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Michael Hopcroft
February 13th, 2014, 04:25
I imagine that at least someone will want to run Fate Core or Fate Accelerated at FG Con, or run a live campaign at some point. What I'm wondering is whether anyone is working on bringing these games to FG. I am very new to FG, so this question probably sounds like someone reinventing the wheel.

I'm wondering if there is a set that:

1. Rolls 4dF
2. Tracks the Fate Point economy (players gain and spend points constantly as aspects are involved, situational aspects are created, and they fail or succeed at tasks)
3. Has a place to note all the Scene Aspects that get created
4. Enables the players to track Stress and Consequences
5. Lets the GM see at a glance which players have which Aspects so they can be easily Compelled

How difficult is that to accomplish? I know I can't do it myself, at least on my own, due to my lack of knowledge of XML/LUA -- but is someone both able to do it and interested in the task? And what is involved in doing it?

Moon Wizard
February 13th, 2014, 06:39
Valarian was running a Fate Core game last September, and he has some community rulesets he has put together.

The link from his sig:
Valarian's Fantasy Grounds Rulesets (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B75Lr5C1Hpx3Z2ZDTWZNek5sMUE&usp=sharing)

I'm not sure how much of the rules that his systems support, but he is providing them to the community to use.

Regards,
JPG

Valarian
February 13th, 2014, 07:49
The Dresden Files ruleset works for running Fate Core.

Valarian
February 13th, 2014, 12:56
I'm wondering if there is a set that:
1. Rolls 4dF
2. Tracks the Fate Point economy (players gain and spend points constantly as aspects are involved, situational aspects are created, and they fail or succeed at tasks)
3. Has a place to note all the Scene Aspects that get created
4. Enables the players to track Stress and Consequences
5. Lets the GM see at a glance which players have which Aspects so they can be easily Compelled

More detailed reply now I'm not on the mobile.

1. Yes, though I've not updated to the FG3 CoreRPG yet so the graphics are d6 rather than the nifty new Fudge dice graphics.
2. Yes, the Fate points are recorded (refresh/current) on the character sheet.
3. Not specifically. I tend to use a shared Note or Story item for this.
4. Yes, the Stress Tracks are on the character sheet.
5. The GM has visibility over all the character sheets.
I was even starting to play with a double-click on the aspect line giving the message: <name> invokes <aspect> for a player character, or: GM compels <aspect> for the GM double-clicking the aspect.

Happy to do a demo at some point one evening, if time zones are compatible. Or I can crunch up a demo campaign file for you to look at, which would allow you to look at the ruleset. If running the demo campaign in the unregistered/lite versions the same restrictions apply to the standard ones. You can't save or create stuff, only use what's already there, and the connections are limited to a single player.

chillybilly
February 13th, 2014, 21:17
I am also interested in this ruleset. I downloaded the Dresden one, is most recent one?

MurghBpurn
February 13th, 2014, 21:51
A Core Fate Core would be nice...

Michael Hopcroft
February 14th, 2014, 04:46
I've managed to copy over one my my Fate Core characters into the DF set. It looks a bit different but should be nice and functional.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't like to see a dedicated Fate Core ruleset, or a mode dedicated adaptation of another set. Sadly, I got an unpleasant reminder at work today about the limits of my skills with syntax (in writing spreadsheet formulas, an easier task than codeing XML).

Valarian
February 14th, 2014, 08:33
Current future plans for Fate are a CoreRPG Fate Core with some basic OGL/CC libraries (I'll have to investigate what I can do under the licenses). I'm planning on having some sort of customisable interface for the number/type of stress tracks and skill lists. I'm hoping some basic XML tables will cover this with some Lua initialisation scripting. I'm also hoping that the extension layering will allow me to do all of this as extensions of CoreRPG, rather than a Fate version of CoreRPG with flavour extensions for the various Fate games.

Quite when I'll have the time to do all this and everything else I want to do, I have no idea.

Blacky
February 14th, 2014, 12:43
Fate Core is also licensed under Creative Commons CC-BY, which is much much better than the OGL. Under CC-BY you'll just have to make a clear statement that your resource is powered by Fate Core by Evil Hat, and nothing more. See http://www.faterpg.com/licensing/licensing-fate-cc-by/ for more details.

As far as I know, Fate Core is the most open serious rpg there is, going even further than Eclipse Phase.

As for Fate Accelerated and other various flavors of Fate, I think a lot of work can be done with Extensions, and/or children rulesets.

If you do a CoreRPG Fate Core ruleset and need help with graphics, drop me a PM, I'll happily lend a hand.

chillybilly
February 14th, 2014, 13:31
I would love a robust FATE ruleset (SOF and DF seem to be buggy) and I am willing to wait however long it takes. I certainly understand that people capable of making these kind of rulesets have other (and more important) obligations!

Valarian
February 14th, 2014, 14:46
"SOF and DF seem to be buggy" ... In what way?
The Spirit of the Century extension is based on the (really) old Foundation project started by Smiteworks before it changed hands. It is character sheet only and very basic in functionality.
The Dresden Files ruleset is based on a community Base ruleset project. It's got Character Sheet, NPC Sheet and Combat Tracker. I've used it for several games myself. I don't consider this one buggy and would appreciate a list of any issues you've found.

chillybilly
February 14th, 2014, 15:03
DF seems to hate my tokens. When I place them on a map, I get a weird error. I was using effects in the combat tracker to place aspects on NPCs and PCs and my players could only see the first one placed. All my GM rolls are hidden from the players. When my players would close certain maps, I'd get an error message. When a PC makes an input on his PC sheet (or I make on on his, like checking a stress box) we have to close and open for the other person to see the effect.

Maybe this is a result of the latest FG updates? Maybe it's purely operator error or something on my side.

I'm not complaining though! It works well enough to use FATE so I'm happy. Just stating that if something a little more robust came out, that would be great too.

Valarian
February 14th, 2014, 16:18
GM rolls default to hidden in all rulesets. Use /die reveal to set the option to show all GM rolls. In a newer ruleset, I'll be using the options menu.
I also use effects to put aspects on to players in the combat tracker. The players see the effects as a comma delimited list under their name. This is standard effects functionality not something I've touched.
I could do with some examples on the image/token errors. I've not seen any of those, but I don't tend to heavily use maps. Sounds a bit strange though. Are the tokens off the combat tracker, or from the token box? Interference from the new targeting functionality maybe?

I think the character sheet update issue is a common problem in all rulesets. You have to shift tabs or close/open the character sheet to see updates that the GM puts on to the sheet. I've seen update collisions on some objects, where both player and GM update the same thing in a short space of time, though I don't think it was with this ruleset.

chillybilly
February 14th, 2014, 16:31
Good to know about the hidden rolls, that was a bit of a pain. Thanks! The tokens are drawn from the combat tracker. It's not a big deal, I just let the debug screen run quietly in the background. Shifting tabs is much better than close/open, thanks for that tip too.

Von Stalhein
February 16th, 2014, 02:23
In case it's of interest, I did a FATE Accelerated character sheet for CoreRPG. It was posted in the Armory: http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?20288-FATE-Accelerated-Mini-Ruleset-%28FateRPG%29

Probably could work for FATE Core without too much difficulty. I track Fate points using an abstract image with tokens as fate points, for the record.

Mask_of_winter
February 16th, 2014, 12:02
I too would love a Fate Core ruleset with extensions to customize the different iterations of the rules. I want to run The Demolished Ones. I managed to prepare most of it using images, templates and tokens with the CoreRPG and I think it's going to work fine since Fate is rules lite. But yeah, the whole idea of running things on FG over other VTTs is the automation. Von Stalhein's ruleset is great but it's FATE Accelerated, I needed the Fate Core. Playtesting FATE to new FATE players for the first time I wanted something that wouldn't confuse them. Dresden Files works great also but my main pet peeve about is that there are no fudge dice and the d6 is used to emulate them. I'm also unsure how it would respond to the FG 3.0.2 upgrade. Coming from Savage Worlds where that upgrade initially created many bugs I opted not to take a chance. I know it's anal retentive on my part so take it for what it's worth.6064

Valarian
February 16th, 2014, 14:35
The Dresden Files ruleset works with the 3.0.2 update, as it has on the previous v3 ones. The native Fudge dice aren't there though as I've not merged it yet with CoreRPG. Though that may just be a case of changing the model used in the dF custom die definition.

S Ferguson
February 23rd, 2014, 20:58
@Valarian: That's what I did. It works with the FG3 Core FATE die.
@Mask: I'd give the Dresden Files a few more whirls before giving up on it. With the FATE/FUDGE die added as in the native FG3 Core (it involves getting rid of all the die setup code and calling up the dF in the startup code). Myself, I'm working on a generic set that that allows more collaboration (building settings, etc.) and having "index cards" available for use. However it's a long way from being finished and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. BTW who said FATE was Rules Lite? Sure the mechanics are simple, but knowing when and where to use them is another matter; not to mention the fact that it's more of a collaborative effort to get the game setting and characters up and running. I usually refer to this type of game (specifically FATE Core and Toolkit) as rules distributed. :)

Cheers,
SF

Mask_of_winter
February 24th, 2014, 13:08
@Valarian: That's what I did. It works with the FG3 Core FATE die.
@Mask: I'd give the Dresden Files a few more whirls before giving up on it. With the FATE/FUDGE die added as in the native FG3 Core (it involves getting rid of all the die setup code and calling up the dF in the startup code). Myself, I'm working on a generic set that that allows more collaboration (building settings, etc.) and having "index cards" available for use. However it's a long way from being finished and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. BTW who said FATE was Rules Lite? Sure the mechanics are simple, but knowing when and where to use them is another matter; not to mention the fact that it's more of a collaborative effort to get the game setting and characters up and running. I usually refer to this type of game (specifically FATE Core and Toolkit) as rules distributed. :)

Cheers,
SF

All I meant by rules lite is you don't need a lot of complicated things on the character sheet to run it. Proof is I set it up on the core ruleset. Image of Health tracker, skills, aspects and stunts can be added as needed on the sheet. Keep in mind I'm running the Demolished Ones. Only the basic elements that define FATE as it's core (at least in my opinion) are used in this mini-set/ adventure. That's why I chose it. Never played Fate but have read several books. Dresden Files, Spirit of the Century and Legend of Anglerre (to name a few) are a different beast. I'll give you that :)

Valarian
February 24th, 2014, 14:28
Two of the next three game ideas I've put forward to my group for Sunday nights are Fate Core. The selected game will start around Easter. Either a Stargate team or a game in a world of zombies.

S Ferguson
February 24th, 2014, 17:49
@ Valarien: If you need any Zombie fighters, I'm game. Despise them. Never met one I liked (they aren't too talkative, mind you). :D I played Stargate (the one based off the Spycraft system) and found it a reasonable approximation with the early seasons, fighting the Goa'uld, but as soon as you hit the replicators or the Aurai, it kind of fell apart. I'd be curious to know how you plan to work around this. I personally found when it was switched to a later Stargate: Atlantis setting things ran a little more smoothly. With FATE I managed to get a good gel with Battlestar Galactica (new series, not old) and moved Cyberpunk 2030 successfully; but I'm still (after a while) working my way through the Toolkit to better handle SyFy the way I think it should be run - not so pulpy, and with a little more player involvement. Any suggestions?

@ Mask: Sorry for the misunderstanding. Actually I've run one game of FATE right off the CoreRPG, and actually, for the Demolished Ones, it seems a perfect fit. I was thinking along the lines of the other games you mentioned, Notably SoTC and The Dresden Files. Try FATE Core at some point, if for nothing but an interesting read. It has a lot of optional (not that everything is "optional" in RPGs:)) rules that can ease any player and GM into the system. It's a Pay-What-You-Want product on RPGNow, and well worth the donation. It even impressed me enough to pick up the hardcopies (gosh, I love books :D).

Cheers,
SF

Valarian
February 24th, 2014, 23:23
Fate should be able to scale up as far as needed. The Ori would have some nice aspects. I'll be using the setting, not the system.

Mask_of_winter
February 25th, 2014, 00:32
@ Mask: Sorry for the misunderstanding. Actually I've run one game of FATE right off the CoreRPG, and actually, for the Demolished Ones, it seems a perfect fit. I was thinking along the lines of the other games you mentioned, Notably SoTC and The Dresden Files. Try FATE Core at some point, if for nothing but an interesting read. It has a lot of optional (not that everything is "optional" in RPGs:)) rules that can ease any player and GM into the system. It's a Pay-What-You-Want product on RPGNow, and well worth the donation. It even impressed me enough to pick up the hardcopies (gosh, I love books :D).

Cheers,
SF

Yep, got it. The toolkit too. I'm a rpgnow junkie lol

S Ferguson
February 25th, 2014, 03:22
Fate should be able to scale up as far as needed. The Ori would have some nice aspects. I'll be using the setting, not the system.

Just off the top of my hat, how would you set up the setting aspects? FATE will do pretty much everything, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the character/setting aspect phase. Everybody would probably know someone through, say, military service, or reputation, so that's taken care of; what would be an example of the setting aspects (I can think of a few but they're anything but original :p).

S Ferguson
February 25th, 2014, 03:25
Yep, got it. The toolkit too. I'm a rpgnow junkie lol

Ditto. And I really LOVE the pay what you want deals. :) Lol. Not too often you can pick up five decent games for a fin.

Cheers,
SF

Valarian
February 25th, 2014, 08:35
Stargate SG-1 - Season 9 Aspects
Stargate Command is a secret programme (common through all of the series I would think)
SGC Mission is to protect Earth
Department of Homeworld Security
Threat from the Ori and their followers
The Ori are Ascended Beings
The Priors have strange powers
Galactic Supergates are being built

S Ferguson
February 25th, 2014, 16:44
It was only "secret" until the beginning of SG:A when civilians came in, I think it went semi-public to full public in SG:Universe. For Stargate, it was need-to-know amongst the Russians and Americans, and only a few civvies were "let in on the secret," Jackson being a prime example. But don't quote me on this, it's been a while since I've seen it.

Valarian
February 25th, 2014, 20:06
I think it's secret throughout. You still need clearance to know about the Stargate. What does change is that it goes beyond just the US and Russia, becoming an international thing. Still not public, but known to most government leaders.

Michael Hopcroft
March 8th, 2014, 22:42
IIRC, at the end of the original movie O'Neill (or the analogous character played by Kurt Russell) decided to destroy the Stargate from the Earth side (he was originally going to do it on the alien-planet side, but ended up using the bomb elsewhere and would have had to go back to Earth for another one anyway). Which begs the question of why an Earth that didn't want contact with the aliens would bother with Stargate Command and not simply blow up the gates wherever they found them oN Earth and deny aliens access to the planet that way?

I also don't know what happened with the producers and RPG designer Richard Tucholka. His game Fringeworthy was about ten years before Stargate and he had reason to believe his intellectual property had been stolen by the studio.

Valarian
March 11th, 2014, 09:33
Made a start on a CoreRPG version of a Fate Core ruleset. The main character sheet windows are laid out. I just need to add the content.
The main tab will be based on the current Dresden Files layout (see below). I'll post a comparison screenshot when the tab is complete.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DTucCKMTre0/S_Jk_J_ZU0I/AAAAAAAAAEM/6ty3vdi0cX8/w1024-h576-no/dfrpg-char-main.jpg

Valarian
March 11th, 2014, 09:38
I'm still (after a while) working my way through the Toolkit to better handle SyFy the way I think it should be run - not so pulpy, and with a little more player involvement. Any suggestions?
May want to cast an eye over Mindjammer - Sarah Newton is updating her setting (originally for Starblazer Adventures) to Fate Core.
http://mindjammerpress.com/

S Ferguson
March 11th, 2014, 17:17
May want to cast an eye over Mindjammer - Sarah Newton is updating her setting (originally for Starblazer Adventures) to Fate Core.
http://mindjammerpress.com/

There is also Diaspora, the "hard science" FATE driven RPG. It's quite good, and definitely *not* pulpy.

Valarian
March 11th, 2014, 17:39
There is also Diaspora, the "hard science" FATE driven RPG. It's quite good, and definitely *not* pulpy.
Didn't like Diaspora so much as others. I like Bulldogs!, Starblazers and Mindjammers. Diaspora didn't hook me, as a game, I think because of all the "sub-game" stuff.

S Ferguson
March 11th, 2014, 17:56
It takes time getting used to when and where to play the mini-games but the science is up to snuff, but as with any FATE product, you can pick and choose what you use. Right now I'm working with Apothesis: Drive X, a beta for 'mech combat. Between the two, I have come up with a pretty good treatment of Starship Troopers, by R.A. Heinlein, and the Forever War by Joseph Haldeman (the latter being one of my favorite science novel aside from the first - I'd include The Man Who Folded Himself by David Gerrald, but haven't had the time to work out the paradox mechanism for insane time-travel).

Valarian
March 11th, 2014, 22:35
Start of the new ruleset. Slow going so far as I'm getting used to the new CoreRPG ways of doing stuff.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WkjOr3PdX1w/Ux9_SQTb67I/AAAAAAAAA3Y/eghfaZ_RiVA/w1117-h675-no/screenshot0024.png
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3JNfTtp-5nw/Ux-BUisPGeI/AAAAAAAAA38/e9uUgSJdVP4/w1117-h675-no/screenshot0026.png


Made a start on a CoreRPG version of a Fate Core ruleset. The main character sheet windows are laid out. I just need to add the content.
The main tab will be based on the current Dresden Files layout (see below). I'll post a comparison screenshot when the tab is complete.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DTucCKMTre0/S_Jk_J_ZU0I/AAAAAAAAAEM/6ty3vdi0cX8/w1024-h576-no/dfrpg-char-main.jpg

chillybilly
March 11th, 2014, 23:45
Wow, I love that background with the ladder included. Looks great, can't wait to use it.

Valarian
March 11th, 2014, 23:50
Just got the skills list in - not got the double-click die rolling sorted yet. The Dresden Files ruleset is functional for Fate Core use, I've used it for that myself. Just ignore the Social stress track. I'm just updating the ruleset and building on the CoreRPG ruleset. I'll do an SRD library eventually as well (under the CC-BY license). The aspects can be compelled (GM) or invoked (player) by double-clicking them. I intend to do some sort of addition/subtraction to current Fate points when I've got that on the sheet.

Then on to Gumshoe - beyond the basic character sheet I've done so far.

S Ferguson
March 12th, 2014, 01:36
If I could ask for a feature request (and to make it more FATE Core): Could you leave a section for the game aspects. Those are just as likely to change as the character's but they really are a separate entity which players and GMs participate in. The GMs game setting rules could be vast, but the game world's connection to the characters is, just as character creation is, a crucial point of the game.

Valarian
March 12th, 2014, 07:37
Anything needed beyond a shared note or story item?

S Ferguson
March 12th, 2014, 20:59
Anything needed beyond a shared note or story item?

I was thinking more in terms of an "index card" or "post it note" system (if you could work that out) so that characters and GMs can pass around and having the characters' setting aspect stick. This is usually done verbally, so a section in the character sheet that can be added to, and subtracted from, (a fairly easy task within the CoreRPG) would probably solve the problem. It could be placed under the character's aspects, as "Story Aspects." In this box, for lack of a better word, the characters can list the two (more or less) aspects for the story, and their relation to the setting would go in their aspect box. It's really not much. I just like all the information the PCs need on the character sheet. Otherwise it seems to be looking good.

Valarian
March 13th, 2014, 14:03
Public note items work well as "post-it" notes. I've got a screenshot at home of a Star Wars game where we used those. I'll post it.

On stress tracks, I am currently thinking of doing these as a template window class with a max score number controlling the visibility of the individual stress boxes. I also want to create an option in the template for using them in the normal way, or in the ammo counter method used by some Fate games.

Valarian
March 13th, 2014, 14:08
For setting aspects and scene aspects, I may look at tailoring the party sheet.

S Ferguson
March 13th, 2014, 18:55
For setting aspects and scene aspects, I may look at tailoring the party sheet.

That would be a great addition. And I'd like to see a shot of "public notes" being used as "post-it's." If they do the job I'm all for it! :)

One other question. Are you going to allow Conditions within the ruleset?

Valarian
March 15th, 2014, 08:59
Screenshot of user notes as post-its

Valarian
March 15th, 2014, 12:01
Character Sheet for Fate Core

S Ferguson
March 15th, 2014, 14:09
O.K. That makes *much* more sense now. And they're kinda catchy too. Do you ever feel like your screen's too cluttered though? :)

Cheers,
SF

Michael Hopcroft
March 18th, 2014, 00:25
Character Sheet for Fate Core

That looks nice, compact, and like it will get the job done. I like that all the really significant stuff is on one page, taking full advantage of that feature of Fate.

What are the other two tabs used for, by the way?

Valarian
March 18th, 2014, 00:28
I've not changed them. Standard CoreRPG inventory and notes.

Blacky
March 18th, 2014, 00:57
Nice and compact, although I would have sorted alphabetically the skill list. Right now it can take a few seconds to find the rank of a specific skill, especially when you're the GM parsing 4 or 5 PC sheets in the middle of a contest.

There's also not that much place for aspects. Could a single zone, with less margins and empty spaces could have more? And/or using the space above the firsts aspects: that's quite a huge space for a huge name, which will be cut off under the portrait anyway. Maybe the name could start above the top left corner of the skill list, and the space liberated used for more aspect (or more consequences, for consequences descriptors longer than a couple of words)?

On another subject, I was wondering if you had anything special planned for compels (and anything along those lines)? This one area where IRL tabletop FATE game are superiors, there's the expression of the faces, the GM playing with a token or two, trying to give it to the player, the other players hoping or fearing the result, and so on. That all back and forth, a big part of it non verbal, is completely lost in virtual tabletop.

S Ferguson
March 18th, 2014, 03:07
Nice and compact, although I would have sorted alphabetically the skill list. Right now it can take a few seconds to find the rank of a specific skill, especially when you're the GM parsing 4 or 5 PC sheets in the middle of a contest.

There's also not that much place for aspects. Could a single zone, with less margins and empty spaces could have more? And/or using the space above the firsts aspects: that's quite a huge space for a huge name, which will be cut off under the portrait anyway. Maybe the name could start above the top left corner of the skill list, and the space liberated used for more aspect (or more consequences, for consequences descriptors longer than a couple of words)?

On another subject, I was wondering if you had anything special planned for compels (and anything along those lines)? This one area where IRL tabletop FATE game are superiors, there's the expression of the faces, the GM playing with a token or two, trying to give it to the player, the other players hoping or fearing the result, and so on. That all back and forth, a big part of it non verbal, is completely lost in virtual tabletop.

FATE chip dangling used in compels and invoking, I believe can be manipulated by the GM quite well in a VTT situation (assuming you have voice; even though the game isn't face-to-face I find you get more bang for your buck with compels because the player can't see the expression of the GM's face. Ditto for other players that call out compels. First rule of adventuring: Keep the players in the dark, until it's time not to keep them in the dark. It's seems to be a maxim of how FATE unfolds. Also, I tend to like the ranking order. I tend to play "pyramid" style rather than "columns." (even though I loved the Dresden Files) and at least now I can visualize the pyramid albeit the fact they're in a linear order.


I just hope there's room for stunts, a little more room for aspects (not much more) and some sort of organized character background section that doesn't fall under "Notes." I like the pertinent (in est - needed to play) information on the front page of the character block as it is currently. I don't want to go hunting for information I'm going to need. And while I'm on the topic of a "wish list." as you're usually always rolling 4dF every time, an auto-roll box should be available for skills, and other contests.

Rolemaster has a die box that generates different types of rolls so it wouldn't be to difficult to implement - a throw die call after pushing the fate die icon. I've always found it funny when the FATE dice show up under the Core, it still assumes you're rolling any ordinary polyhedron. Oh well, beggars can't be choosers. Maybe an automatic 4 die spread when you pick them up. There's also the option of FATE Cards!:)

Regards,
SF

Blacky
March 18th, 2014, 03:50
Yup forgot about Stunts. First&only tech tab is starting to have exponential pixel real estate prices… as far as I can see it's either blow it up into two tabs, or maybe moving Fate Points to the left column (in a part of the space liberated by a shorter name and a single aspect zone), and place those Stunts where Fate Points are now. But even with that, it's going to be quite small.

Could gain some space on the bottom too, that huge bottom margin doesn't need to be.

Or do what a few ruleset have done, increase the whole window's width.

As for the the skill list sorting, yes it helps with pyramid, but the day-to-day use would benefits from alphabetical sorting. Maybe a small button (like on the top left corner, for symmetry with the edit list button) to toggle between different type of sorting?

For the note, yes some organization on the character background/historic/description. But maybe not too much. Not two characters are alike. Some may need as little as a 5 words description, other two paragraphs. Some have zero contacts and the like, other have a full page. Some have a two lines historic, some have 20 pages. Albeit a detail, the Note name of the tab is wrong. Notes have a dedicated tool. This is probably more like a Background tab, or Description tab, or something along those lines.

Just my 2 cents.

S Ferguson
March 18th, 2014, 04:16
Well you're guaranteed to have each player have at minimum two other "contacts" in the form of the other PCs; and I wholeheartedly agree that notes have there own tool. But seeing that they are being used as "Post-It" Notes for Setting Aspects (see below). Then We need another tool to take down adventuring notes. Oh, the horrors. It'll cascade into note tools for note tools & they'll take over the world! :D

I think I need more sleep.

Seriously, the window width and height could easily be altered to include the major stuff on the first page but there's the price of the real estate for the rest of the screen. Right now I'm having visions of notes and a character sheet all over my screen so I can't even see the chat box. And I agree; the tab shouldn't be called "Notes" unless the shared notes turns into an index card machine. This, I see as inevitable. Perhaps it should be split into two tools, a notes tool for taking notes (which I believe they were intended for) and maybe a separate "Setting Aspect" tool that just has a header for, say, the location and then a few lines to write out the aspect(s) on and make them be able to be public. A small rectangular region could be used. I don't know. It gets a little out of hand with the index cards in my face-to-face games.

Regards,
SF

Blacky
March 18th, 2014, 15:23
Seriously, the window width and height could easily be altered to include the major stuff on the first page
Not its height, it will change the screen requirements and may create issues with some small screens (like netbooks).

Trenloe
March 18th, 2014, 17:34
Not its height, it will change the screen requirements and may create issues with some small screens (like netbooks).
Yeah, rulesets should really be coded to be usable with 1024x768 screen sizes (for those using 4:3 aspect ratio) so that people playing on netbooks and similar small screen resolutions will still be able to view full windows without having to drag them around the screen. Yes, it is very hard to use FG at this resolution (basically the chat window and one or two windows are viewable) but the sizing of the interface should be designed with this minimum size in mind.

S Ferguson
March 20th, 2014, 01:25
Not its height, it will change the screen requirements and may create issues with some small screens (like netbooks).

I was just making note that both options could be altered. I'm not really restricted for screen space, but I do have a 15" screen attached as a side monitor (to make sure everything is going well with the perspective). Increasing it's width lowers screen real estate just as badly IMHO. The current size seems to be the lesser of two evils. It'll just be a matter (hopefully) of organizing the data efficiently and tersely on each page of the character sheet, It's really Valarian's choice here.

Michael Hopcroft
March 24th, 2014, 21:14
Having picked up a hardcopy of the Fate Freeport Companion at Gamestorm, it reminded me that the Fate Core engine is hacked so frequently that you will always want to do things in your specific game that differ from everybody else's campaigns. In Freeport, you use Skills that represent the D20 Characteristics, modified by gear and Stunts, to do things. It won't play like d20, but it does give you the tools to use almost everything published for d20 with the game style of Fate.

The problem is that to use all that flavorful goodness from specific hacks you need to find ways to alter the ruleset, or at the very least the character sheets, to manage them. Fate Freeport might be a different thing entirely from standard Fate Core for FG purposes.

Valarian
March 25th, 2014, 09:40
I have considered leaving the skills list blank, as with the current (Dresden Files) ruleset, with the player doing the addition of skills during character creation. This is a more generic approach. I think, with the CoreRPG setup, that an extension to tailor the skills list and text labels will make customisation fairly easy. I intend to produce some customisation extensions for common Fate games as part of this project.

Michael Hopcroft
March 26th, 2014, 05:02
I have considered leaving the skills list blank, as with the current (Dresden Files) ruleset, with the player doing the addition of skills during character creation. This is a more generic approach. I think, with the CoreRPG setup, that an extension to tailor the skills list and text labels will make customisation fairly easy. I intend to produce some customisation extensions for common Fate games as part of this project.

It is feasible to combine the two goals -- have a user-definable set of skills (you make the list when entering your PC) while still enabling you to roll your dice by clicking on the number on the sheet (say I have a skill at +3 -- I click on the +3 and the program automatically rolls 4dF+3)?

I'm reading the Fate Freeport Companion, which is exceedingly useful if you want to run Fate in a d20 setting -- there's no way it's going to play the same, but it does let you use a literal abundance of settings and source material while taking a new approach to it. The Freeport hack transforms the six core Characteristics of d20 into the six core Skills for a Fate game. It even provides a handy conversion chart, intended for creatures but still useful for people. That made a Slayers hack occur to me that might combine the Approaches of FAE with these six Skills in some way, so that you could do things like use your Intelligence Forcefully to hurl a powerful attack spell, while using it Sneakily if you want to use a spell to affect someone more subtly.

S Ferguson
March 26th, 2014, 05:07
I have considered leaving the skills list blank, as with the current (Dresden Files) ruleset, with the player doing the addition of skills during character creation. This is a more generic approach. I think, with the CoreRPG setup, that an extension to tailor the skills list and text labels will make customisation fairly easy. I intend to produce some customisation extensions for common Fate games as part of this project.

I tend to agree with the notion of auto-rolling 4F. Mods can be placed in the modifiers box if you want to keep it simple (although taking the skill rank into consideration would be cool). What extensions are you planning to support?

Cheers,
SF

Valarian
March 26th, 2014, 09:40
It is feasible to combine the two goals -- have a user-definable set of skills (you make the list when entering your PC) while still enabling you to roll your dice by clicking on the number on the sheet (say I have a skill at +3 -- I click on the +3 and the program automatically rolls 4dF+3)?

I tend to agree with the notion of auto-rolling 4F. Mods can be placed in the modifiers box if you want to keep it simple (although taking the skill rank into consideration would be cool).
It already does this ... look at the Dresden Files ruleset. That will do pretty much all you're looking for already, apart from renaming stress tracks (which would involve a quick hack to the character_main.xml file). All I'm doing is updating the ruleset to CoreRPG, so that we get all the goodies from that, and trying to make it more flexible.


What extensions are you planning to support?
Probably: Spirit of the Century, Dresden Files, Bulldogs!, Age of Arthur.

chillybilly
March 26th, 2014, 13:29
Really looking forward to seeing it. My players are loving the FATE rules and a more robust and flexible ruleset will be awesome.

Valarian
March 26th, 2014, 13:39
How do you mean "more robust"? I'm not aware of any problems with the current (Dresden Files) ruleset. This is the latest Fate ruleset and the one that should be used until this newer ruleset is ready for use.

chillybilly
March 26th, 2014, 13:48
Maybe robust was a poor choice of words. I'm just looking forward to seeing a newer ruleset.

Never go in against a UKer, especially when death is on the line.

Valarian
March 26th, 2014, 14:01
Working on that iocane powder resistance :D

spacce1889
March 26th, 2014, 15:02
fyi fate has a bag of holding sell on non drm pdf's

http://www.bundleofholding.com/index/current

Valarian
March 26th, 2014, 17:08
fyi fate has a bag of holding sell on non drm pdf's
http://www.bundleofholding.com/index/current
Got all of them already :)

S Ferguson
March 26th, 2014, 17:22
It already does this ... look at the Dresden Files ruleset. That will do pretty much all you're looking for already, apart from renaming stress tracks (which would involve a quick hack to the character_main.xml file). All I'm doing is updating the ruleset to CoreRPG, so that we get all the goodies from that, and trying to make it more flexible.


Probably: Spirit of the Century, Dresden Files, Bulldogs!, Age of Arthur.

In the half year I've been using the Dresden files, I had *no* idea you could roll off the skills. Perhaps it could be made to conform to the newer sets and place an icon in the corner? It would help alleviate any further musings on this one.:) Could we also have an area for "Effects" on aspects; and what about Extras? A Gun with no ammo track (if that's how you play it - which is a reasonable thing to assume), would also require different types of Extras: Tracked, Aspect, Stunt or Skill or what have you.

And as a request, could you explain the Bulldogs! setting (in brief)? I'm taking that it's Sci-fy, but that's just from a previous post. And even though the license has run out with Cubicle 7, how about Starblazers as an addition (you got me to re-read it, getting in the way of *much* more important matters, like my work, and I'm hooked :p)?

Also, would it be possible to get new graphics for the ruleset? The d20 ones are looking worn, tawdry, and out-of-date. This is just a personal pet peeve.

Regards,
SF

Michael Hopcroft
March 26th, 2014, 22:19
The thing is that Fate games are coming out all the time, at the rate of two or three a month. They're like rabbits. Not to mention all the hacks like The Fate Freeport Companion, which I have mentioned earlier, and things like Venture City Stories (A sort of supers setting -- but not all that four-colory -- that was released this month from a Patreon project). Then there's Tianxia (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/126883/Tianxia-Blood-Silk--Jade), a new fate wuxia game (if you don't know what wuxia is I'm sure someone will be happy to tell you) and more coming out all the time. The Bundle is full of all sorts of stuff you might have previously overlooked.

The point is that Fate is The Big Thing right now. Whether it will prove to be a fad and there will be a Fate Bust in the near future is open to conjecture, but for now there's a lot of interest in the system and similar concepts (a new edition of the Fate-inspired four-color supers game Icons was just announced by Green Ronin). So if you build it, people will play.

S Ferguson
March 26th, 2014, 22:35
I Already have Venture City Stories, and the "supers" were detailed (for the most part) in the update. I also know what Wuxia is (being a fan of fly-by-wire action :)). I agree that there are a lot of systems coming out at the moment, but they all run off of the same "engine." The Generic FATE set I have in mind (if only pipe dreaming :p) would be able to handle anything you can throw at it. Extensions can handle special rules (they override everything first), so, say, "Diaspora" could have all the nitty-gritties added to the ruleset with a minimum amount of programming time involved. I'm basing this mostly on the CoreRPG standard, and also reflecting on the flexibility of the BRP system. Like FATE both are incredibly "hackable."

As for the Extras, they can be generic items, or locations - there's a finite list. Just have the item box give an appropriate dropdown and blank spots for Aspect, Stunts, Skills, etc. It wouldn't be that difficult, and would significantly add to the game. User defined skill lists are also possible, if your game has a particular skillset. The former is laid out in Castles and Crusades and the latter in Call of Cthulhu. The joys of the core is that you can merge items into the ruleset. I say take full advantage of this. It's fate :D.

Valarian
March 26th, 2014, 23:02
Could you explain the Bulldogs! setting (in brief)? I'm taking that it's Sci-fy, but that's just from a previous post.
Bulldogs! is a sci-fi Fate game based on the Dresden Files version of the game. It uses the Evil Hat style stress (tick only the one box). The characters play troubleshooters in a border / frontier territory. The flavour is a space opera / space cop sort of thing. (review: http://thefatearchives.blogspot.co.uk/2013/02/bulldogs-review.html)


Also, would it be possible to get new graphics for the ruleset? The d20 ones are looking worn, tawdry, and out-of-date. This is just a personal pet peeve.
Not from me I'm afraid. I can manage a minor customisation of the desktop and that's about it.

S Ferguson
March 26th, 2014, 23:40
I'll help! I'll make new icons if you mail me the new background. I'm a graphic artist. it's just a matter of what you want each one to look like (no characters please).

Valarian
March 27th, 2014, 09:21
Best thing would to be to make a skin for CoreRPG. That way it can be used in other places too. I colour shifted the base CoreRPG desktop to blend with the blue of the "Powered by Fate" graphic.

Blacky
March 27th, 2014, 10:10
For something as generic as Fate, it's hard to make graphics other than very bland ones.

With a specific area in mind (urban fantasy like Dresden Files, SotC-like, hard space opera like Diaspora, etc.) it's much easier to do something in the right theme.

S Ferguson
March 27th, 2014, 18:26
For something as generic as Fate, it's hard to make graphics other than very bland ones.

With a specific area in mind (urban fantasy like Dresden Files, SotC-like, hard space opera like Diaspora, etc.) it's much easier to do something in the right theme.

Heck we can make them all! No seriously, I was thinking of "generic" icons. A concept like "character" or "notes" or even "encounter" (or anything on the sidebar for that matter) are fairly universal concepts. I'll see about making a skin for the system. I'd like a copy of the background graphic that is in use, though. It makes things a lot easier.

Regards,
SF

Valarian
March 27th, 2014, 19:34
It really is just the CoreRPG graphic. I think the best approach would be to create a "pulp", "Sci-fi", "Western", etc. CoreRPG theme. This could then be used for other systems / games. It may even be a commercial option if you talk to John & Doug.

S Ferguson
March 27th, 2014, 19:58
It really is just the CoreRPG graphic. I think the best approach would be to create a "pulp", "Sci-fi", "Western", etc. CoreRPG theme. This could then be used for other systems / games. It may even be a commercial option if you talk to John & Doug.

I think to be a viable commercial product that the ruleset has to be commercial as well. I'll do it for the community, though. The only problem I see is if the FATE logo is copyright. I'll go through the PDFs legalize when I get a chance.

Cheers,
SF

Valarian
March 27th, 2014, 20:54
A full CoreRPG theme would be a viable commercial product. The only customisation needed for the individual community rulesets would then be a desktop. No logos or anything involved. Just graphics for the frames, buttons, etc.

As for the Fate logo, you're able to use the "Powered by Fate" logo as long as the proper attribution is given.

S Ferguson
March 27th, 2014, 21:00
Yep. The "Powered by FATE" is open content; the logos on the other hand are trademarked. I'm sure though if it's for non-profit, and I ask nicely, I might even be able to use the "Evil Hat" icon. :)

tseliger
March 29th, 2014, 11:25
Just read about FATE and burning to try it in an online session. Valarian, maybe you could create a Github repository with your new generic FATE ruleset? That way interested people could participate, beta test and help.

What you think about going "open source" with it?

Blacky
March 29th, 2014, 11:50
Fate Core is CC-BY (apart from the logo and the Fate font, and they are both minors and easily redone) which is incredibly open. If the ruleset could be the same, that would be great.

Blacky
March 29th, 2014, 11:52
Yep. The "Powered by FATE" is open content; the logos on the other hand are trademarked. I'm sure though if it's for non-profit, and I ask nicely, I might even be able to use the "Evil Hat" icon. :)
You don't need either. You can use both the logo and the font (even if it's for profit) as long as you mention the trademark and both copyrights. See http://www.faterpg.com/licensing/ for more details.

S Ferguson
March 29th, 2014, 19:24
You don't need either. You can use both the logo and the font (even if it's for profit) as long as you mention the trademark and both copyrights. See http://www.faterpg.com/licensing/ for more details.

Keen!

Cheers,
SF

S Ferguson
March 30th, 2014, 20:01
You don't need either. You can use both the logo and the font (even if it's for profit) as long as you mention the trademark and both copyrights. See http://www.faterpg.com/licensing/ for more details.

Just checked out the link further (I always do a cursory read and then come back to it when my faculties are less clouded), and the only things that are free to use (under the OGL or the CC-CY) are the "Powered by FATE" icon, and the FATE font (both of which I downloaded, with the appropriate bylines (which I cut-n-pasted into a text document). The FATE Logo (just "FATE") and the Evil Hat logos are not for use by the general public. They're considered "creator content" under the OGL and a similar condition under the Creative Commons Act. However I'll e-mail Evil Hat and see if the logos can be incorporated into background designs. otherwise, "Powered by FATE" it is.

Valarian
March 30th, 2014, 20:19
They don't want other people's content being associated / mistaken for their's. I think the licensing is fairly clear. However, I wouldn't make a graphics theme specific to Fate. It would be far more useful to have generic "genre" themes available to work with, that could be used with Fate Core, or any other ruleset based on the CoreRPG.

S Ferguson
March 31st, 2014, 01:34
Back to the topic at hand. Are you planning on including the SRD rules in the FATE ruleset? That would be a nice addition.

Valarian
March 31st, 2014, 06:46
Yes

Blacky
March 31st, 2014, 10:56
I thought you were talking about the Powered by logo. As Valarian said, the other logos stay with Evil Hat :)

chillybilly
March 31st, 2014, 13:19
So when is this coming out (Beta version or full)?

Valarian
March 31st, 2014, 15:00
When I've got it in to a state where there's the minimum of a completed character sheet. 2nd tab being worked on, plus the library. 2nd tab replaces the core inventory with an area for stunts/powers, weapons, armour, other gear.

Valarian
March 31st, 2014, 15:01
In the meantime, use the Dresden Files ruleset. That's only one iteration of the Fate engine behind the Fate Core.

S Ferguson
March 31st, 2014, 22:12
In the meantime, use the Dresden Files ruleset. That's only one iteration of the Fate engine behind the Fate Core.

Only one? What happened to all the others? :)

Cheers,
SF

Valarian
March 31st, 2014, 22:36
Well there's a Spirit of the Century extension in there. That's one back from that. For Fate 2 and Fudge, you may have to look elsewhere.

S Ferguson
March 31st, 2014, 23:50
Well there's a Spirit of the Century extension in there. That's one back from that. For Fate 2 and Fudge, you may have to look elsewhere.

Oh, but I *loved* the FUDGE edition of FATE 2! Still in my archive after all these years! :D The only thing that I actually think they retained from FUDGE was the Ladder, FATE dice, and character phases.

SoTC would definitely fit, being the Pulp themed monster it is , and the first edition of the modern FATE Core (incidentally, I recently ran Dinocalypse: Hell Comes to Hollywood, and if the interest remains, I'll run Dinocalypse Now! and Beyond Dinocalypse - they're a riot). Just had to swap out the graphics of the Dresden Files :p, to make it more "pulpy." Eager to hear of more progress.

Regards,
SF

Edit: Hero Labs has just released the FATE Core, Accelerated, and SoTC (which it's had for a while) under version 5.0. It's free to use for all owners of HL.

Valarian
April 3rd, 2014, 19:28
I've completed the character sheet for Fate Core and, in an hour and a half, customised the ruleset with an Age of Arthur extension. Starting on the library. The CoreRPG NPC sheet suffices, but will be changed. The combat tracker will be after the library. I'll package up the ruleset and put that and the extension in the CoreRPG folder (community ruleset folder link below).

Photos of progress here (https://plus.google.com/photos/112452490185104873918/albums/5472547499783222833)

chillybilly
April 3rd, 2014, 21:04
Very excited to see it. In case it's not been said yet, a lot of us are very thankful for your hard work on this.

Valarian
April 3rd, 2014, 21:30
Currently, the older Dresden Files ruleset ("Fate 3.5" as it were) is still more functional that the Fate Core (Fate 4.0) ruleset. While I continue with development, it may be best to use that one for live/longer-term games. Especially if you use the combat tracker a lot.

S Ferguson
April 4th, 2014, 00:33
Currently, the older Dresden Files ruleset ("Fate 3.5" as it were) is still more functional that the Fate Core (Fate 4.0) ruleset. While I continue with development, it may be best to use that one for live/longer-term games. Especially if you use the combat tracker a lot.

If you don't tend to use the combat tracker (which I always thought was against the spirit of the conflicts using aspect invocations and compels) is it beta-releasable? I'd like to see how the extensions are built for the new system, so I can start working on my own. Pretty please? :)

Cheers,
SF

Trenloe
April 4th, 2014, 01:20
... is it beta-releasable? I'd like to see how the extensions are built for the new system, so I can start working on my own. Pretty please? :)


I'll package up the ruleset and put that and the extension in the CoreRPG folder (community ruleset folder link below).
Use the "Valarian's Fantasy Grounds Rulesets" link in his footer.

S Ferguson
April 4th, 2014, 02:37
I tried that already and keep getting an error message each time I click on the .pak or the .ext. The PDF turns up fine though. Any tricks I should know about?

Cheers,
SF

Edit: I got it to work. I just hadn't had the Google drive set up on my end. And it's looking great. I can't wait for the pyramid implementation. Keep up the good work.:)

Valarian
April 4th, 2014, 06:29
The Google viewer doesn't recognise the extensions. You need to download them.

The "pyramid" implementation is the list ordered by the skill rating. That is the default. To order by skill label only, the hack is required. That is what I want to makecan option. The option will order by rating or label.

chillybilly
April 4th, 2014, 12:48
DL'd it and LOVE it! The character sheet is fantastic (any chance we can get extreme consequences on it?). I will be using this ruleset for sure.

A minor edit to this post. I had to change the skills because we are using Nova Praxis and THANK YOU for including how to change the skills in the pak file in a very simple and easy to understand way. You made that ridiculously easy for me. Thanks again!

S Ferguson
April 4th, 2014, 16:46
The Google viewer doesn't recognise the extensions. You need to download them.

The "pyramid" implementation is the list ordered by the skill rating. That is the default. To order by skill label only, the hack is required. That is what I want to makecan option. The option will order by rating or label.

Ahhhh. There's a method to your madness, yet. Keep up the +6 work!

Valarian
April 4th, 2014, 17:35
If you copy the Age of Arthur extension, customising the skills and lay out should be fairly easy. The extreme consequence I left out as it becomes a permanent aspect.

S Ferguson
April 4th, 2014, 17:46
If you copy the Age of Arthur extension, customising the skills and lay out should be fairly easy. The extreme consequence I left out as it becomes a permanent aspect.

Incidentally, is there going to be a spot for extras (essentially just tweaking the "gear" on the character sheet and NPCs). If not, could it be added to your overwhelming request list?

EDIT: Also, is it possible to have the "party sheet" be transformed into a more appropriate FATE GM's tool for quick access to character information? Keeping track of 3-4 players isn't too difficult with the character sheets, but since the tool is there....

Also, how are you determining "initiative" for the Combat tracker I know that in FATE Accelerated there is the "quickness" stat that basically governs initiative order; but in FATE Core it's a game in itself using the four actions and invokes and compels, which lends itself more to narrative combat. Could I get some clarification on this? The CT might be more of a hindrance during play, if you consider that zones and the means to a resolution of a conflict are abstract concepts.

Valarian
April 4th, 2014, 19:18
Initiative is based on various skills - usually some variant of Awareness / Notice. The more observant go first. Combat is abstract, but there's still order of action to consider and keeping track of aspects (i.e. effects) in combat for maneuvers, etc.

Extras are what the Notepad is for. Add it as a note, detailing the item / ship / whatever. Then drag the note to the character sheet.

Plans for the party sheet is a shared space for noting aspects for the setting, scene.

S Ferguson
April 4th, 2014, 20:12
OK. I have the notes being dragged to the Notepad fine, but the text seems to be a bit truncated given the amount of space available. Billy the Kid's Colt .45 comes up as Billy the Kid's Colt .4 in the notepad (if the prerequisite for having the item is finding it). Perhaps widening it and placing languages above the "Notes" bar might be an idea (I don't know of a game where there isn't a lingua franca that all characters speak - like English in Star Trek or "Common" in most fantasy games - that is, unless the scene/game requires lack of communication as a detrimental aspect. On this note, perhaps you could incorporate a template as they appear in the "Extras" chapter in the FATE Core system. I see ranged weapons (which would logically contain an ammo/energy/etc. track, and a stress track if delicate) as being something that might be helpful to ease play.

I like that idea for the party sheet. The only problem I can foresee is that since a lot of aspects are beyond character knowledge (to be discovered in their escapades later in the session/scenario/campaign, for example). I love the idea of sharing in FATE, after all, that's part of the allure of the game, but it's still an RPG with a structure, even if it's on the fly, at its heart. Some things just can't be shared (GM's notes dragged to the party sheet?).

Perhaps an option for "approaches" (as in FATE Accelerated or similar rules from the FATE System Toolkit) would be possible. That way, initiative can be scored on Quickness or Carefulness. figuring out who goes first, then letting the mooks go on the highest advantaged PC, then the next player, for example. This option would alleviate the GM's job determining what I often refer to as FATE combat: Ask everyone what they want to do and then doggedly determine who goes first from there. Some of the rules in the Toolkit could be incorporated as well (professions, as a prime example). Things to think about.

Cheers,
SF

Blacky
April 7th, 2014, 00:58
Download doesn't work (click, nothing happens; yet it did a few weeks-months back). The joy of using external hosting…

S Ferguson
April 7th, 2014, 01:09
Download doesn't work (click, nothing happens; yet it did a few weeks-months back). The joy of using external hosting…

I found that if you navigate to the page, via the link below, then navigate to CoreRPG; Click list view (the little bars in the upper right); then click open in drive; it allows you to place a checkmark beside each file and will download both files in a zipped format. This is assuming you have a Google account, mind you. In which case click on share first.

Cheers,
SF

Blacky
April 7th, 2014, 01:28
I certainly won't download anything and sharing it with Google or any Google account. They know what what I ate last week, they don't need to know if I scratched my nose too.

Trenloe
April 7th, 2014, 01:58
I certainly won't download anything and sharing it with Google or any Google account. They know what what I ate last week, they don't need to know if I scratched my nose too.
I guess it's your loss then.

S Ferguson
April 7th, 2014, 02:34
I was thinking that another neat addition, or option, to the system would be to have contests as part of some component in the system. Contests could be represented by special stress tracks built into, say, one of the party sheet tabs and either stress points (or if you're really ambitious, ticks) could dictate the current result of the conflict. I mention this only because its rater difficult to draw "ticks" manually, in another format. It's an idea, regardless.

S Ferguson
April 19th, 2014, 19:58
So how fares the battle with the CT and the rest of the system?

Regards,
SF

P.S. BTW you got me hooked on Bulldogs! (I never was much of a Starblazer fan, as I'm not familiar with the comic it's based on, ditto with LoA). The Sci-Fi that Kicks @$$! is definitely a looser game than Diaspora, but doesn't lessen my appreciation of that game (and mini-games), it's just that Bulldogs! and FATE Core are a match made in heaven for fast, romping sci-fi action. It even jives well with FAE. Thanks for the suggestions!

Valarian
April 19th, 2014, 22:15
Haven't progressed any further.

S Ferguson
April 20th, 2014, 01:02
Need help doing anything?

Cheers,
SF

Valarian
April 20th, 2014, 12:46
Could look at starting a Bulldogs! extension and reference :)

S Ferguson
April 20th, 2014, 16:17
That legal? I'd hate to have a "cease and desist" flung at me. :) Otherwise glad to.

Valarian
April 20th, 2014, 18:46
As legal as anything else we're doing. The Open License Agreement will let you know what you can use and what you can't. Use the Age of Arthur extension as a guide. For politeness, you could get the blessing of the publisher before posting.

S Ferguson
April 20th, 2014, 19:22
The Age of Arthur at least has Skein, an SRD. With Bulldogs! the FATE rules are the SRD. taking out all the flavor.:p I shot Galileo Games an e-mail regardless to ask for a not-for-profit use of the rules in a limited community

Regards,
SF

Valarian
April 20th, 2014, 19:46
Usually it will be things such as the Fate basics (in the fate Core SRD anyway), the skill list, the list of stunts. Things like that should be okay under the OGL. Check the product identity section. They may be okay stripping the races down to the name and aspects.

S Ferguson
April 20th, 2014, 19:58
Hmmm...
PRODUCT IDENTITY

All artwork, logos, symbols, designs, depictions, illustrations, maps and cartography, likenesses, and other graphics, unless specifically identified as Open Game Content, as well as rules-related elements of the proprietary setting, such as aspects and species abilities associated with setting elements, are to be considered Product Identity and subject to copyright

Doesn't leave much....

S Ferguson
April 20th, 2014, 21:16
Good News! Got word back from Brennon Taylor. He gives us permission to use the full Bulldogs! ruleset. Woot!:D Now your going to have to give your all in finishing the ruleset so we can go kicking @$$ across the galaxy!:) I've already started making the module for "Fate Core." Of course the ruleset is going to need library functionality first....

Regards.
SF

neuralnoise
April 21st, 2014, 14:48
Is there any work about using the party sheet for the aspects created by players and situation/campaign aspects ?

Regards,
Neuralnoise.

Valarian
April 21st, 2014, 16:14
Character sheet only so far. For a fully functional ruleset, you still need the Dresden Files version (Fate 3.5 as opposed to Fate Core).

S Ferguson
April 21st, 2014, 22:07
Just a question. When you implement the "library modules" for the FATE Core ruleset, will you be sticking to the standard CoreRPG format for modules? I'm slowing building Bulldogs! up and have a need to know issue.

Regards.
SF

ddavison
May 3rd, 2014, 15:28
Guys, this looks great. Ping me at [email protected] if you'd be interested in making this an official ruleset.

My first thoughts would be that making the ruleset into another included ruleset that comes with Fantasy Grounds would be the best route and then you could buy the supporting libraries through the store. If there are basic OGL type libraries that could be included and then more fully featured ones available for purchase, that would sound like a good compromise. I'd have to work with the guys at Evil Hat, but I imagine it wouldn't be a problem. The various spin-offs could then be extensions over top of the base ruleset.

I'll hold off reaching out to Evil Hat until I hear back from Valarian. It's fine if you'd rather continue on as a community ruleset exclusively. The expectations become a little higher with an official ruleset, but the limitations become less. It looks like you've got an excellent start.

S Ferguson
May 3rd, 2014, 20:33
There shouldn't be a problem from Evil Hat. They're nice guys and FATE Core and Spirit of the Century are already included in products like Hero Labs pro bono.

Valarian
May 3rd, 2014, 21:28
Thanks Doug. Sent an email through to you.

neuralnoise
May 4th, 2014, 17:17
Is there a way to allow player for create modifiers in the Modifiers window ( +/- icon) ?

S Ferguson
May 4th, 2014, 17:48
Is there a way to allow player for create modifiers in the Modifiers window ( +/- icon) ?

Click on the brown button at the bottom of the modifier screen and a green "+" button will appear. Add modifiers at will. Hit the brown button again to exit editing mode.

neuralnoise
May 4th, 2014, 18:03
Click on the brown button at the bottom of the modifier screen and a green "+" button will appear. Add modifiers at will. Hit the brown button again to exit editing mode.
Thx, I known that trick ;) But players can't add modifiers, just the GM. There isn't brown button or in the right click HUD for them. And there isn't option for that in the Option window to allow players. So the question is still open.

S Ferguson
May 4th, 2014, 18:52
Thx, I known that trick ;) But players can't add modifiers, just the GM. There isn't brown button or in the right click HUD for them. And there isn't option for that in the Option window to allow players. So the question is still open.

The GM is the only one able to add modifiers. Players don't have permission to do this.:p I can't for the life of me, being a GM, *think* of a reason for letting the players enter their own modifiers (which change depending on what "brand" of FATE you use) The player's can access modifiers that have been added in, but that's the state of the CoreRPG. I can't think of a ruleset offhand in which the player *can* add modifiers, being the GM-oriented tool it is. It's similar to the Calendar. GM tool only.

Trenloe
May 4th, 2014, 18:59
Is there a way to allow player for create modifiers in the Modifiers window ( +/- icon) ?
This is base Fantasy Grounds functionality, and is coded into the CoreRPG ruleset, not the Fate Core ruleset that is built on top of CoreRPG. Basically, Fantasy Grounds usually allows either a single player to modify something or the GM only. The option for players to add modifiers has not been programmed into the modifier window - I would imagine due to the added complexity of coding for player access and modification specific to a single player (i.e. the player who created the modification entry).

If players want to have frequently used modifiers that are specific to an individual PC they can create them using the /mod # <description> chat command and drag the entries (before pressing enter) to the hotkeys along the bottom of the screen. Then a single click on the hotkey would add the modifier to the modifier stack.

http://www.fantasygrounds.com/wiki/index.php/Modifier_Stack

Trenloe
May 4th, 2014, 19:13
I can't for the life of me, being a GM, *think* of a reason for letting the players enter their own modifiers
Players need PC specific modifiers all of the time. Having a few modifiers that a player can quickly click on to add frequently used modifiers (with their labels) is a common feature in some of my games - especially for rulesets where automated effects aren't present.


(which change depending on what "brand" of FATE you use)
Modifiers are specific to an FG campaign, which (in the majority of cases) would be for a specific brand of FATE. So I don't see an issue at all with players having modifiers specific to their PCs within the FG campaign.


It's similar to the Calendar. GM tool only.
I have to disagree with this statement. Modifiers are a very useful feature for both players and GMs - the modifier list is not just a GM only tool, it is very much a tool for both players and GMs. I understand why players don't have add/modify access to the modifier list due to the complexity of coding that in FG. But saying that it is a GM only tool because of how it could be used within a game is, IMHO, not a valid statement for a lot of FG games - it might be a valid statement for your games, though. ;)

Valarian
May 4th, 2014, 19:58
If players want to have frequently used modifiers that are specific to an individual PC they can create them using the /mod # <description> chat command and drag the entries (before pressing enter) to the hotkeys along the bottom of the screen. Then a single click on the hotkey would add the modifier to the modifier stack.
Nice tip. I'd go with this for adding Player modifiers. The modifier box can be used to build up a library of common modifiers though, so if there's one that a few players are using, pester the GM to add it to the list.

S Ferguson
May 4th, 2014, 20:15
Most of the games I play have no "generic" PC modifiers that affect play, that can't be handled otherwise, especially FATE Core (which I assumed this was directed at). It definitely would be handy in a skeleton ruleset, I'll admit; but stunts, and invoking (or compelling) an aspect or spending a FATE point, for a modifier, is more "directed" toward the modifier box, rather than adding a specific modifier for it. So yes, in my games, specifically, here, FATE, it's a valid statement.:). I was just suggesting (too succinctly, I suppose) that any player modifiers should be input by the GM at the time of it's occurrence in the game (I hope players aren't adverse to chatting to the GM, or adding a modifier for a player I hope :D). I think the modifier box is FATE's strongpoint here. Note that I'm *only* discussing FATE here, not other systems. FATE 3.5 (and 3.0) can be updated to the latest rules by following a two page "Veteran's guide" in the back of the book if they like. The rules for modifiers hasn't changed much from the 2.0 FUDGE Edition, and FUDGE was "modifier lite," like lite beer.:p

Valarian
May 4th, 2014, 20:41
There's an argument for a drag/drop to the modifier box for aspects (+2) and consequences (their value).

S Ferguson
May 4th, 2014, 21:19
There's an argument for a drag/drop to the modifier box for aspects (+2) and consequences (their value).

True. That would be a good case. But aspects granting modifiers and compelled consequences only last the scene (usually), the FATE point was spent (or gained) and this would be better handled in a scene aspect fashion, n'est pas? The consequence or aspect lasts the scene so you have a scene aspect available to everyone in the scene. If you, say got the consequence "I'd Trip Over My Own Feet" (-2) to all Athletics maneuvers, caused by say, a loud noise, like a flashbang grenade, players could also be able to compel these aspects, as well.

ddavison
May 6th, 2014, 20:42
I discussed this with Fred Hicks @ Evil Hat Productions, LLC and we have two routes we can go.

1. He signed a contract to allow us to produce an official version of Fate Core with full artwork and logo support under a royalty agreement.
2. He also gave us permission to freely publish a Powered by Fate Core version which still contains all the content which is open (basically all of it) and just not the logos or artwork.

I kind of like #1 with the Pay-what-you-like method where the price is $5 and if people want to pay more they can change the quantity.

Sound off on your preferences. If Valarian and/or SFerguson are doing most of the work, I'll lean heavily towards what they say of course.

-Doug

Aristotle
May 8th, 2014, 15:33
A free version would be cool, but I'd also be more than good with paying for a supported/official version. Fate is a game, and Evil Hat is a game company, worth supporting IMO.

I'd want a rule system that sticks to the core rules, but with options for any optional rules with mechanical requirements offered in the book(s). I'd totally use this to run Fate games. I'd totally run almost all of my campaigns using Fate.

Valarian
May 9th, 2014, 08:46
I think the consensus is a Fate Core SRD compatible ruleset (Powered by Fate & SRD licensing) for distribution with the Fantasy Grounds product, like the current 3.5e, 4e, and Numenéra rulesets. There will then be a commercial library module, which will include the stuff that can't be published freely (such as the wonderful art from the books). Other extension type products on top of this are likely to be charged (depending on licensing arrangements).

tseliger
June 6th, 2014, 22:37
Many thanks for the ruleset Valarian! I am in the process of doing a Fate hack for my Thieves' World campaign and just created an extension module on top of your Fate Core ruleset to customize skill list, appearance and NPC stats. Working great so far!

Valarian
July 6th, 2014, 20:49
The Fate Core ruleset (version 1.1) now has some modifications for the NPC Sheet. The module progresses, slowly. Up to chapter 3 in the SRD. This will be released with the finished ruleset in whichever update it ends up in. Now I've got to work out how the combat tracker works in CoreRPG. I'd only just got to grips with the Foundation Core one.

S Ferguson
July 6th, 2014, 23:32
I like the improvements! Don't worry about the combat tracker. It's not a difficult beast to conquer.

Cheers,
SF

tseliger
July 8th, 2014, 09:37
Thanks for the work! I still think that putting this under version control on GitHub would be a good idea. I am already tracking your changes locally with git, so it is easier to adapt my campaign after changes in the Fate Core ruleset.

You can find my Thieves' World extension on https://github.com/neovatar/FateCore-ThievesWorld, it requires your ruleset to run. I decided to use a modified version (removed refresh/fate point frame) of your character sheet for the NPCs.

Adding my own skill list with data_common.lua worked great.

Valarian
August 28th, 2014, 18:50
The Fate Core ruleset has now got a basic Combat Tracker. There is a problem. The dynamic drop for the sections doesn't currently work correctly for having the stress track (sword icon) and the effects (person icon) open at the same time. For some reason, the stress track section seems to be stuck at a height of 20, instead of the value I'm trying to give it. Not worked out why yet, as everything looks okay. The functionality works though, as long as you only open the stress tracks or effects sections individually and not together. A fixed version will wind it's way out as soon as I can work out what the problem is - unless some kind soul can let me in on what I'm doing wrong there.

Anyway, the ruleset is at the stage where I need to start talking to Doug and MoonWizard about integrating it with the installer. Now on to finishing up the library.

Trenloe
August 28th, 2014, 18:53
Anyway, the ruleset is at the stage where I need to start talking to Doug and MoonWizard about integrating it with the installer. Now on to finishing up the library.
Hurray! :)

ddavison
August 28th, 2014, 18:59
Sounds promising. I've put a bug in MoonWizard's ear about the issue you are having. We are both heads down on some things at the moment, but hopefully one or the other of us can chime in to help if you wanted to shoot us over the current work in progress.

Valarian
August 28th, 2014, 21:20
The current .pak file is in the rulesets folder in the signature. Still working on the library module. As soon as the bug in the combat tracker is fixed, I can't see why it can't be integrated in to the updates at your convenience.

damned
August 29th, 2014, 01:09
Fantastic! That would be a great addition.

Valarian
September 30th, 2014, 10:55
I've worked around the problem with the combat tracker by separating the mental and physical stress tracks in the tracker. The ruleset is pretty much there, with the SRD library up to chapter 7. Only 4 more chapters to go, with all the mechanics in the SRD done already. The remaining chapters are the GM advice and information. Nearly there.

damned
September 30th, 2014, 13:31
This is fantastic - looking forward to it Valarian.

Blacky
November 25th, 2014, 00:45
A few comments & ideas on the ruleset, specifically the Character Sheet :



Maybe a toggle button between alphabet sorting and level sorting for the skills? It's hard to find a specific skill when you don't know the sheet right now (like for a pregenerated character for a one shot, or if the GM looks for something in a PC sheet, etc.)
There's no space for Boost and Situation Aspects
I did not see anything for tracking free Invokes, which is too bad since it's the biggest hurdle/crunching there is in Fate Core.
There's no space to easily add one or two new stress tracks for a hack, which is a common Fate hack.
The Fate Points box takes a lot of pixel real estate, and has a lot of empty space in it. Also, is the Skill Cap and the Power level really, really needed here on the front page?
The Consequences box on the other hand has no space for common hacks like Conditions.
On the second tab however, there's ton of space for Stunts. But each stunt is on one line, so if a player was to include a small description of reminder of what that stunt do, it's quite hard to read. Maybe display all of it? Or have a button to expand it?
Maybe it's because I tried as a GM, but I did not see any Modifier from Invoking an Aspect, or using a stunt, or anything like that.
Nor did I manage to be able to drag Aspects around to tag or use for Boost or Situation Aspects.
When a GM double click on a PC Aspect the chat says it compels "x", it doesn't say who is compelled.
As a player If I drag a Skill unto the dice tower, it doesn't work. Shouldn't it make a secret roll of said skill?
Same for Aspects, without the roll of course.
When a Skill Roll is made, I don't think the result is quite clear. There's in big bold black the tallied score added to the roll, but with no label. And there's the final score of the skill test, but in light gray with no label. Maybe the final score (the only one that really matter) could be put front and center, and the result linked to The Ladder (“+5 (Superb result)”)?
There's quite some boxes for Weapons and Armour, but I couldn't drag an Item into either.


One quick thing outside the character sheet, the Fudge dice is all the way there, instead of next to the Modifier stack.

Michael Hopcroft
November 26th, 2014, 00:46
I've been away from the topic for a while, but flawed or not I'm glad to see this out and official. The thing, of course, is that there a couple more "flavors" of Fate I would love to see covered -- the Freeport version (where the skills are based on D&D attributes) and the light Accelerated Edition version (which I suspect is what a lot of folks will actually be playing as things go on).

There are so many Fate flavors, of course, that GMs can (and will) easily take the smorgasbord approach. If they see several things they like in different iterations, they will grab them and meld them into something their own.

S Ferguson
November 26th, 2014, 16:23
Not to mention the use of the FATE toolkit, which allows FAE-like concept to be brought into the broader scope of things. I do agree with some of Blacky's comments, however, but it's a ruleset that can keep on giving (hopefully). It's the beautiful thing about the FATE system.

Cheers,
SF

Valarian
November 26th, 2014, 19:15
There's now a blank skills extension that blank out the default core skills and allow you to enter ones of your own. This can be used to do Fate Accelerated type games. I do plan on converting the SRD documents for the Toolkit and Fate Accelerated at some point.

The skills are in a data_common.lua file in the scripts folder. The majority of the other ruleset text is in the strings folder, with the exception of the condition cycler labels, which are in the campaign/record_char_listitem.xml file, in the char_consequence list item definition. I couldn't get the label and value to work from the text strings or as a default cycler.

There's an example of an extension to Fate Core in my rulesets folder (see the signature), where I've begun a community version for Age of Arthur. This has the alternate form of stress counting (marking each box off as you take damage like an ammo counter). I do plan on converting the Dresden Files ruleset to an extension of Fate Core at some stage, but this works also in its current form so it's not necessarily a top priority.

In time, I will get to improvements in the ruleset and I'll be taking these comments in to account when I do.

Blacky
November 26th, 2014, 21:36
Three big things that I found missing, were counting beans, keeping beans in check, and playing with beans.

More specifically :



Handling Free Invokes. That's the main bean counting done in Fate, and with a little perspective from the Toolkit or other Fate powered game it can easily get out of hand. And since it's counting, that's typically something where a computer is better suited than humans. I think it should be extremely fast (adding, removing, editing each under the second is a good goal imo), and hackable.
Handling Aspects, fast but with a lot of flexibility. I think the foundation for this is already in the Core ruleset code. One could view Aspects as Items. Some are public, some are private for one or more player (or just the GM). They can be moved around with the mouse, to be either copied or moved to something else (a PC sheet, an NPC sheet, a situation, a place, a group). It should probably tie in with the Handling of Free Invokes in some way.
Making Fate Points as fun and "playable" (in the sense of playing with tiny shiny real physical tinket) as they are on a real gaming table, face to face. That's probably a pipe dream for now, as it's outside the capabilities of ruleset (things like taunting a player with a shiny moving image of a FP token for a Compel, waiting for him to click on it, etc.). But still, putting it out there might get some smarter people to come up with ideas for that.


Discounting the third one, that's in my opinion the needed core of the Ruleset. To make a comparison, that's more important for Fate than handling Classes in D&D, or something along those lines. It's certainly a bigger job than just i18n strings or some details (even important ones) here and there, it's not as clean & cut than this. But if some work could be done toward those, I think it would benefit greatly a lot of people. Maybe some people with a bigger or better experience of Fate than me, especially various editions and strands and hacks than the basic Fate Core, could come up with some scenarios on how to handle those, some UI or other…

Valarian
November 26th, 2014, 21:43
Aspects during combat exchanges, social or physical, are effects. The scene and campaign aspects, I intend to tailor the party sheet towards those, but a shared note works as a workaround until then.

Blacky
November 26th, 2014, 22:26
Ah, something I forgot about the PC Sheet, is the Stress values. For newcomers, for some stunts, in case of hacks, or whatever, it could be quite useful to have the value of each stress slot (1, 2, 3, etc.).

Another one, from the NPC Sheet. The NPC rolls go into the Modifier stack, instead of generating a roll. If that's to stay, could the ruleset insert in the Modifier label the name of said NPC, so that the GM know that his first Shoot roll was from the orc and his second Shoot roll was from the guard or whatever?

Instead of having :

GM : RollName [dices]

could it be :

GM : NPC NpcName RollName [dices]

?

Only if generating (directly or via hotkey bar) from a NPC sheet, of course.

Mask_of_winter
November 27th, 2014, 01:10
Making Fate Points as fun and "playable" (in the sense of playing with tiny shiny real physical tinket) as they are on a real gaming table, face to face. That's probably a pipe dream for now, as it's outside the capabilities of ruleset (things like taunting a player with a shiny moving image of a FP token for a Compel, waiting for him to click on it, etc.). But still, putting it out there might get some smarter people to come up with ideas for that.




FG already has a tool for that: the Savage Worlds bennies handler tool. With minor alterations it could be made to do the "taunting" part of it or at least allow for a dialogue box to show in the chat window similar to the vote widget where you can accept or refuse a compel.

Blacky
November 27th, 2014, 02:04
Never played Savage World, but from what I could find through Google, this bennies handler (or destiny chits in Edges of the Empire) sound like a great idea Mask of Winter.

S Ferguson
November 27th, 2014, 15:39
Depends on whether you want the Bennies tool, which handles "poker chips" and mimics FATE's tokens quite well; or EoE's "up front" chits. I suppose that it depends on whether or not you want public vs. private token passing. Personally, IMO compels are best left as a narrative device. Just mentioning a compel is enough to whet players appetite. It's definitely something Valerian could look into on a ruleset update.


Cheers,
SF

Michael Hopcroft
November 27th, 2014, 18:28
There's now a blank skills extension that blank out the default core skills and allow you to enter ones of your own. This can be used to do Fate Accelerated type games. I do plan on converting the SRD documents for the Toolkit and Fate Accelerated at some point.

The skills are in a data_common.lua file in the scripts folder. The majority of the other ruleset text is in the strings folder, with the exception of the condition cycler labels, which are in the campaign/record_char_listitem.xml file, in the char_consequence list item definition. I couldn't get the label and value to work from the text strings or as a default cycler.

There's an example of an extension to Fate Core in my rulesets folder (see the signature), where I've begun a community version for Age of Arthur. This has the alternate form of stress counting (marking each box off as you take damage like an ammo counter). I do plan on converting the Dresden Files ruleset to an extension of Fate Core at some stage, but this works also in its current form so it's not necessarily a top priority.

In time, I will get to improvements in the ruleset and I'll be taking these comments in to account when I do.

Pardon my technical cluelessness, but can you make altered copies of the gameset in FG while leaving the original intact? This would strike me as an extremely useful ability for Fate games in particular. each fate game or setting has its own special rules (and I can easily imaging GMs picking and choosing them for their individual games) but you'd still want the base set in place as a template if nothing else. (I can't help but wonder if anyone actually uses Fate Core as written -- assuming, given the flexibility of the system, that a "standard" game even exists.)

By the way, will there ever be enough interest that Fate gets its own category on the BBS?

S Ferguson
November 27th, 2014, 18:52
Pardon my technical cluelessness, but can you make altered copies of the gameset in FG while leaving the original intact? This would strike me as an extremely useful ability for Fate games in particular. each fate game or setting has its own special rules (and I can easily imaging GMs picking and choosing them for their individual games) but you'd still want the base set in place as a template if nothing else. (I can't help but wonder if anyone actually uses Fate Core as written -- assuming, given the flexibility of the system, that a "standard" game even exists.)

By the way, will there ever be enough interest that Fate gets its own category on the BBS?

You can alter the base ruleset without altering the main rulesets through the use of extensions. They\re basically files that overwrite certain portions of the ruleset. I'm one of the few that uses FATE Core largely as written, but with a few hacks from the Toolkit and whatever setting rules exist. Otherwise it's straight FATE as written.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for it's own forum column though....

Cheers,
SF

Blacky
November 27th, 2014, 20:45
One can also create a child ruleset, basically automatically importing all of the Fate Core ruleset (they way it already import the CoreRPG ruleset), and only enter your modifications.

However, both have issues. A child ruleset might not be officially compatible with an Extension, and depending on the level of the child's coder an update to Fate Core might break it.

An Extension might have trouble with other Extensions, if both redraw an icon, which one is right? Or how to handle i18n?

I guess it's a matter of preference.

Blacky
November 27th, 2014, 20:55
I suppose that it depends on whether or not you want public vs. private token passing. Personally, IMO compels are best left as a narrative device.
Public vs private is an issue in every FG ruleset unfortunately. I tend to personally prefer to have as much as private as possible, I like rpg rules, they help me, but I don't want to continuously flaunt them in front of everyone at the table with rolls, display PC skill level and such to every player, etc.

Officially, Fate is much more open. In theory, every player could/should know the sheet of every other PC, even Aspects that their character don't know about this other player's character. On the other hand, not every Aspect is public.

As far as narrative device, I wasn't asking some something cold like “Compel yes/no” in text. Ideally (cf my first post about it) something that is a narrative tool, a way to convey the theatrics of a Fate Point hanged over the player head on a real-life gaming table.

In any cases, imho, the various little things (i18n, PC sheet, etc.) should come first, then the Aspects handling and Free Invokes. Those are much more important.

damned
November 27th, 2014, 21:04
Extension is the safest way to go if you want to continue to leverage off the base ruleset and automagically get the improvements that Valarian is making.

S Ferguson
November 28th, 2014, 01:23
Public vs private is an issue in every FG ruleset unfortunately. I tend to personally prefer to have as much as private as possible, I like rpg rules, they help me, but I don't want to continuously flaunt them in front of everyone at the table with rolls, display PC skill level and such to every player, etc.

Officially, Fate is much more open. In theory, every player could/should know the sheet of every other PC, even Aspects that their character don't know about this other player's character. On the other hand, not every Aspect is public.

As far as narrative device, I wasn't asking some something cold like “Compel yes/no” in text. Ideally (cf my first post about it) something that is a narrative tool, a way to convey the theatrics of a Fate Point hanged over the player head on a real-life gaming table.

In any cases, imho, the various little things (i18n, PC sheet, etc.) should come first, then the Aspects handling and Free Invokes. Those are much more important.

I agree with your prioritizing although the character sheet is fairly functional so I'd focus more on Aspects and Invokes (perhaps a "landscape" character sheet could be worked on in the future...)

I agree that FATE is fairly "open" as far as systems go (public gaming in fact!); and I wasn't insinuating a binary answer to your question. The Public vs. private reference was taken from the EoE (which as far as I know has open token trading) to private passing (like the bennies in SW) - I just think that there's no real way of dangling a carrot virtually without resorting to typing and even that is sometimes all too obvious (but see below).

I do however also believe that FATE is and always will be a character-driven set of rules that bears no impact on what the players know about each others characters - in fact character generation relies on this (the "aspects with everyone else's character tying them together as a group" gimmick). As the examples in the Core Rulebook show - knowing the aspects of another players character is almost essential to the proactive state of the game. In fact I can't think of a private aspect off hand, that would be written as an aspect. Has A Deep Dark Secret is enough for people to play with without revealing what the secret actually is; although it would most probably come out in play. It makes an excellent aspect though, and it keeps the essential information (the "secret") private.

But I digress. Digitally (in est in FG) there really isn't a fair middle ground between public and private. I'd make a simple suggestion of a hotkey whisper to each character in the game dealing with common compels (take your pick from the aspects) as a short-cut around this. I usually make open "voiced" compels: "Are you certain you want to do that?" The player responds "No I'm harboring a great secret so I can't show off too much in the bar." It's simple and keeps the players on their respective toes. I guess I use voice most often, rather than text, but the hotkey whispers help. It's how you would play it around the table (with "note-passing"). So it works for me. In a game where the number of aspects are high, this isn't the solution; but for standard FATE it's more than adequate depending on the number of players. It should be noted that in FATE is usually only run with 3-4 characters - I find after this number your bookkeeping goes through the roof. Some are very good at handling large parties. I'm not one of those people.:)

EDIT: I suppose it's the way you play the game.

Cheers,
SF

Blacky
November 28th, 2014, 02:01
Yup as I said in vanilla Fate Core, it's all very public. But Fate call for hacks, modifications, house rules, so to keep with the spirit of the game if some room can be made on that…

As for secret aspects, well technically it's not secret but "undiscovered yet". A new NPC, an unknown place, a just-met organization, etc. Sometime some of the aspects are obvious (he's in a wheelchair, the building was baldy burned recently) but some if not most of the time it's not (until discovered).

There's also all the yet-to-be-created aspects, boost, consequences.

I'm not talking about the dangling carrot (much better name) feature here anymore, but about the Aspect handling by the ruleset. But as I said, there's already some of that built in FG : npc/notes/images/etc can be shared or not, and items have the "partial knowledge (magic identification) code.

Blacky
November 28th, 2014, 07:30
I wrote that in this bug report (http://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?22625-Fate-Core-localization-and-files), but since it's not a healing matter but an improvement, I move it here:

Since this is Fate we're talking about, there's the matter of the rule data, dials and variables. I think we would all benefit from moving all dials, numbers and such to a specific fate_data.xml (or whatever) file, akin to the string process.

For example, a script called to display the Stress used for a Mild consequence would not output "-2" but would look for the consequence_mild_stress_value string in fate_data.xml. And so on.

By doing that (for example while parsing the code for hardcoded strings to move to the i18n process), you would greatly lower the entry barrier for modding, hacking, and creating new campaigns and house rules.

From the top of my head, this would include: consequences stress value, default number of stress box (for each track), once it's scripted the Ladder value of an Invoke and FP values of Invokes and Compels, the default level of skills (vanilla is 0 but -1 or -2 are common hacks)…

Michael Hopcroft
November 28th, 2014, 23:52
I wonder how one actually makes an extension (I imagine some heavy programming is involved). I would like to see these extensions, but stating that causes the underlying assumption that I wuld know how to make them and I don't.

Still, I could easily see myself wanting to play Freeport, Tianxia (over-the-top wuxia), day after Ragnarok, or (once I have a copy) Atomic Robo. I own several other flavors of Fate (the two Bundles of Holding were very helpful on that front) but those are the ones that stand out.

S Ferguson
November 29th, 2014, 03:15
Atomic Robo is awesome. You'll love it. Tianxia works lovely, Freeport I've never been fond of but you should also check out Mindjammers 2e if you enjoy transhuman sci-fi.

Cheers

Michael Hopcroft
November 29th, 2014, 04:25
The most interesting thing to borrow in Freeport (if you don't want an eldritch-piratey game) is using the D&D characteristics like FAE Approaches. It's very simplified, but would enable you to use some D&D stuff.

But not all of it. You wouldn't want to use that for bigger monsters -- dragons would be utterly unbeatable.

A way to do really extravagant, cinematic High Fantasy will be very nice for Fate. especially a character like Lina Inverse or Favaro Leone (the roguish bounty hunter of Rage of Bahamut, a new show you really should be watching). Fate is designed around things like that, but the really spectacular stuff would be lovely.

One thing I do know is that if I really need mecha I have all kinds of alternatives, which contradict each other.

Fate is such a toolkitty game that I have a hard time even imaging two different campaigns having essentially the same character creation rules.

S Ferguson
December 2nd, 2014, 16:24
There's a PDF titled Collectanea Creaturae on RPGNow, that brings high fantasy creatures into FATE gaming. It also gives conversion tips so you're never at a loss for a Myrmidon! Once you have FATE down to a science (if there could ever be such a travesty), you begin to see the similarities in character creation between different rules sets. The good thing about FATE is that it's a primarily additive system: the basics are always present and the rest is just icing on the cake.

The best thing to do with different styles (and "stats") of mecha is to capture the essence of it in Aspects. A stealth armored mecha could have "Hard to be detected." One that has improved targeting could have "Always hits it's target at least once." Missiles and Gun ammunition can be marked off in stress boxes, and any additions or subtractions to the vehicle can be made with Ladder adjustments such as Great Targeting, or Superb Agility. It's very similar in content to adjusting creatures above.

EDIT: A good resource for mecha conversion is the d20 Mecha Compendium Deluxe Edition (also available on RPGNow). If you can't find what you want to build there, It doesn't exist. Not only that, it gives you access to all of the Heavy Gears and room to build even more spectacular machines. Additionally the system it uses is similar to the Silhouette system where everything is described in "words" as opposed to stats (HP - or health in FATE - being the exception).

Hope this helps,
SF

Michael Hopcroft
December 4th, 2014, 00:01
Picked up Atomic Robo. haven't really looked through it yet, or read the comic, but I'm already thinking of game uses for Dr. Dinosaur.

I also paid for the playset today. I spent a lot more money today than I probably should have, and I'll be spending even more when I go to the movies tonight.

Getting back to FG, I wonder if people have already done a FAE extension.

S Ferguson
December 4th, 2014, 16:46
Don't forget that Dr. Dinosaur is devilishly insane and should not be handled lightly by new Tesladyne employees. I started a FAE extension, but was waiting for the finalized version of FATE Core. I then realized that the Toolkit had everything I needed to play in the FAE style. Who knows, I might get back to it (or not as the work piles up around me), but someone is more than welcome to beat me to the punch.:)

Valarian
December 4th, 2014, 18:39
For Fate Accelerated, for the moment, use the Blank Skills extension and add the 6 approaches as skills. I've not yet done an extension that puts the FAE approaches/skills in.

Mask_of_winter
December 5th, 2014, 01:45
There's a FAE ruleset out there.

Blacky
December 15th, 2014, 14:12
Been working on a new campaign, and wondering is there's hope to see the string issue resolved before January?

Valarian
December 15th, 2014, 15:41
What string issue?

Blacky
December 15th, 2014, 15:44
Mainly all the hardcoded English words in the code, that aren't in the string files.

Valarian
December 15th, 2014, 16:12
I've use textres where I can (sheet text/labels). The rest is in datacommon.lua (skills list) and the label cycler (conditions).

Michael Hopcroft
January 1st, 2015, 04:44
I didn't pull the trigger on it, but apparently there is now an Achtung! Cthulhu setting book for Fate. How well the Mythos and cinematic meet is open to conjecture, but I can see people trying it.

S Ferguson
January 15th, 2015, 16:56
The Achtung! Cthulhu set for FATE is a conversion of the game line for Savage Worlds and Call of Cthulhu. It's actually a fairly amazing product, given that FATE usually doesn't usually deal with cosmic horror. It takes place during the WWII and makes characters members of the resistance against the Nazi machine that wants to bring about the rise of the Old Ones. It deals with fear and sanity brilliantly (a huge leap in FATE IMO). Unfortunately, most of the supplements out there for it are statted for Savage Worlds and Call of Cthulhu, so a bit of work has to go into conversion of artifacts and NPCs, however, a lot of the material is strictly textual in nature so it's easier to use off the cuff. If you can picture Indiana Jones foiling Nazi plans to take over the cosmos (like in Raiders of the Lost Ark but with a lot more surreal horror), you've got a good idea of how the game is and plays.

Cheers,
SF