Multi-targeting Question

[Nickademus]

I'm wondering if there is a functionality of FG that I don't know about. In PF and D&D there are several spell and effects that deal half damage or have an alternate effect on a successful save. Not sure if this is a CoreRPG thing or just in the other rulesets but the way I understand it, in FG there is an option to remove targeting to the targets that pass a save. This allows the aggressor to apply full damage/effect to those that failed the save. But from there I see no easy way to apply the half damage or alternative effect. Either the aggressor has to manually apply the damage/effect to those that are not targeted or he/she has to untarget those that failed their save and target those that failed, then apply the alternative effect. Half damage is even more difficult as I don't see an easy way to apply half the roll to multiple targets at once.

Is there something a player/GM can do in this situation that I'm unaware of?

[Callum]

No, there's no cunning way to do this that I'm aware of - you're on your own in terms of dealing with the targets who have made their saves.

[Nickademus]

Hmm...

[Griogre]

The easiest way I'm aware of is to just do the full damage on the still selected targets and then half the damage in the chat window and drag and drop it on the half damage targets. An automated system in 4E should be possible since all the rolls happen at once. In a system where you have to wait for the individual saves it's likely it would take more time to retarget the missed saves and do something rather than just drag and dropping the half damage. Now if you had auto-saves when the spell is cast it would be different, but I've found most players like to roll their own saves.

[Nickademus]

In PF/3.5e the spells with a cast action have auto-saves. This is what is used to remove the targeting of those that pass the save.

[Callum]

I think the current set-up is just a little fillip that's designed to give you a hand. As there are so many different possible outcomes from a successful save, as well as a failed save, it's difficult to offer programmatic solutions that would cover them all. Having said that, having a quick way to select all the targets that made their saves, and also to apply half damage to them, would definitely be handy - it would just have to be optional, rather than automatic.

[Trenloe]

In PF/3.5e the spells with a cast action have auto-saves. This is what is used to remove the targeting of those that pass the save.
Yep, if the auto save functionality is enabled. As Griogre mentions above, some players don't like the system rolling their saves for them so this feature is sometimes disabled. A way of disabling auto saves for the PCs but keeping it for the NPCs might be nice so the GM can save a bit of work when the players target NPCs. Also, as Callum mentions below, a quick way of toggling to those that made the auto save would also be nice. Of course this might still need GM intervention, e.g. For reflex saves and targets with evasion.

[Moon Wizard]

I've wanted to implement something like this for some time, and it's coming up again in the 5E ruleset.

I think the challenge, as you guys have been talking about, is around figuring out a step-by-step process that makes sense for all spells. Also, it should be optional, especially for PC rolls. The other wrench is that some spells also require an attack roll (which also adds in miss chance rolling).

So, let's brainstorm. What are the steps that make sense for a system that allows a spell to be cast at a group, have saves be rolled, and the next damage roll applied as critical, regular or half (depending on attack roll, save, etc.)? I haven't come up with a good solution yet, that is true to the rules.

Regards,
JPG

[Nickademus]

I have an idea that I plan to try for my games. I'd have to look at the code that's there before it became more than an idea.

[Nickademus]

Here's my idea, but I'm having difficulty finding the places in the ruleset to add the changes (if they are even there). This is assuming 3.5e since that's where the Remove on Miss option is but the logic I assume could be applied to other rulesets.

Secondary Targeting
To accommodate this option a couple UI components will be added. First, this option will replace the Remove on Miss option since it does this anyway. Second, the Modifier Window will have a third section called Secondary Targeting with two buttons: 'Half Dmg' and 'Remove'. Third, a new type of targeting line will be added to FG that is half transparent. And last, a radial icon will be added to a token that is targeted to switch it to a secondary target and back to a primary target.

Scenario 1: Spell, save for different action or no action (default behavior)

The attacker targets multiple targets manually or with the map buttons.
The attacker clicks the cast button on the spell to trigger the saving throws.
FG clears all tables and variables used in secondary targeting.
FG rolls all saves and adds targets that successfully save to a table on the TargetingManager called secondary_targets with the attacker as the key to the table value.
FG changes the targeting line to the secondary targets to the half-transparent line.
FG removes the secondary targets from the attacker's target list.
The attacker uses primary spell action (damage, healing, or applying an effect).
FG applies action to all primary targets (the only ones left in the target list for the attacker).
FG removes all primary targets and targets all secondary targets
The attacker uses successful save action (damage, healing, or applying an effect) on secondary targets.
The attacker applies any additional actions (damage, healing, effects) to secondary targets if applicable.
The attacker removes all targets manually or with the map button if done reeking havoc.


Scenario 2: Damaging Spell, save for half damage

The attacker targets multiple targets manually or with the map buttons.
The attacker clicks the cast button on the spell to trigger the saving throws.
FG clears all tables and variables used in secondary targeting.
FG rolls all saves and adds targets that successfully save to a table on the TargetingManager called secondary_targets with the attacker as the key to the table value.
FG changes the targeting line to the secondary targets to the half-transparent line.
FG removes the secondary targets from the attacker's target list.
The attacker toggles on the Half Dmg button in the Secondary Targeting section of the Modifier Window.
The GM removes any creature with evasion that passed the save.
The GM uses the radial menu to switch any creature with improved evasion that failed the save to secondary targets.
The attacker rolls damage.
FG applies full damage to all primary targets (the only ones left in the target list for the attacker).
FG applies half the damage to all creatures in the the secondary_targets table value with the attacker as the key.
FG removes all primary targets and targets all secondary targets
The attacker applies any additional actions (damage, healing, effects) to secondary targets if applicable.
The attacker removes all targets manually or with the map button if done reeking havoc.


Scenario 3: Spell, multiple actions on failed save; save for no action

The attacker targets multiple targets manually or with the map buttons.
The attacker toggles on the Remove button in the Secondary Targeting section of the Modifier Window.
The attacker clicks the cast button on the spell to trigger the saving throws.
FG clears all tables and variables used in secondary targeting.
FG rolls all saves and removes all targets that successfully save from the attacker's target list.
The attacker uses primary spell action (damage, healing, or applying an effect).
FG applies action to all primary targets (the only ones left in the target list for the attacker).
The attacker applies all additional actions to targets.
The attacker removes all targets manually or with the map button if done reeking havoc.


This should cover almost any results the player desires with as few clicks as possible. (We are truly lazy creatures.)

The first scenario also covers if there is only one action on a failed save and nothing on a successful save, which is the case of most spells. The player just clicks the primary action and then removes all targets.

[Bidmaron]

One more scenario. There is an improved evasion feat that lets you take half damage even if you fail saving throw and no damage if you pass saving throw.

[Nickademus]

You are correct. I forgot to mention that the right-click radial menu will have the option of switching a target from primary to secondary and secondary to primary. So if a creature has evasion, you simply untarget it after the successful save. If a creature has improved evasion and fails the save, you right-click and switch it to a secondary target before rolling damage.

The scenario has been edited for completeness.

[remocarde]

How would u implement this?