAN from one PC to the other as damned suggested.

[Magnatude]

yes, did, sorry edited as you posted , lol

[Trenloe]

And yes, I can still connect to my Desktop comp from my laptop, I usually do that for transferring files to/from one of my Desktop Hard Disks set on sharing.
The (implied) suggestion was to connect Fantasy Grounds between the two PCs - with the XP machine as the GM.

[Magnatude]

Ah... ok, and ok this is what happened doing that.

1 Desktop as HOST to a game as GM client.

2 Tried connecting laptop via alias... FAILED

3 Tried then connecting via LAN IP, SUCCESS

So then I thought well maybe refresh the alias on the Desktop/GM. (Test... FAILED)
Tried connecting laptop via new alias... FAILED

Still can connect via Lan IP.

[Trenloe]

OK cool - so that does look like it is the router. Give it a reboot and check the stuff we mentioned above (active UPnP and remote ports).

[damned]

Many routers/firewalls wont let you connect from inside to a service mapped to the outside interface. They see it as a spoof attack. Thats why your alias thing wont work from your Win7 machine. The issue is on the Router - reboot with your Win7 laptop off and do the test connect. Then try again with your Win7 laptop on.

[Magnatude]

K. will let you know in the morning :) Thanks will try this.

[Magnatude]

Thanks guys!
Yes rebooting the router worked.

There was a power outage over-night a couple days ago, and that might have caused a gremlin in the system... (shrugs)

Thanks for all your ideas and help... cookies for all of yous.

[Qai]

Glad it worked!

[Magnatude]

Well, back to square one again... worked one day and back to the same problem the next,
I did turn on FG on the laptop, didn't host a session but it seemed to have overtaken the port again.

Also one of my players has the same sort of setup Laptop(wireless) and Desktop(Lan hardwire) and its now doing the same. His Desktop is win7 as well as the Laptop (my desktop is XP). Even DMZ doesnt work. Whatever this is, it should be sold as fantastic port blocking Security!!!

I really don't want to have to reboot my router every time I want to run a game, but it looks like I have to now.

Was there something changed in FG in an update that relates to the way ports are handled?
Because Both me and my Friend having the same prob, and we had never, in the last 3-4 years ever had a problem like this ever. (Same setup)

We both knew if you ran Laptop it would overtake the port and we knew rerunning the port configs would fix it to run Desktop again... but now once you run Laptop, you cant get the Desktops to work (even with the ports showing they are assigned properly) unless we reboot the router.

I have several ports configed for several games, and THEY still work even when running the same game on both machines, FG is the only one that gets stuck. weird.

This only effects us hosting as GM, we can still connect as "players"

[Trenloe]

Have you looked in your router configuration to see if there is a UPnP entry that is appearing?

Do you have multiple network interfaces on your computer that are enabled?

[Magnatude]

UPNP is enabled, should I turn that off entirely? (we have a lot of stuff connecting to our router... 3 phones, 3 Laptops, 1 Desktop, TV/Wii/Home-Phones...

I'm looking for all the UPNP entries, must be on a tab I cant find, I'll do a deeper look later today and report back.


Reporting back... I have no access from my router to look at UPNP... just an on/off switch.

I'm just going to do the reboot whenever I run FG... my friend tried a reboot on his router and it didn't work for him, and he's an actual Networking specialist and this is making him scratch his head.

Yes, I have tried enforcing a "network device" as well designating my Desktop Lan IP and 1802 as the ports... that did not work. I don't have any other devices on that list.

[Moon Wizard]

Nothing has changed with regards to UPnP or the networking interface for over a year.

Regards,
JPG

[Magnatude]

Hmm... maybe its a windows update on my Laptop??? I dunno...
Oh well if I need to reboot the router all the time now, I guess that has to be.

[Trenloe]

Check that Fantasy Grounds is reporting the internal IP address as the actual IP address you have set in port forwarding.

[damned]

Magnatude - turn off UPNP. UPNP is only needed to support incoming connections. When your phone/laptop/tablet/tv/console/fridge etc requests data the router knows to allow the responses in. Incoming data that needs to be specifically allowed or allowed via UPNP is for things like a server - be it a web/email or Games server. I would be using Static PAT/NAT or UPnP - not both as its not working for you. You dont actually have to host a session to trigger UPnP - you just need to launch the App in Server mode - so if you Load Campaign or Create New Campaign on a different system that will trigger UPnP. Should UPnP override static entries? Not to my way of thinking but that is what appears to be happening so I would try and go with one or the other.

or...

Another thought - UPnP might be getting priority because it more closely matches the actual traffic profile than your static rules? Maybe your static rules are not working and it was only ever UPnP that was causing it to work - see my earlier response about remote ports (1024-65535)... Backup your config, turn off DMZ, turn off or delete all your rules (screen shot them too) and just test with UPnP. Now the other thing with this method is if you fire up a GM session on 2 different computers (even if no one is connected to either session) how can the router *know* which one to forward Incoming traffic to? So if you are opening GM sessions on more than one computer anywhere near game time you are probably setting yourself up for issues...

[Magnatude]

K, Damned, I'll try this later today.