Some Targeting Questions - CoreRPG

[dulux-oz]

Hi Guys,

My brain is currently fried from lack of sleep, so I'm probably missing something really obvious, but...

The Targeting System in the CoreRPG no longer puts up a Targeting Circle in the Character's Colour on Token on an Image any longer - is that right?

Also, is the only way to Target a Token via the Targeting Mode on an Image now - you can't Click on it like before?

Also, what's the difference between the targeting Button and the Selection Mode Button?

And, what's the difference between the two Selection Modes on the GM's Images' Radial Menu & Submenu?

Thanks for answering a such a stupid couple of questions.

[Callum]

https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20044-Release-v3-0&p=163288&viewfull=1#post163288

[dulux-oz]

Thanks Callum - told you I was brain-fried :)

[Trenloe]

I think you need to watch some tutorial videos!

;)

[dulux-oz]

I think you need to watch some tutorial videos!

;)

What the HELL do you think I'm asking for! :p

[Moon Wizard]

Speaking of this topic, one of the most challenging aspects of the new targeting system is the interface.

Technically, the old targeting system only supported PC identity->token targeting. In fact, the PC did not even have to have a token on the map. However, the GM could not set, modify or remove PC targeting. With some of the updates in v2.8.x and v2.9.x, we hacked together a way for GMs to specify targets non-visually. Also, players would accidentally self-target all the time, because single left click was overloaded to target and move.

So, the CTRL-click option is better by being separate, but not obvious to use. Also, it allowed me to add token "selection" which allows group movement (and eventually group rotation). To help compensate, I added the selection and targeting modes for image controls, along with toolbar buttons to trigger.

I'm open to suggestions on how to improve this particular interface. I just haven't come up with anything else that isn't just as problematic.

Regards,
JPG

[Griogre]

Here's my 2 cents on the targeting. I think the click and Ctrl-click targeting actions should be reversed. The most common targeting option is of the current character whose initiative it is needs to target something and in that case, clicking the character's target(s) to select or deselect is the most intuitive action. Since it is that character's turn the default action should assume the character or NPC who's turn it is on the tracker is the character that is doing the targeting. When some character goes when it's not his initiative, ie on an opportunity attack, then Cntrl-click to set the character doing the targeting and click to set his targets.

From watching my players, they really want to click their targets to select/deselect and attack when its their turn. They want the colored targeting circles back to indicate selection over the white arrows as well. I think the current targeting is a two steps forward and one step back for the players and a step forward for GMs. However, eventually you are going to want your PC linked tokens to be part of a character object that knows which character they represent whether placed on the map or combat tracker.

[dulux-oz]

Let me second Griogre's comments - I too think it would be best to CTRL-Click to Select and Click to Target; its a more "natural", "intuitive" action. I also think the coloured targeting circles were one of the best features of the targeting system - while I do like the arrows as well. Could you colour the arrows maybe? Or best of both worlds, have the coloured arrows AND the coloured targeting circles.

Just my $0.02 worth as well.

Cheers

[Callum]

The trouble with the suggestion of reverting to click-to-target is, as JPG pointed out, PCs will frequently target themselves. After all, players need to move their own tokens - arguably more often than they need to target foes. Additionally, with the new arrow targeting indicators (a necessary change from the circles, given the sensible switch from player->token to token->token targeting), it's hard to see if a token is targeting itself, so the self-targeting errors will go unnoticed more often.

What I'd like to see return is the ability to select targets from within the Combat Tracker, which the GM used to have. If this could be brought back and extended to players, it would give another visual indication of active targeting (particularly for self-targeting), and also make the GM's job easier.

[dulux-oz]

As a follow-up, can someone please tell me the difference between the two Selection Modes on the GM's Images' Radial Menu & Submenu?

Thanks

[Trenloe]

As a follow-up, can someone please tell me the difference between the two Selection Modes on the GM's Images' Radial Menu & Submenu?
"Token Target Mode" is the default mode - it allows you to single click on a token to select it and CTRL-Click on a token to target it.

"Token Select Mode" allows you to click-drag to select more than one token at a time. If you just click-drag it will select all of the tokens in the region (the equivalent of clicking each of those tokens individually in "Token Target Mode"). If you CTRL+click-drag it will target all of the tokens selected - handy for those area of effect spells.

The mode can also be changed by the "9 dots" button in the toolbar to the right of the eraser icon.

[Callum]

Yes, the names are a bit misleading. "Token Target Mode" should really be called "Single Token Select Mode", while "Token Select Mode" should be called "Multiple Token Select Mode".

[Callum]

"Token Select Mode" allows you to click-drag to select more than one token at a time. If you just click-drag it will select all of the tokens in the region (the equivalent of clicking each of those tokens individually in "Token Target Mode"). If you CTRL+click-drag it will target all of the tokens selected - handy for those area of effect spells.

What would be really great is if multiple token selection could be linked to pointer shape drawing - given that FG already highlights the map grid squares within a drawn rectangle, circle, or cone, it seems like this should be possible.

[dulux-oz]

Hmm, OK, that makes sense - sort of. I still can't see much difference/use trying it out - maybe in a live game it'll make more sense.

OK, thanks guys.

[Trenloe]

Hmm, OK, that makes sense - sort of. I still can't see much difference/use trying it out - maybe in a live game it'll make more sense.
Put 12 skeletons tokens on your map - and one token for a cleric.

Single click to select the cleric token (Token target mode), then change to "Token Select Mode", hold down CTRL and draw a square around all of the skeletons - these will all be targeted by the cleric, all in one with no need to CTRL-click each one in turn. If the cleric was included in the multi-select just CTRL-click on the cleric token to un-target them. Now - apply turn undead or channel to harm undead! :D

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39085830/Screenshots/Fantasy%20Grounds/Token%20Select%20Mode.JPG

[Griogre]

The trouble with the suggestion of reverting to click-to-target is, as JPG pointed out, PCs will frequently target themselves. After all, players need to move their own tokens - arguably more often than they need to target foes. Additionally, with the new arrow targeting indicators (a necessary change from the circles, given the sensible switch from player->token to token->token targeting), it's hard to see if a token is targeting itself, so the self-targeting errors will go unnoticed more often.

I agree that player's characters often target themselves, but I've haven't seen less targeting of themselves in the new targeting system so I don't see that makes a difference. However, I usually run D&D which is mostly melee combat. From my perspective, targeting arrows are clearer with single target range attacks than the old colored circles, about the same with ranged area attacks, but a bit worse than the circles with single target melee attacks and the worst with multi-target melee attacks.


What I'd like to see return is the ability to select targets from within the Combat Tracker, which the GM used to have. If this could be brought back and extended to players, it would give another visual indication of active targeting (particularly for self-targeting), and also make the GM's job easier.
I've seen some GM's want this, but I've always found it slower to use combat tracker targeting. I'm not sure what I'm missing, maybe its because I run 4E and the tracker normally has so many on it you'd have to scroll it constantly to target? As a GM I almost never target, I just drop the attack roll on the token, top left portrait and occasionally combat tracker. The majority of the time when I use targeting is when an AoE hits most of the party and then I select all enemies and deselect the ones not in the AoE. I also use targeting for third party targeting of effects as well.

[hangarflying]

Not having any experience with the older versions, I found the system used in 3.x to be perfectly acceptable. New players won't have an issue because that's the only way they know. It's you grognards that are the problem! ;-)

[Blacky]

The new system is ok. Might get some using to for old players, but that's ok.

Not knowing in CT who is targeted is on the other hand a huge problem.

[NW_Salmon_Watcher]

I have only gamed once under the new targeting system, but my players and I were highly confused by the absence of the circles. We had to keep stopping and asking, "okay, which enemy are you targeting?" Is there someway to at least bring back the highlighted circles AFTER the player(s) have targeted a foe? That visual cue sure seemed to make combat much more fluid and successful? Then again, myself and my whole group are over 40 years of age and may just be proving it with our confusion! :confused:

[Bidmaron]

Wasn't part of the targeting circle stoppage associated with multiple characters/player? That is, with the old method, you couldn't tell which character was targeting if a player had more than one character?

[Moon Wizard]

If tokens are dragged onto map from PC combat tracker entries, the targeting arrows for that token should always be visible on the client owning that Matching PC.

Also, targeting arrows are shown for "selected" tokens (dark circle) and when hovering mouse over tokens.

As Bidmaron mentioned, the challenge was that targeting was user to token, so GM targeting wasn't visible and multiple characters not supported. Arrows allow display of token to token targeting. Initially, all targeting information was shown all the time, which was to much display confusion, and was toned back in v3.0.2.

Regards,
JPG

[d1wright]

Is there a "Target All" button that you can hold down when you roll your damage to affect every token? Or push to target all?

My cat seemed to have just used it and it made a mess. v3.08

I had 1 enemy targeted. Rolled my hotkey attack for a hit. Only 1 d20 rolled against the proper target.

Hit my hotkey for damage and it rolled against everything in the combat tracker. All enemy units AND all friendly units. My character was even damaged. I looked up after the roll flurry on the screen and the map showed that I did actually have everyone now targeted with arrows.

So what magic button did my cat hold down during the damage roll or push prior to target all?

[Trenloe]

There's no button that I'm aware of to do this. If you clicked the target friendly units and target enemy units button at the top of the image this would do what you're describing: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Tokens#Targeting

[d1wright]

Cat wasn't using the mouse, though. I'll have to see if I can get her to do it again.

[Trenloe]

Cat wasn't using the mouse, though. I'll have to see if I can get her to do it again.
Cat wasn't interested in the mouse? What kind of cat do you have?!? ;)

[damned]

out of curiosity - what were you playing using CoreRPG?

[d1wright]

The cat and I were using Pathfinder as a player. Most likely, she was holding down a key when I used a hotkey from the main bar using a Function key rather than the mouse.

I don't recall seeing anything in the chat window for a missed key that was pressed.

I can't seem to duplicate it using a localhost setup and didn't try to duplicate it during the game.

In order to intentionally select EVERYONE in the combat tracker, I have to use the Target Mode and box the screen. Using the Friendly flag and then the Enemy Mask just toggles between them and doesn't target all.

Still don't know how she did it.

[Nylanfs]

Cat Magic