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Targas
February 15th, 2014, 17:14
Is there somewhere an C&C effects guideline? It looks different from the other rulesets and I wonder how to set e.g. timed effect durations?

Moon Wizard
February 15th, 2014, 18:41
The C&C effects are round-based, just like the ones in 3.5E. The format is similar to 3.5E, though much simpler.

ABIL: <dice phrase or number> (specific ability option)
ATK: <dice phrase or number> (can be targeted)(melee/ranged option)
AC: <number> (can be targeted)(melee/ranged option)
DMG: <dice phrase or number> (can be targeted)(melee/ranged option)
IMMUNE: <damage type>
VULN: <damage type>
RESIST: <damage type>

STR: <number>
DEX: <number>
CON: <number>
INT: <number>
WIS: <number>
CHA: <number>


Blinded = AC: -5
Cowering = AC: -2
Invisible = CONC4
Prone = AC: -5
Stunned = AC: -2

CONC1 = AC: 2
CONC2 = AC: 4
CONC3 = AC:6
CONC4 = AC: 10
COVER1 = AC: 2
COVER2 = AC: 4
COVER3 = AC:6
COVER4 = AC: 10
* = These also map to the modifier box buttons

Regards,
JPG

damned
February 16th, 2014, 04:19
what is CONC?

JohnD
February 16th, 2014, 05:11
Concealment?

Moon Wizard
February 16th, 2014, 05:14
Yeah, the concealment and cover effects were shortened to keep them from being too long in the effects display. It's similar to 3.5E/4E rulesets. Basically, C&C has 4 levels of cover and 4 levels of concealment according to the rules I saw.

Regards,
JPG

dr_venture
February 17th, 2014, 22:47
ABIL: <dice phrase or number> (specific ability option)
ATK: <dice phrase or number> (can be targeted)(melee/ranged option)
AC: <number> (can be targeted)(melee/ranged option)
DMG: <dice phrase or number> (can be targeted)(melee/ranged option)
IMMUNE: <damage type>
VULN: <damage type>
RESIST: <damage type>


The bottom effects are all pretty straight forward, but I don't get the top ones. "ABIL" is presumably for Abilities. I assume "<dice phrase or number>" would be something like "2d4" or "3" or "-1". However, what is "(specific ability option)"? I tried "ABIL: 2 Blacksmith" thinking it would give that character an automatic +2 on their Blacksmith ability while the effects was applied, but that didn't work.

Can we get some definitions/examples for "(specific ability option)," "(can be targeted)," "(melee/ranged option)" and "<damage type>"? Or a link to someplace where these things are defined? Some examples would be nice, too.

This is a very useful part of the ruleset that I hadn't even looked into yet, and I'm guessing that others would also benefit from having this info spelled out and documented.

Thanks! :)

damned
February 17th, 2014, 23:26
yeah an example of a few of these strings fleshed out would be very useful :)

Targas
February 18th, 2014, 04:53
Can we get some definitions/examples for "(specific ability option)," "(can be targeted)," "(melee/ranged option)" and "<damage type>"? Or a link to someplace where these things are defined? Some examples would be nice, too.

Agree. Tried to fiddle around with it on my own with not much success, yet. I would appreciate more information/examples on this.

Trenloe
February 18th, 2014, 11:17
NOTE: Effects do not modify data on the character/NPC record - they come into play when rolls that they are related to are carried out.

You can probably start with looking at examples from the 3.5e ruleset - these won't be 100% the same, but will give you an example of what formatting is like.

Check out the effects section in the 3.5e user guide: https://www.fantasygrounds.com/userguide35E/ref_effects_35E.xcp (look at the various entries under "Effects" in the left hand sidebar: examples and label are good places to start.

There are a lot of example effects in this thread: http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?18006-Effects-library

EDIT: See the thread post below - I'm not sure if damage types have been implemented yet.

In the ruleset \scripts\manager_gamesystem.lua file is a list of the supported damage and energy types. For example:

rangetypes = {
"melee",
"ranged"
};

energytypes = {
"acid",
"cold",
"electricity",
"fire",
"poison",
"sonic"
};

dmgtypes = {
"acid", -- ENERGY DAMAGE TYPES
"cold",
"electricity",
"fire",
"poison",
"sonic",
"adamantine", -- WEAPON PROPERTY DAMAGE TYPES
"bludgeoning",
"cold iron",
"magic",
"mithral",
"piercing",
"silver",
"slashing",
"nonlethal"
};

immunetypes = {
"acid", -- ENERGY DAMAGE TYPES
"cold",
"electricity",
"fire",
"poison",
"sonic",
"sleep", -- OTHER IMMUNITY TYPES
"paralysis",
"petrification",
"charm",
"sleep",
"fear",
"disease"
};

targetableeffectcomps = {
"CONC1",
"CONC2",
"CONC3",
"CONC4",
"COVER1",
"COVER2",
"COVER3",
"COVER4",
"ATK",
"DMG",
"AC",
"IMMUNE",
"VULN",
"RESIST"
};

Trenloe
February 18th, 2014, 11:18
Effects need to be added to the combat tracker - they have a duration (rounds) and an initiative value at which to reduce the duration by 1.

A few examples:



Effect
Results
Notes


ATK:2
Adds 2 to all attacks



ATK:2 melee
Adds 2 to all melee attacks
I'm not sure of how to distinguish between melee and ranged attacks in NPCs


Bless; ATK:1
+1 to all attacks
"Bless;" is just a label - use a semi-colon to separate labels and multiple effects in one line.


Charge; DMG:2;AC:-4
Adds +2 to all damage and subtracts 4 from the AC when attacked.
"Charge" is just a label


RESIST:5 fire
Subtract 5 from all fire damage done to target.
I haven't worked out how to add a damage type to damage rolls. In 3.5e it would be "1d6 fire" but this doesn't work.


IMMUNE: fire
Will take no damage from fire attacks
See note above regarding specifying damage type


VULN: cold
Will take 1.5 damage from cold attacks
See note above regarding specifying damage type


ABIL:2 strength
When a roll directly against the Strength ability (on the main tab of the character sheer) is made, +2 is added to the dice roll.
This does not impact rolls against stats/skills derived from strength.


STR:2
Adds 2 to the current strength statistic value - any bonus when the dice are rolled will rely on the current total for the ability.
Some derived stats (melee attack, for example) are impacted by this changed. Some aren't - skills for example.


As I've noted above, I'm not sure how to specify attack type (melee or ranged) for an NPC, nor do I know how to specify damage type for any damage roll (e.g. fire, bludgeoning, etc.). I may be doing something wrong, or it may be that these have not been implemented fully in the C&C ruleset yet.

Here is an example of effects in use:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/39085830/Screenshots/Fantasy%20Grounds/C%26C%20Effects.JPG


You can see the effects currently in play in the combat tracker - this is with the effects lines minimised.
When a roll is made where an effect applied, you see the effect in square brackets, e.g. when the fighter does damage you see "[DAMAGE] Sword [+2]" the +2 comes from the DMG:2 effect in place because the fighter charged.
When the Giant attacks the fighter you can see the -4 being applied to the fighter's AC "[at Fighter][-4]" as the AC:-4 effect is active.

Moon Wizard
February 18th, 2014, 19:36
Thanks, Trenloe! I just came over to respond, and you had already done it. ;)

Cheers,
JPG

dr_venture
February 19th, 2014, 04:02
Excellent info - thanks! It sounds like damage type has not been implemented fully, then?

So even with the various examples and explanations, the two things I'm left not fully understanding are:

1) ABIL effect. I see the if you just enter something like "ABIL: 5" then every attribute check from the front page and every Ability check from the Abilities page will all have +5 added to them, regardless of the stat or ability rolled against. That has some uses, but I'm guessing that the strength of that effect lies in defining the "(specific ability option)." Anyone know what the valid entries for that are? I've played around with it a bit and can't get anything to work.

2) A few of the options have a modifier named "(can be targeted)" ... what does that mean? Again, looking at the examples and playing around, I can't figure out what that means, if anything.

dr_venture
February 19th, 2014, 04:09
BTW, if anyone is looking for a dev project, it seems like a really good extension would be a small Effects Builder panel that the GM could just type a name and modify a convenient user interface, then drag a generic Effect token from the Effects Builder panel to the CT, and the fully formatted effect would drop into the CT without teh GM having to memorize syntax and type a bunch of stuff in on-the-fly... nor would the GM have to have a huge library of potential Effects for all possible uses.

The Great Oz has spoken. Well, actually he's on the boards and isn't me... so, the great me has blah blahed.

JohnD
February 19th, 2014, 04:18
Yeah, an Effects builder would be nice. I'm making them as I need them on the fly, but would love to have a full roster ahead of time.

Moon Wizard
February 19th, 2014, 05:25
Actually, I've always thought that each effect should have its own detail window, with a name, a list of effects, and various drop-downs for adding / modifying specific effect modifiers. Then, documentation wouldn't be as required to use the feature.

I also think that this would be an excellent system to add to CoreRPG for all rulesets to build on.

There are 2 main problems:
* The effects list concept would probably not be compatible with the current implementation. Not a problem, just do a migration. The only exception being for module data which wouldn't be hard to move over.
* This is not a trivial project. It requires some serious interface design/iteration plus a complete overhaul of effects back end for C&C, 3.5E, PFRPG, 4E and 5E.

So, it's not currently queued, though it's on my personal wish list. Let me know if someone wanders down that dev path, and I can help with the generalization to all rulesets.

Also, for abilities, the valid sub tags are strength, dexterity, etc.

Cheers,
JPG

damned
February 19th, 2014, 06:41
JPG - you know you want to do it!
In the meantime...
JohnD - can you export your effects and post the XML or email it or PM it to me...

Trenloe
February 19th, 2014, 10:50
1) ABIL effect. I see the if you just enter something like "ABIL: 5" then every attribute check from the front page and every Ability check from the Abilities page will all have +5 added to them, regardless of the stat or ability rolled against. That has some uses, but I'm guessing that the strength of that effect lies in defining the "(specific ability option)." Anyone know what the valid entries for that are? I've played around with it a bit and can't get anything to work.
The "(specific ability option)" is the ability name, strength, dexterity, etc.. and is used for rolls directly against that ability.

The effect: ABIL:2 strength would add 2 to all rolls made against the strength ability on the main page - it does not impact rolls made with stats derived off strength.

Slightly related and where some confusion might come in, the STR effect. STR:2 would add 2 to the effective strength score which would then modify the dice roll based on the modified total strength score - this effect does impact some STR based rolls (melee attack, for example) but doesn't seem to impact skills with the Str attribute.


2) A few of the options have a modifier named "(can be targeted)" ... what does that mean? Again, looking at the examples and playing around, I can't figure out what that means, if anything.
This is for how you apply the effect.

EDIT: Sorry, it doesn't look like targeting effects works as I originally described - you can't target a bunch of tokens and apply the effect as one. By default, if tthe GM presses the apply effect button it will be applied to the currently active entry in the combat tracker, if a player presses the button it will be applied to their active character.

To apply effects to other creatures, drag the effect to the token or the entry on the combat tracker to apply the effect that way.

dr_venture
February 19th, 2014, 16:01
The effect: ABIL:2 strength would add 2 to all rolls made against the strength ability on the main page - it does not impact rolls made with stats derived off strength.

Ah - I tried that and it didn't work - turns out that it's case-sensitive... I was putting in "Strength" as it's listed on the front page of the character sheet. Thanks for the clarification. Unfortunately, the fact that the effect bonus doesn't carry through to other stat-based rolls means I'll probably never use it - I can't think of a circumstance where I'd only want to have straight stat rolls and no stat-based rolls (like ability checks) affected. That's meant more as C&C gamer feedback for JPG, as I understand this feature may affect other rulesets differently.

Thanks again, Tren!

dr_venture
February 19th, 2014, 20:53
Actually, I've always thought that each effect should have its own detail window, with a name, a list of effects, and various drop-downs for adding / modifying specific effect modifiers. Then, documentation wouldn't be as required to use the feature.

I also think that this would be an excellent system to add to CoreRPG for all rulesets to build on.

Well, yeah that'd be cool! :D But given that it's such a pain to implement, what about just having a little effect builder at the bottom or top of the Effects window - have a text field for a title, then a dropdown with the valid effects, a field for number or die text, etc. then have an "Add" button that adds that to the current Effect being built. When the GM feels it's ready, then he just drags it from the builder like any old effect onto somebody in the CT. That would eliminate the need to rebuild the underlying Effects code, and make it easier to introduce expanded effects in the future (it's easier for GMs to see a new entry in a menu and figure out what it is, than to find a listing of text values in a forum somewhere).

My main thinking here is that this would cut down on the need to pre-save an saved effect for everything before the game, as having really long lists in that window very quickly makes it all but unusable to me... to hard to find what I want, no way to organize them in the window.

Trenloe
February 19th, 2014, 21:20
Yeah, an effects builder would be nice.


My main thinking here is that this would cut down on the need to pre-save an saved effect for everything before the game, as having really long lists in that window very quickly makes it all but unusable to me... to hard to find what I want, no way to organize them in the window.
Make effects with labels/descriptions - there is a search field in the effects window so it is pretty easy to organise effects and find them fairly qucikly.

Format of the effect would be: <description/label>; Effect1; Effect2; ...

For example, the charge effect that I give in the example effects: Charge; DMG:2;AC:-4

Charge is the label/description - start typing c-h-a etc. in the effects window search field and it will dynamically search the effects in the list to find what you're looking for. You'll soon find that having these effects (especially multi-item effects) in a list can be found very quickly and applied with the click of a button. Using an effect builder would take quite a few clicks - click on DMG, enter 2, click "add effect" to add the effect to a list, select "AC" enter -4, add the effect to the effects list, then add a label so people looking at the effect in the combat tracker will know what it is there for, and add a duration. All of this can be pre-entered in the effects list in the campaign all ready to go.

Yes, an effects generator would be nice - but it is still better to have a list of frequently used effects ready to go.

But, just like a lot of things with Fantasy Grounds, there is a steep learning curve - but spending the time to learn something is well worth it. Effects are very, very powerful - but with that power comes some level of complexity. Don't let the new, perhaps confusing syntax, put you off - there are plenty of people in the 4E, 3.5E and Pathfinder community who have been through the same learning curve as you and now use many, many effects to track lots of different things... :)

A key thing to remember is that the effects list can be exported to a module - so you can make it exactly how you want it and re-use again and again. Perhaps some members of the Castles & Crusades community can get together and create a frequently used effects module that can be a good starting point for everyone???

As an example of what can be done with effects have a look at this list for Pathfinder: www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?18006-Effects-library

damned
February 20th, 2014, 02:17
A key thing to remember is that the effects list can be exported to a module - so you can make it exactly how you want it and re-use again and again. Perhaps some members of the Castles & Crusades community can get together and create a frequently used effects module that can be a good starting point for everyone???

Thats what I said!


In the meantime...
JohnD - can you export your effects and post the XML or email it or PM it to me...

I could make an external module creator (webpage) - everyone can add their effects in and it will export the updated module - it will grow over time...

JohnD
February 20th, 2014, 16:02
JPG - you know you want to do it!
In the meantime...
JohnD - can you export your effects and post the XML or email it or PM it to me...

Hey - almost missed this... yeah I've already got it as an exported module I sent to someone else. PM me an email address and I'll send it.

Trenloe
February 20th, 2014, 16:18
Hey - almost missed this... yeah I've already got it as an exported module I sent to someone else. PM me an email address and I'll send it.
C&C game mechanics are covered by the Open Gaming License (OGL) - why not share your module? :)

JohnD
February 21st, 2014, 01:51
Ah... so I will!

Just note; I think I have the basic modifiers from the PHB and CK Guide, plus a few that I need based on Advantages taken, but this is by no means a complete library. I'm willing to update as I go though.

dr_venture
February 21st, 2014, 17:14
Just curious - I'm unclear as to what can and cannot be shared freely via OGL. I put the OGL spells into a module, but folks were saying I might run afoul of the legal Gods if I were to post it (I have a fixed version where the spell summaries are showing up correctly for anyone who needs it). Well, how about the Crusader's Companion? I'm most of the way to getting the spell list and draggable descriptions all ready in a module... and the module contains all of the credits and licenses and legal stuff. Is *that* OK to share up here? Does it matter that it is a partial implementation of the work?

Trenloe
February 21st, 2014, 17:25
Just curious - I'm unclear as to what can and cannot be shared freely via OGL. I put the OGL spells into a module, but folks were saying I might run afoul of the legal Gods if I were to post it (I have a fixed version where the spell summaries are showing up correctly for anyone who needs it). Well, how about the Crusader's Companion? I'm most of the way to getting the spell list and draggable descriptions all ready in a module... and the module contains all of the credits and licenses and legal stuff. Is *that* OK to share up here? Does it matter that it is a partial implementation of the work?
The OGLs that Troll Lord provide are usually quite specific about what you can and can't distribute. It is covered under the "designation of open game content" in the OGL in the material itself.

Regarding spells. In the Player's Handbook for example, spells are on pages 53-116, in the OGL in the same book on page 142 it includes in the "designation of open game content" section the following: "all text appearing on pages 49-116" as being open content - so this covers all of the spells (in the Player's Handbook).

Ultimately, there are many, many games out there who do not understand the OGL and, more so, copyright in general - so don't take other people's word for it, check out the OGL statement for each document you are thinking of distributing information from and make sure you include all of that OGL statement in any material you distribute.

I don't have the Crusader's Companion so don't know what is covered as open content in that book.

JohnD
February 21st, 2014, 18:29
I believe (there's that word again...) that the Crusader's Companion is entirely player generated open content. But I could be wrong... there are a few pages of legal disclaimers in there, designated as open gaming content.

www.trolllord.com/downloads/pdfs/crusaderscompanion.pdf‎

Troll Lord hosts the file themselves in the "Fan Resources" downloads section.

Trenloe
February 21st, 2014, 18:36
I believe (there's that word again...) that the Crusader's Companion is entirely player generated open content. But I could be wrong... there are a few pages of legal disclaimers in there, designated as open gaming content.
Thanks for the link. :)

I think it's pretty clear, from page 2:

Designation of Open Game Content: The following is designated Open Game Content pursuant to the OGL v1.0a: all text excluding the OGL license.
Designation of Product Identity: Product identity is not Open Game Content. The following is designated as product identity pursuant to OGL v1.0a(1)(e) and (7): Nothing in this document is product identity.
Everything's Open Gaming Content so go nuts - just include the OGL statement in anything you distribute.

Andraax
February 22nd, 2014, 02:17
Just note; I think I have the basic modifiers from the PHB and CK Guide, plus a few that I need based on Advantages taken, but this is by no means a complete library. I'm willing to update as I go though.

I just did a brief glance at your module, and it's pretty good. I have not done a complete audit, but I noticed two that are incorrect: Dodge should be AC: 2, not AC: 1, and Charge should be DMG: 2 not ATK: 2.

JohnD
February 22nd, 2014, 05:08
Huh... thanks for that! :)

Andraax
February 22nd, 2014, 13:25
Huh... thanks for that! :)

Those kinda jumped out at me because I have a player that uses those extensively. :)

Rook
March 8th, 2014, 13:27
Hi JohnD,

Could you tell me where to place the file "attachment.php" that contain the C&C Effects & modifiers?

Thank you,

Rook

JohnD
March 8th, 2014, 13:30
Hey Rook... not sure what you're referring to. But I will be uploading a new version soon.

Rook
March 8th, 2014, 13:40
JohnD,

When I click on the link entitle "C&C effects & modifiers.zip" that you posted on Fed. 20, I am prompted to save or open "attachment.php" from the fantasygrounds site. I am confused as to why it comes up "attachment.php". Any theories?

Rook

JohnD
March 8th, 2014, 14:37
Hmm... no idea - from distant memory might be something to do with security settings on your browser, but I'm reaching back 5+ to my techie days. PM me an email address and I'll send you the file.

damned
March 8th, 2014, 23:31
try a different browser to start with - it should be a .zip file but there have been the odd post where someone else has experienced a similar issue.

dr_venture
March 9th, 2014, 21:08
When I click on the link entitle "C&C effects & modifiers.zip" that you posted on Fed. 20, I am prompted to save or open "attachment.php" from the fantasygrounds site. I am confused as to why it comes up "attachment.php". Any theories?

The link to John's module doesn't go straight to the module file, it goes to a PHP web page on the FG web site that manages files attached to forum postings. If you are right-clicking the link and choosing "Save Link As..." (or something like that), you're actually saving the web page that manages attachments, not the attachment. You have to click on the link normally.

Of course, if you *are* clicking on the link normally... I got nothin. Perhaps another browser (or making sure you have the latest version of your preferred browser) is the best way to go.

damned
March 9th, 2014, 23:26
The link to John's module doesn't go straight to the module file, it goes to a PHP web page on the FG web site that manages files attached to forum postings. If you are right-clicking the link and choosing "Save Link As..." (or something like that), you're actually saving the web page that manages attachments, not the attachment. You have to click on the link normally.

Of course, if you *are* clicking on the link normally... I got nothin. Perhaps another browser (or making sure you have the latest version of your preferred browser) is the best way to go.

http://www.fg-con.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/file-download.jpg

Moon Wizard
March 17th, 2014, 19:49
Added details and examples to the C&C user guides on the wiki.

Link to Wiki User Guides (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/User_Guides)

Cheers,
JPG

JohnD
March 17th, 2014, 19:57
Hmm... reminds me I've added some effects; need to upload an update.