Any interest in a Summon Monster/Nature Ally module?

[hangarflying]

Just checking the inter-tubes out there to see if there would be any interest in a module that has all of the Augmented/non-Augmented Summon Monster creatures with the appropriate Celestial/Fiendish template applied that also includes Augmented/non-Augmented Summon Natures Ally creatures?

[Trenloe]

How similar would this be to the modules linked in the modules sticky thread: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?16074-List-of-Modules&p=120187&viewfull=1#post120187 ??

[hangarflying]

Quite different actually. First, SM and SNA would be contained within one mod. Second, there would essentially be six lists:

Celestial SM
Fiendish SM
Augmented Celestial SM
Augmented Fiendish SM
SNA
Augmented SNA

The templates and the Augment Summoning feat would already be included so all you would have to do is drag and drop and you're ready to go. Unless you can just put "Celestial" or "Fiendish" somewhere and it automatically adds that stuff in.

[Phystus]

You mean like this?

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/store/product.xcp?id=SULOGL1000FG2


~P

[hangarflying]

Yeah, but for Pathfinder.

[Trenloe]

I'm sure a Pathfinder version would be very useful to the community. :)

[hangarflying]

Then I shall sally forth! I'll get back to you in a few days to ask: "ok, they're in FG, now what do I do"? :D

[Carthar]

Pathfinder version. Yes I would use that.

[Blackfoot]

If you want to do this work.. I have probably half of it done already. It would be a relatively straight forward job to add the augmented monsters and combine the modules that I've already put together.
If I were you, I'd use those as a start. The data is all taken from the Pathfinder PRD so it is accurate.

[Velocinox]

It sure wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings if you just happened to include a way to build an eidolon in there somewhere. An empty entry for the base forms that you could drag and drop the various evolutions into would be extremely helpful.

I realize this is a bit larger scope than a library of summoned NPCs, but it seems like an appropriate place to have it.

[Blackfoot]

It sure wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings if you just happened to include a way to build an eidolon in there somewhere. An empty entry for the base forms that you could drag and drop the various evolutions into would be extremely helpful.

I realize this is a bit larger scope than a library of summoned NPCs, but it seems like an appropriate place to have it.
Eidolons are a completely different animal (so to speak) and really are best done as a second PC. (IMO)

[Trenloe]

It sure wouldn't hurt anyone's feelings if you just happened to include a way to build an eidolon in there somewhere. An empty entry for the base forms that you could drag and drop the various evolutions into would be extremely helpful.

I realize this is a bit larger scope than a library of summoned NPCs, but it seems like an appropriate place to have it.
An Eidolon should really be handled as another PC, not an NPC - so that the player can have full control over it, switch between their summoner and the eidolon at will, level up the eidolon as appropriate. Using an NPC entry would be too restrictive.

EDIT: In short - I agree with ninja Blackfoot. :bandit:

[Velocinox]

I suppose I'm of an entirely opposite opinion. I think all of the summons should be treated as PCs and be given full usage while being used by a player.

[Trenloe]

I suppose I'm of an entirely opposite opinion. I think all of the summons should be treated as PCs and be given full usage while being used by a player.
To be honest, with FG 3.0 you can pretty much do this now - the only thing the player can't do is modify the summoned creature. It would be nice for the player to be able to modify the NPC record of a summoned creature if needed, but have a full blown PC sheet for those 5 eagles I've just summoned and cannot just double-click on the full attack to do claw-claw-bite in one action? Oooohhh, no thanks - keep them as non-editable NPC records for me please! ;)

[Blackfoot]

I suppose I'm of an entirely opposite opinion. I think all of the summons should be treated as PCs and be given full usage while being used by a player.
Are you taking your meds.. or perhaps someone elses? :D

[Mgrancey]

Umm, not sure how complete it is but there are Modules with the Summons, for Pathfinder, I can tell you that I have yet to see anything with traps, started on that but there are alot of traps on PFSRD so I haven't completed it yet.

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?16074-List-of-Modules&p=150419&viewfull=1#post150419

Ah just saw blackfoots post.

[Blackfoot]

Seriously though, as far as 'Augmented Summons' goes.. this is very easily accomplished with an adjustment to the Monster's HP and an Effect.
(which is why I didn't bother to add it to the modules)
The Fiendish and Celestial templates are a bit more complex but really are mostly just another effect.
The smite good/evil item again you may as well build onto your character sheet and then drop it onto the monster once summoned and it begins smiting.
Effects:
Augmented Summons; STR:4 enhancement; CON:4 enhancement
Celestial;RESIST:<varies depending on HD.. see table>;DR:<varies> evil
Fiendish;RESIST:<same...>;DR:<varies> good
Smite;ATK:<CHA>;DMG:<CHA>
It's important that the Smite Effect is targeted specifically against the Smite target, otherwise this effect would work against everyone.

[Callum]

To be honest, with FG 3.0 you can pretty much do this now - the only thing the player can't do is modify the summoned creature. It would be nice for the player to be able to modify the NPC record of a summoned creature if needed, but have a full blown PC sheet for those 5 eagles I've just summoned and cannot just double-click on the full attack to do claw-claw-bite in one action? Oooohhh, no thanks - keep them as non-editable NPC records for me please! ;)
The only problem with players using NPC records for this is that the NPC record is not linked to the Combat Tracker - so targeting doesn't work, and so on.

[Trenloe]

The only problem with players using NPC records for this is that the NPC record is not linked to the Combat Tracker - so targeting doesn't work, and so on.
If the GM puts the NPCs on the combat tracker first and then shares the links to the NPCs with the player (drags the link to one of the player's PC portraits) then the player can target, roll attacks and damage, etc..

EDIT: I forgot to say that the GM has to make the NPC a "friendly" ally on the combat tracker (green smiley face icon) to allow the player to target.

[Callum]

If the GM puts the NPCs on the combat tracker first and then shares the links to the NPCs with the player (drags the link to one of the player's PC portraits) then the player can target, roll attacks and damage, etc..

EDIT: I forgot to say that the GM has to make the NPC a "friendly" ally on the combat tracker (green smiley face icon) to allow the player to target.

Strange...I thought that was exactly what I'd done. I'll give it another whirl.

What happens if the NPC is removed from the combat tracker and then later re-added? The player will have an "instance" of the NPC in his/her NPCs area, right? Will re-sharing the link re-synch it with the combat tracker?

[Trenloe]

What happens if the NPC is removed from the combat tracker and then later re-added? The player will have an "instance" of the NPC in his/her NPCs area, right? Will re-sharing the link re-synch it with the combat tracker?
The player will not have an instance of the NPC in their NPC list. With FG 3.0 NPC records in the combat tracker are copies of the source record (before FG 3.0 they were links to the source record) and reside 100% within the combat tracker.

If the record is removed from the combat tracker while the player still has the NPC record open the NPC window will close on the player side as the shared record no longer exists.

If the player closes the shared record window they can re open it by double clicking on the token on the map.

So, to summarise the steps.

GM activities:

Adds NPCs to combat tracker. Assigns tokens if needed.
Changes NPC ally status to "friendly" (changes red angry face to green smiley face). (This can be done before or after sharing the record with the player).
Drags NPC tokens to map. (This can be done before or after sharing the record with the player).
Share the NPC with the player by dragging NPC record link from the Combat Tracker to player PC portrait. The NPC record window will open on the GM and Player side.
If the GM closes this window the player window will close as well - but the player can re-open the window by double clicking on the token on the map.

Player activities:

When the shared NPC window appears, they can close it if they wish. To re-open the window the player must double-click on the NPC token on the map.
When running the NPC, left-click the NPC token on the map to select it and CTRL+left-click on other tokens to target them with the NPC record associated with the token.
Double-click attack/damage entries in the shared NPC sheet to roll against the targeted creature/s.

[Callum]

That's fantastic, Trenloe - thanks so much!

I have one final question. If the GM shares an NPC with a player without dragging it to the combat tracker first, will that give the player a persistent instance of the NPC? If so, how will that interact with a combat tracker version of the same NPC?

[Trenloe]

I have one final question. If the GM shares an NPC with a player without dragging it to the combat tracker first, will that give the player a persistent instance of the NPC? If so, how will that interact with a combat tracker version of the same NPC?
Yes, the GM sharing an NPC record from their NPC list would give the player a persistent NPC record in the player NPC list. This record would not interact with NPCs created in the combat tracker from the same NPC record in any way as the NPC records in the combat tracker are completely separate copies of the NPC.

[Blackfoot]

In 3.0, an NPC that has been shared from the Tracker (and set to friendly) can be double clicked on by the player to reopen it's unique sheet.

Oh.. also. You 'can' use critters directly from the module as a player by dragging their damage and whatnots directly to the tracker or maps.. but the shared method is better.

Also... I don't believe the GM needs to keep a copy open. If he closes it, it might close the NPC on the player side, but they can reopen it by the method above.

[Trenloe]

In 3.0, an NPC that has been shared from the Tracker (and set to friendly) can be double clicked on by the player to reopen it's unique sheet.

Oh.. also. You 'can' use critters directly from the module as a player by dragging their damage and whatnots directly to the tracker or maps.. but the shared method is better.

Also... I don't believe the GM needs to keep a copy open. If he closes it, it might close the NPC on the player side, but they can reopen it by the method above.
Ah, so it is double-click on the token on the map, not the NPC entry in the CT. Cool - that makes it much easier and removes the need for the GM to keep the sheet open/minimised or the player to do the same. Cool - I'll update my steps... Thanks. :)

[Callum]

You 'can' use critters directly from the module as a player by dragging their damage and whatnots directly to the tracker or maps.. but the shared method is better.
Yes, this is the method we've been using, because I thought the other one didn't work. I'm very happy to find out that it does! :)

[Velocinox]

The player will not have an instance of the NPC in their NPC list. With FG 3.0 NPC records in the combat tracker are copies of the source record (before FG 3.0 they were links to the source record) and reside 100% within the combat tracker.

This was the functionality I was looking for when I mentioned making the NPCs more like PCs. When the reaction was 'A whole PC character sheet? And the meds comment, I just figured I'd avoid any further conversation on the topic.

[Blackfoot]

Hee hee.. your comment did beg a bit of jibing.. :D